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http://www.alternet.org/media/cnn-panel-explodes-after-ex-cop-says-sandra-bland-died-because-she-was-arrogant-beginning

http://time.com/3966220/sandra-bland-video/

*sigh*

How do these things keep happening? You'd think the rotten cops would be lying low by now. I guess consequences aren't severe enough to dissuade this sort of behavior.

Which is terrifying.

Lots of noise but not a lot of proof the PoPo did anything wrong. We'll see. The county did it right by immediately calling in the Rangers (the equivalent of the state FBI) and the actual FBI.

All I have to say is Frazzled inlaws are in Waller County and Frazzled is two miles from there. Bring your rent a mob riot squad and you'll get the business end of lots and lots and lots of 00 buckshot and .223 rounds.

We don't permit riots in Texas.

You know she's dead right?
Think I heard she suffers from depression, PTSD and some other mental issues
Found hanging in her cell from a plastic trash bag I believe.

 Jihadin wrote:
You know she's dead right?
Think I heard she suffers from depression, PTSD and some other mental issues
Found hanging in her cell from a plastic trash bag I believe.

Who are you responding to?

Woops
First paragraph
No coffee yet

 Jihadin wrote:
Woops
First paragraph
No coffee yet

NO COFFEE!!!

I've watched the video. She's non compliant the whole time. And there's pretty much zero evidence of any wrong doing at this point.

Doesn't help that the mob, in their power and wisdom, seems to know EXACTLY what happened.

We've got a similar one going on Cincinnati:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/22/questions-remain-unresolved-after-cincinnati-campus-cop-kills-unarmed-black-man/?tid=hpModule_9d3add6c-8a79-11e2-98d9-3012c1cd8d1e

 cincydooley wrote:
I've watched the video. She's non compliant the whole time. And there's pretty much zero evidence of any wrong doing at this point.

Doesn't help that the mob, in their power and wisdom, seems to know EXACTLY what happened.

We've got a similar one going on Cincinnati:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/22/questions-remain-unresolved-after-cincinnati-campus-cop-kills-unarmed-black-man/?tid=hpModule_9d3add6c-8a79-11e2-98d9-3012c1cd8d1e

wow I just read that and the first couple comments. the guy was drunk, waving a open bottle of alcohol at the cop and then apparently hit the cop with his car and they are trying to say the cop wasn't justified in shooting him....jesus! what is justified then? is it ok to kill a suspect/criminal after they have shot you? or do you have to wait for a lawyer to give you the go ahead.

 cincydooley wrote:
I've watched the video. She's non compliant the whole time.

Ah, here we go, member #1 with the old "If a cop tells you to jump, you ask how high, or else you deserve to die."

Wow, this traffic stop seemed perfectly reasonable until the cop let her get under his skin.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I've watched the video. She's non compliant the whole time.

Ah, here we go, member #1 with the old "If a cop tells you to jump, you ask how high, or else you deserve to die."

Please show where the suspect died for not complying in the fact pattern of the thread?
I see a suspect arrested for resisted arrest and assault of a police officer. The merit of those matters would have been proven or disproven at trial.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Wow, this traffic stop seemed perfectly reasonable until the cop let her get under his skin.

It wasn't reasonable for her to blow smoke in his face. Sorry. but put your fething cigarette out.

 Frazzled wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I've watched the video. She's non compliant the whole time.

Ah, here we go, member #1 with the old "If a cop tells you to jump, you ask how high, or else you deserve to die."

Please show where the suspect died for not complying in the fact pattern of the thread?
I see a suspect arrested for resisted arrest and assault of a police officer. The merit of those matters would have been proven or disproven at trial.

Sure, she was being a gakhead, but why was she asked to step out of the vehicle for not putting out her cigarette?

Her death was probably not some crazy coverup by the police but instead because of mental illness. But still, that traffic stop was way over the line.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Wow, this traffic stop seemed perfectly reasonable until the cop let her get under his skin.

It wasn't reasonable for her to blow smoke in his face. Sorry. but put your fething cigarette out.

Where did that happen?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I've watched the video. She's non compliant the whole time.

Ah, here we go, member #1 with the old "If a cop tells you to jump, you ask how high, or else you deserve to die."

Nothing the officer did at the stop resulted in her death. Not a single thing.

You should probably read the story.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I've watched the video. She's non compliant the whole time.

Ah, here we go, member #1 with the old "If a cop tells you to jump, you ask how high, or else you deserve to die."

You (in the general sense) don't deserve to die, and there's no evidence that she was killed by anyone. It's just not recommended to piss off a cop, because they can legally do a lot of things to make your day a misery, on a fairly thin pretext.

I don't get it. She was legitimately pulled over, was uncooperative and...not sure what happened then and made him get her down. She continues to resist and constantly insults him. Gets locked up (for resisting arrest I guess?) then kills herself, with the footage clearly proving that it was a suicide.

The policer officer obviously lacked training in deescalative dialogues and should have been more calm about the cigarette. He is already on the desk for that behavior.

Bland, however, instead of complying and going to the police station, then later on taking legal action, decided that it was a superb idea to constantly provoke and insult the policer officer. Not a smart idea after all.

Playing the race card on this, however, is just stupid.

OP, that title is just a poor clickbait attempt.

Sure, she was being a gakhead, but why was she asked to step out of the vehicle for not putting out her cigarette?

1. Please show proof that’s why she was asked to step out of the vehicle.
2. Being asked to step out of your vehicle is perfectly legal and within the rights of the officer to do.

Her death was probably not some crazy coverup by the police but instead because of mental illness.

That has neither been proven or disproven at this point. I’ll hold judgment until the Rangers and FBI finish their investigation.

But still, that traffic stop was way over the line.[.quote]
Again, how?

Where did that happen?

When she was talking to him. If she’s smoking a cigarette and talking to him, she’s blowing smoke at him. While I don’t like the “gain complete control of the situation and require compliance” training/culture taught to police, that’s just being polite, and she was asked to politely do so.

You cannot talk to a person and blow a smoke a different direction? That is a pretty flimsy argument Fraz, as is your argument about being told to step out of the vehicle. He asks her to put it out, she refuses, he tells her to get out. That is exactly how it goes down.

The policer officer obviously lacked training in deescalative dialogues and should have been more calm about the cigarette. He is already on the desk for that behavior.

Agreed. Training/culture is for absolute compliance or the officer is to escalate, and training standards need to move away from that. A good parent isn't a hard ass mui macho, a good parent picks battles. Having said that there is an argument that dope/crack smokers will light a cigarette to cover the smell, but I have no proof of the veracity of that argument. I think he just got annoyed that she didn't immediately comply.

He should have simply said-"fine, forget the warning, welcome to planet ticket Yankee, have a nice day." If she had no warrants, add it to your quota and move on.

remember kids, be polite, even if you have to politely not give consent to searches or further discussion. If something needs to be fought, fight about it later.
Also, if you start hearing meow, best to ignore it...

 Dreadwinter wrote:
You cannot talk to a person and blow a smoke a different direction? That is a pretty flimsy argument Fraz, as is your argument about being told to step out of the vehicle. He asks her to put it out, she refuses, he tells her to get out. That is exactly how it goes down.

That's true, we can't tell exactly where she blew the smoke. However, it's pretty damn likely that she was either blowing smoke in his direction, or blowing him off and staring ahead whilst smoking a cigarette, just going by the interaction. Of course, everything to do with the traffic stop is mostly irrelevant, because she killed herself several days later, and that's what we should be focussing on.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
You cannot talk to a person and blow a smoke a different direction? That is a pretty flimsy argument Fraz, as is your argument about being told to step out of the vehicle. He asks her to put it out, she refuses, he tells her to get out. That is exactly how it goes down.

1. She could have but I highly doubt she did. As noted, some police will argue addicts use cigarette smoke to cover. But simple politeness would be to not smoke a cigarette at the moment or put it out when asked.

2. As to pulling her out. As soon as he stopped her he was within his rights to have her step out, no reason needed. if you refuse to step out when asked, you're going to jail (at best).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

because she killed herself several days later, and that's what we should be focussing on.

Allegdly. Thats still being investigated. Frankly, any time there is a death in custody it should be heavily investigated by 3rd party investigators. I would also proffer any time there is a shoot it should likely be investigated by a 3rd party.

 Frazzled wrote:

Allegdly. Thats still being investigated. Frankly, any time there is a death in custody it should be heavily investigated by 3rd party investigators. I would also proffer any time there is a shoot it should likely be investigated by a 3rd party.

Hear hear, something I agree with.

I just find it incredible that someone would be that nasty when the officer was giving a warning, not a ticket.

If I were to get pulled over and get a warning rather than a ticket, I'm going to be pretty gracious and probably feel pretty lucky.

That said, I agree with Frazz. If he felt the need to do something further, he ought to have just given her a ticket rather than asking her to get out of the car.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
You cannot talk to a person and blow a smoke a different direction? That is a pretty flimsy argument Fraz, as is your argument about being told to step out of the vehicle. He asks her to put it out, she refuses, he tells her to get out. That is exactly how it goes down.

1. She could have but I highly doubt she did. As noted, some police will argue addicts use cigarette smoke to cover. But simple politeness would be to not smoke a cigarette at the moment or put it out when asked.

2. As to pulling her out. As soon as he stopped her he was within his rights to have her step out, no reason needed. if you refuse to step out when asked, you're going to jail (at best).

Did you know many mental illnesses gravitate towards certain addictions specifically? Nicotine is one of the big ones, it helps relieve a lot of stress and stops people from becoming further agitated. If we are going by assumptions, I am going to assume that she was smoking to stop herself from further flying off the handle. You ever tried to take a cigarette from a nicotine addict with a mental illness? Do it one time, you would deserve everything that happens to you afterwards. It wouldn't be pretty.

 Frazzled wrote:

because she killed herself several days later, and that's what we should be focussing on.

Allegdly. Thats still being investigated. Frankly, any time there is a death in custody it should be heavily investigated by 3rd party investigators.

That's what I mean, though. That investigation should be the focus right now, rather than the smokescreen offered by the traffic stop.

I would also proffer any time there is a shoot it should likely be investigated by a 3rd party.

That would (hopefully) restore some level of confidence in the US police, and really should be implemented.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
You cannot talk to a person and blow a smoke a different direction? That is a pretty flimsy argument Fraz, as is your argument about being told to step out of the vehicle. He asks her to put it out, she refuses, he tells her to get out. That is exactly how it goes down.

1. She could have but I highly doubt she did. As noted, some police will argue addicts use cigarette smoke to cover. But simple politeness would be to not smoke a cigarette at the moment or put it out when asked.

2. As to pulling her out. As soon as he stopped her he was within his rights to have her step out, no reason needed. if you refuse to step out when asked, you're going to jail (at best).

Did you know many mental illnesses gravitate towards certain addictions specifically? Nicotine is one of the big ones, it helps relieve a lot of stress and stops people from becoming further agitated. If we are going by assumptions, I am going to assume that she was smoking to stop herself from further flying off the handle. You ever tried to take a cigarette from a nicotine addict with a mental illness? Do it one time, you would deserve everything that happens to you afterwards. It wouldn't be pretty.

Whatever. As a former smoker who's had quite a few interactions with the PoPo (both as compatriot when shooting and potential violator) I'd never have a cigarette around a police officer. When I was in LA, being polite with slow movements and presenting no reason to alarm was a key strategy to not ending up on a car hood. For a certain period of time I was routinely pulled over (as in once every two weeks) because I was the wrong color in a neighborhood and they were routinely pulling me over thinking I was looking for drugs or hookers. You lose you cool-even if completely innocent-and you're going to jail or at least getting a bunch of tickets. Don't lose your cool and the situation ends better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

because she killed herself several days later, and that's what we should be focussing on.

Allegdly. Thats still being investigated. Frankly, any time there is a death in custody it should be heavily investigated by 3rd party investigators.

That's what I mean, though. That investigation should be the focus right now, rather than the smokescreen offered by the traffic stop.

Agreed. And also I see what you did there -smokescreen...

I would also proffer any time there is a shoot it should likely be investigated by a 3rd party.

That would (hopefully) restore some level of confidence in the US police, and really should be implemented.

Agreed.

 Frazzled wrote:
Whatever. As a former smoker who's had quite a few interactions with the PoPo (both as compatriot when shooting and potential violator) I'd never have a cigarette around a police officer. When I was in LA, being polite with slow movements and presenting no reason to alarm was a key strategy to not ending up on a car hood. For a certain period of time I was routinely pulled over (as in once every two weeks) because I was the wrong color in a neighborhood and they were routinely pulling me over thinking I was looking for drugs or hookers. You lose you cool-even if completely innocent-and you're going to jail or at least getting a bunch of tickets. Don't lose your cool and the situation ends better.

Pick up the can, citizen.

The title is unnecessarily proactive and incendiary - so I've changed it.

Some posts in the thread break Rule #1.

So, here's a general in thread warning to knock it off.

Thanks!

Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Whatever. As a former smoker who's had quite a few interactions with the PoPo (both as compatriot when shooting and potential violator) I'd never have a cigarette around a police officer. When I was in LA, being polite with slow movements and presenting no reason to alarm was a key strategy to not ending up on a car hood. For a certain period of time I was routinely pulled over (as in once every two weeks) because I was the wrong color in a neighborhood and they were routinely pulling me over thinking I was looking for drugs or hookers. You lose you cool-even if completely innocent-and you're going to jail or at least getting a bunch of tickets. Don't lose your cool and the situation ends better.

Pick up the can, citizen.

No it was more [read between lines] "whats a redneck kicker like you doing deep in the barrio?"

I must admit I really enjoyed messing with them when the would roust the block party. Because I knew that 50% of time the time the cops would eventually be there I'd always just have a plastic liter bottle of Dr. Pepper. When they'd come in and started rousting the youngins and forcing them to poor out all their booze (occasionally arresting a fair number), I'd just laugh when they started looking at the Dr. Pepper bottle, explaining I knew they were coming and didn't need the hassle. I'd always offer them some and they would laugh (occasionally accepting) and move on. I got to know a few of them over time.

I am actually indifferent on the subject. Shame on the police, but the women had done something clearly wrong. I have no further comments.