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2015/07/22 04:17:09
Subject: Which race in 40k has the highest standard of living?
Vitali Advenil wrote: Though the Craftworld Eldar may have a bit better standard of living, from a purely material standpoint, but I think the Tau are more content. Sure, they live in a rigid, oppressive caste system, but their Big Brother state surely has some form of brain-washing to make sure they're content. Eldar, on the other hand, are pretty much all aware of how screwed they are. Simply because of blissful ignorance, I voted Tau.
I have never heard of the caste system being oppressive. Mind providing a quote?
2015/07/23 21:53:40
Subject: Which race in 40k has the highest standard of living?
odinsgrandson wrote: Standard of living is based on wealth and economic satisfaction of the citizenry.
- Dark Eldar are pirates- and people turn to piracy due to economic troubles. For a whole people to be pirates, the resources much be scarce.
- In the Imperium of Man, there are definitely a few people living it up (I'm sure much smaller than .01%) and the majority of the species lives in squalor and fear. If the average person were well off, then the IoM wouldn't need the level of fascism, propaganda and indoctrination that they use (ie- a wealthy, happy culture won't turn to revolution/worship of the chaos gods to solve their problems).
- The Tau I'm less sure about. Sure, they seem optimistic on the outside, but "for the greater good" is clearly propaganda- the slogan is asking sacrifices from Tau citizenry.
- The Eldar on the craftworlds are odd. They are all subject to a very regular draft, so there are clearly too few full time soldiers in their society.
Yet, some of their people follow the path of the artist. Eldar art is a the true expressive art and not government mandated propaganda.
That means that the Eldar's basic needs for food and clothing are being met, and there is enough to spare that the society can support some members not employed to meet the society's needs.
So, the fact that they do not employ a large enough standing army to defend themselves is a question of cultural priorities.
In short, the Eldar value their culture and art above their very survival in war. It is arrogant, but in character.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and while orks do have enough resources to fill their needs, they don't share them with one another. Orks live in a Hobsian state of nature where their lives are poor, nasty, brutish and short.
Orks are not content economically, or they wouldn't steal one another's teeth so often.
You seem to be ignorant of the most fundamental portions of the Orks and the Dark Eldar. I'll make a list, because reasons.
1.) Dark Eldar must either a.)continually rape and torture and murder and otherwise give themselves pleasure, or b.) have their souls eaten by Slaanesh, the Prince of Pleasure, the God of Excess, whom the whole of the Eldar species know as "she who thirst"
2.) Dark Eldar, without exception, love raping and pillaging, which is why they don't just go and raid lightly defended agri-worlds, they seek out the heavily defended systems and burn them to the ground - just to say that they can.
3.) Orks are basically Khorne incarnate - they love war, war is who they are, why they exist, and their only way of being happy. If there were peace, they would be miserable. They seek out the toughest fights imaginable specifically to fight a good fight. Ork heaven would be the same as Norse Heaven - Valhalla.
4.) Orks have everything they need to survive and thrive encoded within their DNA. The very same Fungus that they grow from provides them with food. Encoded within Ork DNA is the ability to create virtually every Ork construct in use, from a battleship to a pistol (Orks basically come with an STC machine in every cell of their bodies). However, Orks love pillaging and looting, so they usually like to loot the Void Ships of other species, as well as the rest of their tech.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Though the Craftworld Eldar may have a bit better standard of living, from a purely material standpoint, but I think the Tau are more content. Sure, they live in a rigid, oppressive caste system, but their Big Brother state surely has some form of brain-washing to make sure they're content. Eldar, on the other hand, are pretty much all aware of how screwed they are. Simply because of blissful ignorance, I voted Tau.
I have never heard of the caste system being oppressive. Mind providing a quote?
No qoute needed, just look at the people on the bottom of the cast system in India! Or any other nation in the world we live in today where a cast system is in effevt, its by default made to oppress those whom is enslaved by it. All except those on the very top of said system
Except that there is not top of said system. From the Water Caste to the Fire Caste, the highest ranking members have at least as much power as the Ethereals do. The Ethereals guide and direct the Tau Empire, but the Kor'O or Por'O have the ability to countermand an Aun'Ui.
The Indian Caste system could be considered a horizontal caste system - that is, no ability to rise in the ranks. The Tau caste system is more along the lines of a vertical caste system, that is, restricted to a single general area for your job, but still more than capable or rising high in the ranks of where you're at. For instance, the lowest born member of the Earth Caste could one day be the architect of an entire Sept's city layouts. A Fire Caste member born to a lowly grunt could one day be a great general (like Shadowsun, Coldfire, Dawnlight, etc.). The daughter of a lowly fighter pilot might one day be the Admiral at the helm of a massive fleet. The son of a lowly Water Caste bureaucrat might one day be in command of a mighty trading empire.
Not to mention the fact that each caste is selectively bred to excel in their specific theater of the empire. The Fire Caste are ensured to be faster, stronger, with sharper eyesight. The Water Caste is ensured to be able to use words like most men couldn't dream. The Air Caste is ensured to be excellent pilots, with the best motor control. The Earth Caste is ensured to be both strong and clever, with the ability to design the mightiest of structures, while at the same time having the ability to erect them. So, you see, for 99% of the members in each caste, there would be virtually no desire to do the work of another caste. They are genetically designed to be the best in their field, and a Fire Warrior would lack the precision and skill of an Fighter Pilot, just like the Fighter Pilot's skeleton would collapse in the gravity of a standard world, and they would be too weak to do battle or build structures, just like an Earth Caste mason would be too slow of reflex to effectively pilot a ship, or to uncharismatic to convince an entire solar system to turn its coat, like the Water Caste would.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Desubot wrote: Thinking about it though. the Tau them selves as a species would be 10 out of 10 wound 10 again since they are all indoctrinated from the beginning to work that way together. so everyone is contempt with what they do. and im pretty sure drones do a lot more of the grunt work.
As for any integrated xenos and ummies, From what i understand they usually leave them to there own governments and politics so long as they provide tithes or do what the tau want them to do.
I dont recall hearing mass planetary removal to just use them as cannon fodder or mass trench diggers.
So the non Tau part of tau would have wildly different standards from complete dictatorships to paradise worlds. who really knows.
The Tau treat human worlds basically the same way as the Imperium of Man does - basically, if you're paying your tithes and conforming to the religion of the hegemony, do what you want. In the case of the Tau, however, the religion (the Greater Good) isn't completely and utterly xenophobic, not to mention the fact that it doesn't completely destroy any and all technological growth/innovation that might occur on the world.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/07/23 22:28:35
2015/07/25 00:09:45
Subject: Which race in 40k has the highest standard of living?
Alright, now, Psienesis, I shall acquire the quotes I need to prove myself right, or to prove myself wrong. To the fluff! Also, I'll see if I can get some stuff from Fire Warrior, but I don't have the Tau Codex, so I can basically only stick to the Wiki and Lexicanum, but, considering the fact that these are collectively generally rather well respected, that will have to do for now. I'll see if I can bring in more later.
Except that there is not top of said system. From the Water Caste to the Fire Caste, the highest ranking members have at least as much power as the Ethereals do. The Ethereals guide and direct the Tau Empire, but the Kor'O or Por'O have the ability to countermand an Aun'Ui.
Citation needed.
The Indian Caste system could be considered a horizontal caste system - that is, no ability to rise in the ranks. The Tau caste system is more along the lines of a vertical caste system, that is, restricted to a single general area for your job, but still more than capable or rising high in the ranks of where you're at. For instance, the lowest born member of the Earth Caste could one day be the architect of an entire Sept's city layouts. A Fire Caste member born to a lowly grunt could one day be a great general (like Shadowsun, Coldfire, Dawnlight, etc.). The daughter of a lowly fighter pilot might one day be the Admiral at the helm of a massive fleet. The son of a lowly Water Caste bureaucrat might one day be in command of a mighty trading empire.
But in no case will anyone not of the Ethereal Caste become an Ethereal, which is the ruling caste of Tau society.
Not to mention the fact that each caste is selectively bred to excel in their specific theater of the empire. The Fire Caste are ensured to be faster, stronger, with sharper eyesight. The Water Caste is ensured to be able to use words like most men couldn't dream. The Air Caste is ensured to be excellent pilots, with the best motor control. The Earth Caste is ensured to be both strong and clever, with the ability to design the mightiest of structures, while at the same time having the ability to erect them. So, you see, for 99% of the members in each caste, there would be virtually no desire to do the work of another caste. They are genetically designed to be the best in their field, and a Fire Warrior would lack the precision and skill of an Fighter Pilot, just like the Fighter Pilot's skeleton would collapse in the gravity of a standard world, and they would be too weak to do battle or build structures, just like an Earth Caste mason would be too slow of reflex to effectively pilot a ship, or to uncharismatic to convince an entire solar system to turn its coat, like the Water Caste would.
Because they are sub-species of a common ancestor. It's not just selective breeding, it's also that breeding outside of one's caste simply doesn't happen (may not be possible, either). If you are born into the Earth Caste, you will be a laborer. That's your lot in life, regardless of what else you might want to do... and while there is maybe the chance that you will rise to become someone of importance in the Caste, you better hope you were born on a world where such opportunities exist, otherwise you're digging sewer lines your entire life.
Caste\Rank Trainee rank - SAAL[1] Lowest rank - LA Second lowest rank - UI Middle rank - VRE Second highest rank - EL Highest rank - O
Fire - Shas .Underling..............................Warrior.........................Veteran..............................Hero.................................Noble or Knight......................Commander
Earth - Fio .Apprentice.............................Worker.........................Senior................................Overseer.........................Engineer..................................Planner
Water - Por. Assistant..................................Bureaucrat..................Envoy................................Magister..........................Diplomat..................................Ambassador
Air - Kor . Deliverer...............................Messenger..................Carrier................................Pilot..................................Captain................................... Admiral
Ethereal - Aun. Lord.....................................Prince........................... Prelate..............................King.................................Holy One..................................Highest of the Holy
'Saal - Cadet. This rank is typically given to Tau as soon as they enter service in the Fire Caste.
'La - The first and lowest true rank of Tau society. A Shas'la would be a standard Fire Warrior, while a Fio'la would be a manual laborer, and a Kor'la a crewman on a ship.
'Ui - The second rank among the Tau. A Shas'ui would be the leader of a squad of Fire Warriors (equivalent to an Imperial Space Marine Sergeant), or a Tau Battlesuit pilot, while a Por'Ui would be a mid-ranking envoy or diplomat.
'Vre - The third Tau rank. A Shas'vre is a Battlesuit team leader or bodyguard, a Fio'vre would be the foreman of a Tau factory, and a Kor'vre a fighter pilot.
'El - The fourth and second highest Tau rank, acknowledged as one of high esteem. Shas'el are Commanders, Kor'el command Tau spacecraft, and a Fio'el would be an engineer.
'O - The highest Tau rank. Kor'o would be the title of a fleet admiral, while Shas'o would be of the highest levels of command and fearsome warriors (usually placed in command of one or more cadres), and an Aun'o is the highest rank of Ethereal, revered by all Tau as the leader of their race.
Provided the warrior survives four years of active duty, he undergoes the first Trial by Fire, which can be anything from mere gladiatorial affairs to trial by constant combat. If the Shas'la survives his first Trial by Fire, he is promoted to the rank of Shas'ui, or Veteran. For every consecutive four years of service, the Fire Warrior undergoes another Trial. The higher one's rank within the Fire Caste, the more likely one is to become a Battlesuit pilot. Upon attaining the rank of "O", a member of the Fire Caste may be allowed to retire from active duty and become an advisor to the Tau military's command structure, the Shas'ar'tol. Other than death, this is the only way to leave the Tau military.
The Tau are the most open and tolerant of the intelligent races in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. They are the only army that prefers to settle their differences peacefully. They are appreciative of humans, Eldar, and the other sentient races, but hold their own values [not species, not race, not people, VALUES] to be superior to those of others--and they may be right, at least by the standards of our twenty-first century world and certainly by the xenophobic and often corrupt standards of the 41st Millennium's Imperium of Man.
Their tolerance also extends to themselves, as the Tau recognize even lowly Fio'la workers as being as important to the operation and well-being of the Tau Empire as Shas'vre Battlesuit leaders or even the highest Aun'o.
The Tau are the most open and tolerant of the races in the galaxy, which means that they prefer not to destroy all other races on sight and are nowhere near as xenophobic as the Imperium. They are appreciative of the ways of the humans, Eldar, and other sentient races, but hold their own values as superior above all others.
Their tolerance also extends to themselves, as the Tau recognize even lowly Fio'la workers as being as important to the operation and well-being of the Empire as Shas'vre Battlesuit leaders or even the highest Aun'o.
I'll be reading Fire Warrior, so I'll see what I can find in it.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/07/25 00:17:42
