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Good day,
Genuine question here (not a QQ thread or whatver, I just want feedback and hopefully even some tangible proof).

I've read here and there that DA were now top tier army. Do we have proof (personal or facts) that they are actually? I've started DA before their new codex, and I've play after, and I don't see any reason to believe we got better or worse to be honest. (ps: I'm really happy with the books, I have so much random stuff I want to try )

Played six games with the new codex.

1500 2vs2 Deathwing + Imperial Guard vs Orks + Chaos Marines, Maelstrom, loss.
1000 1vs1 Deathwing + Ravenwing Attack Squadron vs Khorne Daemonkin, Purge the Xenos, win.
1000 1vs1 same as above, win.
1000 1vs1 same as above vs Blood Angels dreadnought army, loss.
1000 1vs1 same as above vs Eldar, win.
1800 1vs1 Deathwing + Ravenwing vs Khorne Daemonkin, Maelstrom, loss.

All in all, 50-50 with Deathwing (and everyone always says Terminators suck). Either way, I'm happy. I win some, I lose some. All games have been fun so far with the new dex.

I've played 3 game since the new codex:
500 RSF vs Tau (learning game for a friend), Kill Points, loss.
1500 (Unbound) RSF + 5Termi + Vindicare vs Tyrannid, Maelstrom, loss.
1500 RSF + DRF vs DE, Maelstorm, loss

My game have all been really fun. The 500pts was a close one, but I wasn't really playing the army to the fullest (was showing a friend how to play his first game).

The 1500pts vs Tyrannid was my best game so far (and best in a while). Really really close, end up in turn 7 with 1 points difference. It was a blast. Ravenwing Command Squad really doing the heavy lifting.

The 1500pts vs DE was some sort of eye opener for me. I think it's because of the matchup, but still, I was unhappy with my forces. DE Jetbike have a lot of fun jinking at 3+, Good Hammer of Wrath, Better initiave. Yeah I have my T5, they have T4 (but they poison anyway on range). Yeah if they don't kill me on their initiave, they are probably dead (T4, 5+ save, strenght 3). but I feel like their Hammer of Wrath with Caltrop (put 9 bike in a squad, 3 clatrops) make their Jink actually helpful (cuz they Jink then charge ya with a decent HoW) When I jink with my bikes, I basicly lose a turn (max squad being 6, jinking is often necessary to survive) I jink at 4+ reroll (3+ if shourd close enough) and that's good. But what do I do after? Shoot snapshot then charge? Is it actually worth to charge DE or Eldar? (Overwattch + better initiave can really mess you up REALLY quickly)

My DA ravenwing have done fairly well so far, with grav guns and the 2+(rerollable) jinking ravenwing command squad they seem to live a lot longer now. The new formations can be very powerful, not really OP but powerful.

My Deathwing have not seen any combat yet this edition as they are in the middle of having the paint stripped and redone.

My DA ravenwing have done fairly well so far, with grav guns and the 2+(rerollable) jinking ravenwing command squad they seem to live a lot longer now.

But how do you dish out damage? Twin-link stuff can only do so much (and Grav or melta ain't twin-link). I feel like everytime I jink, be it a 3+ re-roll or 2+ re-roll, I kill my army. (The command Squad is beast tho, considering their melee is +1 S rending, they at least can follow up their jink with some charge in)

Well I don't have every unit jinking every turn so the ones that aren't jinking(usually normal bikes) fire at full effectiveness while things like the command squad jink there way into assault with a few plasma guns hitting and wounding. people tend to focus on units that have a 2+ rerollable jink or they go for the support squadron to try and weaken the jink save(who then jink for a nice rerollable save). I end up with lots of units each turn that are still more than capable of fighting and dealing damage.

Guess I haven't been lucky lol. People I played against were spliting there AP2-3 shot on every squad to force a Jink EVERYWHERE. 5-6 squad ain't hard to force jink on every turn. At least that's what I believe. Anyway, they are fun to play with so that's the only thing that matter

 PandaHero wrote:
Guess I haven't been lucky lol. People I played against were spliting there AP2-3 shot on every squad to force a Jink EVERYWHERE. 5-6 squad ain't hard to force jink on every turn. At least that's what I believe. Anyway, they are fun to play with so that's the only thing that matter

Does your group use random opponents? That prevents people from spamming anti-meq weapons.

Ya we do have random opponent (or we plan ahead but don't share list so people don't tailor).

Last game, it wasn't really AP3 the probleme, it was a big volume of fire.

I was running 4 time 4man squad bike with 2 special weapon in each + a 6man command squad with Apo, banner and 1 grenade launcher + sammael. With 2x 5mna termi + termi libby deepstriking turn 2. (I didn't had my land speeder support squadron with shroud because I didn't had my model with me)

Thing is, with a 4man squad (and probably 6 man too), when 20+ TL Bs4, poison shot are coming my way, I Jink for sure. Well each Kabalite and their mother does that. So 3 Ravager with 3 squad of kabalite make at least 2 of my squad jink. Then, you have 15 Jetbike that rapid fire poison too. Then, you have a lof of AP2 whatever the name that come too. Well... on turn 1, that was 4 out of 5 squad Jinking. (He stole initiative on 1st turn). So yeah, It might have been a couple mis-play by my part (I know I do a lot cuz i'm still trying to understand my army), but I really doubt it's as good as other people claim it to be. (well not here, we seem to have a 50-50 it's an ok force opinion here and I agree with that)

Edit: for the record, we were in Dawn of War deployment, and I didn't scout toward my own edge of the board. I obviousl should have done that to cut all those rapid fire from happening, that was a big misplay.

I have found that I usually do best by picking one flank of the enemy army and smashing down that flank, concentrating all my available firepower on one thing at a time till it is gone then moving to the next.

using things like the ravenwing support squadron to assault with as many bike units as I can every time for hammer of wrath hits and an opportunity to not get shot so I don't jink as often.

The thing is: You can't flank Jetbike. It's an army even more mobile than you are with Ravenwing. I was bunch up on 1 side.

Lost count of the games I have played with the new codex (play at least 2 games a week, sometimes up to 5!). So far I have drawn 2 and lost none.

I have played a lot of different armies (elder jetbikes, ad mec, IG, nids, DE/blood angels, the list goes on).

I have been playing mainly ravenwing for about a year and suddenly they are amazing and everyone who doesn't play them hates them.

I have also tried the lions blade and that's pretty good too.

Top tier? maybe not. able to hold their own? oh yes!

Overall it's pretty simple when it comes to DA. Deathwing again got the short end of the stick, Regular DA Marines are pretty good like all Marines but are more defensive tactic-wise, and Ravenwing is a very strong list again.

My ravenwing regularly fight grey cheese knights (lists consist of 2 5 man term squads, Lib ML3, and two dreadknights core).

And, while bloody, have come out ahead more than they lost.

Absolutely crushed an iron hands army, it was not a particularly strong list, but he was tabled T3...

I haven't had that many opportunities to play with the new book yet, the only games I've had since it came out were in a tournament. See this batrep for how I did: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/656019.page
The games were fun, I love the reroll jinking Ravenwing, it did frustrate my opponents some. I'm not a very good player yet, but I think I'm getting better as I finally managed to actually win a game in a tournament (my FLGS tournaments attract some VERY good players, so it's hard for newbies to do well). The new book definitely helped me do better, it is a huge improvement over the old one despite losing some good stuff.

I've played two games so far with a pure Ravenwing and mostly Ravenwing army against Orks and Sons of Horus (the battle reports are on my blog, link in signature if anyone interested). They were two great games and the Ravenwing performed brilliantly.
The command squad and black knights were the real winners, great durability, great firepower and great close combat ability. They are expensive, but are great all rounders. I haven't come up against a lot of ignores cover firepower yet, I think they will suffer against it.

I am really enjoying the codex after a couple of poor ones. I wouldn't say they were a match for the Eldar, Tau or Knights, but they should give quite a few victories and some decent games.

Ravenwing are utterly broken, especially if you dont have any AA units. The whole codex is broken and should be beaten with a nerfbat until it is dead, then beaten some more just for luck. No one should have access to crap like this.

MoO, butthurt Guard player whom faced down 3 fighters. And lost.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Ravenwing are utterly broken, especially if you dont have any AA units. The whole codex is broken and should be beaten with a nerfbat until it is dead, then beaten some more just for luck. No one should have access to crap like this.

MoO, butthurt Guard player whom faced down 3 fighters. And lost.

*ntroduces you to marine codex and skyhammer*

 raiden wrote:
My ravenwing regularly fight grey cheese knights (lists consist of 2 5 man term squads, Lib ML3, and two dreadknights core).

Grey Knights aren't exactly cheese anymore.


hell it's likely you had more grav guns then he had bodies

We're doing well yes. We have a few tricks, none of the over the top stuff people tend to complain about with other new codex.

People will qq about some ravenwing stuff, mostly rerollable jink saves. Of all the tricks the other "7.5" codex can pull, it is the easiest to counter. Ignore cover isn't that hard to get in most armies, and the ones that struggle would struggle against anything. Not up there with rerollable RP, D Spam, skyhammer, ect.

People also seem to think the DA dex is on par with the vanilla dex, but not really.

It had come a long way since the absolute bottom tier it was for the last few books. But don't expect "7.5" roflstomped results.

I am dreading playing my brother's Ravenwing army, both with my Crimson Fists and my Blood Angels. My Fists don't have a lot of Ignore Cover, so his stupid Dark Shroud is going to be a pain to deal with. I am not concerned with his Dark Talon, I have enough AA fire to take it down and it can't return fire. The Interceptor on the Support Squadron does scare me though.

The fact that DWA is nerfed does help me a bit. But Terminators never scared me anyway. Now he doesn't even sound like he plans on running DW at all, which is a shame.

3 games against DA with my Slaanesh Marines. They seem to be nice, I feel however that the 2+ rerollable cover save would have a bit too much if I wouldnt have brought my Sonic Dread and Noise Marines. All in all they were all quite enjoyable games, eventhough I dislike the mechanic of 2+ rerollables and Hit and Run. It felt like I had a chance and DA seems to be a pretty nice codex with some cool tricks.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am dreading playing my brother's Ravenwing army, both with my Crimson Fists and my Blood Angels. My Fists don't have a lot of Ignore Cover, so his stupid Dark Shroud is going to be a pain to deal with. I am not concerned with his Dark Talon, I have enough AA fire to take it down and it can't return fire. The Interceptor on the Support Squadron does scare me though.

The fact that DWA is nerfed does help me a bit. But Terminators never scared me anyway. Now he doesn't even sound like he plans on running DW at all, which is a shame.

Proxy some regular dudes as Legion of the Dammed. Point and click deep strIke assassination unit for dark shrouds. Thunderfires and whirlwinds are nice against the speeder squadron.

Also as a RW player, I really hate seeing dark reapers. In that case you have to hug cover and use the 3+ from stealth and ruins but you won't get the reroll.

 Silverthorne wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am dreading playing my brother's Ravenwing army, both with my Crimson Fists and my Blood Angels. My Fists don't have a lot of Ignore Cover, so his stupid Dark Shroud is going to be a pain to deal with. I am not concerned with his Dark Talon, I have enough AA fire to take it down and it can't return fire. The Interceptor on the Support Squadron does scare me though.

The fact that DWA is nerfed does help me a bit. But Terminators never scared me anyway. Now he doesn't even sound like he plans on running DW at all, which is a shame.

Proxy some regular dudes as Legion of the Dammed. Point and click deep strIke assassination unit for dark shrouds. Thunderfires and whirlwinds are nice against the speeder squadron.

Also as a RW player, I really hate seeing dark reapers. In that case you have to hug cover and use the 3+ from stealth and ruins but you won't get the reroll.

We don't list tailor. My Crimson Fists army and Blood Angels army are the same ones I would be fielding against any other army. I am out of Heavy Support slots as of right now, so no room for TFCs or Whirlies (though I want to get some of both). Since TFCs got a big ol' boost in this codex, I may pick some of them up and shift around part of the army (probably take my Missile Launcher Devs out to make space). My Sternguard will be able to help with their IC ammo and I might be able to get lucky with getting my Land Raider Redeemer to be able to blast stuff with the Flamestorm Cannons.

I do have quite a bit of IC in my Blood Angels due to lots of Flamers, Frag Cannons, so less of a concern there. Kinda wishing I built my Baal Predator with a Flamestorm and Heavy Flamer sponsons now.

I feel confident my blood angels could stand against my dark angels.

Jink saves don't help you in close combat...

 raiden wrote:
I feel confident my blood angels could stand against my dark angels.

Jink saves don't help you in close combat...

good luck getting into close combat when charging against improved overwatching hit and run superbikes.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 raiden wrote:
I feel confident my blood angels could stand against my dark angels.

Jink saves don't help you in close combat...

good luck getting into close combat when charging against improved overwatching hit and run superbikes.

Honestly, with my list I have plenty of units to soak BS2 overwatch, and sang guard hitting at I5 str5+ will not be a good day for your black knights.

Besides, if I can make your command sqaud jink, you lose bs2. Which, I have some amounts of ap2. Not to mention usually 1-2 fragiosos to template rend you out

Not to mention, I often make use of bikes with grav weaponry myself, coupled with some death company and a unit or two of sang guard with 1-2 frag cannon dreads dropping in makes a pretty decent overlord.

On that note, if you turbo for the free jink you still fire overwatch as if you jinked.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 raiden wrote:
My ravenwing regularly fight grey cheese knights (lists consist of 2 5 man term squads, Lib ML3, and two dreadknights core).

Grey Knights aren't exactly cheese anymore.


hell it's likely you had more grav guns then he had bodies

May I introduce you to allied drop pod with purifiers in it?

30" move dreadknights? 2 in a 1000 core list?

Over 10 base warp charges in a 1k list?

Or, perhaps, at higher points, add on a plasma oblit with allied assassin. Sure, its not particularly -just- GK at that point but...

Man I guess I'm just bad lol. Everytime I play my Ravenwing, I feel like they fall a little short. All the rules are REALLY nice, but when you take them together, it make no sense.

-Turbo-boost + Jink + no penalty have always been worst than Shoot + Jink + snap shot next turn (with scouts, on Dawn of War, you are assure to dish out more damage that way)

-Re-roll Jink seem sweet, but you don't want to Jink because you do craptastic shooting after.

-Overwatch BS2 is nice, but you don't benefit from it when you Jink (and your army is oriented toward the Jink).

Overall, nice rule, but I keep feeling that the rule push you toward Jink + Charge, in which you aren't that great at it (except Black Knight) due to low models count, normal strenght, low nbr of attack per model, normal Init.

I mean, at Ravenwing list will always have under 10 units probably. Out of which it's easy to make 6-7 Jink per turn. Take Marine (no skyhammer or whatever). Their 2-3 regular marine make you jink 2-3 squad if they pick different target. Then, their Centurion or Pred or Dev or Vindi or Thunderfire Cannon will make another 2-3 jink (depending on how much heavy support he have and what did he take). Considering I have 9 Units at 1500pts, well that's more than half my army who Jink (and 2 of my 9 units are Termi, so if they made 6 unit Jink, that's almost all my bikes). I've watch battle report on youtube to see whap people do differently, and usually what I see is them going against people who focus their command squad or the Support Squadron. It's sad, but people in my area don't make those mistake lol. They will shoot a unit unitl you say: Jink, then move on to the next.