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 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Orks. So long as there's a fight, anywhere is fine.

Exactly what I thought when I saw the thread.
Out of the four options, however, it's Tau. No contest.


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 krodarklorr wrote:

But for real doh, Necrons have self-determination. They also think they're entitled to the galaxy, so there's that...

Is there a 40k race that does not think that, besides the Orks?

 Polonius wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
But even if you take their psychology away you have a race that never needs essentials. Their economy and ecology grows from the same spores they grow from. Like some kind of galactic virus that infects things on a planetary scale. Everywhere they go they ultimately turn the planet into something more their liking and this will occur naturally as all kinds of edible fungus and different orkoids, squigs, grots, snotlings grow from the same spores to provide the Orks with everything they need. The entire race is the most successful of the races in no small part due to this amazing feature that is the spores. They won their 'great racial conflict' as an eldar philosopher would put it. They are content, taken care of, and extremely successful, they don't need answers to questions they don't need to ask.

Sure, but food is only one aspect of standard of living. Another big one is physical security, lifespand, and mortality rates. Orks do not do as well there...

Standard of living is an inherently human concept, which doesn't apply easily to other species. But even with their reduced needs, Orks struggle mightily in many measures of Standard of Living.

That's impressive cherry picking. I didn't mention just food I mention that it brings everything they need. They got a squig/grot/snotling for just about anything. Rofl even hair squigs since they are naturally bald but still want to be flashy. Entire economy and ecology, whole thing in it's entirety. I am glad you recognize the difference between a human's concept of standard of living then that of an alien race. Especially since this particular alien race genetically thrives on violence, in fact unlike other races whom have specific periods of adolescence that spur on body growth and once that period is done it's done, the Orks adolescence can keep reoccuring as their adolescent growth is triggered by the confidence gained from successful violence. Their very success at the genetic level inherently requires losses in life so that the others can grow but it's made negligible through sheer proliferation. The standards are interestingly reversed with this alien race due to their very genetics.

If we want to pigeon hole the concept of standard of living to that of a human's perception of such a standard then let's cut to the chase and simply say the Humans get the win since it's their standard. But really we should be considering how each races choice/measure of their own standard is working for them.

The Tau, Eldar, Chaos Humans are the most human-like of the alien/human races. They likely think similar to us.

Orks, Necrons, Tyranids don't. They cannot be compared to humans.

 ProwlerPC wrote:

If we want to pigeon hole the concept of standard of living to that of a human's perception of such a standard then let's cut to the chase and simply say the Humans get the win since it's their standard. But really we should be considering how each races choice/measure of their own standard is working for them.

Than it's not a "standard" of living, is it?

This is one of those, specific definitions that come up. The concept of standard of living is meant to meausure quality of life across regions and cultures. It is, by definition, objective and a bit arbitrary.

There's an interesting discussion to be had in which race best lives up to its own ideal, but I think you'd have to pick orks there.

And Humans probably don't see Human quality of life as the highest, they aren't fools. Eldar life sounds better to me than life in the IoM, particularly given the wild income disparity.

I suppose but the human view of a good standard of life simply won't work for other races and will impact them in a negative way. For the Ork example if they didn't do violence then the race is doomed to be just a bunch of little snotlings or whatever orkoid form is the tiniest with no growth since the growth comes from violence.

I've considered Eldar due to their incredible technological achievements but I'm afraid even they admit amongst themselves (certainly not to other races!) that they failed. They are a dieing race. Just because they genetically live long lives doesn't mean it's a marker of success if their birth rate isn't keeping up and we are faced with a dwindling population. Whatever is happening right now with the Eldar, I'm inclined to conclude it's not working for them.

The average Ork Boy has a pretty low standard of living, because he's likely to die at any given moment. Fortunately, Orkoid expectations aren't very high to begin with.

+1 for the greenskins, racist poll or not.

Find it quite amusing when the Orks take the win in things like this.

It's because they don't expect much. From any outside perspective, however, Orks live in Mad Max times, which is only slightly better than living in Detroit.

DorianGray wrote:

Orks [...] cannot be compared to humans.

Chavs and Football Hooligans.

Add some green, and there's no difference.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
I suppose but the human view of a good standard of life simply won't work for other races and will impact them in a negative way. For the Ork example if they didn't do violence then the race is doomed to be just a bunch of little snotlings or whatever orkoid form is the tiniest with no growth since the growth comes from violence.

I've considered Eldar due to their incredible technological achievements but I'm afraid even they admit amongst themselves (certainly not to other races!) that they failed. They are a dieing race. Just because they genetically live long lives doesn't mean it's a marker of success if their birth rate isn't keeping up and we are faced with a dwindling population. Whatever is happening right now with the Eldar, I'm inclined to conclude it's not working for them.

Can people actually bother to read fluff before spouting off the memes of some faction like they're fact? Eldar are only "dying" in the sense that they're significantly smaller than their numbers during height of the Eldar Empire (which numbered in the quadrillions of souls to tredecillion). Otherwise not only are there billions of Eldar, the only thing that constrains their reproduction rates is the lack/rarity of spirit stones. It's not like they're experiencing some difficulty in conceiving children, they aren't infertile. The only con to being a Craftworlder Eldar is Slaanesh thirsting for your soul. But so long as your spirit stone isn't destroyed in service in a civilian militia or joining an Aspect, you're fine. Even the Craftworld Eldar still live a life we'd consider mildly hedonistic, indulging in free drugs and free alcohol and spending most of their days practicing an art.

The only true downside being an Eldar is the potency of their emotions. When Khaine calls them to serve in an Aspect, they absolutely must obey or they turn into sociopathic monsters that must be expelled from the Craftworld. So while you live in the land of milk and honey, you inevitably will find yourself facing down something like Space Marines or Orks at some point in your life.

You described that there was once a height of an empire in the past tense. You also use the population statistic of quadrillion to tredecillion in the same persepective of the past. Im not sure if you are countering my argument or supporting it.

The point being, that there are less Eldar now than then doesn't mean a lot when there are still billions-to-trillions of them now, and those living on the Craftworlds still enjoy a comparatively-high standard of living compared to just about everyone else in the galaxy.

Necrons? Like less than 1% of their population is actually sentient. The only ones really living high on the hog are the Overlords and Phaerons and such. Everyone else is some form of slave.

Its hard to figure out alien concepts of the good life.

Its possible they think VERY diffrently..

But from an outside prospective in, possibly the best would be
Orks because orks
Tau
Followed by Man (assuming they are heavily indoctrinated and or generic agro worlds)

Then the rest

When you think about it, Dark Eldar are basically the only society were you are ''free''. Craftworld Eldar live by a rigid Path system which won't be everyone cup of Tea, and according to Path of the Renegade they are also very socially rigid were it's easy to do the wrong thing and have everyone on the craftworld feel your a disgrace.

Likewise, Tau are also born into their caste system and cannot interchange. They also have their lives monitored and subtly controlled by the Ethereals. IOM is Grimdark as all hell.

On the other hand, Dark Eldar society almost a perfect meritocracy. Anyone, no matter birth station or were they live, can potentially rise very high in the ranks if they are smart enough and deadly enough. Sure, people die a lot and people will try to murder you, if only for fun, but it's the only place in the Galaxy were you'd have a chance to start a dynasty from scratch, see Vect, who himself started as a slave.

Quality of live? Maybe not the best. Potential to live as you want without constraints of social or caste classes while having the the opportunity to raise to the top of whatever you put your mind to? Better then anywhere else in the Galaxy, And to me that is more important in where is the best place to live.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
When you think about it, Dark Eldar are basically the only society were you are ''free''. Craftworld Eldar live by a rigid Path system which won't be everyone cup of Tea, and according to Path of the Renegade they are also very socially rigid were it's easy to do the wrong thing and have everyone on the craftworld feel your a disgrace.

Likewise, Tau are also born into their caste system and cannot interchange. They also have their lives monitored and subtly controlled by the Ethereals. IOM is Grimdark as all hell.

On the other hand, Dark Eldar society almost a perfect meritocracy. Anyone, no matter birth station or were they live, can potentially rise very high in the ranks if they are smart enough and deadly enough. Sure, people die a lot and people will try to murder you, if only for fun, but it's the only place in the Galaxy were you'd have a chance to start a dynasty from scratch, see Vect, who himself started as a slave.

Quality of live? Maybe not the best. Potential to live as you want without constraints of social or caste classes while having the the opportunity to raise to the top of whatever you put your mind to? Better then anywhere else in the Galaxy, And to me that is more important in where is the best place to live.

But what is Standards of living.

You can be completely institutionalized and still have a better standard of life than some free person out in the antarctic trying not to die.

Which faction can really provide all the food water shelter and protection you need and then a little more.

At its most basic, standard of living, at least in our world, is defined by measured aspects of a populations quality of life. Stripped to the essentials, it asks what populations can best provide for the security, nutrition, and healthy of its population. It also looks to other, soft factors, as well, for things like educaiton, civil liberties, etc.

think of Maslow's pyramid of needs. Security, than sustinence, than comfort, than growth.

I believe the Tau themselves are quite comfortable, however other races under the Greater Good are treated less amiably.

So I'm voting Craftworlders.

Though the Craftworld Eldar may have a bit better standard of living, from a purely material standpoint, but I think the Tau are more content. Sure, they live in a rigid, oppressive caste system, but their Big Brother state surely has some form of brain-washing to make sure they're content. Eldar, on the other hand, are pretty much all aware of how screwed they are. Simply because of blissful ignorance, I voted Tau.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Though the Craftworld Eldar may have a bit better standard of living, from a purely material standpoint, but I think the Tau are more content. Sure, they live in a rigid, oppressive caste system, but their Big Brother state surely has some form of brain-washing to make sure they're content. Eldar, on the other hand, are pretty much all aware of how screwed they are. Simply because of blissful ignorance, I voted Tau.

I have never heard of the caste system being oppressive. Mind providing a quote?

 dusara217 wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Though the Craftworld Eldar may have a bit better standard of living, from a purely material standpoint, but I think the Tau are more content. Sure, they live in a rigid, oppressive caste system, but their Big Brother state surely has some form of brain-washing to make sure they're content. Eldar, on the other hand, are pretty much all aware of how screwed they are. Simply because of blissful ignorance, I voted Tau.

I have never heard of the caste system being oppressive. Mind providing a quote?

umm a caste system is by it's nature somewhat opressive. providing limited to no social mobility

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
When you think about it, Dark Eldar are basically the only society were you are ''free''. Craftworld Eldar live by a rigid Path system which won't be everyone cup of Tea, and according to Path of the Renegade they are also very socially rigid were it's easy to do the wrong thing and have everyone on the craftworld feel your a disgrace.

Likewise, Tau are also born into their caste system and cannot interchange. They also have their lives monitored and subtly controlled by the Ethereals. IOM is Grimdark as all hell.

On the other hand, Dark Eldar society almost a perfect meritocracy. Anyone, no matter birth station or were they live, can potentially rise very high in the ranks if they are smart enough and deadly enough. Sure, people die a lot and people will try to murder you, if only for fun, but it's the only place in the Galaxy were you'd have a chance to start a dynasty from scratch, see Vect, who himself started as a slave.

Quality of live? Maybe not the best. Potential to live as you want without constraints of social or caste classes while having the the opportunity to raise to the top of whatever you put your mind to? Better then anywhere else in the Galaxy, And to me that is more important in where is the best place to live.

The Dark City has high standards of living in the same sense that Nostramo was a pleasant vacation spot. You can make yourself your own Kabal Leader, doesn't make it any less of a complete gakhole to live in. The only Eldar that live truly liberated lives are the Corsairs, who are restrained by nothing and live in waystations in the Webway.

 Psienesis wrote:
It's because they don't expect much. From any outside perspective, however, Orks live in Mad Max times, which is only slightly better than living in Detroit.

Exalted!

Chunky, frothy fungus beer. Orks win standard of living hands down.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

If Orks qualify, then Necrons would as well.

I don't know if you can say Necrons have a good standard of living, since they aren't *technically* alive in the traditional sense.

IoM, but depends on the planet.
Paradise Worlds, Astartes Homeworlds, or Civilized Worlds would propably be one of the most safest and comfortable places to live in, and offer the highest standards of living.

On the other hand, a Death Worlds or Fortress Worlds wouldn't be that fun. Hive Worlds are in the middle, as it varies based on your social position.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:
IoM, but depends on the planet.
Paradise Worlds, Astartes Homeworlds, or Civilized Worlds would propably be one of the most safest and comfortable places to live in, and offer the highest standards of living.

On the other hand, a Death Worlds or Fortress Worlds wouldn't be that fun. Hive Worlds are in the middle, as it varies based on your social position.

... and chances are, if you're born into the IoM, your life will be miserable and probably short, because while there might be a 1 in 1,000 chance you could be born a noble or on a world like Maccrage or a paradise world, the other 999 are not.

In contrast, only drones dig latrines in the Tau Empire. Even the lowest of the low can expect that the worst jobs in society will be done for them.

Standard of living is based on wealth and economic satisfaction of the citizenry.

- Dark Eldar are pirates- and people turn to piracy due to economic troubles. For a whole people to be pirates, the resources much be scarce.

- In the Imperium of Man, there are definitely a few people living it up (I'm sure much smaller than .01%) and the majority of the species lives in squalor and fear. If the average person were well off, then the IoM wouldn't need the level of fascism, propaganda and indoctrination that they use (ie- a wealthy, happy culture won't turn to revolution/worship of the chaos gods to solve their problems).

- The Tau I'm less sure about. Sure, they seem optimistic on the outside, but "for the greater good" is clearly propaganda- the slogan is asking sacrifices from Tau citizenry.

- The Eldar on the craftworlds are odd. They are all subject to a very regular draft, so there are clearly too few full time soldiers in their society.

Yet, some of their people follow the path of the artist. Eldar art is a the true expressive art and not government mandated propaganda.

That means that the Eldar's basic needs for food and clothing are being met, and there is enough to spare that the society can support some members not employed to meet the society's needs.

So, the fact that they do not employ a large enough standing army to defend themselves is a question of cultural priorities.

In short, the Eldar value their culture and art above their very survival in war. It is arrogant, but in character.


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Oh, and while orks do have enough resources to fill their needs, they don't share them with one another. Orks live in a Hobsian state of nature where their lives are poor, nasty, brutish and short.

Orks are not content economically, or they wouldn't steal one another's teeth so often.

Their teeth growth and decay are at set rates making it impossible for one Ork to horde and become too rich or for any Ork to stay poor for too long. They have one of the most balanced economic of the races genetically built into the race. Any design that causes the Orks to fight each other is done purposely, fighting and winning (and thus someone losing) is aboslutely utterly necessary for the growth of this alien race. Many more Orks are already growing out of the ground anyways so their proliferation was designed to keep this in mind. Orks are an artificially created race btw, designed to fight, designed to live and thrive under the unnatural condition and environment of WAR. Their creators made war and it's ugliness to be their high standard of living. A human standard simply doesn't apply. In this regard I'll agree that Orks shouldn't be on the list, in fact only humans should be on the list under that standard. But I'll as easily wave it off that the Orks are at the top of all the races by a landslide and this is to work out who is next under them.

Earn teef to spend teef.

Orks also make/devote times to the arts. Creating a behemoth in the image of their gods is certainly art. Creating weapons out of scrap is an art. Whether you find this art tasteful is irrelevant, Orks hands down devote the most time to the arts of any race, and it is clearly essential and the meaning of life itself for certain Orks in the caste system they have.