Is Yuengling Lager the high-end of crappy American beer, or the low-end of good American beer?

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**Frazzled**

Brian2112 wrote:
You can keep all your hipster chocolate, berry, fruity and un-holy beers. The best beers are brewed following the rules in Vorläufiges Biergesetz or Reinheitsgebot. Three or four ingredients is all you really need.

Bolderdash. We all know the best beer comes from Kentucky and its title ends with "bourbon."

**Chief Tugboat**

Frazzled wrote:
Brian2112 wrote:
You can keep all your hipster chocolate, berry, fruity and un-holy beers. The best beers are brewed following the rules in Vorläufiges Biergesetz or Reinheitsgebot. Three or four ingredients is all you really need.

Bolderdash. We all know the best beer comes from Kentucky and its title ends with "bourbon."

I like your style!!

**AndrewGPaul**

There's a time for lager, but also a time for something else. A good pint of heavy goes well with a meal.

**Crimson Heretic**

We get it from relatives every year and i find it pretty decent. Its a rarity where i live as its not sold here. The low end of crap beer comes in the form of mountain crest about 2 dollars for a 6 pack of silos...really its different strokes for different folks, alot of people lose their minds about new glarus spotted cow..and i find its kind of boring, but then again i've had gallons of it in my life because its made here.

**timetowaste85**

cincydooley wrote:
jasper76 wrote:
Can someone enlighten me as to what is meant by the phrase "craft beer". Is that slang for "good beer"?

From the Colorado Brewers Association:

According to the Colorado-based Brewers Association, craft beer must be small, independent and traditional.
"Small" means the brewery distributes no more than six million barrels of beer a year.
"Independent" means that less than 25 percent of the brewery is owned by a non-craft beer brewery (like Anheuser-Busch InBev).
"Traditional" means that the majority of the brewery's output consists of "beers whose flavor derives from traditional or innovative brewing ingredients and their fermentation." (Sorry, Smirnoff Ice.)

I'm very much not a hipster, and I only drink craft beer, for a couple of reasons:

1. It's locally made and locally sourced. Most of the breweries in Cincinnati grow their own hops and get the rest of their ingredients from local farms. There are obviously hops they have to import (Galaxy from Australia, all the noble hops from Germany) but I know Listermann, MadTree, Blank Slate, and 50 West all grow everything they can or source it to local farms. Jackie O's has their own farm.

2. It almost always tastes better and is always more flavorful. I've had some craft brews that I didn't like, but it's not usually due to lack of flavor or complexity; some just don't agree with my palate. As a whole, your craft beers are going to be more flavorful, and craft brewers are going to take more risks and try more 'new stuff' than the macrobrews. You might recall Budweiser attempting to make fun of Craft Breweries for their "pumpkin peach ales,' to which Bell's (Kalamazoo, MI) responded with this:

3. My goal isn't typically to get drunk when I'm enjoying a beer, but Ironically it's easier and tastier to do with Craft Beer as a whole. The beers I drink are typically 7-12% alcohol and/or barrel aged, as I lean towards stouts, bocks, belgians, and IPAs. These are very easy to find in the world of craft brewing. I could drink and enjoy and, ironically, get drunk more efficiently than you standard macro that sits somewhere between 3.5-5%. The highest I've had are Avery's Uncle Jacob's Stout (17.4%)

and The Bruery's Chocolate Rain at 19.5%

Both were incredible.

Mother of God...That's something we certainly agree on. Those look phenomenal!!

**Inquisitor Lord Bane**

My favorite craft beer:

12.5% by volume. Yuengling comes in around 4.4%

**jasper76**

Polonius wrote:
Chief Tugboat wrote:
I've never had Yuengling Lager (or heard of it) but I do love all the competition nowadays in the beer world. I prefer the craft beers usually, although my favorite macrobrew flavor is Bud Light Lime. Its just so damn refreshing!!

I prefered Miller Chill (the same basic thing), but pilsners make great bases for shandies and malt beverages. My wife will drink some of the coors with fruit beers, and I'll admit, they can be tasty on a hot day, and at ~4%, they are quite sessionable.

If you ever see it around, Dogfish Head's 90 minute IPA is spectacular, especially with a nice cigar!

You're my new best friend.

A big IPA, which the 90 Minute is a fantastic example, pairs extremely well with a full bodied cigar. I had just that pair a few weeks ago.

Saturday was Victory Dirtwolf IPA, which is one of my personal favorite IPAs, along with Sixpointe Resin, Great Lakes Commodore Perry, and Fatheads Headhunter.

Dogfish Head also makes a 120 minute IPA. My wife loves it, but we've only ever found it for sale at the Dogfishhead restaurant in Bethany, or maybe its Rehobeth, can't remember. I'm not a fan, as to me it tasted too much like wine.

**gorgon**

Polonius wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Polonius wrote:
gorgon wrote:
And this is pretty much the reason why. Went to a beer fest earlier this year and it really hit home how many bad IPAs and craft brewers there are. IMO, there's an IPA "bubble" that's going to burst soon, as beer hipsterism fades and people start asking themselves if they really like what they're drinking.

I get accusations of snobbery towards craft beer fans, but I'll never understand the suspicion that we're all hipsters that don't even like what we're drinking.

I like IPAs. I enjoy drinking them, in that I dig the taste. Most people that drink IPAs are doing it for the same reason, because there is literally no upside to pretending to like IPAs.

Sure I''ve pretended to like some hipster music to get with a girl, or look cooler, but nobody thinks you'll look cool because of your beer. And if you look at craft beer fans, they're not exactly the kind of people whose approval I crave.

Maybe you need to make your peace with the idea that different people have different tastes.

I'm glad you noticed I was talking about *YOU* and took it so personally.

I was extrapolating my experience into a greater point. So, I drink IPAs because I like them, as do the people I associate with that drink IPAs.

I have evidence that there is no "hipsterism." Do you have anything to suggest that people are actually drinking beers they don't like?

Oh, and "you took it so personally" is just code for "I know I said something dumb, but I'd rather focus on your reaction than my dumb statement."

Perhaps if you and your kind weren't busy elevating the IPA above God and man, I wouldn't be in a seething rage, hating every IPA and IPA drinker with every fiber of my being. Or am I exaggerating our positions a smidge? Hmm.

On a serious note, I thought that it could go without saying that people are allowed to like what they like. But if you don't think there's hipsterism going on with craft brewed IPAs...we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that point. Personally I think it's as obvious (and about as played out) as ironic facial hair on bartenders.

Beyond the hipsterism, it just doesn't seem healthy for craft brewing to be so heavily reliant on one variety (which is probably more accurately described as a subvariety) of beer for their profitability. I wish more beer drinkers would explore the many interesting beers beyond the IPA. I think that'd ultimately be better for everyone involved. When I see intense interest and focus on a very narrow niche -- I see a worm that's going to turn at some point. *shrug*

Would you like a "ready or not, here I come" before I come after you and everything you stand for, Polonius?

**Chief Tugboat**

jasper76 wrote:
Polonius wrote:
Chief Tugboat wrote:
I've never had Yuengling Lager (or heard of it) but I do love all the competition nowadays in the beer world. I prefer the craft beers usually, although my favorite macrobrew flavor is Bud Light Lime. Its just so damn refreshing!!

I prefered Miller Chill (the same basic thing), but pilsners make great bases for shandies and malt beverages. My wife will drink some of the coors with fruit beers, and I'll admit, they can be tasty on a hot day, and at ~4%, they are quite sessionable.

If you ever see it around, Dogfish Head's 90 minute IPA is spectacular, especially with a nice cigar!

You're my new best friend.

A big IPA, which the 90 Minute is a fantastic example, pairs extremely well with a full bodied cigar. I had just that pair a few weeks ago.

Saturday was Victory Dirtwolf IPA, which is one of my personal favorite IPAs, along with Sixpointe Resin, Great Lakes Commodore Perry, and Fatheads Headhunter.

Dogfish Head also makes a 120 minute IPA. My wife loves it, but we've only ever found it for sale at the Dogfishhead restaurant in Bethany, or maybe its Rehobeth, can't remember. I'm not a fan, as to me it tasted too much like wine.

Agreed the 120 didn't quite do it for me like the 90 did! I can't remember exactly why, but I do remember just going "eh." Apparently if you let the 120 sit around and age for a couple YEARS, it completely changes and become more "complex" or something like that. I don't have the patience for all that jazz but might be worth it for some.

Most of the Craft beers I really enjoy are tough to consistently track down, which can be frustrating. It just means when I do find some I try to buy more of it.

**cincydooley**

gorgon wrote:

Beyond the hipsterism, it just doesn't seem healthy for craft brewing to be so heavily reliant on one variety (which is probably more accurately described as a subvariety) of beer for their profitability.

I'm not entirely sure this is the case anymore than it is for barrel aged beers. They're popular because lots of people like them.

If you're looking for other good "summer" beers, I heartily recommend Gose's. It's a traditional German, top fermented beer that has a sour and salty taste to it. We have a brewery locally (Urban Artifact) that is only brewing sour style beers, and they just released a tequila-lime gose that was really really tasty and refreshing.

@Polonius --> Remind me to send you a 4 pack of Galaxy or Citra High when they're released next year. Big, delicious IPAs that, IMO rival the best that the West Coast or 333Fs produces.

**gorgon**

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:
My favorite craft beer:

12.5% by volume. Yuengling comes in around 4.4%

Ordered one of those at a Buffalo Wild Wings a couple years ago, and the waitress went into what could only be described as disclosures.

I found it interesting that you could have umpteen lower content beers or plenty of the liquor of your choice, but there was a strict two-Monkey limit at that establishment.

**cincydooley**

gorgon wrote:

I found it interesting that you could have umpteen lower content beers or plenty of the liquor of your choice, but there was a strict two-Monkey limit at that establishment.

I'm guessing that has less to do with the alcohol and more to do with the difficulty in getting the beer in.

**jasper76**

IPA = heartburn in a bottle. I like the flavor, but damn. Maybe I'm just getting old.

**Polonius**

gorgon wrote:

On a serious note, I thought that it could go without saying that people are allowed to like what they like. But if you don't think there's hipsterism going on with craft brewed IPAs...we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that point. Personally I think it's as obvious (and about as played out) as ironic facial hair on bartenders.

I guess maybe I should ask what you mean by "hipster-ism." I dont' want to presume I know what you mean, so maybe if you could explain that term, we might see more eye to eye.

Beyond the hipsterism, it just doesn't seem healthy for craft brewing to be so heavily reliant on one variety (which is probably more accurately described as a subvariety) of beer for their profitability. I wish more beer drinkers would explore the many interesting beers beyond the IPA. I think that'd ultimately be better for everyone involved. When I see intense interest and focus on a very narrow niche -- I see a worm that's going to turn at some point. *shrug*

that's certainly not a unique concern, but I'm not sure it's a valid one. IPA sales, even in the world of craft beer, aren't as huge as you think. This article suggests about 25% of craft beer sales are due to IPAs:

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/20/craft-beer-drinkers-are-still-flocking-to-ipas-.html

It also shows that IPA sales increased even mroe than over all craft beer sales, which suggests that there is still enough diversity to grow the market. (or that IPAs are causing people buy more craft beer). I now some regions are more IPA laden than others, but I'm a serious beer drinker, and at most beer bars IPAs don't dominate the taps like you'd think.

And tastes always change. In 1984, I'd have loved to own a piece of the Wine Cooler market. Now? Deader than dead. I'm sure it'll level out. The real craft beer avant gard is all over sours as the next big thing, so we'll see how that goes. Even if interest in IPAs wanes, craft beer would be left in a good position.

Would you like a "ready or not, here I come" before I come after you and everything you stand for, Polonius?

Come at me bro!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

cincydooley wrote:

@Polonius --> Remind me to send you a 4 pack of Galaxy or Citra High when they're released next year. Big, delicious IPAs that, IMO rival the best that the West Coast or 333Fs produces.

I never got around to visiting the natti for a beer tour, although I've heard great things. Ohio is actually a really great beer state in general.

How do you feel about Great Lakes Lake Erie Monster?

**gorgon**

cincydooley wrote:
gorgon wrote:

I found it interesting that you could have umpteen lower content beers or plenty of the liquor of your choice, but there was a strict two-Monkey limit at that establishment.

I'm guessing that has less to do with the alcohol and more to do with the difficulty in getting the beer in.

That location was maybe 3 miles from the Victory brewery, though. Admittedly, I don't know how their purchasing works with regard to alcoholic beverages. But it's not like Victory is hard to find in its hometown.

**Inquisitor Lord Bane**

I've never seen spicy food mix well with Golden Monkey. The beer itself gets me firschniked after 3, no clue why.

**cincydooley**

Polonius wrote:

How do you feel about Great Lakes Lake Erie Monster?

More a fan of the beer than the label redesign from Great Lakes! I thought it was really, really good. I enjoy the fruitier IPAs, and this LEM definitely has that going for it. I've heard some people complain that it's become more similar to a belgian, but as I like belgians, I'm not upset about it

I haven't had a ton of Simcoe hops before, but I'm definitely on the look out now after trying it.

As to Cincinnati --> It's really cool to see the brewing coming back to the queen city, considering the history it has here. There used to be something like 130 breweries in Cincy, and while its not back up there, there are a ton making a lot of high quality beer now.

I feel pretty fortunate, because between Ohio and Michigan, I don't ever feel like I need to drink outside the region at all. Of course I do (I LOVE a lot of what Heavy Seas is doing in your neck of the woods), so my cellar is usually pretty full. If you get a chance, try The Brew Kettle's White Rajah; really fantastic IPA that won some awards on the left coast, being some of Stone's stuff even.

@Gorgon --> I don't know enough about that particular Victory brew, but allocations can still be very small to local eateries, even if they're local to the brewery. You have to remember that a lot of these Craft Breweries are brewing things in really small volumes.

**Polonius**

I never made it to the Brew Kettle brewing, but the White Raja was my back up at the super-hipster taco place I used to go to in Lakewood. (Resin was my go-to). White Raja is goooood.

I used to live 10 minutes from the Fat heads brew pub, so I feel in love hard with the Headhunter. After about six (or maybe seven) of those, I was "responsibly served." Lol.

I'm digging heavy seas. Duclaws isn't as much my taste, but I went to one of their restaurants and had $30, 21 beer sampler. That was epic!

**gorgon**

Polonius wrote:

that's certainly not a unique concern, but I'm not sure it's a valid one. IPA sales, even in the world of craft beer, aren't as huge as you think. This article suggests about 25% of craft beer sales are due to IPAs:

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/20/craft-beer-drinkers-are-still-flocking-to-ipas-.html

It also shows that IPA sales increased even mroe than over all craft beer sales, which suggests that there is still enough diversity to grow the market. (or that IPAs are causing people buy more craft beer). I now some regions are more IPA laden than others, but I'm a serious beer drinker, and at most beer bars IPAs don't dominate the taps like you'd think.

And tastes always change. In 1984, I'd have loved to own a piece of the Wine Cooler market. Now? Deader than dead. I'm sure it'll level out. The real craft beer avant gard is all over sours as the next big thing, so we'll see how that goes. Even if interest in IPAs wanes, craft beer would be left in a good position.

Maybe you're right. I've heard some of the sour hype too.

Although the last time I was at the beer snob bar in our neighborhood, at least half of the 20-ish beers on draft were pale ales. It might have been 60%. I was in the mood for something different, and was a little surprised how limited my draft options were.

It's definitely possible that local, personal experiences have colored my opinions. *shrug*

**BlaxicanX**

All beer tastes equally like piss to me, so I just drink whatever the darkest stuff available is to make a good impression on the folks around me. "Guinness, or whatever your darkest beer is" is pretty much the extent of my beer knowledge.

**Chief Tugboat**

BlaxicanX wrote:
All beer tastes equally like piss to me, so I just drink whatever the darkest stuff available is to make a good impression on the folks around me. "Guinness, or whatever your darkest beer is" is pretty much the extent of my beer knowledge.

Yikes! I know some people like that and it is understandable. Being a bartender/bar manager I meet all sorts of drinkers and most have no idea what they really like. They go off their friends likes instead of making their own decisions or trying something new. Usually I have to walk them through some options and descriptions to find them something suitable. It is interesting how many grown men (ie 35+ me being 23 yrs.) literally ask me what I drink and then get that. Maybe because I'm behind the bar so I know whats "good" but good is very subjective.

All in a days work.

**Spetulhu**

If you don't try something new once in a while it's none of my business. Maybe you just happen to like whatever stuff it is you can buy in volume anywhere. And there is the money to think about. I like to have a couple good ones if it's just sitting down with a few friends for a game, but if I'm aiming to get drunk there's no sense in doing it on something that costs more than about a euro per can. And if we're having a sauna evening you don't need anything spectacular, just something that goes down smoothly when chilled.

**Polonius**

Chief Tugboat wrote:
It is interesting how many grown men (ie 35+ me being 23 yrs.) literally ask me what I drink and then get that. Maybe because I'm behind the bar so I know whats "good" but good is very subjective.

All in a days work.

That's bizarre! I feel that an adult should have a list of go-to drinks for any situation. Varietal of wine (Reisling or gewurtzaminer), craft beer style (IPA), macro brew (Labatt/Guinness/Yuengling), well drink (gin and tonic), cocktail (bulleit Manhatten), and sipping whiskey (Jameson).

If a bar is slow, I might ask the bartender for a recommendation, or if there's a house speciality. But I know that not making a clear order is usually frowned upon.

**cincydooley**

Polonius wrote:

That's bizarre! I feel that an adult should have a list of go-to drinks for any situation. Varietal of wine (Reisling or gewurtzaminer), craft beer style (IPA), macro brew (Labatt/Guinness/Yuengling), well drink (gin and tonic), cocktail (bulleit Manhatten), and sipping whiskey (Jameson).

Couldn't agree more:

Varietal of wine - Smoky Cab or Buttery Chard
craft beer style - IPA/Gose for the Daytime; Barrel Aged Stout for the night
macro brew - Yeungling
well drink (gin and tonic) - vodka tonic lime
cocktail (bulleit Manhatten) - Buffalo Trace Old Fashioned (or Rittenhouse if they have it)
sipping whiskey (Jameson) - Elmer T Lee if they have it, Blanton's if they don't.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Polonius wrote:

I used to live 10 minutes from the Fat heads brew pub, so I feel in love hard with the Headhunter. After about six (or maybe seven) of those, I was "responsibly served." Lol.

I'm digging heavy seas. Duclaws isn't as much my taste, but I went to one of their restaurants and had $30, 21 beer sampler. That was epic!

I THOUGHT you used to live in Cleveland. Headhunter is super good. Fat Head's is one of my favorite breweries, and their Hop JuJu is amazing. Hard to find of course, but amazing. They're getting ready to start brewing their Spooky Tooth (Imperial Pumpkin) and I'm really excited for that again.

**timetowaste85**

Porters and stouts are my craft brews of choice. If not those, I'll take a Belgian, followed by a brown. I won't drink IPA. I think it's crap.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Chief Tugboat wrote:
I've never had Yuengling Lager (or heard of it) but I do love all the competition nowadays in the beer world.

If your location is correct, I would count it a miracle on par with Jesus walking on water if you did find it available.

Personally, I've never found an IPA that I actually enjoy. I am much more of a fan of the Hefeweizen

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Varietal of wine - Ruby Port
craft beer style - Hefeweizen
macro brew - Yeungling or Rainier, perhaps Widmer, if they are considered macro at this point
well drink- single malt scotch, neat
cocktail- Manhattan or old fashioned, depending on whiskey available, Long Island Iced Tea as a fall back
sipping whiskey- Single Malt Scotch, the older the better, though I can usually afford up to around 16 to 18 year variants when out and about.

**Chute82**

Yuengling lager is ok for a cheap lager. You can't get away from it here in PA. The best beer by far I ever had was when I was stationed in Germany with the German paratroopers. Those Germans knew a thing or two about their beer.

**Daba**

I drank IPAs (well, Old Empire, a UK beer by Marstons) before it was cool. Does that make me some kind of super-hipster?

**cincydooley**

Daba wrote:
I drank IPAs (well, Old Empire, a UK beer by Marstons) before it was cool. Does that make me some kind of super-hipster?

It does. It also entitles you to a mega-beard and a lifetime supply of PBR.

**Polonius**

cincydooley wrote:
Daba wrote:
I drank IPAs (well, Old Empire, a UK beer by Marstons) before it was cool. Does that make me some kind of super-hipster?

It does. It also entitles you to a mega-beard and a lifetime supply of PBR.

keep in mind, American IPAs have only a passing resemblence to the tradtional style.