Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Since space marine players continually think terminators need buffed...please first buff my MegaNobz to be as good as space marine terminators. That is all.

In all seriousness...just FAQ them a 6++ at least, you can keep the 5 pts less, 5++, deepstrike, ATSKNF, chapter tactics, combat squads, and better upgrade options aka storm shields.

You do realize that 2 wounds is better against anything that's not S8+ than a 5++, yes? It's not like a lot of people are asking for buffs to the TH/SS Terminators, it's all the rest of the options that are rubbish. Meganobz need a buff, I'm completely on board with that, but you're not going to reach a reasonable conclusion if you start comparing them to all types of Terminators at the same time. Meganobz are already better than shooty Terminators, for example.

Ahh, Cybork bodies man...

They just need to be cheaper by about 2-8 points. 2W already puts in a lot of work.

Or be T5 and on par with Wraiths/Centurions but T5 is reserved for Warbosses

Actually, T5 would make sense for Meganobz IMO. They're the dead 'ardest Orks there are aside from the Warbosses themselves, and the Warbosses would still have that extra wound to make them a little 'arder. Plus, it helps protect against ID from S8.

I think Meganobz are fine, their main problem is how terrible mob rule is (a problem across the board for Orks) and we can see how good Bully Boyz are with their fearless.

It would be nice if Orks had an upgrade called "Meaner and Greener" which gives +1 T and can be taken by Nobz, Meganobz, Big Meks, and Warbosses. Not stacking with bikes increased toughness. Even if its just for the Warboss so a Mega Armored Warboss could have T6.

I disagree that MegaNobz are fine. With the way the game handles shooting its just too easy for any given S8 AP2 pie plate tosser to deliver instant death nosaves destruction onto a unit like this. Terminators are gak in much the same way, and the answer was better invulns and/or points decreases. MegaNobz should get much the same - and since Orks can't have invulns because lol they should get considerably cheaper.

An invuln save would be great, but T5 and fearless are really what they need. Even if you leave them at 40 points they would be quite good then. I would also just take meganobz trading all their rules for space marine terminator rules with their current statline and 1 less wound. Their rules and stats matter, but the real difference between the two is Trukks at a DT for meganobz, its the only reason they are playable. They could really use some love though when it comes to being extremely expensive models that...aren't fearless with a low morale and no invuln-save.

I think in general the Ork faction needs to regain some kind of actual Invul save as the only one we have is the KFF and is only good against shooting attacks.

As for Meganobz? Nobz should drop 5pts a model and Mega Nobz should be 10pts a model cheaper. Furthermore, Orks need to regain the Cybork body giving a 5+ FNP instead of a 6+. As it stands I don't know a single person to ever use the stupid thing

Also it would be nice if Meganobz could get access to more dakka. Atm the only way to equip them is either with Combi Skorchas or forget their shooting entirely.

T5 and Fearless, or at least Stubborn, doesn't feel out of place for what is essentially a walking pile of armor. There's a lot of weapons that are S8 or S9, but S10 is much harder to come by in numbers (and then there's Eldar, but they're an issue of their own), so T5 to avoid the weakness to doubling out would mean that an invulnerable save might not even be needed.

The thing is Meganobz are 2+ armor and 2W with 3 (4 charging) attacks with a Power Klaw. In terms of raw damage output they are absolute monsters. The problem is Orks are designed around this setup of individual Orks being bad at things and being the narrative punching bags for the "good guys" to overcome. The strength of Orks is numbers and forcing the enemy to use suboptimal weapons to try and cut through the Ork numbers. Where meganobz fit into this is by being the hammerblow to the boyz anvil with the soon to be dead gitz inbetween. Meganobz are not the type of unit to charge into the middle of an elite deathstar packing tons of AP2 weapons. Meganobz should be charging into already engaged combat and chew through their ranks while the boyz clog them up. Meganobz also have the benefit of being very resilient to non AP2 weapons so they can soak an entire tac squads worth of attacks and then crew them up. Manz missiles are a really good distraction and pressure units that force the enemy to deal with them or have something get crushed which can buy time for your other units to get to where they need.

The thing is buffing the durability of Meganobz would require them to be more expensive which can take away from their great damage to points ratio. T5 or a 5+ invuln save won't really make them all that much better vs the nasty melee deathstars or Str 10 MCs/Walkers that tend to 1 shot them anyways. Ork moral in general needs to be fixed which would help put meganobz in a better place. Mega Armor giving fearless would be a nice buff to fix their biggest short coming (and benefit Big Meks and Warbosses). Eternal warrior would be great but GW is really stingy on giving out that special rule as of late.

Rather then play with their stats. I'd simply like there to be a Heavy weapon options for them. A supa shoota that sits over the shoulder. Something to take advantage of their slow and purposeful. It's always bugged me that they didn't have a heavy option.

Drop them the 5 points each that terminators just got, and add 1 wound to every boss nob in the army to show how close they are to warboss strength. That gives them an extra wound per unit right off the rip, and gives you every 7th model free.

Mob rule does WAY better for them now than it used to. You never wanted that many manz because they were hard to transport. Now they can run in min sized squads without any serious fears. (Really, how many meganobs are you losing to d6 str4 ap- hits?)

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Drop them the 5 points each that terminators just got, and add 1 wound to every boss nob in the army to show how close they are to warboss strength. That gives them an extra wound per unit right off the rip, and gives you every 7th model free.

Mob rule does WAY better for them now than it used to. You never wanted that many manz because they were hard to transport. Now they can run in min sized squads without any serious fears. (Really, how many meganobs are you losing to d6 str4 ap- hits?)

Mob rule helping them out a bit more now doesn't compensate for the fact that the old mob rule didn't help at all and the new one only helps slightly.

The thing is, the old mob rule only really helped large blob Ork players. I've always run mine msu style with eavy armor in trukks. The old mob rule did almost nothing for me after turn one because casualties would start creeping in and my leadership would drop. Now, I just take a couple hits and move on most of the time. Never understood all the rage really. You can run big piles of boyz with a pain boy or bigmek for durability increase, I get to run ardboyz in trukks without being handicapped because I want better instead of more bodies. Made sense to me...

What I fear with manz missile is the inevitable pinning test they will have to pass once the trukk is wrecked or destroyed.
50% of the time they will fail it, and somehow my dice never got that 2 or 3 on mob rule roll, even with reroll.
Pinned manz will completely screw the purpose.

Fearless is the thing here, definitely.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The thing is, the old mob rule only really helped large blob Ork players. I've always run mine msu style with eavy armor in trukks. The old mob rule did almost nothing for me after turn one because casualties would start creeping in and my leadership would drop. Now, I just take a couple hits and move on most of the time. Never understood all the rage really. You can run big piles of boyz with a pain boy or bigmek for durability increase, I get to run ardboyz in trukks without being handicapped because I want better instead of more bodies. Made sense to me...

Leadership 7 means you have a 50/50 to pass. Mob rule means you have a 1/3 chance to pass. If your boyz are in a trukk and it inevitably explodes then you are probably under 10 models. If your not then in 1 turn you will be because they get shot to crap and now the Mob Rule table only helps you on a 2 or a 3. So the new Mob rule is SLIGHTLY! and I have to emphasize this SLIGHTLY! better then the old mob rule and only for small units. For big blobs its a huge nerf.

But back to Meganobz. Fearlessness would help but the biggest problem I encounter with them is that they are 1 shot wonders. You cant really call them glass cannons with all that armor but that is what they are. Ohh know the meganobz are coming...3 lascannon shots later.....never mind. and their goes the better part of 200pts.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The thing is, the old mob rule only really helped large blob Ork players. I've always run mine msu style with eavy armor in trukks. The old mob rule did almost nothing for me after turn one because casualties would start creeping in and my leadership would drop. Now, I just take a couple hits and move on most of the time. Never understood all the rage really. You can run big piles of boyz with a pain boy or bigmek for durability increase, I get to run ardboyz in trukks without being handicapped because I want better instead of more bodies. Made sense to me...

Leadership 7 means you have a 50/50 to pass. Mob rule means you have a 1/3 chance to pass. If your boyz are in a trukk and it inevitably explodes then you are probably under 10 models. If your not then in 1 turn you will be because they get shot to crap and now the Mob Rule table only helps you on a 2 or a 3. So the new Mob rule is SLIGHTLY! and I have to emphasize this SLIGHTLY! better then the old mob rule and only for small units. For big blobs its a huge nerf.

But back to Meganobz. Fearlessness would help but the biggest problem I encounter with them is that they are 1 shot wonders. You cant really call them glass cannons with all that armor but that is what they are. Ohh know the meganobz are coming...3 lascannon shots later.....never mind. and their goes the better part of 200pts.

Ghazkuul, you overestimate the damage mob rule does to the unit. Keep in mind the amount of wounds done to the unit is random, not to mention only strength 4 AP- hits. There will be just as many cases where you roll a 1 for how many hits you suffer as much as you may unfortunately roll a 6 and even then on average you will only suffer 3 wounds if you do suffer 6 S4 AP- hits. This is then further mitigated by any armour or FNP your unit may have. So is it really that devastating for big blobs? I presume you don't avoid taking the ubiquitous Painboy on most of your boyz units. Furthermore, you again fail to notice that the old mob rule was written during a time (as I mentioned in other ork threads in this sub forum) where you suffered wounds for losing in combat when you were fearless, this often meant you outright suffered 8-15 wounds depending on how badly your opponent beat you, which I find to be much more penalizing than the Mob Rule we have today where we at least have to roll to see how many wounds we suffered.

Regarding Mega Nobz, that's sort of their role. They are bullies. As with much of the Ork army most of our units excel in preying on weak units that aren't optimized to face them which I honestly find refreshing compared to the faceroll units of other armies like Eldar and Necrons where they are often quite literally point and click in their usage. That's why the MANZ missile is so great is because its cost efficient yet enough of a threat that it can easily delete backfield units if not taken care of and in your example where someone is pointing 3 lascannons to kill them, that my friend is a win. That is 3 more lascannons not aiming at a more suitable target. And if you don't have one you clearly need to work on threat saturation.

Personally, I would be fine for a minor decrease in points for Mega Nobz. Other than that I figure they're fine as is. I would agree however with ProwlerPC in having a heavy weapons version of them. It would better reflect some of the Ork Klans like Badmoons where they prioritize dakka over just CC prowess. Furthermore, I think they should have at least Ld8, as should all Nobz. It's just GW's usual lazy copy and paste that leads to so many stat repetitions (look at marines) and Nobz should logically be at least Ld8 since they are the ones who take over after the warboss dies. Hell if they Nobz flat out gave stubborn in conjunction with that it would solve the issue of smaller units being able to handle casualties more easily in combat and make it so people that dislike mob rule can avoid rolling on the table.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The thing is, the old mob rule only really helped large blob Ork players. I've always run mine msu style with eavy armor in trukks. The old mob rule did almost nothing for me after turn one because casualties would start creeping in and my leadership would drop. Now, I just take a couple hits and move on most of the time. Never understood all the rage really. You can run big piles of boyz with a pain boy or bigmek for durability increase, I get to run ardboyz in trukks without being handicapped because I want better instead of more bodies. Made sense to me...

Leadership 7 means you have a 50/50 to pass. Mob rule means you have a 1/3 chance to pass. If your boyz are in a trukk and it inevitably explodes then you are probably under 10 models. If your not then in 1 turn you will be because they get shot to crap and now the Mob Rule table only helps you on a 2 or a 3. So the new Mob rule is SLIGHTLY! and I have to emphasize this SLIGHTLY! better then the old mob rule and only for small units. For big blobs its a huge nerf.

But back to Meganobz. Fearlessness would help but the biggest problem I encounter with them is that they are 1 shot wonders. You cant really call them glass cannons with all that armor but that is what they are. Ohh know the meganobz are coming...3 lascannon shots later.....never mind. and their goes the better part of 200pts.

Ghazkuul, you overestimate the damage mob rule does to the unit. Keep in mind the amount of wounds done to the unit is random, not to mention only strength 4 AP- hits. There will be just as many cases where you roll a 1 for how many hits you suffer as much as you may unfortunately roll a 6 and even then on average you will only suffer 3 wounds if you do suffer 6 S4 AP- hits. This is then further mitigated by any armour or FNP your unit may have. So is it really that devastating for big blobs? I presume you don't avoid taking the ubiquitous Painboy on most of your boyz units. Furthermore, you again fail to notice that the old mob rule was written during a time (as I mentioned in other ork threads in this sub forum) where you suffered wounds for losing in combat when you were fearless, this often meant you outright suffered 8-15 wounds depending on how badly your opponent beat you, which I find to be much more penalizing than the Mob Rule we have today where we at least have to roll to see how many wounds we suffered.

Regarding Mega Nobz, that's sort of their role. They are bullies. As with much of the Ork army most of our units excel in preying on weak units that aren't optimized to face them which I honestly find refreshing compared to the faceroll units of other armies like Eldar and Necrons where they are often quite literally point and click in their usage. That's why the MANZ missile is so great is because its cost efficient yet enough of a threat that it can easily delete backfield units if not taken care of and in your example where someone is pointing 3 lascannons to kill them, that my friend is a win. That is 3 more lascannons not aiming at a more suitable target. And if you don't have one you clearly need to work on threat saturation.

Personally, I would be fine for a minor decrease in points for Mega Nobz. Other than that I figure they're fine as is. I would agree however with ProwlerPC in having a heavy weapons version of them. It would better reflect some of the Ork Klans like Badmoons where they prioritize dakka over just CC prowess. Furthermore, I think they should have at least Ld8, as should all Nobz. It's just GW's usual lazy copy and paste that leads to so many stat repetitions (look at marines) and Nobz should logically be at least Ld8 since they are the ones who take over after the warboss dies. Hell if they Nobz flat out gave stubborn in conjunction with that it would solve the issue of smaller units being able to handle casualties more easily in combat and make it so people that dislike mob rule can avoid rolling on the table.

Grim nowhere did I even mention the casualties that happen because of the new Mob Rule format, I was pointing out that for small mobs, as soon as you go under 10 models then you lose most of the benefits from the new mob rule table because now you only have a character and not 10 models, the casualties I was talking about is from a Trukk exploding (which happens all the time since its open topped) which usually kills a handful of boyz even with eavy armor. So saying that the new Mob rule is good is a lot like saying the new version of AIDS is better then the old one because now you only die after 5 years instead of dragging it on for 10.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The thing is, the old mob rule only really helped large blob Ork players. I've always run mine msu style with eavy armor in trukks.

I'm curious as to how you ran MSU orks with 'eavy armor in trukks whilst utilizing the old Mob Rule.

Especially given the codex we had just under (over?) a year ago prevented you from taking 'Eavy' armor on more than one unit of boyz per army.

I ran my other troops units as nobz with eavy armor also (multiple war bosses) and my collection of Orks increased significantly with the new book.

The way I see it, they made the new mob rule the way it is because of the speed increase all the Ork units got. Giving them all half of fleet, and a once per game old school style fleet is pretty dramatic in regards to gap closing capability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ran my other troops units as nobz with eavy armor also (multiple war bosses) and my collection of Orks increased significantly with the new book.

The way I see it, they made the new mob rule the way it is because of the speed increase all the Ork units got. Giving them all half of fleet, and a once per game old school style fleet is pretty dramatic in regards to gap closing capability.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The thing is, the old mob rule only really helped large blob Ork players. I've always run mine msu style with eavy armor in trukks. The old mob rule did almost nothing for me after turn one because casualties would start creeping in and my leadership would drop. Now, I just take a couple hits and move on most of the time. Never understood all the rage really. You can run big piles of boyz with a pain boy or bigmek for durability increase, I get to run ardboyz in trukks without being handicapped because I want better instead of more bodies. Made sense to me...

Leadership 7 means you have a 50/50 to pass. Mob rule means you have a 1/3 chance to pass. If your boyz are in a trukk and it inevitably explodes then you are probably under 10 models. If your not then in 1 turn you will be because they get shot to crap and now the Mob Rule table only helps you on a 2 or a 3. So the new Mob rule is SLIGHTLY! and I have to emphasize this SLIGHTLY! better then the old mob rule and only for small units. For big blobs its a huge nerf.

But back to Meganobz. Fearlessness would help but the biggest problem I encounter with them is that they are 1 shot wonders. You cant really call them glass cannons with all that armor but that is what they are. Ohh know the meganobz are coming...3 lascannon shots later.....never mind. and their goes the better part of 200pts.

Ghazkuul, you overestimate the damage mob rule does to the unit. Keep in mind the amount of wounds done to the unit is random, not to mention only strength 4 AP- hits. There will be just as many cases where you roll a 1 for how many hits you suffer as much as you may unfortunately roll a 6 and even then on average you will only suffer 3 wounds if you do suffer 6 S4 AP- hits. This is then further mitigated by any armour or FNP your unit may have. So is it really that devastating for big blobs? I presume you don't avoid taking the ubiquitous Painboy on most of your boyz units. Furthermore, you again fail to notice that the old mob rule was written during a time (as I mentioned in other ork threads in this sub forum) where you suffered wounds for losing in combat when you were fearless, this often meant you outright suffered 8-15 wounds depending on how badly your opponent beat you, which I find to be much more penalizing than the Mob Rule we have today where we at least have to roll to see how many wounds we suffered.

Regarding Mega Nobz, that's sort of their role. They are bullies. As with much of the Ork army most of our units excel in preying on weak units that aren't optimized to face them which I honestly find refreshing compared to the faceroll units of other armies like Eldar and Necrons where they are often quite literally point and click in their usage. That's why the MANZ missile is so great is because its cost efficient yet enough of a threat that it can easily delete backfield units if not taken care of and in your example where someone is pointing 3 lascannons to kill them, that my friend is a win. That is 3 more lascannons not aiming at a more suitable target. And if you don't have one you clearly need to work on threat saturation.

Personally, I would be fine for a minor decrease in points for Mega Nobz. Other than that I figure they're fine as is. I would agree however with ProwlerPC in having a heavy weapons version of them. It would better reflect some of the Ork Klans like Badmoons where they prioritize dakka over just CC prowess. Furthermore, I think they should have at least Ld8, as should all Nobz. It's just GW's usual lazy copy and paste that leads to so many stat repetitions (look at marines) and Nobz should logically be at least Ld8 since they are the ones who take over after the warboss dies. Hell if they Nobz flat out gave stubborn in conjunction with that it would solve the issue of smaller units being able to handle casualties more easily in combat and make it so people that dislike mob rule can avoid rolling on the table.

Grim nowhere did I even mention the casualties that happen because of the new Mob Rule format, I was pointing out that for small mobs, as soon as you go under 10 models then you lose most of the benefits from the new mob rule table because now you only have a character and not 10 models, the casualties I was talking about is from a Trukk exploding (which happens all the time since its open topped) which usually kills a handful of boyz even with eavy armor. So saying that the new Mob rule is good is a lot like saying the new version of AIDS is better then the old one because now you only die after 5 years instead of dragging it on for 10.

You heavily implied it given that you said "For big blobs its a huge nerf", that plus you mentioned as such in previous posts about your dissatisfaction about mob rule before so I assume you haven't changed your position since then. And honestly, I'm surprised if trukks explode as often as you claim them to be. With the new vehicle damage table you need 6's to make them go kablooey for non AP1-2 weapons and in the case where they do get shot by AP1-2 shots that's stuff that isn't aimed at more threatening units like tankbustas in battlewagons. Meltaguns have to get close to blow them up which is where our orks generally want them to be anyways. Stuff like lascannons or railguns are typically mounted far away enough so we can grab either cover via other vehicles we have or stay out of line sight for first turn by hugging terrain. Then we have the ramshackle rule on top of that if pen's do get through, it may be marginal but it has made a difference for my trukks. More often than not I notice that most of my trukks are just glanced to death via the high level of dakka (scatbikes and HYMP broadsides hooooo!) present in today's meta which means at most I take a pinning test for my largely unharmed Orks when they pop out of the Trukk. Plus that's why you always take 4 or more IMO, you either go all in or none at all.

Orks not being overly brave in small numbers makes sense though no? The essence of Mob Rule, as stated in the previous dex, is how their psychology and morale is directly linked to number of boyz around them in any given time. Short of having a Nob/Warboss attempting to keep order this would mean Orks would break a lot easier so I find that Mob Rule effectively reflects the fluff. In the case of more elite units I feel that it would be better represented by specific buffs like Ld8 and stubborn being given to Nobz so that when you do go under 10 Orks you at least have no reduced Ld to take in combat if you suffer too many casualties so long as your Nob survives.

Grim I call it a huge nerf because that is what it is for Large blobs of Orks. We used to be fearless so it didn't matter. Now we lose orks to keep from running away. I hate the new Mob rule and my stance has and never will change.

However go look at the numbers on MSU which is what everyone uses to defend the new Mob Rule. The second your boyz fall under 10 models your effectively failing morale tests 2/3rds of the time. on a 1 you run, on a 4-6 you run... so where is the bonus?

As far as trukks exploding? A mob of 12 boyz with Heavy armor with a Nob BP/PK costs around 155pts put in the trukk and you have a unit around 200pts (if you give them a special weapon or not) Why wouldn't you fire a single AP1-2 weapon at the trukk to give yourself a better chance of making it explode and kill some of the boyz inside? Lascannon's have a 1/3 chance to blow up the trukk, Melta's have a 1/2 chance, Eldar Meltas have a 2/3rd chance to blow it up. If you do blow it up every ork takes a S4 hit so 6 ish wounds, 4+ armor = 3 dead orks which is 25% which means magic morale test time, at leadership 7 they will will 50% of the time and then on the mob rule table they have to roll a 2 or 3 with reroll to pass, if they fail those they suffer D6 more casualties which means average of 3ish more hits and 1-2 more dead orks. So now you have around 6 orks and a Nob left and only if they didn't fail the test and run away. Still an effective unit, don't get me wrong, but significantly less scary and realistically that unit can almost be forgotten about, maybe put some random SAF into it and call it a day.

So back on topic for meganobz, I like the idea of a Heavy weapon option for them. Maybe Deffgunz or something bigger. For morale, Mega Armor should grant Fearlessness or something because as shown above, Morale sucks for orks. Lastly, 2W is awesome and definitely makes them harder to kill, but it would be nice if they had a way of surviving PK equivalents.

Of all the ork units, meganobz are doing above average. I'd rather take a look at walkers, burnas and regular nobz.

well walkers suck in every army in this edition. 10 AV just doesn't cut it with the amount of Dakka floating around out their, that teamed with Ramshackle being destroyed for all intents and purposes means that Killa Kanz can't survive long enough to do anything productive and Deff Dreadz are even worse since the only distance weapons they have are big shootas.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Grim I call it a huge nerf because that is what it is for Large blobs of Orks. We used to be fearless so it didn't matter. Now we lose orks to keep from running away. I hate the new Mob rule and my stance has and never will change.

However go look at the numbers on MSU which is what everyone uses to defend the new Mob Rule. The second your boyz fall under 10 models your effectively failing morale tests 2/3rds of the time. on a 1 you run, on a 4-6 you run... so where is the bonus?

As far as trukks exploding? A mob of 12 boyz with Heavy armor with a Nob BP/PK costs around 155pts put in the trukk and you have a unit around 200pts (if you give them a special weapon or not) Why wouldn't you fire a single AP1-2 weapon at the trukk to give yourself a better chance of making it explode and kill some of the boyz inside? Lascannon's have a 1/3 chance to blow up the trukk, Melta's have a 1/2 chance, Eldar Meltas have a 2/3rd chance to blow it up. If you do blow it up every ork takes a S4 hit so 6 ish wounds, 4+ armor = 3 dead orks which is 25% which means magic morale test time, at leadership 7 they will will 50% of the time and then on the mob rule table they have to roll a 2 or 3 with reroll to pass, if they fail those they suffer D6 more casualties which means average of 3ish more hits and 1-2 more dead orks. So now you have around 6 orks and a Nob left and only if they didn't fail the test and run away. Still an effective unit, don't get me wrong, but significantly less scary and realistically that unit can almost be forgotten about, maybe put some random SAF into it and call it a day.

So back on topic for meganobz, I like the idea of a Heavy weapon option for them. Maybe Deffgunz or something bigger. For morale, Mega Armor should grant Fearlessness or something because as shown above, Morale sucks for orks. Lastly, 2W is awesome and definitely makes them harder to kill, but it would be nice if they had a way of surviving PK equivalents.

You answered your own question. It is a 1/3 chance of staying on the table they didn't have before. So 33% is obviously better than 0% it is also a 50% chance if they make it into combat. In regards to the blob style, your blog is significantly faster with the current ruleset over the last one. The larger the unit, the less of a problem taking d6 wounds are, and the easier it is to mitigate it with the addition of characters because most of the characters are force multipliers. The fact that the turn you WAAAAGH! every unit within about 17" is in danger. Considering the unit moved about 9" turn one your opponent has almost no chance of keeping everything away from your blob. D6 wounds means absolutely nothing to a unit of 30 boyz with feel no pain.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Grim I call it a huge nerf because that is what it is for Large blobs of Orks. We used to be fearless so it didn't matter. Now we lose orks to keep from running away. I hate the new Mob rule and my stance has and never will change.

However go look at the numbers on MSU which is what everyone uses to defend the new Mob Rule. The second your boyz fall under 10 models your effectively failing morale tests 2/3rds of the time. on a 1 you run, on a 4-6 you run... so where is the bonus?

As far as trukks exploding? A mob of 12 boyz with Heavy armor with a Nob BP/PK costs around 155pts put in the trukk and you have a unit around 200pts (if you give them a special weapon or not) Why wouldn't you fire a single AP1-2 weapon at the trukk to give yourself a better chance of making it explode and kill some of the boyz inside? Lascannon's have a 1/3 chance to blow up the trukk, Melta's have a 1/2 chance, Eldar Meltas have a 2/3rd chance to blow it up. If you do blow it up every ork takes a S4 hit so 6 ish wounds, 4+ armor = 3 dead orks which is 25% which means magic morale test time, at leadership 7 they will will 50% of the time and then on the mob rule table they have to roll a 2 or 3 with reroll to pass, if they fail those they suffer D6 more casualties which means average of 3ish more hits and 1-2 more dead orks. So now you have around 6 orks and a Nob left and only if they didn't fail the test and run away. Still an effective unit, don't get me wrong, but significantly less scary and realistically that unit can almost be forgotten about, maybe put some random SAF into it and call it a day.

So back on topic for meganobz, I like the idea of a Heavy weapon option for them. Maybe Deffgunz or something bigger. For morale, Mega Armor should grant Fearlessness or something because as shown above, Morale sucks for orks. Lastly, 2W is awesome and definitely makes them harder to kill, but it would be nice if they had a way of surviving PK equivalents.

You answered your own question. It is a 1/3 chance of staying on the table they didn't have before. So 33% is obviously better than 0% it is also a 50% chance if they make it into combat. In regards to the blob style, your blog is significantly faster with the current ruleset over the last one. The larger the unit, the less of a problem taking d6 wounds are, and the easier it is to mitigate it with the addition of characters because most of the characters are force multipliers. The fact that the turn you WAAAAGH! every unit within about 17" is in danger. Considering the unit moved about 9" turn one your opponent has almost no chance of keeping everything away from your blob. D6 wounds means absolutely nothing to a unit of 30 boyz with feel no pain.

The old rule meant you had leadership of however many orks you had, so it wasn't really a big issue until you dropped below 8 orks, then it sucked. So for your MSU it is only good after you drop below 8 orks. And then its 1/3 better then it was before. SO your wrong and how does the Run during Waaagh relate to what we were talking about? jesus stay on topic...since were off topic anyway

The Green Mob table needs to be re-worked. It's simply dumb right now, and the Ghazghull supplement breaks it even more (since giving a +2 to the result is often the result you DON'T want to have).

1 - Fail
2-3 - D6 Casualties with 10 models. Pass.
4-5 - D6 Casualties with a character. Pass.
6 - D6 Casualties regardless of number of models or character, only exception being a lone Ork still fails. Pass.

Also, allow the Boss-Pole to re-roll Fear Checks (But crucially Fear Checks shouldn't roll on the Green Mob table. It would result in too many odd things happening in the middle of Assaults if the Orks lost casualties from Fear checks).

Cybork changing back to a 5++ is a given. The change to Cybork is one of the 3 "Wait, what?" items in the Ork Codex (the other two being the change to the Deffrolla and the Morale "roll" required for Killa Kanz.)

Getting back to the point of the post, I actually think Mega Nobz are in a really good place right now. I use them fairly frequently and they usually do well. It's actually NORMAL Nob squads and Nob Bikers that I think need a fairly large point reduction. They're too expensive by a long shot, especially since Nobz can't get 5++ from Cybork bodies anymore.

Well all Nobz titled 'Boss Nob' which are the ones leading squads including the Nob squads should have +1 ldr(including the one for MANz). I'd like to see the normal Nobz squad have the option to take Rokkit Packs to make a Stormnobz squad. The bikes for them are too expensive, if they got back the cover saves they used to provide then I'd be more ok with the price. Cybork Body I'd rewrite it so that it gives a +1 bonus to FnP with a min FnP 6+. Aside from the ldr stat for squad ldrs the Nobz are another case of not needing to mess with stats and need tweaking on wargear options as well as pt values in my opinion.

You wouldn't need to make a moral test unless you lost that many orks, so it is better. If you lost no orks, then you will take d6 hits on anything but a 1, so same result, you may just lose 1-2 boyz. Still pretty good. I brought up the speed bonus because it means less turns being shot. If they didn't lose boys they would be even more devastating on the charge than they are.

(Sorry for the off topic conversation, I stated my belief for the fix and will be ducking out now)

Currently orks are one of the very few armies in the game not to get +1 leadership out of their serg equivalents. The others being daemons who don't care about morale and IG who have commissars. And of course DE have a few stinkers but those aren't an army wide thing at least and all buts grots are mitigated by serg type inclusions.
tldr Ld 7 is bs. Our primary ork player has finally accepted that its ok to house rule his army just a bit.. so were going with these for starters:

• Boss Nob, Boss Nob (Warkbiker) and Boss Meganob replace “Ld 7” with “Ld 8”.

Orks Wargear List
• Cybork body: replace “5 pts” with “10 pts.”

Appendix
• Mob Rule: Replace all instances of “D6” with D3”.

Orky Know-Wots
• Cybork Body: replace with “a model with a Cybork Body has a 5+ invulnerable saving throw.”



And some things were still debating on:

• Big Mek: Under mega armour options add “Shock Attack Gun…50 pts.”
• Nobz: add “Any model may take items from the Orky
Know-wots list.”
• Battlewagon: add “Invincible Behemoth.”
• Gorkanaut: replace “245 points” with “175 points” add “Invincible Behemoth.”.
• Morkanaut: replace “230 points” with “160 points” add “Invincible Behemoth.”.

Gubbinz and Gunz
• Tellyport Blasta: replace “Range 12” with “Range 18”.

• Gitfinda: add “Models with Relentless or Slow and Purposeful benefit from a Gitfinda even if they moved in the previous movement phase.”

Ork Vehicle Equipment
• Wreckin’ Ball: add “This shooting attack is always resolved at the vehicles unmodified Ballistic Skill, measured from any point on the vehicle.”

Anyway its been discussed to add access to cybork (the 5++) to meganobz but then they completely outshine nobz which I don't think any greenskin feels completely right about.