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That's where playing the game comes in! If your opponent brought 50% warmachines then their other troops will be pretty lacking, so you will have a significant edge in melee. At that point it will be up to you to play the better game.
So, as the grand alliance books and other releases roll on, the division of warscrolls on the PPC site based on the old armies is becoming increasingly obsolete. Since we should have all the grand alliance books soon, perhaps we can start discussing a better layout?
For Chaos, I am thinking this may work better:
-Beasts and Monsters (beastmen and the various chaos monsters & dragon ogres, as well as the war mammoth and giant spawn from Mr T's horde)
-Undivided (slaves to darkness, unaligned daemons, varanguard, archaeon, nightmaw, sayl)
-Forces of Khorne (all the mortal and daemon Khorne stuff)
-Forces of Tzeentch (tzeentch mortals and daemons, including gaunt summoner)
-Forces of Nurgle (nurgle mortals and daemons, including the rest of T's horde)
-Forces of Slaanesh (well GW did this for us already!)
-Skaven (everything skaven)
-Legion of Azgorh (because they don't quite fit in undivided)
Death should probably have Vampire Counts renamed "forces of death" or something, in anticipation of future releases. Tomb Kings can keep their own file, because we remember them.
Destruction is pending a grand alliance book, but I am thinking that doing Ogres, Big'Uns (Orruks, trolls, giant), and Grots (goblins and associated creatures) would be a good idea.
As for Order, we'll have to see when the grand alliance book comes out, since we know there will be a decent amount cut and reorganized.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/23 19:38:32
I'm all for making this kind of change, will be good for next update - by then GW might have released even more stuff that makes the categoreizing easier.
Let's keep this open, it's enough if we decide sometime during april.
Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?
The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!
Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!
-Stormcast (Extremis included)
-Humans
-Aelves
-Duradin (but not Fyreslayers)
-Seraphon
With Order it will be particularly important to subdivide the documents to create a separate "legacy" section for the old warscrolls. There have been enough scrolls cut that I wonder if it would be worth creating a document just to contain legacy Order warscrolls.
With Order it will be particularly important to subdivide the documents to create a separate "legacy" section for the old warscrolls. There have been enough scrolls cut that I wonder if it would be worth creating a document just to contain legacy Order warscrolls.
I think it will be for the best as people need to have it clear what is what.
Perhaps a Legacy document can be made that will include Legacy units from all 4 Grand Alliances in their own category each. So with only one pdf we can have all the oldies packed together.
Hey everyone, with terrain costed and battalions mostly so, I thought I might move on to one of the few things that isn't; Times of War. A player may purchase a Time of War with their army, in which case that Time of War will be in play during games with that army. If multiple players brought Times of War then all of those effects will apply (though multiple instances of the same Time of War don't stack). Enjoy!
Storm of Sigmar - 125 pts. Note you may only summon 100 points of models with the granted ability.
Brimstone Peninsula - 100 pts. Fun stuff, but with many missile weapons having such short range the LoS blocking and wound bonus isn't significant.
The Jotenberg Vortex - 175 ots
Nulahmia - 100 pts, plus 50 for every Ophidian Archway in your army.
Hanging Valleys of Anvrock - 605 pts. I am assuming that players will build their army to specifically accommodate this.
Blasted Wastes- 95 pts. I don't have access to this one, so a bit more guesswork than normal.
Blasted Wastes II - 160 pts. Ditto with the above.
Rotwater Blight - 5 pts. The benefits here are pretty specific, and even Nurgle doesn't benefit in a relevant way.
The Greenglades - 15 pts. I don;t think this one brings much benefit either.
Burning Catacombs - 958 pts. This is really the value that felt right.
The Great Sorcerer 5d6 pts. Keeping with the Great Chnger's theme, the value of this will change each game!
Mount Kronus - XXX pts. "XXX" in this case equals the last three digits of pi, so that shouldn't be a problem for anyone to remember.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Hey everyone, with terrain costed and battalions mostly so, I thought I might move on to one of the few things that isn't; Times of War. A player may purchase a Time of War with their army, in which case that Time of War will be in play during games with that army. If multiple players brought Times of War then all of those effects will apply (though multiple instances of the same Time of War don't stack). Enjoy!
Storm of Sigmar - 125 pts. Note you may only summon 100 points of models with the granted ability.
Brimstone Peninsula - 100 pts. Fun stuff, but with many missile weapons having such short range the LoS blocking and wound bonus isn't significant.
The Jotenberg Vortex - 175 ots
Nulahmia - 100 pts, plus 50 for every Ophidian Archway in your army.
Hanging Valleys of Anvrock - 605 pts. I am assuming that players will build their army to specifically accommodate this.
Blasted Wastes- 95 pts. I don't have access to this one, so a bit more guesswork than normal.
Blasted Wastes II - 160 pts. Ditto with the above.
Rotwater Blight - 5 pts. The benefits here are pretty specific, and even Nurgle doesn't benefit in a relevant way.
The Greenglades - 15 pts. I don;t think this one brings much benefit either.
Burning Catacombs - 958 pts. This is really the value that felt right.
The Great Sorcerer 5d6 pts. Keeping with the Great Chnger's theme, the value of this will change each game!
Mount Kronus - XXX pts. "XXX" in this case equals the last three digits of pi, so that shouldn't be a problem for anyone to remember.
This is very interesting! I haven't delved into the Times of War at all, but adding this as variation could be really cool!
Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?
The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!
Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!
NinthMusketeer wrote: Hey everyone, with terrain costed and battalions mostly so, I thought I might move on to one of the few things that isn't; Times of War. A player may purchase a Time of War with their army, in which case that Time of War will be in play during games with that army. If multiple players brought Times of War then all of those effects will apply (though multiple instances of the same Time of War don't stack). Enjoy!
Storm of Sigmar - 125 pts. Note you may only summon 100 points of models with the granted ability.
Blasted Wastes- 95 pts. I don't have access to this one, so a bit more guesswork than normal.
Blasted Wastes II - 160 pts. Ditto with the above.
I'm a bit confused by charging points for Times of War? Storm of Sigmar, for example, gives both armies the ability to summon.
Also, please note that there are two Times of War each in Blasted Wastes (Foundry of Rage, Putrefax Sump) and Blasted Wastes II (Mount Hedon, Crystalline Shores).
In order to make them easier to find, here are all the point-costed battalions that are not yet on the main website. I'll keep this post current until the next PPC update.
Spoiler:
[Beastmen] Wildstalker Brayherd - 250 pts.
[Undivided] Overlords of Chaos - 175 pts, or 75 if not rolling for initiative.
[Undivided] Godsworn Champions of Ruin - 125 pts.
[Undivided] Godswrath Warband - 200 pts, +15 per unit beyond the minimum.
[Undivided] Ruinbringer Warband - 75 pts.
[Undivided] Archaeon's Grand Host - 85 pts. The Daemonic Pacts ability can only summon up to 100 points at a time. Sidenote: if someone plays this send me a picture of it!
[Undivided] Infernal Tetrarchy - 225 pts. Instead of using the summoning spell from a daemon's warscroll, use PPC's 'The Grand Invocation' (you do not need to pay additional points for its use in the battalion bonus -- this is already factored into the cost).
[Khorne] Goreblade Warband - 75 pts.
[Khorne] Blood Host (Lesser) - 200 pts. This version of the battalion allows 7 to 14 units to be included.
[Khorne] Blood Host (Greater) - 300 pts. This version of the battalion allows 15 or more units.
[Khorne] Bloodmarked Warband - 265 pts.
[Khorne] Vengeful Skullhunt - 100 pts
[Khorne] Skall'Uk's Slaughterband - 175 pts.
[Khorne] Redblade Vanguard - Free.
[Tzeentch] Changehost (Lesser) - 235 pts. This version of the battalion allows 8 to 16 units to be included. This is another battalion where I am very unsure as to an appropriate cost.
[Tzeentch] Changehost (Greater) - 350 pts. This version of the battalion allows 17 or more units to be included.
[Tzeentch] Fatesworn Warband - 175 pts, +25 per Hero included after the first.
[Tzeentch] Watcher King's Horde - 250 pts
[Nurgle] Blightguard - 250 pts.
[Nurgle] Tallyband (Lesser) - 335 pts. This version of the battalion allows 6 to 12 units to be included.
[Nurgle] Tallyband (Greater) - 475 pts. This version of the battalion allows 13 or more units to be included.
[Nurgle] Plaguetouched Warband - 250 pts.
[Nurgle] Blighted Warband - 275 pts
[Nurgle] Nurgle's Deluge - 200 pts
[Nurgle] Torglug's Foulblessed - 125 pts
[Nurgle] Glugurous' Plagueband - 175 pts.
[Nurgle] Bloab's Swarmbrothers - 250 pts
[Slaanesh] Pleasurebound Warband - 150 pts.
[Slaanesh] Lascilion's Horde - 150 pts. Note that this battalion still allows one roll on the triumph table for games that are not using the major victory rules (which I suspect is all of them).
[Beastmen] Bloodscorch Wartribe - 175 pts
[Skaven] Clan Skryre - 75 pts, plus the value of Enginecovens.
-Whyrlblade Threshik - 25pts
-Gascloud Chokelung - 75pts
-Rattlegauge Warplock - 125pts
-Arkhspark Voltik - 35pts
-Gautfyre Skorch - 85pts
[Skaven] Bringers of the Rotsmog - 90pts
[Skaven] Congregation of Filth - 125pts
[Skaven] Foulrain Congregation - 200pts
[Skaven] Plaguesmog Congregation - 215pts
[Skaven] Virulent Procession - 125pts. This is in addition to the battalion costs for the Congregations of Filth.
[Skaven] Skulkers of Runestruck Pass - 300 pts
[Skaven] The Virulent Horde - 100 pts. I am pointing this with the interpretation that the mortal wound is in addition to any normal damage of the attack (and that saves will be rolled normally for that damage).
[Stormcast] Devastation Brotherhood - 200 pts
[Stormcast] Annihilation Brotherhood - 75 pts
[Stormcast] Grymn's Brotherhood - 365 pts
[Stormcast] Ecelsior Vengeful Storm - 100 pts
[Stormcast] Warrior Brotherhood - 150 pts
[Stormcast] Brotherhood of the Great Bolts - 300 pts, +25 per Vexillor/Relictor included beyond the minimum.
[Stormcast] Royal Victrians - Free. The requirements of this battalion are immense, to say the least.
[Stormcast] Hallowed Hunt - 185 pts. Note that as the rules stand, the 1d6" of movement can pull units out of combat without needing to retreat, or put them into combat without needing to charge.
[Stormcast] Drakesworn Temple - 150 pts. Its good but geeze you already paid for three of these things...
[Stormcast] Lightning Echelon - 215 pts
[Stormcast] Thunderwave Echelon - 185 pts
[Stormcast] Extremis Chamber - Free.
[Fyreslayers] Arngard's Berzerker Fyrd - 100 pts
[Fyreslayers] Lords of the Lodge - 200 pts, or 125 if not rolling for initiative.
[Fyreslayers] Warrior Kinband - 150 pts
[Fyreslayers] Forge Brethren - 225 pts. Note the wording is a bit vague here, but I am pointing it with the interpretation that only one unit may create a bulwark per turn.
[Fyreslayers] Grand Fyrd - 50 pts. The Oaths of Battle rule is ignored.
[Fyreslayers] Guardians of the Great Chain - 165 pts
[Seraphon] Gul'Rok's Starhost - 125 pts
[Seraphon] Bloodclaw Starhost - 200 pts
[Seraphon] Heavanswrath Starhost - 125 pts, +25 per monster included (or +50 if that monster is a Bastiladon).
[Seraphon] Klaq-Tor's Talons - 135 pts
[Seraphon] Eternal Starhost - 250 pts, this cost a bit more than normal because the requirements are very easy to meet for comparatively powerful bonuses.
[Seraphon] Firelance Starhost - 25 pts
[Seraphon] Shadowstrike Starhost - 200 pts, easy requirements but most of the bonus will be in a one-hit-wonder of deep strike Ripperdactyls
[Seraphon] Sunclaw Starhost - 225 pts, I anticipate people running two small units of Saurus to meet the requirements alongside one gigantic unit to benefit the most from the rend on top of +1 attack.
[Seraphon] Thunderquake Starhost - 200 pts, +100 per Bastiladon included. Note the battalion does not have to include any Bastiladons. I have also edited the Heavenwrath Starhost to include variable costing based on Bastiladons (see the master list in the other PPC thread).
[Seraphon] Starbeast Constellation - Free
[Sylvaneth] Alarielle's Heartwood Guard - 225 pts
[Sylvaneth] Forest Spirit Wargrove - 100 pts
[Human] Pilgrimage of Wrath - 100 pts
[Human] Freeguild Regiment - 75 pts
[Human] War Council - Free
[Humans] Tauroi Warclan - 50 pts, plus 25 per Warrior Priest and 75 per unit of Flagellants.
[Human/Duardin] Artillery Detachment - 75 pts
[Duradin] Grudgebound War Throng - 200 pts
[Aelf] Spyreheart Warhost - 75 pts, +25 per Phoenix included.
[Aelf] Dragonlord Host - 125 pts
[Aelf] Realm Reavers - 175 pts
[Aelf] Bloodwrack Sisterhood - 75 pts
[Aelf] Thrall Warhost - 175 pts
[Aelf] Ebondrake Warhost - 100 pts
[Aelf] Waystone Pathfinders - 200 pts
[Death] Legion of Death - 100 pts.
[Death] Neferata's Blood-Court - 175 pts
[Destruction] Sons of Behemat - 125 pts
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2016/05/07 02:32:40
I think PPC point costs monsters higher because it incorporates playtesting into its comp. On an empty field, many monsters (even without synergy abilities) are indeed worth less because they tend not to kill their points worth of models. However, monsters aren't naked beatsticks in AoS like they are in many other games because they get weaker as they take wounds. They really need proper support to be worth their value, and its when they are between two of your units or next to another monster that they really shine. A monster in melee range of 5 enemy models from a 10-man unit gets its full attack potential, while that unit only gets half of its own. This is one of the reasons I love PPC; armies without big stompy monsters can do just fine, and if one does bring a monster there is still a good amount of tactics to its use. (And for whats its worth this is coming from someone who has one or more monsters in almost all my lists.)
Most stuff won't really change I think, mostly wound-halfing models. Though I don't know if Attilla was treating 'within X"' abilities as including the source or not, that could see a larger number of small adjustments. Out of curiosity, what are you upset about? It seems like many of the answers that confirm/allow powerful options are accounted for with PPC. However it is probably worth adding to the comp rules that 6s to hit or wound will always succeed, since with same-ability stacking it becomes very easy to make a unit's attacks need 7+ or worse to hit.
I don't want to bring negativity into such a great thread but I thought the clarification about bringing multiple same-named characters was just such a poor move, not even to do with balance just shows a general disregard for the game I've been playing for 20 years. They just want people to spend a lot of money on expensive hero models and field them.
I thought the cannon/crew thing is still weird to me, although I blame Lord Kroak and globals for that.
Also allowing double stacking buffs, it all leads to game breaking rather than well defined rules.
Either way, my group of friends have been having a small round-robin tournament with PPC in its current form with some house rules and we've had some epic-ally close games. Down to less than 5 models in each army. It's been fantastic so again my thanks goes out to everyone here.
So GW has announced they will be releasing point values this summer! I actually think this will be neutral or possibly good for PPC. If GW releases points and they are terrible (likely) then it may at least pull new players into AoS, who are likely to go over to PPC's points when they realize GW's shortcomings. If they release competent costs, then it will at least act as a filter for comps overall, acting to get rid of the ones that don't work very well. That could potentially bring the focus onto the better comps (Azyr, SGCT and PPC from the looks of it) and keep interest going. Of course, the worst case scenario could happen where people abandon PPC for GW's values but fwiw I'll still be using PPC and I'm sure enough others will too that it'll keep going.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So GW has announced they will be releasing point values this summer! I actually think this will be neutral or possibly good for PPC. If GW releases points and they are terrible (likely) then it may at least pull new players into AoS, who are likely to go over to PPC's points when they realize GW's shortcomings. If they release competent costs, then it will at least act as a filter for comps overall, acting to get rid of the ones that don't work very well. That could potentially bring the focus onto the better comps (Azyr, SGCT and PPC from the looks of it) and keep interest going. Of course, the worst case scenario could happen where people abandon PPC for GW's values but fwiw I'll still be using PPC and I'm sure enough others will too that it'll keep going.
I think this is a bit naive. No matter how bad the point system of GW will become, people will flock to an official point system and make it work. Past experiences of fan-made documents have proven that. Now, that being said, I don't think GW's system will be worse or bad. It is created in partnership with the SCGT (comp) guys, which has a very good comp system. In fact, I am very optimistic
The difference is that the community comps existed first, then GW added their own. Previously it has only been fan-comps being added to the already existing points structure of GW. Its an important difference between this and past experiences. The problem with SCGT is simple; the balance is good enough, but not really good. The three winning armies really say it all; there are a few token 'troop' units put in because they are needed to win scenarios then the rest of the list is packed with characters and monsters. That will be good enough for plenty of people I'm sure, but it isn't something I'm going to bother playing when PPC is better.
The new system is not SCGT comp. That was publicly stated on the facebook yesterday. It is a system GW devised and then they invited the SCGT guys to review it.
I think Ninth is hitting the nail on the head when he says one of the things GW no doubt loved about the SCGT comp was all the big fancy monsters it catered for in competitive lists and GW are probably no doubt keen to replicate that aspect of it.
Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-)
After listening to the podcast announcement, I too wonder just how much influence they will have on the system.
It did sound more like a quick playtest of something that already exists vs. a comprehensive involvement on their part to craft a good system. A reward for the faithful?
NinthMusketeer wrote: So, as the grand alliance books and other releases roll on, the division of warscrolls on the PPC site based on the old armies is becoming increasingly obsolete. Since we should have all the grand alliance books soon, perhaps we can start discussing a better layout?
We have a proposition on this matter on the blog now. It's similar to your suggestions, but differ in some places. Instead of posting the entire long list I'll link to the blog here.
Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?
The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!
Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!
Looks great to me, I would just be inclined to split up Orruks & Grots since they are two pretty hefty factions already and it looks like they will only get bigger in the future. Maybe put Troggoths & Gargants into a single 'Monsters of Destruction' category.
Hopefully in time for the May update, Ironjawz battalions! Note the Weirdfist and Ironfist are a bit higher because of easily met requirements. The brawl has a cost because while the requirements are huge the bonus is equally so.
Brutefist - 100
Gorefist - 175
Ardfist - 125
Weirdfist - 185
Ironfist - 215
Brawl - 100
[edit] Also hopefully in time for the May update, I have gone back through battalions I previously posted and lowered the cost of many of the higher-priced ones (factored into the spoiler list above).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/07 02:33:40
