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Looking through the warscrolls got me thinking along a strange route. For all the large monsters (except for a few) there are tables representing them losing power with wounds suffered. The structure of this table made me think, it says "wounds suffered" not "wounds remaining" and the last one is always something like (n-1)+ where n is the number of wounds.

Could this mean that once the have taken (suffered) the wounds, they remain diminished, even if an ability heals them? After all, they have suffered the wounds, and the scroll makes no reference to current wound total. It also makes sense of why there is a 13+ on a 14 wound model. As the "+" is meaningless as 14 would be dead and not weakened.

As yet, we haven't used any of the large monsters, but I wanted your opinion on how you think this should be played. On one hand, it does seem self explanatory that the diminished profile remains, but this could be taken the other way. It will reduce the effectiveness of monsters that regenerate or can be healed quite considerably.

Over to you...

I would say yes, the model stays at the reduced values, even if healed.
But being AoS: just point it out to your opponent before the game and agree how you want to play it.

Inflicting Damage says "A healed wound no longer has any effect", so presumably that would also mean not counting as a Wound Suffered for capability reduction tables.

There are buffs that increase a models wounds, like Empowered in the Triumph Table. A High Elf Prince on a Griffon would have 11 wounds if it is Empowered, and that makes the 10+ row on it's table make sense.

Yeah, it does seem to go either way. On one hand it balances monsters and on the other it makes healing worse. I agree it falls into the category of "discuss first". When we had a chat about it, opinions were divided based on the source of healing (from a fluff perspective - healing yourself through will = will being exerted and diminished stats, healed by others = ah I see a problem with that lol).

I guess it depends on what you want from the monsters and the game. Maybe there will be a FAQ one day, who knows.

Snapshot's got the relevant rules there. The healed wounds have no effect anymore, so the monster also heals his damage/movement capabilities as a result of healing the wounds. The 10+ must be there just for wound increasing abilities or spells.

A wound healed has no effect, so it cannot still be suffered once its healed. Otherwise great unclean ones would be a poor choice compared to all other greater daemons. It has less wounds than a bloodthirster, but it can heal them at a ridiculous rate. If the healed wounds remained suffered, one could just damage him until you do 10 wounds and then he would be almost useless, making his healing abilities almost pointless.

I feel like it would reduce the effectiveness of healing on any monster model to the point of near-uselessness, and that makes me feel as though it isn't RAI, and it isn't RAW. Seems like healing monsters have less wounds to begin with than one might expect in comparison to other monsters, at least in the conpendiums ive glanced through.

remember that AoS is supposed to make the games less confusing and more straightforward, so if you put wounds on a monster and heal them you kind of lose track of whats what and this is not the intended way of playing AoS.

The rules as written are extremely poor (In games workshop typical fashion) but they are free this time and I presume that this is all just a gigantic testbench that will improve and get updated as time goes.

Its good to point out different interpretation of rules but dont try to surprise an opponent with your interpretation when it is so obvious and common sense that the rules must be played in the simplest form.


tldr: USE YOUR COMMON SENSE.

 cyberjonesy wrote:
remember that AoS is supposed to make the games less confusing and more straightforward, so if you put wounds on a monster and heal them you kind of lose track of whats what and this is not the intended way of playing AoS.

The rules as written are extremely poor (In games workshop typical fashion) but they are free this time and I presume that this is all just a gigantic testbench that will improve and get updated as time goes.

Its good to point out different interpretation of rules but dont try to surprise an opponent with your interpretation when it is so obvious and common sense that the rules must be played in the simplest form.


tldr: USE YOUR COMMON SENSE.

I've found the rules to be quite easy to follow. Saying that the rules as written are extremely poor is your opinion. In my opinion, the rules are many more times simpler and easier to learn and follow than the previous iteration of Warhammer Fantasy. I no longer have to memorize pages and pages of obscure rules, permissions and restrictions. I now only need to know a four page framework that I slot my unit War Scrolls into. I may be in the minority, but I quit playing previous versions of Fantasy because the game was usually an exercise in researching rules mid game. Unless you played regularly, the older versions of the game were very difficult to really learn.

 Kriswall wrote:

 cyberjonesy wrote:
remember that AoS is supposed to make the games less confusing and more straightforward, so if you put wounds on a monster and heal them you kind of lose track of whats what and this is not the intended way of playing AoS.

The rules as written are extremely poor (In games workshop typical fashion) but they are free this time and I presume that this is all just a gigantic testbench that will improve and get updated as time goes.

Its good to point out different interpretation of rules but dont try to surprise an opponent with your interpretation when it is so obvious and common sense that the rules must be played in the simplest form.


tldr: USE YOUR COMMON SENSE.

I've found the rules to be quite easy to follow. Saying that the rules as written are extremely poor is your opinion. In my opinion, the rules are many more times simpler and easier to learn and follow than the previous iteration of Warhammer Fantasy. I no longer have to memorize pages and pages of obscure rules, permissions and restrictions. I now only need to know a four page framework that I slot my unit War Scrolls into. I may be in the minority, but I quit playing previous versions of Fantasy because the game was usually an exercise in researching rules mid game. Unless you played regularly, the older versions of the game were very difficult to really learn.

I agree.

Though I would have appreciated a more structured framework in army selection.

Cool. Can you say where in the rules it says healing has no effect. I am planning purchasing some big guys and it would be nice to have this rule to hand, and I can't find anything suggesting wound effects are fully removed.

To be honest though I can go either way still. It would be nice if my big guy could get healed to return to full effect, but in the absence of certain evidence I would be happy to play it either way.

It says in the rules, and has been pointed out in this thread, under inflicting damage it states "a healed wound no longer has any effect". Meaning the effects caused by the wound no longer exist once it's healed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to be even more clear, this means that you DO get healed conpletely, including the tables that show your strength diminishing as you suffer wounds. Your strength diminishing is an effect of the wound, thus if you heal it, your strength returns to whatever it was before you took that wound because a healed wound no longer has any effect.

Yep, no worries. Just wanted to know where so I could show it. Was looking under healing abilities on scrolls. My undead gribblies will be happy, as the montarchs get wounds back quite easily.

I understood what you meant, just couldn't find the rule to show people. Thanks again for your help.

Oh haha sorry. I didnt mean to sound rude. It just seemed like you still thought the ruling was in question.

No worries. Thanks for the help. I looked originally in the healing spells, then after the post I looked in the first part of damage and for a section on healing but didn't read until the end of the paragraph when skimming lol.

I didn't take offence, and rereading my post there were typos (dam typing on phone whilst travelling) which confused the intent.

I am guessing the 13+ type thing also allows extra abilities etc to be added later (like the nurgle one already).