What named HQ would you kill?

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**Martel732**

Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.

**Crazyterran**

Martel732 wrote:
Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.

You mean that wolf wolfborn, under the command of the great wolf, isn't going to fight during the wolf times?

Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.

Their chapter master is both the most ferocious, unyielding warrior to grace the Imperium, but also the most compassionate for the little guy.

**Martel732**

Crazyterran wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.

You mean that wolf wolfborn, under the command of the great wolf, isn't going to fight during the wolf times?

Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.

Their chapter master is both the most ferocious, unyielding warrior to grace the Imperium, but also the most compassionate for the little guy.

Their navies are led by Honor Harrington. Now let me go give myself 30 lashes for typing that name.

**Crazyterran**

Martel732 wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.

You mean that wolf wolfborn, under the command of the great wolf, isn't going to fight during the wolf times?

Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.

Their chapter master is both the most ferocious, unyielding warrior to grace the Imperium, but also the most compassionate for the little guy.

Their navies are led by Honor Harrington. Now let me go give myself 30 lashes for typing that name.

I actually like the Honor Harrington books and character, but I suppose she does fit the bill for a Mary Sue quite a bit. Never really thought about it until now...

Though, to be fair, I like the space battles and technical stuff more than most, and while I'm team manticore, the haven characters have grown on me...

**Martel732**

Honor Harrington is the Mary Sue by which all other Mary Sues are judged. Dammit, 30 more lashes.

Weber is one of the worst authors I've ever read. Rob. S. Pierre. Really? Sounds like a GW writer, actually.

**Crazyterran**

Martel732 wrote:
Honor Harrington is the Mary Sue by which all other Mary Sues are judged. Dammit, 30 more lashes.

Weber is one of the worst authors I've ever read. Rob. S. Pierre. Really? Sounds like a GW writer, actually.

I still find the books enjoyable, even if some of it is as you say. Maybe it will be more of a guilty pleasure now...

**Martel732**

Crazyterran wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Honor Harrington is the Mary Sue by which all other Mary Sues are judged. Dammit, 30 more lashes.

Weber is one of the worst authors I've ever read. Rob. S. Pierre. Really? Sounds like a GW writer, actually.

I still find the books enjoyable, even if some of it is as you say. Maybe it will be more of a guilty pleasure now...

True that. I've just become very intolerant of sub-standard sci-fi after the Star Wars prequels. That's actually when I became intolerant of GW's crazy stupid fluff as well....

Why do the tanks look WWI ish? Just nevermind...

**Furyou Miko**

vipoid wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
A Mary Sue is a character who, no matter what their flaws are, those flaws just make them more lovable to every character they meet. They are good at everything, except that one thing that will never matter until it's their time to die beautifully and prove that they're 'too good for this sinful earth'.

I thought one of the traits of a Mary Sue was that they had no flaws?

Also, no bad decision they make will ever have negative consequences.

No, they can have flaws. Usually something along the lines of "low self-esteem so everyone pities her and is nice" or "self-harms to cope with the stress of being so wonderful", or the worst of all, 'is anorexic so she gets to be pretty AND looked after".

**Lord Corellia**

Martel732 wrote:
Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.

Whaaaat?! I love our basic kit, it's awesome!

**vipoid**

Furyou Miko wrote:

No, they can have flaws. Usually something along the lines of "low self-esteem so everyone pities her and is nice" or "self-harms to cope with the stress of being so wonderful", or the worst of all, 'is anorexic so she gets to be pretty AND looked after".

**Martel732**

Lord Corellia wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Space Wolf models still deserve the oven for 5th ed. My 2 cents.

Whaaaat?! I love our basic kit, it's awesome!

A melting grey hunter is a good grey hunter

**Lord Corellia**

Martel732 wrote:
A melting grey hunter is a good grey hunter

Don't be upset that our army is still (somewhat) viable!

**triplegrim**

Crazyterran wrote:

Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.

To be fair... The Space Wolves were originally the executioner chapter, that policed all the other forces of the imperium, killing other traitors. So who's gonna watch the watchmen, execute the executioners and wolf the wolfen?

**Guardsmen Bob**

For the Tyranids, I'd kill off Hive Tyrant. He's in just about every damn 'nids book, and it's just getting old.

**Crazyterran**

triplegrim wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:

Or the parts where the Space Wolves tell all Imperial authority, whether it is Guilliman and/or the High Lords, the Ecclesiarchy, or the Inquisition, to screw right off with no repercussions, even going so far as to kill some of their dudes? And by some I mean a lot, and then they keep doing it until they get their way, Which would get anyone else declared a traitor.

To be fair... The Space Wolves were originally the executioner chapter, that policed all the other forces of the imperium, killing other traitors. So who's gonna watch the watchmen, execute the executioners and wolf the wolfen?

They were the self proclaimed executioners, which doesn't hold diddle to the rest of the Imperium, especially in M41. The Minotaurs would be closer to that role than the Wolves ever were.

The Emperor is implied to end them after one legion, and they suddenly get up their own ass about how they are the executioners. That's a space wolf for you! Just like how they turn the Thousand Sons traitor, and claim it as a victory for the Imperium. :p

Unremembered Empire has a space wolf squad there to watch Guilliman, and when they imply that they would kill Guilliman if he does anything funny, Guilliman pretty much pats them on the head and chuckles at how full of themselves they are.

Right before they get horribly killed by a different Primarch.

**j31c3n**

Crazyterran wrote:
Unremembered Empire has a space wolf squad there to watch Guilliman, and when they imply that they would kill Guilliman if he does anything funny, Guilliman pretty much pats them on the head and chuckles at how full of themselves they are.

This is the first thing to ever make me want to read a Black Library book.

**triplegrim**

Crazyterran wrote:

They were the self proclaimed executioners, which doesn't hold diddle to the rest of the Imperium, especially in M41. The Minotaurs would be closer to that role than the Wolves ever were.
.

Ok, I thought the emperor had used them to destroy both the unnamed primarchs and their legions. Would love to see the emperor finally pass away and the different space marine chapter to form their own realms, with an imperial remnant still worshipping the E as a god. Would make sense in the way that SM chapters fights each others all the time.

**Martel732**

Lord Corellia wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
A melting grey hunter is a good grey hunter

Don't be upset that our army is still (somewhat) viable!

Sorry, spite is all BA have left. And we still owe you for 5th ed.

**MiG**

I wouldn't mind if they killed off a lot of those named characters that have been in 40K for several editions...

'Write an interesting BL story about it and refresh the codex', that would spark my interest again in the fluff.

**triplegrim**

Kill the Emperor!

Am I the only one who thinks that its wild that Magnus the Red, Perturabo and Fulgrim is still around?

Let them march on Terra and kill the emperor! Would renew the grimdark feel and raise Chaos' stake in the 40k universe.

**zgort**

Wyzilla wrote:

I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.

I may misunderstand what a Mary Sue is, I thought it was someone that was a "perfect" character. Somebody that is lacking...well...character. They always do the 'right thing,' don't make mistakes, never lose a fight, etc. That's how I see the DA special characters. They are all epic combatants...and that's about it. Where are the motivations/flaws/personal conflicts? That is what makes characters interesting. A blurb about their inexorable/meteoric rise to leadership is not what makes a good character.

EDIT: I am going off of the codex and the BRB only. I have not read any of the novels that include these characters

**vipoid**

In case anyone cares,I'm just going to leave this here:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

**BrianDavion**

thing is codex entry alone sometimes makes it hard to judge. because the 'dexes are useally written in a "why this army is awesome" fashion.

thus depending on which dex you read, the greatest chapter master among space marines is "Marinus Calgar, Dante, Logan Grimnar, etc"

and I for one hope GW never changes in that regard. because it reduces the fun. UM fans and Space Wolf fans should sit down and argue over who'd win,Calgar or Logan, and then they should sit down and have a terrific game of 40k to attempt to prove it!

**BobNT**

roflmajog wrote:
With Slaanesh being killed off in AoS it may end up happening in 40k too. Major change to the fluff there for eldar and chaos.

I could see Prince Yriel doing something super with the spear of twilight to save the Eldar and get rid of Slaanesh for good, but in doing so the cursed spear takes his life.
I have always found the spear's statline to be very underwhelming when compared to its fluff, so I wouldn't be too sad to see him go.
Also if Yriel dies it leaves a space for Iyanna Arienal to return as the named character for Iyanden, and I believe a named spiritseer would fit that craftworld better than a named autarch anyway.

I could also see Eldrad dying (for a second time after he mysteriously came back to life) performing the greatest piece of magic ever seen.

Yes to Yriel dying. Maybe he does this in battle and is then somehow either intombed in a WK, or his sacrifice awakens a bad ass Avatar that actually gets gak done!

Alternatively, how about Illic headshots a power Necron HQ but this has a weird side effect of awakening hundreds of tomb worlds simultaneously?

**Happyjew**

Here is a complete list of all potential "Mary Sues"

Lelith Hesperax
St. Celestine
Jain Zar

Pretty sure that's it. Any other female HQ's I missed?

**Wolfblade**

Happyjew wrote:
Here is a complete list of all potential "Mary Sues"

Lelith Hesperax
St. Celestine
Jain Zar

Pretty sure that's it. Any other female HQ's I missed?

Shadowsun

**zgort**

vipoid wrote:
In case anyone cares,I'm just going to leave this here:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

I care. Thank you. Very informative

**totalfailure**

niv-mizzet wrote:
FakeBritishPerson wrote:
Breton wrote:
Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.

People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.

Nope. Retconned apparently. No mention of him dying, and his name is on the list of current company captains in the 7e BA book. He is, however, probably the worst named character in the book, since they took away his ap2 hand and his sternguard ammo.

You must have missed that whole Tycho the Lost page, that was like, the very next page in the codex, that described his death in action during the third war for Armageddon, and his funeral rites. Tycho is dead. dead. dead. And no great loss.

Meanwhile, I'd like to see Sicarius bite it. If you've read the Space Marine Battles novel Fall of Damnos, he comes across as a careless, glory hungry, arrogant douche, who nearly gets himself and did get a lot of second company Ultramarines killed fighting the Necrons there.

**Wyzilla**

zgort wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:

I really am starting to wonder if anybody even remembers what an actual Mary Sue is, or if they all think it's simply an adjective to describe any characters they don't like.

I may misunderstand what a Mary Sue is, I thought it was someone that was a "perfect" character. Somebody that is lacking...well...character. They always do the 'right thing,' don't make mistakes, never lose a fight, etc. That's how I see the DA special characters. They are all epic combatants...and that's about it. Where are the motivations/flaws/personal conflicts? That is what makes characters interesting. A blurb about their inexorable/meteoric rise to leadership is not what makes a good character.

EDIT: I am going off of the codex and the BRB only. I have not read any of the novels that include these characters

**Ghazkuul**

I would kill Ghaz in a heart beat. Apparently the biggest baddest ork since the Emperor walked among the stars is a T5 W4 Ork Warboss with the incredibly ability to let meganobz run...once.....a game.

Ohh did i mention he doesn't have an invul except for 1 turn a game?

Could the orks please get some ridiculously OP character or hell just a halfway decent one that doesn't get killed by EVERY eldar character.