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DISCLAIMER

Spoiler:

This will be a tactical analysis of all of the four forgeworld daemon princes, and will focus solely on their competitive aspect. I am choosing not to focus on the aesthetic or background aspect of these models.

Alternatively, this series could be titled: “A lesson on why forgeworld makes horrible daemon prince rules”


Cor’bax Utterblight, forgeworlds newest daemon prince was just released today along with the official release for the chaos knight.

Stats and Rules
Cor’bax’s rules can be found here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/C/corbax.pdf
Monstrous Creature (character) Lord of War - 355 points
WS-6, BS-3, S-6, T-8, W-7, I-9, A-4, Ld-9
Rules: Daemon of nurgle, Deep strike, Fearless, ML2 psyker (biomany and plague), Poisoned (3+), Slime trail, Gaping maw, and Noisome tide of flesh
Slime trail: units count as making a disordered charge on Cor’bax when they charge
Gaping maw: to hit rolls of 5+ have the instant death USR against infantry
Noisome tide of flesh: Assault grenades, D3 HoW hits, and when Cor’bax is removed from play, center the massive blast over him, all models suffer a poisoned (4+) hit

Analysis
Let’s compare this model to a great unclean one because he fits a similar role.
Okay, stats look like a slightly better Great Unclean one. +1 toughness, +1 w, +5 I, Fearless, and assault grenades. Not great, but pretty good. The initiative bonus and assault grenades are great, and fearless is really good compared to Instability. However, it costs 165 points more than a great unclean one and cannot take rewards. The only defensive boost it gets is +1W and +1 T. This creature is not a gargantuan and yet takes up the LoW slot.
For 355 points, this model is still susceptible to poisoned, sniper, and fleshbane. It has a hard time making it to combat, as standard guardsmen can pretty easily out-maneuver this creature. As well, it provides NO synergy to any other units outside of the odd psychic power

Overall Tactical Ruling: Really Bad
This model is just bad. The entire opponent’s army may just completely ignore this model and now you’re down 355 points. It can kill things in CC but has a hard time getting into combat in the first place. Outside of CC, it provides no other benefit to your army. If it’s out of cover, it has only a 5+ save. Anything that can reliably wound it (Fleshbane, poisoned, sniper) will take this creature down with ease. It is over costed and underpowered; there are things in the Daemon book that can do a better job for almost half the points. For example, take a great unclean one with 2x greater rewards to better its defensive capabilities. Or take one with the grimoire or portalglyph to benefit your army’s flexibility. Just don’t take this model in a competitive setting.

On the next edition:
Samus, the Daemon prince of the Ruinstrom, tactical analysis

Alternatively titled:
Samus, the daemon prince of “why does he have a 5+ save and cost almost 400 points?”

Yep pretty much,. Laughably over costed. Make you cry compared to a wraithknight.

I'm glad you think so.

But WHY would forgeworld not make this creature gargantuan.... That might make him useable!

FnP, almost Immune to poisoned and sniper, EW, Stomps, and a 12" move!

That would make so much sense given his price cost, and might actually make him useable. Seriously...

I still don't understand why they haven't made them GC. They cost a crap ton of points and can get instant gibbed by a 20 point model.

If they made him a GC, they would have to then compare him to the GC nurgle daemon. That would make them realize how the GC daemons are overpriced for what they have and need to overhaul them as well.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Yep pretty much,. Laughably over costed. Make you cry compared to a wraithknight.

in fairness the WK is undercosted. proably by a good 100 points

I think both Daemon Princes of the Ruinstorm need to be gargantuan creatures, with Utterblight having a MUCH improved FNP (I'm talking like 3+).

If he gets Iron Arm it's over.

You are wrong about him not buffing the army. His Warlord trait is actually pretty damn good. All units in the same detachment can re-roll 1 die on their DI tests. But it gets even better. Get this, if you roll any doubles on the Warp Storm table, then you can substitute the result with Warp Surge, which is +1 Invuln to the entire army! This also completely eliminates 1,1 and 2,2 as a harmful event for the army.

As for durability, T8 7W is no joke. Put a unit in front of him and he's getting at least 3+ cover. He makes for a great fire magnet but if you really need to, you can put the Grimoire on him or cast Invisibility (from Be'lakor).

The warlord trait is only for heresy games tho.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The warlord trait is only for heresy games tho.

No, that's not true.

In heresy games, he may be counted as a HQ choice instead of a LoW choice (then he MUST be the Warlord), but any characters can be made into your Warlord in 7th Ed.

That warlord trait is pretty amazing.

 jy2 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The warlord trait is only for heresy games tho.

No, that's not true.

In heresy games, he may be counted as a HQ choice instead of a LoW choice (then he MUST be the Warlord), but any characters can be made into your Warlord in 7th Ed.

JY2, I'd like to think that's the case because it is a pretty awesome trait, but here are the rules

Cor’bax may also be used in standard games of Warhammer 40,000 as part of a Codex: Chaos Daemons army as a Lords of War choice, but in this later incarnation does not have access to the Lord of the Ruinstorm special rule.

And the lord of the ruinstorm:

Cor’bax Utterblight is a Lords of War choice for a Codex: Chaos Daemons army. If Cor’bax Utterblight is selected in an army which uses Codex: Chaos Daemons as its Primary Detachment in Age of Darkness games, Cor’bax Utterblight may be counted as a HQ choice rather than as a Lords of War choice. If this is the case, then Cor’bax Utterblight must be the army’s Warlord and has the following Warlord trait rather than rolling to determine a trait.

So yeah it would be a great warlord trait, but he does not have access to it due to the last sentence in the lord of ruinstorm rule "Cor'Bax... may be counted as an HQ choice rather than a Lords of War choice... If this is the case, then Cor'Bax must be the army's warlord and has the following Warlord trait"

And unfortunately there is a restriction on not being able to use the lord if ruinstorm rule

thisisnotpancho wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The warlord trait is only for heresy games tho.

No, that's not true.

In heresy games, he may be counted as a HQ choice instead of a LoW choice (then he MUST be the Warlord), but any characters can be made into your Warlord in 7th Ed.

JY2, I'd like to think that's the case because it is a pretty awesome trait, but here are the rules

Cor’bax may also be used in standard games of Warhammer 40,000 as part of a Codex: Chaos Daemons army as a Lords of War choice, but in this later incarnation does not have access to the Lord of the Ruinstorm special rule.

And the lord of the ruinstorm:

Cor’bax Utterblight is a Lords of War choice for a Codex: Chaos Daemons army. If Cor’bax Utterblight is selected in an army which uses Codex: Chaos Daemons as its Primary Detachment in Age of Darkness games, Cor’bax Utterblight may be counted as a HQ choice rather than as a Lords of War choice. If this is the case, then Cor’bax Utterblight must be the army’s Warlord and has the following Warlord trait rather than rolling to determine a trait.

So yeah it would be a great warlord trait, but he does not have access to it due to the last sentence in the lord of ruinstorm rule "Cor'Bax... may be counted as an HQ choice rather than a Lords of War choice... If this is the case, then Cor'Bax must be the army's warlord and has the following Warlord trait"

And unfortunately there is a restriction on not being able to use the lord if ruinstorm rule

Lol. What sloppy GW writing.

All that restriction really says is that you cannot use him as an HQ choice. It says nothing about you not being able to choose him as a Warlord (any characters can be a Warlord in 7th) or that he does not have access to the Daemon Prince of the Ruinstorm special rule. Because if you're going to assume that Daemon Prince of the Ruinstorm is a sub-rule to the Lord of the Ruinstorm "rule", then you've got to assume that Psyker, Gaping Maw and Noisome Tide of Flesh are all sub-rules as well. Thus, if you don't get 1, then you don't get all of those rules in regular games of 40K.

Like I said, sloppy writing.

No its not.

They don't say he CAN'T be warlord in 40k, he just not getting the rule making him HQ and forcing him to be warlord, nor the specific trait if he is.

It's written just fine.

So you think it isn't sloppy writing when people can easily come up with different interpretations of the rule?

The Daemon Prince of Ruinstorm is its own separate rule with its own heading, just as Psyker and Gaping Maw are their own separate rules. Sure lord of the Ruinstorm ties into Daemon Prince of Ruinstorm special rule, but excluding it does not exclude the DPoR special rule/WL trait. If the rules were one and the same then I'd agree. But they are different.

So like I said, sloppy writing to lead to different interpretations.

He would actually be brutally useful in cities of death, his bulk would take up a big chunk of a street and he could soak up damage like a monster if you can sustain iron arm.

I'm serious here if you could maintain it only a really ugly hit by a s10 or a sD could bring him to the ground. And even if you did he's done his job your army is free to press on.

In reality he would be pretty useful against a guy with whirlwind squadrons. Because of his size getting him physically next to a critical unit would mean he could take the pinning checks for your other unit who might have low leadership.

He's actually got a lot of value it's just that the applications stand beyond conventional 40k tables

 ionusx wrote:

He's actually got a lot of value it's just that the applications stand beyond conventional 40k tables

That's fair; this analysis is solely for conventional 40k games

thisisnotpancho wrote:

 ionusx wrote:

He's actually got a lot of value it's just that the applications stand beyond conventional 40k tables

That's fair; this analysis is solely for conventional 40k games

An important point would have to be his use in HH games though, since he we made for 30k first and foremost in mind.