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Of course I have, because it isn't human in any meaningful sense. The real issue is that the anti-abortion side has over-humanized a tiny lump of tissue with no functioning brain in an effort to portray this as cute healthy babies being slaughtered for their organs (or just being slaughtered in general). And that image, while effective at motivating people to vote against abortion, simply has nothing to do with reality.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
The issue I want to stress is that, this Dr. appears to actively circumvent laws regarding fetal harvestings and profiteering.
If the bit of law that Co'tor posted is accurate, then she appears to not be breaking any laws, unless somehow you can prove that there was some conspiracy that all those women at that particular clinic were "gestating for research purposes"
(a) Purchase of tissue
It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.
(b) Solicitation or acceptance of tissue as directed donation for use in transplantation
It shall be unlawful for any person to solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue for the purpose of transplantation of such tissue into another person if the donation affects interstate commerce, the tissue will be or is obtained pursuant to an induced abortion, and—
(1) the donation will be or is made pursuant to a promise to the donating individual that the donated tissue will be transplanted into a recipient specified by such individual;
(2) the donated tissue will be transplanted into a relative of the donating individual; or
(3) the person who solicits or knowingly acquires, receives, or accepts the donation has provided valuable consideration for the costs associated with such abortion.
(c) Solicitation or acceptance of tissue from fetuses gestated for research purposes
It shall be unlawful for any person or entity involved or engaged in interstate commerce to—
(1) solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue knowing that a human pregnancy was deliberately initiated to provide such tissue; or
(2) knowingly acquire, receive, or accept tissue or cells obtained from a human embryo or fetus that was gestated in the uterus of a nonhuman animal.
(d) Criminal penalties for violations
(1) In general
Any person who violates subsection (a), (b), or (c) shall be fined in accordance with title 18, subject to paragraph (2), or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both.
(2) Penalties applicable to persons receiving consideration
With respect to the imposition of a fine under paragraph (1), if the person involved violates subsection (a) or (b)(3), a fine shall be imposed in an amount not less than twice the amount of the valuable consideration received.
(e) Definitions
For purposes of this section:
(1) The term “human fetal tissue” has the meaning given such term in section 289g–1 (g) of this title.
(2) The term “interstate commerce” has the meaning given such term in section 321 (b) of title 21.
(3) The term “valuable consideration” does not include reasonable payments associated with the transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 04:58:28
Hordini wrote: Planned Parenthood does a lot of good things, like providing free or low-cost contraceptives to people who need them. I don't know why some conservatives have such a problem with this. Somebody who wants contraception has a way to get it, and people who don't want contraception get butthurt. It's a stupid thing to fight over. If you don't want contraceptives then don't go to Planned Parenthood. Really, the people who don't want contraceptives have it way easier than people who do, because to not get contraceptives you literally have to do nothing.
Not going to Planned Parenthood is tied for easiest thing ever right beside not doing anything else.
This has nothing to do with contraceptives.
Zero. Nada.
Okay. Abortions then. Planned Parenthood provides them. They seem to be strongly disliked by some for this reason.
Hordini wrote: Planned Parenthood does a lot of good things, like providing free or low-cost contraceptives to people who need them. I don't know why some conservatives have such a problem with this. Somebody who wants contraception has a way to get it, and people who don't want contraception get butthurt. It's a stupid thing to fight over. If you don't want contraceptives then don't go to Planned Parenthood. Really, the people who don't want contraceptives have it way easier than people who do, because to not get contraceptives you literally have to do nothing.
Not going to Planned Parenthood is tied for easiest thing ever right beside not doing anything else.
This has nothing to do with contraceptives.
Zero. Nada.
Okay. Abortions then. Planned Parenthood provides them. They seem to be strongly disliked by some for this reason.
Hordini wrote: Planned Parenthood does a lot of good things, like providing free or low-cost contraceptives to people who need them. I don't know why some conservatives have such a problem with this. Somebody who wants contraception has a way to get it, and people who don't want contraception get butthurt. It's a stupid thing to fight over. If you don't want contraceptives then don't go to Planned Parenthood. Really, the people who don't want contraceptives have it way easier than people who do, because to not get contraceptives you literally have to do nothing.
Not going to Planned Parenthood is tied for easiest thing ever right beside not doing anything else.
This has nothing to do with contraceptives.
Zero. Nada.
Okay. Abortions then. Planned Parenthood provides them. They seem to be strongly disliked by some for this reason.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I see obviously no problem for it. This isnt a living being.
Agreed, otherwise you get the awkward situation of all those women who have naturally ocourring 1st trimester miscarriages being up on manslaughter charges.
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
Actually, it's exactly as accurate as yours because that's where I got it from.
Now, I'm no lawyer, so I'm not 100% certain how that works, but it looks to my unskilled eye to be legal for research purposes.
But that again begs the question, why is it illegal in the first place? I really don't understand.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
A couple of the important bits, separated for emphasis. You can't pick the law apart to twist it, you have to view it in its entirety to see where it is (or isn't) being broken.
Now, since the whole thing is a few posts up, let me show you the parts that make this legal:
It shall be unlawful for any person to solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue for the purpose of transplantation of such tissue into another person
See that part? You can't get fetal tissue to implant into someone else for any reason. This is because President Bush outlawed stem cell research during his Presidency, which is why the US is lagging behind in such sciences.
solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue knowing that a human pregnancy was deliberately initiated to provide such tissue;
This means the fetus was intentionally conceived and aborted in order to engage in this transaction. If the aborted pregnancy came about through other means, then the law is not violated. This is outlawing the "farming" of such tissues. That is not what's happening here.
The term “valuable consideration” does not include reasonable payments associated with the transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue.
See this part? Profit motive has to be present. If you're breaking even, then there's no violation of the law. If all you're doing is recouping the costs? No violation of the law.
Further? The fourth sentence ends with "and". So not only does everything listed before that have to be true, but so does at least 1 of the points following it.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
generalgrog wrote: The point isn't the fact that it was an edited video with old news footage...the point was the casual , and cold nature that Dr. Hannibal Lector drinks her Chianti and eats here fava beans, while discussing selling parts of a human being.
Who gives a about how casual the discussion is? It's a blob of dead tissue with less "humanity" than the cockroaches you kill without the slightest regret. I fail to see why any discussion of the subject needs to be accompanied by tragic music and buckets of tears.
I don't have a horse in this race, but this is where I would normally interject something like "what is your standard of humanity that cockroaches can posses greater amounts of it than potential human beings?" What definition of 'humanity' describes itself as 'having a central nervous system'? I must be crazy because this is the kind of definition I use for humanity :
[hyoo-man-i-tee or, often, yoo-]
Synonyms
Examples
Word Origin
noun, plural humanities.
1.
all human beings collectively; the human race; humankind.
2.
the quality or condition of being human; human nature.
3.
the quality of being humane; kindness; benevolence.
4.
the humanities.
the study of classical languages and classical literature.
the Latin and Greek classics as a field of study.
literature, philosophy, art, etc., as distinguished from the natural sciences.
the study of literature, philosophy, art, etc.
And the human race, collectively : kind of fits a fetus moreso than a cockroach. But of course, since you only post when you know you are right, I am interested in your philosophical proofs on how a cockroach - which exhibits no humanity whatsoever - exhibits more humanity than a potential human being.
generalgrog wrote: The point isn't the fact that it was an edited video with old news footage...the point was the casual , and cold nature that Dr. Hannibal Lector drinks her Chianti and eats here fava beans, while discussing selling parts of a human being.
Who gives a about how casual the discussion is? It's a blob of dead tissue with less "humanity" than the cockroaches you kill without the slightest regret. I fail to see why any discussion of the subject needs to be accompanied by tragic music and buckets of tears.
To clarify the above picture, that is probably the first time something has left me speechless on Dakka.
Anyways. What happens next with this? I'll admit I'm actually confused, as I tend to normally steer away from this issue. Will an investigation be launched? Fines?
Just curious.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 06:45:56
Having worked with human tissue before, it is one of the most tightly regulated areas of science around. Anyone who even vaguely looks like they have not filled in the right paperwork, or have done something in line with the law will be squished with a great weight falling from a massive height.
And regaining costs is not gaining from the sale of tissues.
Nor is discussing human tissue, medical procedures or anything else dispassionately a crime other than seemingly in the court of appeal to emotion...
Anyone dealing with death, or whatever, at a pretty regular basis is going to seem pretty damn casual about it to most other people.
I have seen and handled more dead bodies than most here on dakka, with possibly our deployed military folks seeing more of them. I have held and touched a 22 week old fetus in a plastic bucket, I have scooped brains off the street and picked severed body parts out of vehicles. I have bagged up a 16 year old kid that got killed in a car crash and while we were bagging him his cell phone kept on ringing with "mom" on the screen. I have stood next to people as they did with panic on their face and I have found people dead and decomposing. I looked at a face that was able to watch me while we were doing CPR and were perfuming his brain, only to watch those eyes go away when we were never able to restart his heart. And during all these things me and all other people involved responded just like the lady eating her dinner while talking about dead babies. I have helped roll over dead bodies for cleaning while eating an apple, ate potluck dinners while wearing scrubs covered in blood, had lunch and talked about our next paper right after touching the hands of the 22 week gestation fetus, got right back to playing CoD with the guys at the station after bagging the dead kid while his mom was trying to call him.
I have one particular call that feths with me every year when the anniversary of it rolls around, the rest are just memories. If you think that she is some bad person because she was able to eat dinner and drink wine while talking about dead babies then you probably should have some bad opinions about pretty much every single person working in the medical field. Death has long ago lost any kind of novelty for us, and talking about it in a casual way like you would discuss last nights football game around the water cooler at the office is normal for us. A dead body is just another dead body, no matter the age, and tissue is tissue, which can be used for good things. I have been known to look at my watch while eating a sandwich only to go "crap, gotta water the eyeballs" while waiting on the tissue guys to show up to harvest my patient. I'm sorry if I disappointed people by not having a silent alarm on my watch, excused myself from the company of my peers, made a quick trip to the chapel downstairs to ritually prepare myself for the solem duty of opening a dead guys eyes to place some drops on his eyeballs to preserve the gift of tissue his family provided to others, only to finish with lighting a candle at the bedside. Truth be told watering his eyeballs was just one more thing during my busy shift and he was probably person #137 that I have seen dead during my career.
Medical people don't approach death the same way as normal people, im sure the military guys here can relate. What it doesn't mean is that we don't care.
generalgrog wrote: It's sad how you guys can just hand waive...selling aborted baby parts....
That is the 'Real Story"
You're confusing 'hand waving' with 'fact finding'... But congratulations on joining the Simpsons-esque angry mob that immediately leaped up all over the internet at this extremely jaundiced piece of flamebait propaganda...
Please continue to enjoy using this ridiculous video, that includes parts over 10 years old, stuck together with paperclips, bubblegum and ill will, to fulfill some conspiracy driven by your religious conviction at the expense of your common sense...
Good night Gracie...
"Tonight on Fox News" were my thoughts on his replies.
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
(a) Purchase of tissue
It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.
(b) Solicitation or acceptance of tissue as directed donation for use in transplantation
It shall be unlawful for any person to solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue for the purpose of transplantation of such tissue into another person if the donation affects interstate commerce, the tissue will be or is obtained pursuant to an induced abortion, and—
(1) the donation will be or is made pursuant to a promise to the donating individual that the donated tissue will be transplanted into a recipient specified by such individual;
(2) the donated tissue will be transplanted into a relative of the donating individual; or
(3) the person who solicits or knowingly acquires, receives, or accepts the donation has provided valuable consideration for the costs associated with such abortion.
(c) Solicitation or acceptance of tissue from fetuses gestated for research purposes
It shall be unlawful for any person or entity involved or engaged in interstate commerce to—
(1) solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue knowing that a human pregnancy was deliberately initiated to provide such tissue; or
(2) knowingly acquire, receive, or accept tissue or cells obtained from a human embryo or fetus that was gestated in the uterus of a nonhuman animal.
(d) Criminal penalties for violations
(1) In general
Any person who violates subsection (a), (b), or (c) shall be fined in accordance with title 18, subject to paragraph (2), or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both.
(2) Penalties applicable to persons receiving consideration
With respect to the imposition of a fine under paragraph (1), if the person involved violates subsection (a) or (b)(3), a fine shall be imposed in an amount not less than twice the amount of the valuable consideration received.
(e) Definitions
For purposes of this section:
(1) The term “human fetal tissue” has the meaning given such term in section 289g–1 (g) of this title.
(2) The term “interstate commerce” has the meaning given such term in section 321 (b) of title 21.
(3) The term “valuable consideration” does not include reasonable payments associated with the transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue.
Interesting you chose not to highlight (e)(3).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 08:00:05
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
hotsauceman1 wrote: I see obviously no problem for it. This isnt a living being.
It was though, and arguably if the organs are still usable, it is a whole bunch of small living organism . Just like a carrot is a human being.
d-usa wrote: Anyone dealing with death, or whatever, at a pretty regular basis is going to seem pretty damn casual about it to most other people.
I have seen and handled more dead bodies than most here on dakka, with possibly our deployed military folks seeing more of them. I have held and touched a 22 week old fetus in a plastic bucket, I have scooped brains off the street and picked severed body parts out of vehicles. I have bagged up a 16 year old kid that got killed in a car crash and while we were bagging him his cell phone kept on ringing with "mom" on the screen. I have stood next to people as they did with panic on their face and I have found people dead and decomposing. I looked at a face that was able to watch me while we were doing CPR and were perfuming his brain, only to watch those eyes go away when we were never able to restart his heart. And during all these things me and all other people involved responded just like the lady eating her dinner while talking about dead babies. I have helped roll over dead bodies for cleaning while eating an apple, ate potluck dinners while wearing scrubs covered in blood, had lunch and talked about our next paper right after touching the hands of the 22 week gestation fetus, got right back to playing CoD with the guys at the station after bagging the dead kid while his mom was trying to call him.
Damn, what is your job? Seems like fun. I mean, you get to play CoD with your colleagues during working hours!
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Just a variety of jobs. Main job is RN, both in the ER and medical/surgical units. Used to work for the ambulance service as well and spend 5 years volunteering for a fire department.
Wow, so many forget Planned Parenthood has other mandates than just abortions right?
Male infertility issues are another.....dat's right, helping those who want to make kids be able to make them, so they check fertility problems out for married couples, making sure she can have a kid, and that he can shoot live rounds not blanks.
Also counseling for parenthood, making sure people are ready on many levels to be able to have, love, support and raise kids who have never had kids before.
As for anything else, look up what else Planned Parenthood does.
"Your mumblings are awakening the sleeping Dragon, be wary when meddling the affairs of Dragons, for thou art tasty and go good with either ketchup or chocolate. "
Dragons fear nothing, if it acts up, we breath magic fire that turns them into marshmallow peeps. We leaguers only cry rivets!
d-usa wrote: Just a variety of jobs. Main job is RN, both in the ER and medical/surgical units.
RN? ER?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
(a) Purchase of tissue
It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.
(b) Solicitation or acceptance of tissue as directed donation for use in transplantation
It shall be unlawful for any person to solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue for the purpose of transplantation of such tissue into another person if the donation affects interstate commerce, the tissue will be or is obtained pursuant to an induced abortion, and—
(1) the donation will be or is made pursuant to a promise to the donating individual that the donated tissue will be transplanted into a recipient specified by such individual;
(2) the donated tissue will be transplanted into a relative of the donating individual; or
(3) the person who solicits or knowingly acquires, receives, or accepts the donation has provided valuable consideration for the costs associated with such abortion.
(c) Solicitation or acceptance of tissue from fetuses gestated for research purposes
It shall be unlawful for any person or entity involved or engaged in interstate commerce to—
(1) solicit or knowingly acquire, receive, or accept a donation of human fetal tissue knowing that a human pregnancy was deliberately initiated to provide such tissue; or
(2) knowingly acquire, receive, or accept tissue or cells obtained from a human embryo or fetus that was gestated in the uterus of a nonhuman animal.
(d) Criminal penalties for violations
(1) In general
Any person who violates subsection (a), (b), or (c) shall be fined in accordance with title 18, subject to paragraph (2), or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both.
(2) Penalties applicable to persons receiving consideration
With respect to the imposition of a fine under paragraph (1), if the person involved violates subsection (a) or (b)(3), a fine shall be imposed in an amount not less than twice the amount of the valuable consideration received.
(e) Definitions
For purposes of this section:
(1) The term “human fetal tissue” has the meaning given such term in section 289g–1 (g) of this title.
(2) The term “interstate commerce” has the meaning given such term in section 321 (b) of title 21.
(3) The term “valuable consideration” does not include reasonable payments associated with the transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue.
Interesting you chose not to highlight (e)(3).
Okay... and?
If you got a bone to pick with me, spit it out yo.
It's clear I was trying to drive the topic to any possible profit motives.
When you're editing out 8 minutes of a conversation and trying to pretend that the figures they quote for one thing are not in fact from a different thing mentioned in the missing time, ..well.....
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
I looked at this thread last night and thought it was a joke. Turns out three pages of comments later still has me thinking that, just in a different way.
When you're editing out 8 minutes of a conversation and trying to pretend that the figures they quote for one thing are not in fact from a different thing mentioned in the missing time, ..well.....
Whats editing out 8 minutes when PP are editing 37,739,520 minutes of life!!!!!ONE!
And they aren't even excited by it!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 12:29:22
With the bit about certain parts 'being in demand' surely that's to be expected? If research is being performed on foetal heart abnormalities, for example, then surely that company will want to examine hearts rather than toes?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 13:34:38
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
about how casual the discussion is? It's a blob of dead tissue with less "humanity" than the cockroaches you kill without the slightest regret. I fail to see why any discussion of the subject needs to be accompanied by tragic music and buckets of tears.
. Just like a carrot is a human being.
