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If I may farseer you obviously don't have a great eldar army because the list in anyones book is Eldar, Necron, SM, and Tau I have won and lost games against cheesedar before and also been decimated by Eldar and Necrons it all depends on the player, but there are many ways around the tau gunline and seems like you are just one of those people who need to learn the way around it. So please if you feel this is wrong why not say a detailed reason why we are op instead of just listing things that are wrong to begin with. Like for instance riptides are not that bad actually half the time they kill themselves and in most cases a smart player will just engage in melee with it and renders 230pts useless. So have fun sir

as a dark eldar player, I will say, tau are not OP, however, they are annoying and not fun to play against for me, because all my survivability comes from cover, and tau have access to alot of ignores cover.

Tau stuggle with alpa strike lists (drop pods, or in my case, assault on turn 2) if they are tied up (or dead) via combat turn 2, they can't shoot.

scatbikes are OP, razorback spam is OP, steel hordes are OP, but tau are not on the level of those.

I say they are tier 2, eldar are tier 1.

Happy wargaming,

-mikey

JinxDragon wrote:

Knowing that you are about to play one of the more boring games of Warhammer 40k quickly becomes a 'why bother' exercise... that is the biggest power of the Tau, demoralizing their opponents with boredom!

Lel

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:
What I'm saying is that their whole codex is unbelievably strong.

Couldn't be farther from the truth in regards to the Tau codex. "The whole codex is unbelievably strong," yet everyone playing Tau uses the same 3-4 units because...because we're just stupid and don't know how our own codex is supposed to work?

Meanwhile, this is actually the case for the Eldar codex; there is literally not one bad unit in the entire book. The only thing that even comes close is the wraithlord and that's just because the spammable wraithknight is so much better, not because the wraithlord is really bad...it's just kinda pointless. But in any case your opinion as an Eldar player is ultimately worthless, you simply have no right to talk.

It really does come off as trolling, like how can anyone seriously believe this? How can someone play hands down the most broken army in the game and yet keep going on about Tau, when the vast majority of the community, full of Tau haters and donkey-caves in general, is still reasonable enough to see the power of the Eldar codex and rank the books appropriately? But whatever.

I don't even necessarily disagree with the idea that Tau need some nerfs. I hate the Tau codex and I'm convinced at this point the army needs to be re-imagined from the ground up because GW's minor tinkering isn't going to change the fact that the army doesn't participate in three out of the game's four phases by design. I'd be cutting gak from the book left and right if I were in charge, and Supporting Fire would be the first thing to go. But if you want to fix Tau proper and make the army more engaging or just plain fun to play with and against then you can't just take, take, take, you need to give something back, too. Massive, heavy-handed, codex-wide nerfs like some people are calling for isn't the way to go. Some specific things need to be nerfed, and many others need buffs, but you can't even mention the word "Tau" and "buff" in the same sentence without some people losing their fething minds.

After seeing the kinda crap I've seen in regards to Tau over the years it's really got me convinced that people just don't want Tau to be viable at all. According to some Tau aren't even supposed to exist, let alone actually win games, and every change they want for Tau is just to see to that end. Because if you make the army worthless and unplayable then you won't have to see the models on the table anymore, and it's easier to pretend they're not even there.

Yeah, the Tau Codex as a whole is certainly not OP.

If I see Riptides, I go nopenopenope, sure.

But if I see stealth suits or something, I don't really see them as big problem. And I play CSM, lol.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:
What I'm saying is that their whole codex is unbelievably strong.

Couldn't be farther from the truth in regards to the Tau codex. "The whole codex is unbelievably strong," yet everyone playing Tau uses the same 3-4 units because...because we're just stupid and don't know how our own codex is supposed to work?

Meanwhile, this is actually the case for the Eldar codex; there is literally not one bad unit in the entire book. The only thing that even comes close is the wraithlord and that's just because the spammable wraithknight is so much better, not because the wraithlord is really bad...it's just kinda pointless. But in any case your opinion as an Eldar player is ultimately worthless, you simply have no right to talk.

It really does come off as trolling, like how can anyone seriously believe this? How can someone play hands down the most broken army in the game and yet keep going on about Tau, when the vast majority of the community, full of Tau haters and donkey-caves in general, is still reasonable enough to see the power of the Eldar codex and rank the books appropriately? But whatever.

I don't even necessarily disagree with the idea that Tau need some nerfs. I hate the Tau codex and I'm convinced at this point the army needs to be re-imagined from the ground up because GW's minor tinkering isn't going to change the fact that the army doesn't participate in three out of the game's four phases by design. I'd be cutting gak from the book left and right if I were in charge, and Supporting Fire would be the first thing to go. But if you want to fix Tau proper and make the army more engaging or just plain fun to play with and against then you can't just take, take, take, you need to give something back, too. Massive, heavy-handed, codex-wide nerfs like some people are calling for isn't the way to go. Some specific things need to be nerfed, and many others need buffs, but you can't even mention the word "Tau" and "buff" in the same sentence without some people losing their fething minds.

After seeing the kinda crap I've seen in regards to Tau over the years it's really got me convinced that people just don't want Tau to be viable at all. According to some Tau aren't even supposed to exist, let alone actually win games, and every change they want for Tau is just to see to that end. Because if you make the army worthless and unplayable then you won't have to see the models on the table anymore, and it's easier to pretend they're not even there.

Quoted and Exalted for truth.

Tonight I played my Eldar (Guardian Battlehost + Aspect Host) against a Tau army that had a Riptide, an XV-109 Y'Vahra, and an XV-107 R'Varna (and FNP on all three) at 1750 points. Eldar won. That is the level of power of Craftworld Eldar. Tau are nothing in comparison to what the Eldar codex is capable of bringing.

The reason people only see the same units in Tau is because those are literally the only good units; there is simply no reason to take the other choices as they are simply sub-optimal. I agree that the Tau codex does not need a nerf. What is needs is a substantial redesign. Why can't they have units that are meant for assaulting? Why can't they have psychic powers, or even something like IG orders? Where is the mobility with the codex? Are markerlights a benefit to the army or a crutch?

Knowing GW, all they will do is change some points values around and slap the book full of formations. Hey, it might even fix more problems then it inevitably creates.

Farseer Uruvion this is the second thread you have pitched your crap in. If you can't see it for yourself I'll enlighten you.
In both threads multiple people have told you that Tau as a whole are not overpowered. All you reply with is that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
It's obvious that you have an extremely negative bias toward Tau and you keep putting forth terrible arguments because you have no real argument to begin with.

Yes, it's true have have a handful of strong units that can be a pain in the arse to deal with.
But how come 99% of people can still deal with these fine without multiple Wraithknights on the field? Maybe it has something to do with ability to play the game? Can you even win a game without bringing at least two Wraithknights?

Like seriously you were complaining that Vespids are overpowered because they have S5 AP3 weapons, have you read your codex? What are Darkreapers armed with these days (I haven't seen the new Eldar codex) last codex they were S5 AP3 and I'm betting they are still that. That means they must be horribly broken like Vespids.

You just joined the forums and all you have done is whinge, bitch and complain about how the Tau are broken this and Tau are OP that.

How about you use the forum for what it was made for and contribute to the community and try to learn from others instead of trying to ram your opinion down everyone else's throat.

 master of ordinance wrote:


I have played alongside and against Tau. They are broken as hell, but so are the other 3 metadex's.

False but you can think what you want, ignorance is bliss as they say.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:
What I'm saying is that their whole codex is unbelievably strong.

Couldn't be farther from the truth in regards to the Tau codex. "The whole codex is unbelievably strong," yet everyone playing Tau uses the same 3-4 units because...because we're just stupid and don't know how our own codex is supposed to work?

Meanwhile, this is actually the case for the Eldar codex; there is literally not one bad unit in the entire book. The only thing that even comes close is the wraithlord and that's just because the spammable wraithknight is so much better, not because the wraithlord is really bad...it's just kinda pointless. But in any case your opinion as an Eldar player is ultimately worthless, you simply have no right to talk.

It really does come off as trolling, like how can anyone seriously believe this? How can someone play hands down the most broken army in the game and yet keep going on about Tau, when the vast majority of the community, full of Tau haters and donkey-caves in general, is still reasonable enough to see the power of the Eldar codex and rank the books appropriately? But whatever.

I don't even necessarily disagree with the idea that Tau need some nerfs. I hate the Tau codex and I'm convinced at this point the army needs to be re-imagined from the ground up because GW's minor tinkering isn't going to change the fact that the army doesn't participate in three out of the game's four phases by design. I'd be cutting gak from the book left and right if I were in charge, and Supporting Fire would be the first thing to go. But if you want to fix Tau proper and make the army more engaging or just plain fun to play with and against then you can't just take, take, take, you need to give something back, too. Massive, heavy-handed, codex-wide nerfs like some people are calling for isn't the way to go. Some specific things need to be nerfed, and many others need buffs, but you can't even mention the word "Tau" and "buff" in the same sentence without some people losing their fething minds.

After seeing the kinda crap I've seen in regards to Tau over the years it's really got me convinced that people just don't want Tau to be viable at all. According to some Tau aren't even supposed to exist, let alone actually win games, and every change they want for Tau is just to see to that end. Because if you make the army worthless and unplayable then you won't have to see the models on the table anymore, and it's easier to pretend they're not even there.

Okay, let's have a game where I use Storm Guardians, Rangers, Illic Nightspear, Shining Spears and some Night Weavers and we'll see how amazingly destroyed I get.

 gmaleron wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:


I have played alongside and against Tau. They are broken as hell, but so are the other 3 metadex's.

False but you can think what you want, ignorance is bliss as they say.

Really? In what imaginary world are Tau not over powered? Its the same with the Dark Angels, the Necrons, the Eldar and the Space Marines. They just beat the seven bells of hell out of their opponents and stomp all over them.

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
Farseer Uruvion this is the second thread you have pitched your crap in. If you can't see it for yourself I'll enlighten you.
In both threads multiple people have told you that Tau as a whole are not overpowered. All you reply with is that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
It's obvious that you have an extremely negative bias toward Tau and you keep putting forth terrible arguments because you have no real argument to begin with.

Yes, it's true have have a handful of strong units that can be a pain in the arse to deal with.
But how come 99% of people can still deal with these fine without multiple Wraithknights on the field? Maybe it has something to do with ability to play the game? Can you even win a game without bringing at least two Wraithknights?

Like seriously you were complaining that Vespids are overpowered because they have S5 AP3 weapons, have you read your codex? What are Darkreapers armed with these days (I haven't seen the new Eldar codex) last codex they were S5 AP3 and I'm betting they are still that. That means they must be horribly broken like Vespids.

You just joined the forums and all you have done is whinge, bitch and complain about how the Tau are broken this and Tau are OP that.

How about you use the forum for what it was made for and contribute to the community and try to learn from others instead of trying to ram your opinion down everyone else's throat.

You obviously haven't been reading my posts. I always claim that Eldar are OP too. I'm referencing it in comparison to the other fair codexes.
Before you try making a counterpoint, please do some sort of research. You're taking everything out of proportion.
I only ever said I use dual Wraithknights to deal with Tau, just so I don't have to deal with the cheese. If I play against anyone, I use weakened lists or just don't use Eldar at all.

Please get help for your ignorance. It will help you in life.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Really? In what imaginary world are Tau not over powered? Its the same with the Dark Angels, the Necrons, the Eldar and the Space Marines. They just beat the seven bells of hell out of their opponents and stomp all over them.

Nothing imaginary about it, yes they are a strong army but nothing higher than upper mid tier at the moment especially when compared to the armies you just listed. As mentioned by several people the Tau only have a few units that are good and a lot of the Codex is useless. Maybe you can explain why you think Tau are overpowered instead of just saying they are would be a great help so I can better understand your reasoning.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

You obviously haven't been reading my posts. I always claim that Eldar are OP too. I'm referencing it in comparison to the other fair codexes.
Before you try making a counterpoint, please do some sort of research. You're taking everything out of proportion.
I only ever said I use dual Wraithknights to deal with Tau, just so I don't have to deal with the cheese. If I play against anyone, I use weakened lists or just don't use Eldar at all.

Please get help for your ignorance. It will help you in life.

You literally said that everything in the Tau codex is OP a couple pages ago so you can't get on peoples case about ignorance before you look at yourself. And the fact that you think a standard Tau Army is to me screams that you as a general may need to change some things up when playing against them, instead of bitching and moaning about it why not talk to Tau players to try to find good ways to counter them? And don't pull the whole nothing works bowl excuse because trust me I play in a very competitive environment and my Tau have the ability to lose just like every army.

 gmaleron wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Really? In what imaginary world are Tau not over powered? Its the same with the Dark Angels, the Necrons, the Eldar and the Space Marines. They just beat the seven bells of hell out of their opponents and stomp all over them.

Nothing imaginary about it, yes they are a strong army but nothing higher than upper mid tier at the moment especially when compared to the armies you just listed. As mentioned by several people the Tau only have a few units that are good and a lot of the Codex is useless. Maybe you can explain why you think Tau are overpowered instead of just saying they are would be a great help so I can better understand your reasoning.

Quite simple really. They can counter everything I have and do it well. Their riptides wipe out entire vehicle squadrons and infantry sections on their own, the Hammerheads snipe at long range and take out specific tanks or infantry sections, their basic gun has me out ranged and outgunned and ignores my armour. I can go to ground and use cover with my camo gear but the magic marker light lets them ignore that.
Nothing I have can compete with them on an equal footing.

 gmaleron wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Really? In what imaginary world are Tau not over powered? Its the same with the Dark Angels, the Necrons, the Eldar and the Space Marines. They just beat the seven bells of hell out of their opponents and stomp all over them.

Nothing imaginary about it, yes they are a strong army but nothing higher than upper mid tier at the moment especially when compared to the armies you just listed. As mentioned by several people the Tau only have a few units that are good and a lot of the Codex is useless. Maybe you can explain why you think Tau are overpowered instead of just saying they are would be a great help so I can better understand your reasoning.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

You obviously haven't been reading my posts. I always claim that Eldar are OP too. I'm referencing it in comparison to the other fair codexes.
Before you try making a counterpoint, please do some sort of research. You're taking everything out of proportion.
I only ever said I use dual Wraithknights to deal with Tau, just so I don't have to deal with the cheese. If I play against anyone, I use weakened lists or just don't use Eldar at all.

Please get help for your ignorance. It will help you in life.

You literally said that everything in the Tau codex is OP a couple pages ago so you can't get on peoples case about ignorance before you look at yourself. And the fact that you think a standard Tau Army is to me screams that you as a general may need to change some things up when playing against them, instead of bitching and moaning about it why not talk to Tau players to try to find good ways to counter them? And don't pull the whole nothing works bowl excuse because trust me I play in a very competitive environment and my Tau have the ability to lose just like every army.

I'm not going to take this post seriously if you're not able to think with intelligence.

Every army has a potential to lose. Of course they do.
You're missing my point, like many others.

Let me try and spell it out for you nice and slow...

Eldar are overpowered. Okay? Still with me?
Necrons are slightly OP. Not everything is for them though.
Daemons are OP.
Tau are overpowered. No doubt about it. Are you seeing what I'm trying to point out?

Stop trying to rush to your battlestations just because your saintly Tau are being talked about.
I'm starting to lose effort in this as people just spout out illogical arguments spurred by blind ignorance.
Take a step back from your device and reevaluate yourself before posting. It will help.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Really? In what imaginary world are Tau not over powered? Its the same with the Dark Angels, the Necrons, the Eldar and the Space Marines. They just beat the seven bells of hell out of their opponents and stomp all over them.

Nothing imaginary about it, yes they are a strong army but nothing higher than upper mid tier at the moment especially when compared to the armies you just listed. As mentioned by several people the Tau only have a few units that are good and a lot of the Codex is useless. Maybe you can explain why you think Tau are overpowered instead of just saying they are would be a great help so I can better understand your reasoning.

 Farseer Uruvion wrote:

You obviously haven't been reading my posts. I always claim that Eldar are OP too. I'm referencing it in comparison to the other fair codexes.
Before you try making a counterpoint, please do some sort of research. You're taking everything out of proportion.
I only ever said I use dual Wraithknights to deal with Tau, just so I don't have to deal with the cheese. If I play against anyone, I use weakened lists or just don't use Eldar at all.

Please get help for your ignorance. It will help you in life.

You literally said that everything in the Tau codex is OP a couple pages ago so you can't get on peoples case about ignorance before you look at yourself. And the fact that you think a standard Tau Army is to me screams that you as a general may need to change some things up when playing against them, instead of bitching and moaning about it why not talk to Tau players to try to find good ways to counter them? And don't pull the whole nothing works bowl excuse because trust me I play in a very competitive environment and my Tau have the ability to lose just like every army.

I'm not going to take this post seriously if you're not able to think with intelligence.

Every army has a potential to lose. Of course they do.
You're missing my point, like many others.

Let me try and spell it out for you nice and slow...

Eldar are overpowered. Okay? Still with me?
Necrons are slightly OP. Not everything is for them though.
Daemons are OP.
Tau are overpowered. No doubt about it. Are you seeing what I'm trying to point out?

Stop trying to rush to your battlestations just because your saintly Tau are being talked about.
I'm starting to lose effort in this as people just spout out illogical arguments spurred by blind ignorance.
Take a step back from your device and reevaluate yourself before posting. It will help.

Yet another exalt Farseer.

Do you know that he actually had the gaul to call me inexperienced in the other thread? I have been playing this game for years and years, probably long before he got involved and he calls me inexperienced?
Oh, and he was also calling for yet more buffs to the Tau.
Some people....

 master of ordinance wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Really? In what imaginary world are Tau not over powered? Its the same with the Dark Angels, the Necrons, the Eldar and the Space Marines. They just beat the seven bells of hell out of their opponents and stomp all over them.

Nothing imaginary about it, yes they are a strong army but nothing higher than upper mid tier at the moment especially when compared to the armies you just listed. As mentioned by several people the Tau only have a few units that are good and a lot of the Codex is useless. Maybe you can explain why you think Tau are overpowered instead of just saying they are would be a great help so I can better understand your reasoning.

Quite simple really. They can counter everything I have and do it well. Their riptides wipe out entire vehicle squadrons and infantry sections on their own, the Hammerheads snipe at long range and take out specific tanks or infantry sections, their basic gun has me out ranged and outgunned and ignores my armour. I can go to ground and use cover with my camo gear but the magic marker light lets them ignore that.
Nothing I have can compete with them on an equal footing.

QFT.

You accuse me of posting unintelligent posts yet all you two are coming off as typical Tau haters who instead of thinking constructively of ways to overcome an army complain and moan and demand army be nerfed into the ground to satisfy you. All I've seen you guys do in this thread is complain and moan how every single unit in the Tau codex is broken which is clearly not the case as has been demonstrated by multiple tell players in this thread. The fact that you continue to ignore what everyone else has said continuously or dismiss their comments as "you don't know what you're talking about" proves how immature you really are. Tau are not broken no matter how much you wish them to be, instead of crying think constructively.

So Farseer Uruvion, you'd say power levels are like this?


Tau > Eldar > Daemons > Necrons > Everything else?

If so... I have to lol. Excuse me while I do...


Necrons are overpowered because of 2 things: Decurion is too good (much more acceptable if it was re-roll 1's instead of +1 to RP) and Wraiths (because GW for some reason decided an already OP unit should get buffed because reasons).

Daemons? Aside from Tzeentch summon spam, Tzeentch flying circus and Tzeentch re-roll 2++ shenanigans, daemons are pretty meh.

Eldar are overpowered because of Scatbikes, WKs, D-spam and apparently Warp Spiders? (This I'm not so sure on as I haven't faced Eldar since way back in 5th. This is just from what I've heard on the interwebs.)

Tau? I mean sure there's the IA Riptide but that's it really...

It's more like:

Eldar > Necrons > Daemons and Space Marines > Dark Angels and Tau (this I'm not to sure of since I haven't seen the new DA in game yet) > Everything else > Chaos Space Marines (we miss you DAs </3)



And before you go calling me a Tau lover... this is coming from the guy who has only won against Tau once since their new codex, and that was back when 7th first came out.>

MattKingsley Mechanicum is well ahead of Tau as well. They have the ability to have 30 inch range 18 shot grav weapons which absolutely murders riptides and other monstrous creatures as well as their standard troopers being able to wound anything with a toughness value on a roll of a six. On top of that they also can boost their ballistic skill to 7 and get 3 shot plasma guns, they are absolutely dirty against Tau and Eldar wraithknight spam and MEQ armies in general. I'm kind of surprised they are constantly overlooked but they are a very strong army. This is especially true when thanks to Imperium of Man armies ally shenanigans you put them all in drop pods with plasma and haywire rifles and annihilate everything.

Ah yes, forgot about Cult Mech and Skitarri, again probably because no one here plays them.

That said, Skitarii only get BS7 for 1 turn, and those 3 shot plasma guns aren't cheap... (Vanguard with Plasma costs ~40pts from memory) Unless of course you run the restrictive WD formation with Knights and Cult Mech to get free upgrades.

That's the one I played against and its rough, but the plasma guns aren't even the dirtiest part. 30 inch 18 shot grav weapons, it will wreck any Riptide or Crsis Suit unit with ease. I believe the unit is the Kataphron destroyers and all of that for only a hundred sixty five points.

Yeah Kataphron Destroyers with Grav are broken has heck. No two ways about it.

 gmaleron wrote:
You accuse me of posting unintelligent posts yet all you two are coming off as typical Tau haters who instead of thinking constructively of ways to overcome an army complain and moan and demand army be nerfed into the ground to satisfy you. All I've seen you guys do in this thread is complain and moan how every single unit in the Tau codex is broken which is clearly not the case as has been demonstrated by multiple tell players in this thread. The fact that you continue to ignore what everyone else has said continuously or dismiss their comments as "you don't know what you're talking about" proves how immature you really are. Tau are not broken no matter how much you wish them to be, instead of crying think constructively.

All right, you tell me how my Imperial Guard are meant to fight something which hard counters everything that we have. You tell us how an army which has been nerfed and nerfed into a static gunline force is meant to compete with a fast and mobile army which has them out ranged and out gunned. You tell us how we are supposed to even get close when everything we have has to endure 1 to 2 turns of indiscriminate pulse fire which ignores our armour and with the magic markerlights is firing at BS5 and/or ignoring our cover - the only defence that we get. You tell us how we are supposed to fight when the rapetides/hammerheads destroy most of our armour on turn 1 and the proceed to massacre our infantry.

Go on. Tell this poor n00b how its done.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
You accuse me of posting unintelligent posts yet all you two are coming off as typical Tau haters who instead of thinking constructively of ways to overcome an army complain and moan and demand army be nerfed into the ground to satisfy you. All I've seen you guys do in this thread is complain and moan how every single unit in the Tau codex is broken which is clearly not the case as has been demonstrated by multiple tell players in this thread. The fact that you continue to ignore what everyone else has said continuously or dismiss their comments as "you don't know what you're talking about" proves how immature you really are. Tau are not broken no matter how much you wish them to be, instead of crying think constructively.

All right, you tell me how my Imperial Guard are meant to fight something which hard counters everything that we have. You tell us how an army which has been nerfed and nerfed into a static gunline force is meant to compete with a fast and mobile army which has them out ranged and out gunned. You tell us how we are supposed to even get close when everything we have has to endure 1 to 2 turns of indiscriminate pulse fire which ignores our armour and with the magic markerlights is firing at BS5 and/or ignoring our cover - the only defence that we get. You tell us how we are supposed to fight when the rapetides/hammerheads destroy most of our armour on turn 1 and the proceed to massacre our infantry.

Go on. Tell this poor n00b how its done.

Exalted.

 master of ordinance wrote:

All right, you tell me how my Imperial Guard are meant to fight something which hard counters everything that we have. You tell us how an army which has been nerfed and nerfed into a static gunline force is meant to compete with a fast and mobile army which has them out ranged and out gunned. You tell us how we are supposed to even get close when everything we have has to endure 1 to 2 turns of indiscriminate pulse fire which ignores our armour and with the magic markerlights is firing at BS5 and/or ignoring our cover - the only defence that we get. You tell us how we are supposed to fight when the rapetides/hammerheads destroy most of our armour on turn 1 and the proceed to massacre our infantry.
Go on. Tell this poor n00b how its done.

First and foremost stop being so defensive and angry, the inexperienced comment was directed towards Farseer because he even accused vespid of all things of being OP and the entire Tau codex. If that came off as a broad generalization consider it a side effect of hearing the same complaints over and over again in particular from Imperial armies while they ignore all the shenanigans they can do at the same time. And believe it or not I am actually in Imperial Guard player first and foremost, I am currently reconstructing an Elysian Drop Troop army as we speak after having to sell them due to a cancer scare and medical bills.

The best way to counter Tau with Imperial Guard I have found is mass Leman Russ spam, Armor 14 is still difficult for Tau to punch through especially at long range. Riptides need a six at best to glance the vehicle or risk a Nova Charge and even then they need a 6 to penetrate it. This also renders the scary Fire Warriors useless when presented with a literal wall of mobile armor 14. You mention Marker Lights, guess what eliminate them first and the Army's effectiveness goes down quite considerably. Also they are very easy to kill, Wyrvens and Leman Russ Eradicator are amazing at this and if you are having issue killing toughness three or four model with a 5 or 4 plus save then you have some other issues going on.

The Hammerhead is also not that good, considering the fact that without Marker Lights it has a 50% chance to miss outside of Longstrike, it is why the vast majority of Tau players take the Sky Ray over it. Also the Riptide is not nearly as scary in regards to its offensive capabilities as you make it out to be. Yes it is durable but outside of getting within 12 inches of you to utilize its fusion blaster which almost will never happen because you're just asking for it to get tar pit it by swarms of Guardsmen who are fearless with a priest it will have a difficult time harming the tanks. Vendettas are also good units both in terms of Firepower and are great Psychological weapons, a lot of fire will be taken off your ground forces to ensure it is brought down quickly. Another army list that I have found that works very well is my Elysian drop troops. Having that many Flyers on the table really cuts down on the damage received by Tau armies. If you would like to know some more advice and tips feel free to ask as long as you do it in a mature and constructive way.

Third and finally you are forgetting one of if not the BIGGEST strength of an Imperial Army, your Ally ability. You are literally Battle Brothers with over half of the Books in the game, cant find anything in your current book to deal with a particular item? Congratulations you now can borrow something from one of your Battle Brothers to fill the hole to accent your army quite nicely. This is the most overlooked things I have seen, especially when people are thinking of ways to construct an army to deal with a particular opponent they are having issue with, especially for Codex's that have not been updated yet this goes a long way in balancing things out until you a new book comes out, or even can be a permanent addition to your force.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
You accuse me of posting unintelligent posts yet all you two are coming off as typical Tau haters who instead of thinking constructively of ways to overcome an army complain and moan and demand army be nerfed into the ground to satisfy you. All I've seen you guys do in this thread is complain and moan how every single unit in the Tau codex is broken which is clearly not the case as has been demonstrated by multiple tell players in this thread. The fact that you continue to ignore what everyone else has said continuously or dismiss their comments as "you don't know what you're talking about" proves how immature you really are. Tau are not broken no matter how much you wish them to be, instead of crying think constructively.

All right, you tell me how my Imperial Guard are meant to fight something which hard counters everything that we have. You tell us how an army which has been nerfed and nerfed into a static gunline force is meant to compete with a fast and mobile army which has them out ranged and out gunned. You tell us how we are supposed to even get close when everything we have has to endure 1 to 2 turns of indiscriminate pulse fire which ignores our armour and with the magic markerlights is firing at BS5 and/or ignoring our cover - the only defence that we get. You tell us how we are supposed to fight when the rapetides/hammerheads destroy most of our armour on turn 1 and the proceed to massacre our infantry.

Go on. Tell this poor n00b how its done.

You do realise a Hammerhead with a Railgun has a 7.4% (9.2% at BS5) chance to actually get a destroyed result on your AV14 Leman Russ tanks and only a 14.8% (18.5% at BS5) chance to get the same on AV12 of a Chimera. Not exactly dependable odds, and that without any coversaves. Your very unlucky if your opponent every time manages to destroy your armour turn one.

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
You do realise a Hammerhead with a Railgun has a 7.4% (9.2% at BS5) chance to actually get a destroyed result on your AV14 Leman Russ tanks and only a 14.8% (18.5% at BS5) chance to get the same on AV12 of a Chimera. Not exactly dependable odds, and that without any coversaves. Your very unlucky if your opponent every time manages to destroy your armour turn one.

Thank you for the Statistics (to put it plainly I suck at math ) I knew it was an exaggeration but having statistical proof helps!

 gmaleron wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

All right, you tell me how my Imperial Guard are meant to fight something which hard counters everything that we have. You tell us how an army which has been nerfed and nerfed into a static gunline force is meant to compete with a fast and mobile army which has them out ranged and out gunned. You tell us how we are supposed to even get close when everything we have has to endure 1 to 2 turns of indiscriminate pulse fire which ignores our armour and with the magic markerlights is firing at BS5 and/or ignoring our cover - the only defence that we get. You tell us how we are supposed to fight when the rapetides/hammerheads destroy most of our armour on turn 1 and the proceed to massacre our infantry.
Go on. Tell this poor n00b how its done.

First and foremost stop being so defensive and angry, the inexperienced comment was directed towards Farseer because he even accused vespid of all things of being OP and the entire Tau codex. If that came off as a broad generalization consider it a side effect of hearing the same complaints over and over again in particular from Imperial armies while they ignore all the shenanigans they can do at the same time. And believe it or not I am actually in Imperial Guard player first and foremost, I am currently reconstructing an Elysian Drop Troop army as we speak after having to sell them due to a cancer scare and medical bills.

The best way to counter Tau with Imperial Guard I have found is mass Leman Russ spam, Armor 14 is still difficult for Tau to punch through especially at long range. Riptides need a six at best to glance the vehicle or risk a Nova Charge and even then they need a 6 to penetrate it. This also renders the scary Fire Warriors useless when presented with a literal wall of mobile armor 14. You mention Marker Lights, guess what eliminate them first and the Army's effectiveness goes down quite considerably. Also they are very easy to kill, Wyrvens and Leman Russ Eradicator are amazing at this and if you are having issue killing toughness three or four model with a 5 or 4 plus save then you have some other issues going on.

The Hammerhead is also not that good, considering the fact that without Marker Lights it has a 50% chance to miss outside of Longstrike, it is why the vast majority of Tau players take the Sky Ray over it. Also the Riptide is not nearly as scary in regards to its offensive capabilities as you make it out to be. Yes it is durable but outside of getting within 12 inches of you to utilize its fusion blaster which almost will never happen because you're just asking for it to get tar pit it by swarms of Guardsmen who are fearless with a priest it will have a difficult time harming the tanks. Vendettas are also good units both in terms of Firepower and are great Psychological weapons, a lot of fire will be taken off your ground forces to ensure it is brought down quickly. Another army list that I have found that works very well is my Elysian drop troops. Having that many Flyers on the table really cuts down on the damage received by Tau armies. If you would like to know some more advice and tips feel free to ask as long as you do it in a mature and constructive way.

Third and finally you are forgetting one of if not the BIGGEST strength of an Imperial Army, your Ally ability. You are literally Battle Brothers with over half of the Books in the game, cant find anything in your current book to deal with a particular item? Congratulations you now can borrow something from one of your Battle Brothers to fill the hole to accent your army quite nicely. This is the most overlooked things I have seen, especially when people are thinking of ways to construct an army to deal with a particular opponent they are having issue with, especially for Codex's that have not been updated yet this goes a long way in balancing things out until you a new book comes out, or even can be a permanent addition to your force.

I couldn't agree more. As a Tau player I hate the cheap AV14 guard can put on the field. And just generally I hate how guard can get such good flyers for so cheap, their so effective for their points you could almost call them OP
bring a pair of them Vulture gunships with twin-linked Punisher cannons, you will rape more than Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gmaleron wrote:

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
You do realise a Hammerhead with a Railgun has a 7.4% (9.2% at BS5) chance to actually get a destroyed result on your AV14 Leman Russ tanks and only a 14.8% (18.5% at BS5) chance to get the same on AV12 of a Chimera. Not exactly dependable odds, and that without any coversaves. Your very unlucky if your opponent every time manages to destroy your armour turn one.

Thank you for the Statistics (to put it plainly I suck at math ) I knew it was an exaggeration but having statistical proof helps!

No problem, anything to show people how ineffective Hammerhead are lol

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

All right, you tell me how my Imperial Guard are meant to fight something which hard counters everything that we have. You tell us how an army which has been nerfed and nerfed into a static gunline force is meant to compete with a fast and mobile army which has them out ranged and out gunned. You tell us how we are supposed to even get close when everything we have has to endure 1 to 2 turns of indiscriminate pulse fire which ignores our armour and with the magic markerlights is firing at BS5 and/or ignoring our cover - the only defence that we get. You tell us how we are supposed to fight when the rapetides/hammerheads destroy most of our armour on turn 1 and the proceed to massacre our infantry.
Go on. Tell this poor n00b how its done.

First and foremost stop being so defensive and angry, the inexperienced comment was directed towards Farseer because he even accused vespid of all things of being OP and the entire Tau codex. If that came off as a broad generalization consider it a side effect of hearing the same complaints over and over again in particular from Imperial armies while they ignore all the shenanigans they can do at the same time. And believe it or not I am actually in Imperial Guard player first and foremost, I am currently reconstructing an Elysian Drop Troop army as we speak after having to sell them due to a cancer scare and medical bills.

The best way to counter Tau with Imperial Guard I have found is mass Leman Russ spam, Armor 14 is still difficult for Tau to punch through especially at long range. Riptides need a six at best to glance the vehicle or risk a Nova Charge and even then they need a 6 to penetrate it. This also renders the scary Fire Warriors useless when presented with a literal wall of mobile armor 14. You mention Marker Lights, guess what eliminate them first and the Army's effectiveness goes down quite considerably. Also they are very easy to kill, Wyrvens and Leman Russ Eradicator are amazing at this and if you are having issue killing toughness three or four model with a 5 or 4 plus save then you have some other issues going on.

The Hammerhead is also not that good, considering the fact that without Marker Lights it has a 50% chance to miss outside of Longstrike, it is why the vast majority of Tau players take the Sky Ray over it. Also the Riptide is not nearly as scary in regards to its offensive capabilities as you make it out to be. Yes it is durable but outside of getting within 12 inches of you to utilize its fusion blaster which almost will never happen because you're just asking for it to get tar pit it by swarms of Guardsmen who are fearless with a priest it will have a difficult time harming the tanks. Vendettas are also good units both in terms of Firepower and are great Psychological weapons, a lot of fire will be taken off your ground forces to ensure it is brought down quickly. Another army list that I have found that works very well is my Elysian drop troops. Having that many Flyers on the table really cuts down on the damage received by Tau armies. If you would like to know some more advice and tips feel free to ask as long as you do it in a mature and constructive way.

Third and finally you are forgetting one of if not the BIGGEST strength of an Imperial Army, your Ally ability. You are literally Battle Brothers with over half of the Books in the game, cant find anything in your current book to deal with a particular item? Congratulations you now can borrow something from one of your Battle Brothers to fill the hole to accent your army quite nicely. This is the most overlooked things I have seen, especially when people are thinking of ways to construct an army to deal with a particular opponent they are having issue with, especially for Codex's that have not been updated yet this goes a long way in balancing things out until you a new book comes out, or even can be a permanent addition to your force.

I couldn't agree more. As a Tau player I hate the cheap AV14 guard can put on the field. And just generally I hate how guard can get such good flyers for so cheap, their so effective for their points you could almost call them OP
bring a pair of them Vulture gunships with twin-linked Punisher cannons, you will rape more than Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gmaleron wrote:

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
You do realise a Hammerhead with a Railgun has a 7.4% (9.2% at BS5) chance to actually get a destroyed result on your AV14 Leman Russ tanks and only a 14.8% (18.5% at BS5) chance to get the same on AV12 of a Chimera. Not exactly dependable odds, and that without any coversaves. Your very unlucky if your opponent every time manages to destroy your armour turn one.

Thank you for the Statistics (to put it plainly I suck at math ) I knew it was an exaggeration but having statistical proof helps!

No problem, anything to show people how ineffective Hammerhead are lol

Cheap?! We are paying 120 points for an Exterminator, and that is 4 TL Autocannon shots with a 36" range and a HB in the hull. Our tanks vary from fairly priced to a little expensive to massively over priced (Demolisher I am looking at you) and they are very very vulnerable in close assault. Or to flanking attacks. Or to Melta. And they can only move 6" per turn. and we no longer have LB.
I would gladly take an AV 13/12/10 skimmer with a Railgun over a Leman Russ any day.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Cheap?! We are paying 120 points for an Exterminator, and that is 4 TL Autocannon shots with a 36" range and a HB in the hull. Our tanks vary from fairly priced to a little expensive to massively over priced (Demolisher I am looking at you) and they are very very vulnerable in close assault. Or to flanking attacks. Or to Melta. And they can only move 6" per turn. and we no longer have LB.
I would gladly take an AV 13/12/10 skimmer with a Railgun over a Leman Russ any day.

That is pretty fairly priced because you are also forgetting to add the fact they have 3 Hull Points and a 14-13-11/10 Armor stat line which is nothing to sneeze at, also throw Heavy Bolters on there. Now you have x4 TL-Autocannon Shots on top of x9 Heavy Bolter Shots. Also the same weakness of "Vulnerable to Close Assault or Flanking Attacks or to Melta" goes the same for ANY Tank, not just Imperial Ones. You can only move 6 inches a turn, whats the problem? You move up into range and start blasting away at the Tau player daring him to get close and leave his Gunline (if he is running it because I personally play very aggressive with mine) and again I will say it, Leman Russ Eradicators. These guys alone will do HORRIBLE things to heavy Fire Warrior Tau lists. A S6 AP4 Large Blast that Ignores Cover will decimate Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, Stealth Suits, Marker Light Drones and still wound Crisis Suits on a 2+ to inflict as many wounds as possible.