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Nice Now I need to see it in Natasha's colours.

The design looks more in line with MWO, which is a good thing. It actually looks like it could be a functional machine! Honestly, if they do more redesigns beyond just the unseen in this style, I might actually start buying Battletech minis again.

Done in a 3D printer, no less!

Which meant that someone, somewhere CAD designed the thing!

Say what you like about CAD vs. traditional sculpting, I think that it's perfect for mecha. I love the 21st century, I do...

A few new pics from Gen Con.

Looking good - I want them

Word is that they will be available in both plastic and metal.

If they basically remake the entire 3025 book in this new updated look and in plastic. I will forgo buying a new car for them.

I think most of the 3039 'mechs look good, compared to some of the later offerings (such as the Verfolger and the Ninja-To). The main ones that need reworked are the Dragon, Quickdraw, JagerMech, Stalker and Banshee. That's not saying that a few of the sculpts couldn't use some tweaks to make them look better.

Banshee just got a "Primitive" version you might like. And the Stalker II just came out as well. It is technically a 3145 design, but since it is Battletech, no one will care what era you use it in!

Yes but those are technically not the 3039 designs, just like the Phoenix 'mechs are not the 3039 designs.

But it doesn't matter. Just use which ever one you like the best. No WYSIWYG police here...

BattleTech? WYSIWYG? AAHAHAHAHAH!

This could get me into Battletech.

 Mattlov wrote:
But it doesn't matter. Just use which ever one you like the best. No WYSIWYG police here...

Inconceivable! How will they know that the other guy is not cheating and is using a SSRM6 when the miniature clearly carries a SRM6? How can you diferenciate a LRM20 from a LRM20 with Artemis without different miniatures? What's next using your own color schemes?

M.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Bobby Hostile wrote:
The Age of Darkness (or whatever followed the Jihad) had mixed companies of Mechs and vehicles taking over planets. Of course that was after Devlin Stone somehow convinced entire Houses and various warring factions to simply quit fighting. Cause, you know.... after 300 years, isn't that enough?

Are you basing your comments on actual BattleTech background and novels, or just the mess that the 'ClickyTech' game tried to introduce?

 Bobby Hostile wrote:
Military concepts such as drones and cyberwarfare didn't exist when Btech was thought of.

And yet somehow Technical Readout 3026, published in 1987 three years after the game was introduced had the Hi-Scout Drone Carrier.

Hey, I'm not hating on Btech. Quite the opposite. I love the universe. It's SciFi with no hokey aliens that act like humans. As far as "in universe" history, there was a series of books written for the Dark Age, which was based on the gak that was the Clickytech fluff. I tried reading them and it just made me unhappy.

I remember the drone carrier, but the implementation of the "drones" wasn't what we have available today. They weighted like .5 tons and didn't do much.

Aside from strategic scouting, which is pretty useless in a tactical game but priceless in a campaign.

IF you know there's an assault company guarding this pass, and only a picket recon lance guarding that one, deciding which pass to take with your medium company becomes very simple.

 Ghaz wrote:
Neither Catalyst or Iron Wind Metals does prepainted models.

That isn't entirely true. Leviathans is Catalyst and they are pre-painted. Not that I expect these to be pre-painted though, however just saying the statement isn't entirely true.

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Neither Catalyst or Iron Wind Metals does prepainted models.

That isn't entirely true. Leviathans is Catalyst and they are pre-painted. Not that I expect these to be pre-painted though, however just saying the statement isn't entirely true.

Actually, Leviathans is a game by Catalyst with miniatures by Wargames Factory.

I'm really happy that the Unseens are coming back, redesigned.

I love Macross and Robotech, and I love Battletech. And it's always seemed weird to me to have the same designs in Battletech but with vastly different capabilities.

I also love Mechwarrior Online, and I love the MWO redesigns of Battletech mechs.

So, this is the best news for me. Macross designs can stay in Macross, and Battletech gets MWO-style redesigns of mechs.

Of which I will be buying many... to go with my large and ever growing collection of 3D printed Mechwarrior Online mechs in Battletech scale...

Where can I get in on that action???

 Alex C wrote:
Where can I get in on that action???

PGI has allowed people to use the 3d files (and other art assets) that are stored locally on your hard drive when you install mwo for personal and not-for-profit use. So ya gotta extract the 3d files in 3d software and get them cleaned up and then 3d printed

 judgedoug wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
Where can I get in on that action???

PGI has allowed people to use the 3d files (and other art assets) that are stored locally on your hard drive when you install mwo for personal and not-for-profit use. So ya gotta extract the 3d files in 3d software and get them cleaned up and then 3d printed

Beyond my talents, but the results are amazing!

If only they knew how much money they could make by selling them...

 Alex C wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
Where can I get in on that action???

PGI has allowed people to use the 3d files (and other art assets) that are stored locally on your hard drive when you install mwo for personal and not-for-profit use. So ya gotta extract the 3d files in 3d software and get them cleaned up and then 3d printed

Beyond my talents, but the results are amazing!

If only they knew how much money they could make by selling them...

It is indeed a licensing issue - Mechwarrior is licensed by PGI from Microsoft, who owns the video game rights to Battletech. Catalyst would have to also license the designs from Microsoft. So it might have just been cheaper for them to create their own redesigns. (as the Dougram and Crusher Joe designs have already been made for MWO - Battlemaster, Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine, Thunderbolt; Locust)

Its more than just licensing costs. Its a policy that Catalyst has clarified on their forums multiple times that they will only use designs that they own outright.

 SkaerKrow wrote:
Don't get too excited; if all of the redesigns run this close to the originals then they'll never see the light of day. Harmony Gold watches BattleTech like a hawk, and with a RoboTech movie in production at Sony right now, they're vigorously defending their IPs.

After the last legal fight over the "unseen" designs, I'm sure Topps and Catalyst are very, very well aware of the IP issues involved in the old Macross/RoboTech based designs. I would be totally surprised if they (and their lawyers) did not carefully consider this before investing any time or money in developing new designs and minis. If they are at the point of announcing it and showing artwork of the redrawn "unseen" designs, I think we can be fairly sure they don't think they will be subject to any legal action.

 Stormonu wrote:
Wonder if we'll get LAMs for the Wasp, Stinger and Phoenix Hawk?

These are already done. They were selling them at GenCon this year and the minis are expected to be up for regular sale by this fall.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't get it. They already did redesign them for Project Phoenix? Why does this exist?

Because the PP designs were of new models of the old designs (ex. The original MAD-3R Marauder was like the 1967 Mustang while the MAD-5D version from Project Phoenix was like the 2015 model. Similar but really two different cars). These are redesigned artwork and minis of the original designs.

 Alex C wrote:
If only they knew how much money they could make by selling them...

The problem is, for a big video game company any money they could make licencing their IP to a small comany like Catalyst/IWM is chump change. Probably not worth getting the lawyers to write up the paperwork.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
A reboot, though... I just don't see happening. I think it definitely needs to be done, and Battletech would be better off as a result, but I don't think the developers are willing to alienate the fan base.

I agree that a reboot is unlikely, but I think that a bigger issue than the fanbase is that it would involve throwing out 30 years of game and universe development, and hundreds and hundreds of miniatures and starting the whole thing from scratch. Not gonna happen.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
I would love to see the game evolve into a true miniatures game and drop the "beer and pretzels" board game tag.

IMO, given the number of rules and the complexity of record keeping BattleTech was never a "beer and pretzels" game.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
And that is a major problem with the current fan base. So many see the game as a board game first, with miniatures and other accessories as expensive and optional buys.

I don't know. I've played BattleTech since the 80's and while lots of people use the 2D hex maps, I've never seen the game played without miniatures.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
And then there are the miniatures themselves, which as others have stated are dated and the immensely large catalog of figures make it nearly impossible for retailers to stock even half of the range.

Some of the mini designs are dated, true. Catalyst keeps coming out with new designs as they advance the timeline of the BattleTech universe, though (its progressed about 150 years so far, more if you project the timeline back to the time of the original Star League). IWM is releasing new miniatures of these new designs ever year. Of course, they still share a certain... aestetic with the older designs in that they generally look like they belong in the same game but again changing that would require throwing out everything and starting again from scratch.

 mdauben wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
I would love to see the game evolve into a true miniatures game and drop the "beer and pretzels" board game tag.

IMO, given the number of rules and the complexity of record keeping BattleTech was never a "beer and pretzels" game.

Battledroids certainly was. I'd argue that Battletech through early 2nd edition was as well when you only had the single TRO: 3025 and some scenario books. Once multiple TRO's were released, the game got dense. But all the charts and "complex" rules are a relic of the time, no? I mean, weren't most games chart heavy back then?

Perhaps the real issue is that "beer and pretzels" is a subjective term. The definition I am most comfortable with centers on a game that requires little if any background knowledge on the players' part in order to play. That means you can have a quick game over some "beer and pretzels" with a few friends without having to study up on list creation, or even know much more about your `Mech than what is on your unit sheet. You don't need to be well versed in Battletech's history in order to enjoy a `Mech on `Mech or even a lance on lance battle and to play you only have to be able to count to 12, so again, perfect for beer drinking.

 mdauben wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
And that is a major problem with the current fan base. So many see the game as a board game first, with miniatures and other accessories as expensive and optional buys.

I don't know. I've played BattleTech since the 80's and while lots of people use the 2D hex maps, I've never seen the game played without miniatures.

I played Battletech for years with nothing more than two miniatures. My group would trace hex-shaped tokens on paper, mark the front arcs, and write the unit name on the paper and be good to go. I have heard other player groups doing similar tricks to save cost. More to the point, the Battletech community members I have interacted with generally seem okay with this practice. The miniatures are viewed as secondary to the game, and completely optional. That can't be said for a true miniatures games like Warhammer 40k, or Warmachine.

 mdauben wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
And then there are the miniatures themselves, which as others have stated are dated and the immensely large catalog of figures make it nearly impossible for retailers to stock even half of the range.
Some of the mini designs are dated, true. Catalyst keeps coming out with new designs as they advance the timeline of the BattleTech universe, though (its progressed about 150 years so far, more if you project the timeline back to the time of the original Star League). IWM is releasing new miniatures of these new designs ever year. Of course, they still share a certain... aestetic with the older designs in that they generally look like they belong in the same game but again changing that would require throwing out everything and starting again from scratch.

Some of the designs are just plain bad too. Like the Yeoman, or the Super Griffin (hey, look I am jumping, but really it looks like Vlad the Impaler got to me!) which are unfortunately tied to bad artwork that the sculptors dutifully translate to 3d models.

I disagree that everything would have to be thrown out. Catalyst could go really far with just updating artwork and miniatures without completely wiping units, historical events, and fluff. IWM already has to archive miniatures because their catalog is too big. Leaving those archived models in the past, and updating them based off new artwork and using new technology (like 3D sculpting) could really revitalize the miniatures line, and draw more players in. Look at how people are responding to the news of the redesigned unseen as evidence that the aesthetic is what is really dragging the game down.

And I say this as someone who loves old-school Battletech. I'd be fine if the timeline never advanced past 3058, and prefer to stick in the late 80's around 3030. But the game is a dinosaur, and needs to be kicked in the ass to carry on for another generation.

Battletech is a complex hex and counter wargame.

The core rules of Battletech, since the "advanced" option of Battledroids (which became the BT we know and love) is complex. The BT Intro Set with all 3025 tech, is complex.

Alpha Strike is much closer to "beer & pretzels" but merely because the system is more elegant; it still produces satisfying games with tactical depth.

 judgedoug wrote:
Battletech is a complex hex and counter wargame.

The core rules of Battletech, since the "advanced" option of Battledroids (which became the BT we know and love) is complex. The BT Intro Set with all 3025 tech, is complex.

Alpha Strike is much closer to "beer & pretzels" but merely because the system is more elegant; it still produces satisfying games with tactical depth.

It is really not all that complex, honestly. Detailed? yes. Complex? Hell, no.

As to AS, it really is a different experience, IMHO. Somewhat similar, eagle-view, but... not as visceral, shall we say. It loses a lot of neat stuff almost completely, like heat management (yes, there are overheating rules in AS, but it's really not the same).

 judgedoug wrote:
Battletech is a complex hex and counter wargame.

The core rules of Battletech, since the "advanced" option of Battledroids (which became the BT we know and love) is complex. The BT Intro Set with all 3025 tech, is complex.

Alpha Strike is much closer to "beer & pretzels" but merely because the system is more elegant; it still produces satisfying games with tactical depth.

Debatable. Battletech is complex if you want to use every optional rule for every optional unit that has been published since 1984. Battletech's core rules for `Mech on `Mech combat, though? I don't know if I would consider them complex. I haven't opened the current boxed set so I am not sure if this has changed, but older editions used to have all of the necessary charts printed on the back of the rule book, which was really all the reference you needed to play the game. No need to flip pages, or look for specific charts, everything was on a single page reference sheet. That seems pretty basic to me.

Now, if you want to roll up a couple of 3100's mixed-tech `Mech forces with conventional support and aerospace units, yeah that gets hairy pretty quickly. But a couple of `Mechs sucker punching one another can be taught to a newbie and played in 15 minutes.

I agree with Albertorius' word choice of detailed versus complex in regards to the core rules. They are detailed, and some phases could be left off easily to speed up game play (like heat, or physical attacks) but you lose some of the charm of the rule set at the same time when you start trimming basic rules away.

No, BattleTech rules are the very definition of complex. They're not complicated, they're complex.