Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Astorath with 10 death co is quickly becoming my go to main unit in most games, and is up there with Dante+Priest+Sanguinary guard. While its true that units like Asty with DC don't do well vs armies with a lot of long range shooting, I will say that against medium to short range shooting armies and other assault lists they are worth their weight in gold. Plus, while theyre not a death star, they ARE an anti death star, and tend to kill the things we have problems with.

I would think that most medium range lists can dust them as well. It's not like there's much else in C:BA that anyone cares about enough to prioritize over these guys.

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Astorath with 10 death co is quickly becoming my go to main unit in most games, and is up there with Dante+Priest+Sanguinary guard. While its true that units like Asty with DC don't do well vs armies with a lot of long range shooting, I will say that against medium to short range shooting armies and other assault lists they are worth their weight in gold. Plus, while theyre not a death star, they ARE an anti death star, and tend to kill the things we have problems with.

I would think that most medium range lists can dust them as well. It's not like there's much else in C:BA that anyone cares about enough to prioritize over these guys.

A Castigator, drop podding Furioso's, drop podding Mephiston with Libby and assault squad, fast Vindicators, bike squad with grav and attached TH/SS Bike Master.

There are lots of threats the BA can put in the enemies face which either allow the DC to get there or allow the threats to wreck havoc. Heck just ally in SM and have podding Centurions. How about a Librarian Conclave + Mephiston + assault squad that Drop Pod into the enemy lines. Mephiston puts an end to Imperial Knights and Wraith knights. He just needs to get there. A conclave will protect him after the drop and then the next turn he can go to town. Meanwhile the DC move up the board and assault on turn 2.

Don't limit yourself to just the BA codex because now a day no one plays just one codex. There are allies and and formation attachments everywhere.

"Heck just ally in SM and have podding Centurions."

Might as well just play SM then. If we put C:SM in the mix, then I don't need to field any BA at all.

All these things you list off are rather expensive, and your opponent will have very limited targeting choices. I just think that Astorath is pretty much a complete waste of points.

Word of advice, don't try arguing with Martel.

I like the guy but he is set in "doom.and gloom' mode for the blood angels, and on many fronts I agree with him.

Blood angels however, will never win a game vs a top tier eldar list

Unless you run pure firepower blood angels, at which point you might as well play marines. You won't be using any of your unique units anyway.

 raiden wrote:
Word of advice, don't try arguing with Martel.

I like the guy but he is set in "doom.and gloom' mode for the blood angels, and on many fronts I agree with him.

Blood angels however, will never win a game vs a top tier eldar list

Unless you run pure firepower blood angels, at which point you might as well play marines. You won't be using any of your unique units anyway.

This is basically what I do with a single unit of DC now. Because the other unique units are frequently just victims.

I'm open to convincing arguments, but don't pretend you can run this 400 pt unit across the board (that needs to assault btw) and just win 40K.

Definitely. The most success I've had with pure assualt BA has been running two CADs. At 1500+

Run MSU, but make them big enough to have killing power in assault. They just aren't durable enough otherwise.

1-2 drop pod fragiouso's
2 units if about 7-8 DC

Some bikes with grav guns

And 2 vindicators

HQs would be ML2 libs or sang priests.

The Death company are interchangeable with sang guard vs armies that have alot of good armor saves.

Run dante for fun, but in competitive play he will be focused down, he is good for sucking up shots for other units though.

Also good if you go for deepstrike armies.

I face too many scatbikes for Vindicators to ever be a thing for me.

That sucks, like I said, I'd only run my assualt angels against non-eldar/tau armies.

I'd recommend frag cannon dreads though, they work well against scat bikes.

BA flavour goes out the window for any chance to win vs tau or eldar.

 raiden wrote:
That sucks, like I said, I'd only run my assualt angels against non-eldar/tau armies.

I'd recommend frag cannon dreads though, they work well against scat bikes.

BA flavour goes out the window for any chance to win vs tau or eldar.

Or SM. Or Necrons. Or Daemons.

Frag cannon dreads are pretty universally useful, even if the SM dreads have more CC attacks now.

Martel732 wrote:

 raiden wrote:
That sucks, like I said, I'd only run my assualt angels against non-eldar/tau armies.

I'd recommend frag cannon dreads though, they work well against scat bikes.

BA flavour goes out the window for any chance to win vs tau or eldar.

Or SM. Or Necrons. Or Daemons.

Frag cannon dreads are pretty universally useful, even if the SM dreads have more CC attacks now.

On this we can agree.

Having ws5 and front armor 13 more than makes up for the difference in attacks, and rending is the kind of rule that makes your dice occasionally go "OOPS" and vaporize a unit with a ton of wounds that ignore armor saves.

I will agree that every time I have tried to run a pure assault list I've gotten stomped, but like other people have said, presenting immediate threats that people have to deal with tends to draw shooting away from the things that matter. In my 2250 list, a 10 man infiltrating CC scout squad, and a fragioso+2x5 podded sternguard from the first company task force do that job nicely.

Martel732 wrote:
"Heck just ally in SM and have podding Centurions."

Might as well just play SM then. If we put C:SM in the mix, then I don't need to field any BA at all.

Very much this.

On a related note, does anyone else LOVE the BA psychic power list as much as I do? There is literally only one power I don't want to roll, and that's Blood Boil, and even that one is useful. The Quickening is a great primaris, Unleash Rage is savage, Fear of the Dark has won me games I had no business winning, and even Shield of Sanguinius is useful enough (even if it's strictly worse than its divination counterpart.) The real sleeper hits for me though are Wings of Sanguinius and The Blood Lance. Wings gives you a pretty staggering mobility boost and with the changes to beams in 7th ed, Lance is pretty incredible.

All this is why I am favoring a lvl2 libby with Gallien's Staff and a jump lack in low point games, as 115 points buys you a ton with him. He's even good in combat, as 4+d3 ws5 str7 ap4 init5+d3 instant death attacks on the charge is nothing to sneeze at.

That is one area I feel we did really well in. Although Fear the Darkness is the power I don't want. No one ever fails that roll for me.


For those of you keeping score; I'm back to Blood Angels. My tryst with the new Marine codex lasted all of one game. I still think Sanguinius comes off like a putz in the HH novels, but I can't deny who I am.

I've toyed with the idea of taking a Librarian for the reasons mentioned above. I currently run a jump pack Chaplain with Veritas Vitae (115pts) as my only HQ amongst 10 DC, and it's very effective; the re-rolls from Zealot make up for any DC lost on the commute across the board.

I rarely play in games over 1,500, so I have a little flexibility between what units I take out there dependent on opponent. Would a jump pack ML2 Librarian be a better option? Same points cost, easily interchangeable.

 slowclinic wrote:
I've toyed with the idea of taking a Librarian for the reasons mentioned above. I currently run a jump pack Chaplain with Veritas Vitae (115pts) as my only HQ amongst 10 DC, and it's very effective; the re-rolls from Zealot make up for any DC lost on the commute across the board.

I rarely play in games over 1,500, so I have a little flexibility between what units I take out there dependent on opponent. Would a jump pack ML2 Librarian be a better option? Same points cost, easily interchangeable.

In short? Yes.

The longer answer is that the utility of a libby far outweighs that of a chaplain, as the death co are really only benefiting from the hatred part of zealot. Gallien's Staff lets you relaibly get off a couple powers a turn on any roll of a 3+ for warp charges, which combined with the various blessings and utility powers in the Sanguinary discipline makes for a very effective force multiplier. Ideally, you want Unleash Rage, as it cranks your death co to 11 in a big way, but Shield and Wings are good as well, particularly the latter. Finally, the Quickening lets your libby hang with some of the more powerful combat characters in the game.

 th3maninblak wrote:

 slowclinic wrote:
I've toyed with the idea of taking a Librarian for the reasons mentioned above. I currently run a jump pack Chaplain with Veritas Vitae (115pts) as my only HQ amongst 10 DC, and it's very effective; the re-rolls from Zealot make up for any DC lost on the commute across the board.

I rarely play in games over 1,500, so I have a little flexibility between what units I take out there dependent on opponent. Would a jump pack ML2 Librarian be a better option? Same points cost, easily interchangeable.

In short? Yes.

The longer answer is that the utility of a libby far outweighs that of a chaplain, as the death co are really only benefiting from the hatred part of zealot. Gallien's Staff lets you relaibly get off a couple powers a turn on any roll of a 3+ for warp charges, which combined with the various blessings and utility powers in the Sanguinary discipline makes for a very effective force multiplier. Ideally, you want Unleash Rage, as it cranks your death co to 11 in a big way, but Shield and Wings are good as well, particularly the latter. Finally, the Quickening lets your libby hang with some of the more powerful combat characters in the game.

Wonderful advice, thank you. Surprisingly the has held up against some of the named Chaos and Ork characters and come out on top, easily, quite a lot recently. This in one on one challenges too. It'd be a nice switch up to give the army a little more variety. I'd gotten comfortable with a army that held its own pretty well in average sized games (1,750pts and below). I'll start parodying with load outs tomorrow. I'll need to order a model and also add a jump pack conversion in there too...

I'd been thinking about this thread for a couple of days and a thought came to me - we could always abuse IA:2. I dismissed it at first because SMs could do it better... but if you combine IA:2 with Fleash Tearers strike force - Viola! It becomes unique to BA.

Here is an example 1850pt list. Now FW have stated in emails to myself and others that since the arrival of the new BA dex that Chaplains unlock multiple relics of the armoury. Most Tournaments seem to accept this despite it not yet being an official faq.

Chaplain
Jump pack

5 Tactical marines
Heavy flamer
Razorback
Tl assault cannon, overcharged engines

10 Death Company (or 2 5's)
Jump packs

Javelin
Multimelta, 2 HK missiles

Javelin
Multimelta, 2 HK missiles

Javelin
Multimelta, 2 HK missiles

Javelin
Multimelta, 2 HK missiles

Javelin
Multimelta, 2 HK missiles

Javelin
Multimelta, 2 HK missiles

Sicaran

Sicaran

Sicaran

Typhon

1850pts

The advantages of the javelins over traditional speeders are that they have front and side armour of 11 as well as the ability to deepstrike OR outflank. With the twinlinked (I think will have to check when I get home) cyclone missile launcher, 2 HK missiles and a MM they have 2 tl krak missile, 2 krak missile and 1 MM shot on the turn they arrive from outflank (if they don't move over 6") or deepstrike. And 2 tl krak and 1 MM shot every turn after that. Almost certainly against side or rear armour. They can also start on the board for a heavy long ranged alpha strike. All for a mere 95pts apiece.
3 naked sicarans provide 18 tl st7 rending ignores jink shots and the typhon provides a st10 ap1 primary weapon ignores cover blast. Both units are great counters to new meta builds.
The razorback with its tl assault cannon adds to the mutiple mid strength rending shots and is fast like everything else in the list.
DC seem perfect to go along with the chaplain and protect vehicles/smash hordes.
Of course I highly doubt a single person in the hobby owns 6 Javelins, 3 Sicarans and a Typhon. But it looks to me like a solid top drawer list if anybody did.
The whole list has 12" movement without sacraficing on shooting and its firepower is spread amongst so many units that 10 free razorbacks wouldn't be as much of a problem. The high amount of ignores jink shots and the ignores cover 7" pie plate would be nasty for scatbikes, ravenwing and whitescars and there are plenty of tl shots to worry flyers. Knights shields would easily be bypassed unless they stayed on the back line (even then...) whilst wraithknights are faced with so much rending and st8 ap3 or 2 shots that they would be bricking it.
Necron Wraiths and Thunderwolf Cavalry would provide a problem, but they would struggle to catch their points worth in the case of TWC most of the game due to the speed of the list.

Ok, new rule. Let's not use forge world models

Why? 7th is the kitchen sink edition, everything is legal.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Why? 7th is the kitchen sink edition, everything is legal.

It's a great question, but the crappy answer is the BA community on Dakka is so self-loathing that they demand all BA players to only make use of codex BA units. Anything less is a declaration of the codex's impotence.

No other community is so harsh on itself. Must be something about the purity of the blood...

Forge world is fine. It just doesn't help that much.

 Voidwraith wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Why? 7th is the kitchen sink edition, everything is legal.

It's a great question, but the crappy answer is the BA community on Dakka is so self-loathing that they demand all BA players to only make use of codex BA units. Anything less is a declaration of the codex's impotence.

No other community is so harsh on itself. Must be something about the purity of the blood...

+1000. I agree with Voidwraiths assessment of many members of the BA community here on Dakka. I also really like his pointed humor to end the post which plays off the fluff of the BA and still brings home his central point.

If its not BA, why am I playing BA?

Voidwraith wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Why? 7th is the kitchen sink edition, everything is legal.

It's a great question, but the crappy answer is the BA community on Dakka is so self-loathing that they demand all BA players to only make use of codex BA units. Anything less is a declaration of the codex's impotence.

No other community is so harsh on itself. Must be something about the purity of the blood...

raiden wrote:If its not BA, why am I playing BA?

I'm not self-loathing. I think Raiden has the right of it. If your going to use non-BA units to fix the power level, why bother using BAs at all? It's like building a house on sand. If your happy playing red white scars/iron hands, well more power to you. Just realize not everyone is, and some will choose to not be quiet about it. Hate on all you want. The Chaplains will be along shortly.

They are actually BA units though as much as they are any other marine unit.

Not talking about using grav devs or TFCs.

That I don't have a problem with. I'm just tired of BA armies with few BAs in them.

The main problem I have with FW is its another expensive book I have to buy to keep updated. Not certain I want to keep chasing that dragon.

Well I was thinking about some SM allies, Sentinals of Terra for GravTurions and a TFC, but with the release of the Quad Mortar not sure if it's needed as much.

Looking into Librarian Conclave formation with White Scars for Hit and Run, so I can keep making use of BA Detachment and Furious Charge. Of course having Invisible/ 4+ FnP DC also rocks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a question though, how would you run Assault Marines? I'm definetly making them Meltasquads, but I don't know if I should take a Combi-Melta or 2x Inferno Pistols on the Sergeant? Also should they come out of a Drop Pod or Jump Packs?

I like pods, less risk and the 6" disembark is a huge help with melta.

Pods are always better, you can have them come in T1, little risk of mishaps, free storm bolter on AV12 vehicle. Those storm bolters have literally won me games. Ha-ha.

Poly Ranger wrote:


Now FW have stated in emails to myself and others that since the arrival of the new BA dex that Chaplains unlock multiple relics of the armoury. Most Tournaments seem to accept this despite it not yet being an official faq.

Citation needed...