Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I thought there was a thread about this, but it didn't turn up on the search. Anyway, this dick got outed in a big way for killing a beloved par Lion, and the people who helped him are getting charged in court. I don't mind hunting, and in most cases support it. This squirrley gak though, is cowardice and cruelty gak wrapped in one package.

http://www.globalpost.com/article/6622735/2015/07/28/internet-users-are-now-hunting-minnesota-dentist-accused-killing-cecil


It appears from the comments, he has no fans for his blog:

http://brentsinclair.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/walt-palmer.html

So what's the story? Cecil was on a Conservation park, and this guy lured the lion our of the preserve somehow and killed it?

Is that something safari hunters do often?

 LordofHats wrote:
So what's the story? Cecil was on a Conservation park, and this guy lured the lion our of the preserve somehow and killed it?

Is that something safari hunters do often?

Yep. He had some guys go onto the park with bait and lured a semi tame Lion to a prearranged spot off the park where he got off a half assed shot with an arrow, causing the Lion to die in agony 40 hours later. He then tried to destroy the tracking collar it was wearing.

Well that's sleazy.

What ifif he did it with a clean shot all nice and honorable? And didn't bait it? Would that have been better?
Human s are past hunting, and it is something we should learn to live without.

Agreed, hunting like this serves no purpose other than an ego boost to those with small genitalia.

I would argue all hunting does that.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would argue all hunting does that.

You would then argue incorrectly. If animal populations are not culled in certain areas, they die a slow death by starvation or disease. What this guy did was reprehensible, though.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would argue all hunting does that.

That's rather unfair. There's a lot of perfectly legitimate, functional, and useful hunting programs out there.

Wild boar in the US for instance are an invasive, vastly overpopulated, non-native, destructive animal that has both a strongly negative environmental effect as well as being responsible for huge amounts of property damage, and can be very dangerous to people and other animals. Hunting them not only reduces the effects their unintended presence has on the environment, but reduces dangers to other animal populations, reduces damaged, and results in lots of good meat.

Deer likewise in many places are vastly overpopulated, and hunting is part of how their numbers are kept in check to prevent ecological harm.

These animals also provide meats that you don't typically get in stores, and their harvest is a whole lot less ecologically damaging than the methods of modern meat farming.

From those perspectives, there's a lot positive about these kinds of hunting. There's a big difference between trophy hunting and these kinds of hunting.

What this guy did was monstrous however, and ultimately likely didn't just kill one lion, but probably 7 once the cubs are included

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What ifif he did it with a clean shot all nice and honorable? And didn't bait it? Would that have been better?
Human s are past hunting, and it is something we should learn to live without.

It still would have been illegal, because it was on a game preserve.

Now, if this was a nuisance lion, who needed to be destroyed, and he had made a clean shot of it, then yes that would have been absolutely fine.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would argue all hunting does that.

That's rather unfair. There's a lot of perfectly legitimate, functional, and useful hunting programs out there.

Wild boar in the US for instance are an invasive, vastly overpopulated, non-native, destructive animal that has both a strongly negative environmental effect as well as being responsible for huge amounts of property damage, and can be very dangerous to people and other animals. Hunting them not only reduces the effects their unintended presence has on the environment, but reduces dangers to other animal populations, reduces damaged, and results in lots of good meat.

Deer likewise in many places are vastly overpopulated, and hunting is part of how their numbers are kept in check to prevent ecological harm.

These animals also provide meats that you don't typically get in stores, and their harvest is a whole lot less ecologically damaging than the methods of modern meat farming.

From those perspectives, there's a lot positive about these kinds of hunting. There's a big difference between trophy hunting and these kinds of hunting.

What this guy did was monstrous however, and ultimately likely didn't just kill one lion, but probably 7 once the cubs are included

Indeed. In addition, there is a lot of evidence that even endangered species can benefit from culling.

It does bear mentioning that this particular lion was pretty old. They live only 10-14 years in the wild and he was 13, and males are actually very unlikely to live past 10 due to fighting. In all likelihood he would have either died of old age or been killed by another lion in the next year or so. Which would have resulted in the deaths of his current crop of cubs anyway, not to mention the ones which would have been born next cycle. His death will actually allow younger males to come in and establish themselves, ensuring a healthier population.

Regulated trophy hunting of lions(and other animals) would actually bring a lot of money for their conservation. There are a lot of rich people who would pay 7+ figures to bag an exotic animal legally. A dozen or so animals a year, carefully selected to ensure they are expendable, would raise millions for conservation. Far more than donation and regular tourism brings in. Hunting is actually the biggest provider of conservation money in the world. It helps the animal populations remain healthy with the money it generates, plus it is an excellent paste time and provides good meat. Most hunting programs in Africa also donate the meat to local villages, helping people in poverty. Cecil would have been a prime candidate for this type of program.

Naturally this doesn't excuse this guy's very very illegal way of doing it. He should suffer the full consequences.

Hunting just for sport is disgusting. Hunting is okay if it has an actual use, like getting food or wildlife management. But hunting just for entertainment is sick. Then again, the comments and abuse this guy is receiving is also sick.
People need to calm down a bit.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Hunting just for sport is disgusting. Hunting is okay if it has an actual use

Sport is an actual use. If it wasn't we wouldn't have entire industries, or even cities, built around entertainment.

Now even if its the primary purpose the meat shouldn't be wasted. But most people who hunt for sport also keep the meat.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would argue all hunting does that.

That's because you have no idea what you're talking about.


I agree with some of the other posters in this thread, that if this had been done responsibly and legally it could be very beneficial to conservation efforts as a whole. But in this case, luring a lion with a tracking collar off of a preserve for an illegal kill is disgraceful.

I have hunted and fished for food since very early childhood. I was taught always to minimize suffering of any animal (and we always carried snips to cut snares wherever we found them) and to maximize the use of the animal as food.

I believe in hunting bountiful animals, in as humane a way as can be found, to provide food.

I also would like to string up the idiot who did this and all 'big game' 'sports' hunters who take life for their own jollies. They are not true hunters but sadistic killers. They are beneath contempt.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would argue all hunting does that.

http://www.rmef.org/Conservation/HuntingIsConservation/25ReasonsWhyHuntingIsConservation.aspx

I can throw stuff like this at you all day. Educate yourself, young one.

Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.
Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.
and those that do it in the name of "Conservation" are just excusing themselves of deplorable behavior.

Serious discipline involved in hunting. Also a very healthy respect for nature. I grew up on hunting.
Do you consider fishing the same as hunting?

What about where the pests destroy the earth that could be used for crops/cattle and also eat food/kill kept animals. Do they get a free pass because killing them is 'deplorable'?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.

If you wanna eat meat, someone has to kill the animal.

Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.

You do realize that not everyone lives near a super market where they can pick up their $3.99 chuck steak? Millions of people still rely on hunting for survival, even in America. And they have a vested interest in keeping their hunting grounds pristine.

and those that do it in the name of "Conservation" are just excusing themselves of deplorable behavior.

All the money which comes from hunting licenses and pays for all those national parks we have in the US say you are wrong. It raises more money than all those tree huggers and bunny lovers could hope to.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.
Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.
and those that do it in the name of "Conservation" are just excusing themselves of deplorable behavior.

You really are speaking from innocent ignorance here. What this jackass did was wrong on many levels, but I know in Maine, where I grew up, hunting Deer was preferable to seeing an over abundant herd starve to death. The deer population there actually grew in proportion to the farms that were developed.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.

If you wanna eat meat, someone has to kill the animal.

Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.

You do realize that not everyone lives near a super market where they can pick up their $3.99 chuck steak? Millions of people still rely on hunting for survival, even in America. And they have a vested interest in keeping their hunting grounds pristine.
.

Cool, for those people, it makes sense. but if you make enough, or live near a place that offers that, you have no excuse, especially if you are killing endangered specied

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.

Except, we do. The only difference is that it's not done on an individual level, most of us outsource that killing to a slaughterhouse. We kill more animals than ever to feed ourselves. Don't kid yourself here. Humanity still needs to kill. The only reason difference is that you don't have to do it yourself, someone else will do it for you.

Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.

For industrialized slaughterhouses, yes. They're very productive. They're hardly less barbaric and the process is often a whole lot more ecologically damaging than responsibly designed and limited hunting programs. You just don't have to see it yourself. That's all.

and those that do it in the name of "Conservation" are just excusing themselves of deplorable behavior.

And how else would you control invasive and destructive wild boar? Hunting and eating them is a whole lot more effective and eco-friendly than any alternative I can think of. How would you propose to control deer populations that have exploded way beyond what the ecosystem can sustain in many places?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.
Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.
and those that do it in the name of "Conservation" are just excusing themselves of deplorable behavior.

Hunting is indeed needed. Sure, there are other sources of food, but hunting is needed to keep many species in check and from them over populating and leading to mass starvation, not to mention invasive species are needed to be hunted to make sure they don't mess environments up, as well.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.

If you wanna eat meat, someone has to kill the animal.

Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.

You do realize that not everyone lives near a super market where they can pick up their $3.99 chuck steak? Millions of people still rely on hunting for survival, even in America. And they have a vested interest in keeping their hunting grounds pristine.
.

Cool, for those people, it makes sense. but if you make enough, or live near a place that offers that, you have no excuse, especially if you are killing endangered specied

Incorrect. Its perfectly valid for someone to go out and hunt even if they have access to modern conveniences. Or do you also think that there is no excuse for people who choose to raise and slaughter their own animals either?(when they don't need to)

And hunting of endangered species still can serve a variety of purposes. Licenses can be made very expensive, generating massive amounts of money to aid in protecting the animal. Even endangered species need sick or elderly animals to be culled, might as well get some money for it. Naturally such hunting needs to be very tightly controlled, but it has numerous benefits. Plus getting shot is often the best way to go for a wild animal. No such thing as a peaceful death for them. They are doomed to either be torn apart by another animal, many of whom will begin eating before their prey is even dead, or die a long and painful death from disease or starvation. A quick case of lead poisoning is relatively merciful.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.

If you wanna eat meat, someone has to kill the animal.

Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.

You do realize that not everyone lives near a super market where they can pick up their $3.99 chuck steak? Millions of people still rely on hunting for survival, even in America. And they have a vested interest in keeping their hunting grounds pristine.
.

Cool, for those people, it makes sense. but if you make enough, or live near a place that offers that, you have no excuse, especially if you are killing endangered specied

Incorrect. Its perfectly valid for someone to go out and hunt even if they have access to modern conveniences. Or do you also think that there is no excuse for people who choose to raise and slaughter their own animals either?(when they don't need to)

And hunting of endangered species still can serve a variety of purposes. Licenses can be made very expensive, generating massive amounts of money to aid in protecting the animal. Even endangered species need sick or elderly animals to be culled, might as well get some money for it. Naturally such hunting needs to be very tightly controlled, but it has numerous benefits. Plus getting shot is often the best way to go for a wild animal. No such thing as a peaceful death for them. They are doomed to either be torn apart by another animal, many of whom will begin eating before their prey is even dead, or die a long and painful death from disease or starvation. A quick case of lead poisoning is relatively merciful.

Amen, brother, as anyone who has come across carcasses in the woods of animals that starved to death would say.

I love stories like this, just to see the horrible vitriolic garbage people spew at someone for not being as kind and compassionate as they are.

It's hilarious.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I know why. I still think Hunting is wrong for a number of reasons, most being that you dont need to kill anymore.
Hunting isnt needed anymore, its a primal barbaric thing that we left the feth behind.
and those that do it in the name of "Conservation" are just excusing themselves of deplorable behavior.

You are still wrong. I live in a place where White Tail Deer have no natural predators. Mostly because Humans have driven them out. We used to have Cougar, Wolf, and Bear in my area but not anymore. Instead, we have Humans. White Tail Deer are barely kept in check with the hunting seasons we have. Damage to vehicles and crops is tremendous. So much that we have out of state hunters come to help us with population control. Even then, they have extended hunting seasons and provided extra tags to hunters. Still we have deaths from wrecks involving deer and crop destruction.

Also, venison is delicious.

Killing for sport is sadistic, psychopathic behaviour. This guy and his ilk are in the same category as Bundy and Ramirez .

Hunting for food is different matter.

WrentheFaceless wrote:
Agreed, hunting like this serves no purpose other than an ego boost to those with small genitalia.

wow.. not even thinly veiling an insult on an entire group of people then...

Poaching and what this guy did is totally wrong,

But hunting animals for food is just as if not more humane then raising live stock.