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generalgrog wrote: No I mean selling the hearts, livers, and lungs of the babies they kill for prophet.
Epic.
Also, this reminds me of a nice movie I saw.
I do not really understand people that put dead bodies into their mouth and then eat them, but well, apparently it allows people to stay young, so that is worth it, I guess.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
The point isn't the fact that it was an edited video with old news footage...the point was the casual , and cold nature that Dr. Hannibal Lector drinks her Chianti and eats here fava beans, while discussing selling parts of a human being.
The point isn't the fact that it was an edited video with old news footage...the point was the casual , and cold nature that Dr. Hannibal Lector drinks her Chianti and eats here fava beans, while discussing selling parts of a human being.
GG
Shocker - medical professionals who deal with abortion on a day to day basis are not moved on a deep emotional level when they discuss the sale of tissue for medical research.
Really, where is the story.
Why must I always choose beween certain death and probable death.
The point isn't the fact that it was an edited video with old news footage...the point was the casual , and cold nature that Dr. Hannibal Lector drinks her Chianti and eats here fava beans, while discussing selling parts of a human being.
GG
That's called an appeal to emotion. It's not working.
Here's the post you missed-
The Real Story Behind That Shady Planned Parenthood Video
A ‘damning’ video of a Planned Parenthood employee has pro-lifers calling for the organization’s termination.
Pro-lifers are already calling it the end of Planned Parenthood. An undercover video released early this morning by the Center for Medical Progress (CMP), an offshoot of the conservative Manhattan Institute think tank, claims to show Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) Senior Director of Medical Services Dr. Deborah Nucatola openly discussing the sale of fetal body parts with actors posing as prospective buyers:
“I’d say a lot of people want liver,” Nucatola says at one point, before describing how providers can conduct abortions in order to preserve fetal tissue for transportation.
Later, when the actors ask her about partnering with PPFA directly as a national organization rather than working with regional Planned Parenthood affiliates, Nucatola replies, “[A]t the national office we have a litigation and law department, which just really doesn’t want us to be the middle people for this issue right now.”
It’s a video that appears damning or, at least, it is certainly presented as if it is, complete with interstitial captions summarizing U.S. legislation surrounding human fetal tissue. Some right-wing outlets are already suggesting that Planned Parenthood is violating federal law and making ominous reference to the penal code, which includes a 10-year prison sentence and/or a $500,000 fine. Social media has exploded with accusations that Planned Parenthood is selling fetal tissue for a profit.
But although Nucatola’s comments raise questions about the acquisition of fetal tissue and the ethical issues surrounding its collection, the transfer of human fetal tissue is not illegal in the United States. Women undergoing abortions sometimes choose to donate fetal tissue for scientific research and abortion providers do not facilitate these donations without their explicit consent.
The law cited by the Center for Medical Progress—42 U.S. Code § 289g—2—prohibits the acquisition and transferring of human fetal tissue “for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.” A definition within the code notes that “‘valuable consideration’ does not include reasonable payments associated with the transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue.”
In other words, transferring human fetal tissue is legal in the United States provided that payments are for processing and transportation costs.
The donation of aborted human fetal tissue may come as a shock to a public unfamiliar with the practice but it is, in fact, a longstanding one.
When asked whether or not the video shows Nucatola discussing activities that are indeed criminal, David Daleiden of the Center for Medical Progress told The Daily Beast, “Planned Parenthood does not incur any of these costs,” referring to the “reasonable payments” in 289g-2. Daleiden further claims that one clinic he’s aware of “receive[s] payments for each specimen” despite partnering with a third-party that handles the transportation. He did not immediately provide documentation for either claim.
In a statement to The Daily Beast, Eric Ferrero, Vice President of Communications for PPFA, maintained that Planned Parenthood’s practices surrounding human fetal tissue are legal:
“In health care, patients sometimes want to donate tissue to scientific research that can help lead to medical breakthroughs, such as treatments and cures for serious diseases. Women at Planned Parenthood who have abortions are no different. At several of our health centers, we help patients who want to donate tissue for scientific research, and we do this just like every other high-quality health care provider does—with full, appropriate consent from patients and under the highest ethical and legal standards. There is no financial benefit for tissue donation for either the patient or for Planned Parenthood. In some instances, actual costs, such as the cost to transport tissue to leading research centers, are reimbursed, which is standard across the medical field.”
Ferrero claims that the Center for Medical Progress a “well-funded group” that has been “established for the purpose of damaging Planned Parenthood’s mission and services,” further noting that similar accusations have been used on abortion providers in the past.
The donation of aborted human fetal tissue may come as a shock to a public unfamiliar with the practice but it is, in fact, a longstanding one. According to the American Society for Cell Biology, scientists have been researching human fetal tissue since the 1930s, with aborted tissue playing a part in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s development of the rubella and varicella vaccines in the 1960s (PDF). Ronald Reagan put a hold on using fetal tissue for transplants in 1988 while other forms of fetal tissue research continued and Bill Clinton subsequently lifted Reagan’s moratorium in 1993.
As of this writing, all content on the Center for Medical Progress website pertains to the undercover video and the project of which it was a part. The first blog post for the nonprofit was published on July 6 and refers to CMP as “a group of citizen journalists dedicated to monitoring and reporting on medical ethics and advances,” but the only project listed on the website so far is a “30-month-long investigative journalism study…documenting how Planned Parenthood sells the body parts of aborted babies.”
Louisiana governor and presidential hopeful Bobby Jindal has already announced that the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals will be investigating Planned Parenthood’s “alleged evil and illegal activity” in response to the viral video. In a statement, the governor said that Nucatola was “discussing the systematic harvesting and trafficking of human body parts,” practices which he called “shocking and gruesome.”
Since I'm all out of foreskin jokes..... The abortion is going to happen anyway why not utilise the remains instead of just sending it to the medical waste dump? I thought we were living in the age of recycling? I see no difference to this than donating my body parts when I die. I do not envy the people who have to get the organs out, I mean emptying the vacuum is bad enough, I'd hate to think what it would be like at the abortion factory.
I think all these chump republicans need to realise it's just utilising a resource that would otherwise be waste, it is not like planned parenthood goes out on the streets kidnapping pregnant women.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 02:21:56
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
42 U.S.C. 289g-2 states:
The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $500,000
42 U.S.C. 289g-2 states:
The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $500,000
42 U.S.C. 289g-2 states:
The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $500,000
This can't be spun.
But what if they never sold it in the first place? I believe that is the issue here- whether they just covered to cost of transportation or outright sold them.
42 U.S.C. 289g-2 states:
The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $500,000
This can't be spun.
But what if they never sold it in the first place? I believe that is the issue here- whether they just covered to cost of transportation or outright sold them.
At worst it's illegal.
At best it has an incredibly shaky ethical base. Which Herr Doktor alludes to throughout her conversation in relation to their legal team.
42 U.S.C. 289g-2 states:
The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $500,000
This can't be spun.
But what if they never sold it in the first place? I believe that is the issue here- whether they just covered to cost of transportation or outright sold them.
At worst it's illegal.
At best it has an incredibly shaky ethical base. Which Herr Doktor alludes to throughout her conversation in relation to their legal team.
I suppose a lot of it depends upon whether or not you think using bodies(specifically the bodies of unborn children) for scientific research is ethical or not. Personally as long as the parents have signed off on it I have no problem with it, assuming it advances our medical and biological sciences/community.
42 U.S.C. 289g-2 states:
The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $500,000
This can't be spun.
But what if they never sold it in the first place? I believe that is the issue here- whether they just covered to cost of transportation or outright sold them.
Irrelevant.
The statute states:
It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.
That video... all we have is that PP is selling these tissues... asking for donations instead, wasn't explicitly asked.
Actually, looking into it further, it might actually be legal for research purposes.
(c) Solicitation or acceptance of tissue from fetuses gestated for research purposes
It shall be unlawful for any person or entity involved or engaged in interstate commerce to—
(1) solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue knowing that a human pregnancy was deliberately initiated to provide such tissue; or
(2) knowingly acquire, receive, or accept tissue or cells obtained from a human embryo or fetus that was gestated in the uterus of a nonhuman animal.
Still might be illegal, but there is definitely a case.
That being said, I'm not sure why it is illegal. Probably to do the "their killing babies for stem cell research" nuttery that went on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 03:06:00
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
42 U.S.C. 289g-2 states:
The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $500,000
This can't be spun.
But what if they never sold it in the first place? I believe that is the issue here- whether they just covered to cost of transportation or outright sold them.
Irrelevant.
The statute states:
It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.
That video... all we have is that PP is selling these tissues... asking for donations instead, wasn't explicitly asked.
At worst, PP need some investigating.
I've gotten a little lost here-
Are we discussing whether or not it's illegal to use remains for research, or to sell them? I was under the impression it's okay for research, but not to sell them.
According to the first site I go to which responds to a copy paste of "The sale or purchase of human fetal tissue a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $500,000", this is actually technically legal.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/15 03:10:36
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Planned Parenthood makes two key admissions in their statement today: 1) Aborted fetal parts are harvested at their clinics, and 2) money is exchanged in connection with this.
They also tell several lies: 1) That proper consent is obtained from patients, 2) that Planned Parenthood does not make money off the body parts, and 3) that everything is legal.
The Center for Medical Progress has obtained an advertisement to Planned Parenthood clinics from StemExpress, LLC, one of the major purchasers of Planned Parenthood’s aborted fetal tissue. This flyer advertises 4 different times the financial benefit that Planned Parenthood clinics can receive from supplying fetal tissue, with the words: “Financially Profitable,” “Financial Profits,” “financial benefit to your clinic,” “fiscal growth of your own clinic.” The advertisement carries an endorsement from Planned Parenthood Medical Director Dr. Dorothy Furgerson.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 03:13:27
CMP is kinda hard for me to take seriously- they're obviously a bit biased.
Also I should point out they didn't specifically say the bodies are sold for money. Just that money is exchanged for it.
The proper consent issue I'd like to have more elaboration on; as well as what exactly they do make money on, if they're not directly making money off of selling the tissues; and what specifically are they doing is illegal. They phrased it all very strangely- as if to guide the reader to make certain conclusions, but leaving it slightly ambiguous to avoid being called out on false accusations.
Daleiden at the Center for Medical Progress issued a follow-up statement today claiming that Planned Parenthood doesn’t get informed consent from its patients to donate fetal tissue, although he doesn’t offer any proof:
Don't know yet.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Actually, looking into it further, it might actually be legal for research purposes.
(c) Solicitation or acceptance of tissue from fetuses gestated for research purposes
It shall be unlawful for any person or entity involved or engaged in interstate commerce to—
(1) solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue knowing that a human pregnancy was deliberately initiated to provide such tissue; or
(2) knowingly acquire, receive, or accept tissue or cells obtained from a human embryo or fetus that was gestated in the uterus of a nonhuman animal.
Still might be illegal, but there is definitely a case.
That being said, I'm not sure why it is illegal. Probably to do the "their killing babies for stem cell research" nuttery that went on.
I think that it would probably be legal from (c) standpoint, as I seriously doubt that the women getting abortions in a PP clinic, got pregnant or "gestated for research purposes"... I'm no lawyer, but I'd bet money that's the argument Perry Mason and Ben Matlock would go with.
generalgrog wrote: The point isn't the fact that it was an edited video with old news footage...the point was the casual , and cold nature that Dr. Hannibal Lector drinks her Chianti and eats here fava beans, while discussing selling parts of a human being.
Who gives a about how casual the discussion is? It's a blob of dead tissue with less "humanity" than the cockroaches you kill without the slightest regret. I fail to see why any discussion of the subject needs to be accompanied by tragic music and buckets of tears.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Sinful Hero wrote: CMP is kinda hard for me to take seriously- they're obviously a bit biased.
It's an anti-abortion, non-profit group. k?
Also I should point out they didn't specifically say the bodies are sold for money. Just that money is exchanged for it.
I watched about 90% of that 3hr video... it's quite chilling when she's non-chalantely on harvesting... actual... organs and which are in "demand".
The proper consent issue I'd like to have more elaboration on; as well as what exactly they do make money on, if they're not directly making money off of selling the tissues; and what specifically are they doing is illegal. They phrased it all very strangely- as if to guide the reader to make certain conclusions, but leaving it slightly ambiguous to avoid being called out on false accusations.
generalgrog wrote: The point isn't the fact that it was an edited video with old news footage...the point was the casual , and cold nature that Dr. Hannibal Lector drinks her Chianti and eats here fava beans, while discussing selling parts of a human being.
Who gives a about how casual the discussion is? It's a blob of dead tissue with less "humanity" than the cockroaches you kill without the slightest regret. I fail to see why any discussion of the subject needs to be accompanied by tragic music and buckets of tears.
So... harvesting fetal hearts, livers and lungs has less 'humanity' than the cockroaches I kill?
Wut?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 04:09:23
Sinful Hero wrote: CMP is kinda hard for me to take seriously- they're obviously a bit biased.
It's an anti-abortion, non-profit group. k?
Also I should point out they didn't specifically say the bodies are sold for money. Just that money is exchanged for it.
I watched about 90% of that 3hr video... it's quite chilling when she's non-chalantely on harvesting... actual... organs and which are in "demand".
The proper consent issue I'd like to have more elaboration on; as well as what exactly they do make money on, if they're not directly making money off of selling the tissues; and what specifically are they doing is illegal. They phrased it all very strangely- as if to guide the reader to make certain conclusions, but leaving it slightly ambiguous to avoid being called out on false accusations.
Planned Parenthood does a lot of good things, like providing free or low-cost contraceptives to people who need them. I don't know why some conservatives have such a problem with this. Somebody who wants contraception has a way to get it, and people who don't want contraception get butthurt. It's a stupid thing to fight over. If you don't want contraceptives then don't go to Planned Parenthood. Really, the people who don't want contraceptives have it way easier than people who do, because to not get contraceptives you literally have to do nothing.
Not going to Planned Parenthood is tied for easiest thing ever right beside not doing anything else.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 04:26:47
I would assume certain tissues would be more in demand than others...for research.
Reasonable asummption.
As for the flyer- it looks to me that they're asking clinics to partner with them? What are the issues you find there?
Uh... they're not a 'not for profit' or 'university' or what have you...
It's a private, multi-million company that (from the flyer & co webpage), advocates the many benefits of using StemExpress to distribute harvested human organs, and explicitly highlights the financial rewards that come from aborting healthy unborn babies and then harvesting their bodies for organs and other tissues.
When they're throwing phrases like: financial benefit to your clinic... fiscally rewards clinics... contribute to fiscal growth...
Add that to Dr. Nucatola's candid camera expose on selling harvested organs...
The argument that PP is simply donating these tissues at cost is causing my BS meter to go splody.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hordini wrote: Planned Parenthood does a lot of good things, like providing free or low-cost contraceptives to people who need them. I don't know why some conservatives have such a problem with this. Somebody who wants contraception has a way to get it, and people who don't want contraception get butthurt. It's a stupid thing to fight over. If you don't want contraceptives then don't go to Planned Parenthood. Really, the people who don't want contraceptives have it way easier than people who do, because to not get contraceptives you literally have to do nothing.
Not going to Planned Parenthood is tied for easiest thing ever right beside not doing anything else.
This has nothing to do with contraceptives.
Zero. Nada.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/15 04:30:02
whembly wrote: So... harvesting fetal hearts, livers and lungs has less 'humanity' than the cockroaches I kill?
It has no brain and therefore no humanity. And even if it did have those things it's already dead and can't possibly suffer any more harm. The cockroach, on the other hand, has a functioning nervous system and arguably a higher (though still incredibly low) level of the things that define what it means to be a person. The fact that the lump of dead tissue has human DNA matters about as much as the fact that cancer cells have human DNA.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/07/15 04:32:52
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
whembly wrote: So... harvesting fetal hearts, livers and lungs has less 'humanity' than the cockroaches I kill?
It has no brain and therefore no humanity. The cockroach, on the other hand, has a functioning nervous system and arguably a higher (though still incredibly low) level of the things that define what it means to be a person. The fact that the lump of dead tissue has human DNA matters about as much as the fact that cancer cells have human DNA.
I watched about 90% of that 3hr video... it's quite chilling when she's non-chalantely on harvesting... actual... organs and which are in "demand".
Why? I imagine those who harvest organs from dead bodies have much the same demeanor when talking about that part of their job. Some parts are going to be wanted more than others. Police, paramedics and medical staff all talk about cadavers like they are nothing when the average person has a large emotionally based response, i think it's disingenuous to claim that since she is desensitised as she deals with said parts every day that it is chilling, it is just normal for her.
Then again I supposed she is an evil butcher who delights in slicing up the kiddies and using their remains to pad out her retirement fund /s
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 04:38:26
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
I watched about 90% of that 3hr video... it's quite chilling when she's non-chalantely on harvesting... actual... organs and which are in "demand".
Why? I imagine those who harvest organs from dead bodies have much the same demeanor when talking about that part of their job. Some parts are going to be wanted more than others. Police, paramedics and medical staff all talk about cadavers like they are nothing when the average person has a large emotionally based response, i think it's disingenuous to claim that since she is desensitised as she deals with said parts every day that it is chilling, it is just normal for her.
Then again I supposed she is an evil butcher who delights in slicing up the kiddies and using their remains to pad out her retirement fund /s
I think we're all getting stuck in the emotional muck relating to any abortion related topics.
The issue I want to stress is that, this Dr. appears to actively circumvent laws regarding fetal harvestings and profiteering.
The issue I want to stress is that, this Dr. appears to actively circumvent laws regarding fetal harvestings and profiteering.
If the bit of law that Co'tor posted is accurate, then she appears to not be breaking any laws, unless somehow you can prove that there was some conspiracy that all those women at that particular clinic were "gestating for research purposes"
I watched about 90% of that 3hr video... it's quite chilling when she's non-chalantely on harvesting... actual... organs and which are in "demand".
Why? I imagine those who harvest organs from dead bodies have much the same demeanor when talking about that part of their job. Some parts are going to be wanted more than others. Police, paramedics and medical staff all talk about cadavers like they are nothing when the average person has a large emotionally based response, i think it's disingenuous to claim that since she is desensitised as she deals with said parts every day that it is chilling, it is just normal for her.
Then again I supposed she is an evil butcher who delights in slicing up the kiddies and using their remains to pad out her retirement fund /s
I think we're all getting stuck in the emotional muck relating to any abortion related topics.
The issue I want to stress is that, this Dr. appears to actively circumvent laws regarding fetal harvestings and profiteering.
Appears or has done something illegal? At the moment all we have is an edited video from a potentially biased source alleging that PP is selling fetal body parts. They haven't shown any hard evidence.
(more)
(building)
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about how casual the discussion is? It's a blob of dead tissue with less "humanity" than the cockroaches you kill without the slightest regret. I fail to see why any discussion of the subject needs to be accompanied by tragic music and buckets of tears.
