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Hey so I've just been running through the various supplements and I was wondering if there's ever been any official fluff on Eldar/Tau interactions? I seem to remember they had a unpleasant run-in with the Dark Eldar and a sketchy memory of a craftworld that was looking out for them but I was wondering if there was anything else.

I don't have a very expansive bit of knowledge for this, but if you consider the DoW games as canon, then those are big interactions between them, but doesn't show the diplomacy/trickery that could be achieved between the two.

Nothing really concrete that I'm aware of, although there is a faction of conspiracy theorists who think that the Eldar created the Ethereals.

And that conspiracy is based upon suppositions made from ONE source (corroborated nowhere else) - Xenology.

The same source that shows a tau with FEET, not hooves.

There is no much official fluff about this as far as I know but after manage to many years of roaming around, I managed to learn some things about their relations, things I believe are the most likely to be true despite being drawn from discussions/rumors/random material.

- Many Eldar are racial supremacists that DGAF about inferior races, especially new ones. Tau are still a minor race given the size of their empire and their overall influence over the lore of 40k. Eldar want to restore their empire and have to fight much greater threats than Tau.

- Tau expansionism is motivated by a mix of racial/ideological belief in Tau superiority over any other specie, which basically mean "Join us or die". Given the first thing I said, CWE which could come accross Tau forces would never surrender their sovereignty and would escape or fight. Dark Eldar and Eldar Corsairs would rampage and loot any race they meet, even though the former could be open to cooperation in a dire situation, especially with reasonable Tau.

- I heard many rumors that Tau had destroyed several Eldar Maiden Worlds but I have never found the source of this affirmation. Whether it is true or not, Maiden Worlds are not that far from Tau Empire, which could mean Eldar could have destroyed Tau exploration/conquest fleets or Eldar and Tau could enjoy some form of stretched economic/political relations.

Conclusion : Tau & Eldar are quite reasonable in their nature even though they pursue different goals that may bring them to confrontation. As "order" forces, I think they could be friend in a very specific campaign where Chaos or Nids or Orks or anything else are compromizing valuable assets (material or not) for both races.

All these words to say Taudar lists are for power gamers!

 chromedog wrote:
And that conspiracy is based upon suppositions made from ONE source (corroborated nowhere else) - Xenology.

The same source that shows a tau with FEET, not hooves.

It is also supported by the book Fire Warrior, and the Tau codex. And to be specific, the theory isn't that the ''Eldar'' created the Etherals, it is that the Harlequins did. The Tau codex says the Etherals appeared one night under flashing lights in the sky, while Fire Warrior expands on this to say there were also Bright Lithe Figures capering between the mists. Xenology states whoever stole the bug queen to use in the Tau the otherside of the universe must of used the Webway, which only the Harlequins truly master. However, my own personal Fan Theory aside...

The Tau/Dark Eldar relation was in the previous DE codex. Tau were beset by a Tyranid Hive fleet they couldn't handle, so were hiring everything and anything as mercenaries. So when Urien Rakarth appeared as a cultured, if Macabre, friend in need the Tau accepted his aid. But in exchange, he asked for a ''cultural exchange'' of 777 Tau of each cast and 7 Etherals. He Tau agreed, as the Flesh Monsters had been instrumental in defending against the Tyranids. However during the coming battles, it became obvious that the Flesh Monsters were Tau themselves (Blue Flesh, Hooves) and the Tau mobilized their Military and the Military of the next world over to attack the DE ship lazing in orbit. All they found were smoke and mirrors, and in addition Rakarth had invaded the near by world that sent it's military over to stop Rakarth, leaving it defenseless. The Tau returned to a ghost world, all Tau gone and all Mercenaries such as Kroot and Vespid arranged in corpse-sigils seen from space. Tau relations with the Dark Eldar are...strained to say the least.

Your other point was a quote from Eldrad, in which he declared he felt a parental protectiveness over the Tau, but he doesn't know why. Craftworld Eldar have a strained relationship with Tau as well, as the Tau's massive bursts of colonization invariably leads them into conflict with Biel-Tan and Exodites. So if you wanted to play Tau + Eldar allies, i would suggest Harlequins, it has the best basis.

It is not supported by Fire Warrior or the Tau codex.

What is stated in those books says that it is likely someone created the Ethereals. It in no way points towards the Eldar.

My theory is that it was the Necrons, personally.

A Quote from Fire Warrior, seeming to expand upon the Codex's point about lights in the sky.

''There had been lights, glimpsed dimly around the distant mountaintops, for three days. Stories spread amongst the armies of strange figures lurking in the mist of the hills, colourful attire and fluted limbs melting and capering through the haze.''

Of course, this is only 1 source, so it is far from concrete evidence, but it's considerably more then most Tau-Creator theories have. Unless of course you read the quote above to indicate Necrons over Harlequins...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It is not supported by Fire Warrior or the Tau codex.

What is stated in those books says that it is likely someone created the Ethereals. It in no way points towards the Eldar.

My theory is that it was the Necrons, personally.

Any reason besides to be the exact opposite as the main far fetched theory?

Why and how would the Eldar, who do everything psychically (and I mean everything) create a race that is so psychically-blunt as to be unable to traverse the Warp (and possibly unable to use the Webway) and then throw them on the far side of the galaxy from the Source of Evil where that Psychic Bluntness might actually be useful, in the back corner of a star-spanning empire that the Eldar know to be rabidly xenophobic and extremely, extensively militaristic?

If the Eldar did create the Tau, they appear to have created them for the sole purpose of becoming another victim of the Imperium's genocidal mania.

 Psienesis wrote:
If the Eldar did create the Tau, they appear to have created them for the sole purpose of becoming another victim of the Imperium's genocidal mania.

Or maybe their farseers foresaw the coming of the warp storms that shielded T'au from the Imperium while they developed.

But yeah, I basically agree that it's out of character for the Eldar to do something like creating Ethereals. The Tau are not the only up-and-coming star empire, why not manipulate an already existing one than go through all the trouble of developing this sub-race of psycic/pheromone control ethereals? The only thing about it that maybe suggests Eldar involvement is that it would have taking thousands of years of planning - something which the Eldar are absolutely capable of. But I don't really get what the end goal would be.

The Warp Storms only sort of protected the Tau from the Imperium. It kept them from getting purged while being primitive, but the modern Tau Empire is still not big enough to actually resist a full-scale Imperial Crusade.

If, for example, the 13th Black Crusade were not currently happening, turning the forces currently committed to it would be the end of the Tau.

jakejackjake wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It is not supported by Fire Warrior or the Tau codex.

What is stated in those books says that it is likely someone created the Ethereals. It in no way points towards the Eldar.

My theory is that it was the Necrons, personally.

Any reason besides to be the exact opposite as the main far fetched theory?

Lights in the sky and strange emaciated figures.

The arrival of the Ethereals was heralded by a 'Dragon' that wailed across the sky and spat lightning. Sounds like a Night Scythe to me.

The Tau are warp-blind - as are the Necrons. There are a lot of parallels, with the reliance on (and belief in) technology over witchery, the use of networked AIs to do the heavy lifting (Canopteks / Drones).
The strict rank structure that calls back to the dynastic tablets of 4th edition. The strange obsession with the number four (four years between ranks, counting in base eight, etc), four being associated with death.

The rapid technological advance over six thousand years without an accompanying psychic advance. The Tau have't evolved since Mon'tau ruled - With the exception of the Air Caste, they're still biologically almost identical to the tribal primitives.

Again, the lack of psionics. Eldar? Eldar (except Dark Eldar) use psionics for literally everything. None of their technology works without a psychic link. It's inherent to their entire mindset. For an Eldar to even try and create something with no psionics whatsoever would mean that Eldar twisting her or his brain in horrible knots from which it might never recover.

The designs of their technology. Like the Necrons, Tau use segmented plates in rigid, geometric shapes for everything - Eldar use a much more organic, melded look. Even the Devilfish hull's smooth curves follow mathematically precise shapes.

The writing. Tau writing is essentially simple straight lines and right angles. Necron writing is simple arcs and straight lines. Eldar writing is hypercomplex squiggles layered over one another.

Tau are too irrelevant for the Eldar to care about.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It is not supported by Fire Warrior or the Tau codex.

What is stated in those books says that it is likely someone created the Ethereals. It in no way points towards the Eldar.

My theory is that it was the Necrons, personally.

Any reason besides to be the exact opposite as the main far fetched theory?

Lights in the sky and strange emaciated figures.

The arrival of the Ethereals was heralded by a 'Dragon' that wailed across the sky and spat lightning. Sounds like a Night Scythe to me.

The Tau are warp-blind - as are the Necrons. There are a lot of parallels, with the reliance on (and belief in) technology over witchery, the use of networked AIs to do the heavy lifting (Canopteks / Drones).
The strict rank structure that calls back to the dynastic tablets of 4th edition. The strange obsession with the number four (four years between ranks, counting in base eight, etc), four being associated with death.

The rapid technological advance over six thousand years without an accompanying psychic advance. The Tau have't evolved since Mon'tau ruled - With the exception of the Air Caste, they're still biologically almost identical to the tribal primitives.

Again, the lack of psionics. Eldar? Eldar (except Dark Eldar) use psionics for literally everything. None of their technology works without a psychic link. It's inherent to their entire mindset. For an Eldar to even try and create something with no psionics whatsoever would mean that Eldar twisting her or his brain in horrible knots from which it might never recover.

The designs of their technology. Like the Necrons, Tau use segmented plates in rigid, geometric shapes for everything - Eldar use a much more organic, melded look. Even the Devilfish hull's smooth curves follow mathematically precise shapes.

The writing. Tau writing is essentially simple straight lines and right angles. Necron writing is simple arcs and straight lines. Eldar writing is hypercomplex squiggles layered over one another.

Also the Necrons have a reason for creating and evolving the Tau forcibly.
Szarekh, the Silent King mourned the loss of his body and soul.
So before leaving into self-exile he created a race suitable for habitation of their minds.
He sees the Tyranids, and realizes the threat they pose to his fledgling race.
He returns to the the universe at war, and his entire plan threatened at all sides.
He creates the ethereals and forcibly advances the race so that it might defend itself.
Then Szarekh begins awakening all of his dynasties to distract the various forces in the universe from the Tau, making them appear inconsequential by comparison.

Also consider how close the Sautekh and Tau are to one another, yet the conflicts between them are minimal at best.
This is all my theory however.

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten that I meant to mention the fact that Tau space is right in the heart of the old Necron Empire.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten that I meant to mention the fact that Tau space is right in the heart of the old Necron Empire.

Except it wasn't:

The Atun Dynasty rules many Tomb Worlds on the northern galactic rim - the birthplace of the Necrontyr. Many of the ancient wonders of the galaxy lie under the control of the Phaeron of Atun and his powerful Overlorsdr, and still many more wait to be uncovered from Tomb Worlds not yet awoken.

p. 10, 5th edition Necron Codex

The Tau are in the southeast of the galaxy. Even by the map in the latest Necron Codex, the bulk of Necron territory is in the east, not southeast.

It should also be noted that practically all fluff regarding the Tau and their mysterious creators has it's roots Pre-Newcrons. So unless GW has decided to Retcon its own well hidden theories then i would be surprised. I would be astonished even that GW managed to stay on top of it's own fluff.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Warp Storms only sort of protected the Tau from the Imperium. It kept them from getting purged while being primitive, but the modern Tau Empire is still not big enough to actually resist a full-scale Imperial Crusade.

If, for example, the 13th Black Crusade were not currently happening, turning the forces currently committed to it would be the end of the Tau.

Considering the fact that the Tau Empire actually did withstand a full-scale Imperial Crusade, and would have (probably) won had the Tyranids not shown up to NOM them...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iracundus wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten that I meant to mention the fact that Tau space is right in the heart of the old Necron Empire.

Except it wasn't:

The Atun Dynasty rules many Tomb Worlds on the northern galactic rim - the birthplace of the Necrontyr. Many of the ancient wonders of the galaxy lie under the control of the Phaeron of Atun and his powerful Overlorsdr, and still many more wait to be uncovered from Tomb Worlds not yet awoken.

p. 10, 5th edition Necron Codex

The Tau are in the southeast of the galaxy. Even by the map in the latest Necron Codex, the bulk of Necron territory is in the east, not southeast.

As I recall, Southeast is still a part of the east. Also, they aren't even that far to the southeast, they're basically east-southeast.

The Tau didn't withstand a Crusade, they just weren't instantly obliterated. The Damocles Gulf Crusade had barely started when it turned around and went to fight Tyranids.

One might also note that the forces committed to the 13th Black Crusade are several orders of magnitude greater than that of the Damocles Gulf.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:It should also be noted that practically all fluff regarding the Tau and their mysterious creators has it's roots Pre-Newcrons. So unless GW has decided to Retcon its own well hidden theories then i would be surprised. I would be astonished even that GW managed to stay on top of it's own fluff.

It should also be noted that the Newcron fluff only changed the fate of the C'tan, it didn't actually contradict anything else, and that the visual design, writing and so on and so forth that I listed all existed pre-Warddex.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Tau didn't withstand a Crusade, they just weren't instantly obliterated. The Damocles Gulf Crusade had barely started when it turned around and went to fight Tyranids.

One might also note that the forces committed to the 13th Black Crusade are several orders of magnitude greater than that of the Damocles Gulf.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Damocles_Gulf_Crusade

When the Imperial fleet reached the Tau Sept world of Dal'yth Prime, however, the Crusade ground to a bloody stalemate as the formidable numbers and high technology of the Tau and their Kroot allies thwarted every attempt to capture the world or its star system. Many months of terrible fighting ensued with nothing gained on either side. By late 745.M41 the Crusade's commanders eventually agreed to requests from the Tau Water Caste for peace talks.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade#Operation_Hydra

Their advance stalled, Imperial forces under General Wendell Gauge advocated digging in to avoid the worst of the Tau firepower. However, superior Tau night-vision equipment led to heavy losses in night raids that only Space Marine patrols could alleviate. This was compounded by the constant worry that a new Tau fleet would arrive, the Crusade fleet was badly damaged and could barely protect its transports as it was. As the siege ground on, more Tau forces arrived each day.[4c]