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 Vankraken wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Elves are always the "dignified, holier-than thou race that is so super-special and mystic, and the puny mortal races could never understand their higher thinking."

I hate Eldar partially because a lot of the Eldar players I've met are like that, too.

At my FLGS, the TFG is an Eldar player who loves to gloat about how brokenly op the codex is. Also his dice are often called into question as he rolls the same few dice for moral checks and a different set for shooting. He rolls a lot of 1s and 2s for moral and a lot of 6s for shooting. I guess he is forging the narrative with his dice having fortune and guide.

I hate these players for making actual Eldar players look bad.
There was a point where you kind of had to use different squads like different tools and the challenge was trying to balance the army, now its like "lol take 2 wraithknights and win".

I dislike the marines because they take up far too many resources they could be using on the other races as well.

 Harley Quinn wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
As an Ork player I personally LIKE Space Marines, IG (only 1 game against them though, DE, Tau, Nids and pretty much every other army out their, with the exception of Eldar. I have met TFG eldar player and I also think that the best player I have ever played against as far as knowledge, rules, and gamesmanship was an Eldar player. It has more to do with the way each codex they come out with is broken and makes players not want to face them. Every army is good at one thing, ok at another thing and garbage at something. Eldar are either great at everything or well above average at everything. They kind of took the role of the Space Marines but instead of paying an absurd amount of points for their OP cheese models they get to continue to pay less.

I am honestly a bit flabbergasted by the number of "I hate orks" posts. For the most part it seems its because Ork players get into the feel of the army and start speaking words with an orkish flavor. Or one person who called ork players childish...kind of don't understand that one. But whatever floats your boat.

I feel like you've had only bad experiences with Eldar players. If I ended up playing against you with my Eldar army, I think you'd have a fun time.

lol reread the post i said I have met TFG eldar player and I have met the best player I have yet to meet in this game and he was an Eldar player. It has more to do with GW giving the Eldar preferential treatment Edition after Edition.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Harley Quinn wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
As an Ork player I personally LIKE Space Marines, IG (only 1 game against them though, DE, Tau, Nids and pretty much every other army out their, with the exception of Eldar. I have met TFG eldar player and I also think that the best player I have ever played against as far as knowledge, rules, and gamesmanship was an Eldar player. It has more to do with the way each codex they come out with is broken and makes players not want to face them. Every army is good at one thing, ok at another thing and garbage at something. Eldar are either great at everything or well above average at everything. They kind of took the role of the Space Marines but instead of paying an absurd amount of points for their OP cheese models they get to continue to pay less.

I am honestly a bit flabbergasted by the number of "I hate orks" posts. For the most part it seems its because Ork players get into the feel of the army and start speaking words with an orkish flavor. Or one person who called ork players childish...kind of don't understand that one. But whatever floats your boat.

I feel like you've had only bad experiences with Eldar players. If I ended up playing against you with my Eldar army, I think you'd have a fun time.

lol reread the post i said I have met TFG eldar player and I have met the best player I have yet to meet in this game and he was an Eldar player. It has more to do with GW giving the Eldar preferential treatment Edition after Edition.

Oh my. I'm such an idiot. I literally skimmed past that bit. Haha, sorry. :p

I'm a Tau player but what I hate most is what GW is doing to the Tau.

I hate that they've become a gunline. In fluff they are meant to be a hard hitting mobile arms style army, akin to modern armies of today.

They used to be able to play that way, with the Fish of Fury tactic in 4th. There must surely be a middle ground somewhere between the boring gunline and the 4th ed Fish of Fury.

Instead of that, though, we get bigger robots shoehorned in and a playstyle designed to be as static as possible.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
I hate GK so much so that if they are my allies I will barrage them, impede them, disrupt them, and kill them in anyway possible on the table.

My main army is IG, ever since I read that crappy fluff about GK turn against their allies after an engagement due to possible future taint. Yet they are psykers themselves, bunch of hypocrites.

They execute or mind-wipe former allies because the GK are an ultra-top-secret aspect of the Imperium. Even most of the Inquisition doesn't know they exist, even members of the Ordo Malleus (for whom the GK are the Chamber Militant). It's not (always) because of the risk of future taint, it's because two men can keep a secret if one is dead (or has his memory erased).

I bet Dante knows. Because he's fething Dante.

As a KDK player I hate slaanesh and armies with psykers but at the same time I'm also a fan of slaanesh and psykers (I also have a daemon army) and weirdly I have a respect for Eldar and people who play the faction. Especially ones who started before 6th ed. I also have a great respect for DE players

Oh I hate blood angels too they are basically khorne wannabes mixed with twilight

I don't hate any faction.

I do, however, heavily dislike the direction some of the factions have taken (in terms of recent fluff and playstyles) and also feel disappointment about how badly some other factions have been fleshed out.

Imperial Knights are a sorry excuse to sell huge toys. They would be ok as a collectors' item but have no place on a 28mm scale battlefield. Simple as that.

Grey Knights are probably the army I feel less sympathy towards. As other users have said before, everything was fine when they were a mysterious chapter of secretive bastards. Then The Ward came along, and his terrible 15-years old fanboy writing came with him, and he turned them into a chapter of mary sue super super ultracool marines. Not only Draigo is probably the most Mary Sue character ever written for 40k, his fluff is easily the worse piece of gak I've ever seen.

Space Wolves suffer from being a nice idea that has received dismal treatment. They could have become an awesome army of true Space Vikings with a highly distinctive aesthetic. Instead they're the Furry Chapter with the 'wolf' word mercilessly spammed around. Wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf. Pathetic.

Blood Angels while not so terrible can get quite silly sometimes with the whole 'blood' thing. Bloodly Blood Bloongels. Still I will get a Sanguinor model one day and turn him to Chaos. It's something I have to do before I die

Necrons. I think the idea of "killer space robots" has potential, but over the years GW has absolutely failed to make them really interesting. Cold-looking terminators from space are fine as a first meal, but they should have gone further than that, with all kind of robotic abominations, instead of adding more and more silly-looking terminators with silly-looking weapons and mounted on silly-looking vehicles (the croissant, the terminator bus, etc.). At this point, after the terrible mess done to their fluff in 5th ed. - guess who's back, back again, Ward is back, for the fail - they're probably beyond saving. Gameplay-wise they also tend to be boring to play against. Even against non-Decurion lists, most of the time it feels you're facing an auto-play army that simply advances slowly towards the objectives and blatantly refuses to die, while shooting your vehicles to death with the most boring style possible.

Tau... another concept with good potential that has nearly turned into a parody of itself. As A Town Called Malus has said, they're supposed to be played in a certain way but then the army is designed to be a static, boring and irritating gunline. Same happens with their supposed aestethic ("efficient design") when met with reality (dumb-looking robots, the bigger they are, the dumber they look).

Minor offenders would be Orks (the more serious they've got one edition after another, the more ridiculous they've ended up looking, and making less and less sense each time) and Eldar (instead of a hit-and-run army focused on grabbing vital objectives and leave the battlefield quickly while sustaining the least possible amount of casualties, they have been developed as the ultimate cheese army, one edition after another, in both fluff and crunch, sporting units, abilities and weapons able to obliterate virtually every opponent without breaking a sweat).

Even against non-Decurion lists, most of the time it feels you're facing an auto-play army that simply advances slowly towards the objectives and blatantly refuses to die, while shooting your vehicles to death with the most boring style possible.

Which is how the original Necrons played when they were just metal Tyranids. They lined up, they marched across the field, they'd fall down and get back up, and keep walking.

"Advancing slowly and silently, refusing to die" has been the definition of Necrons since their inception.

 Psienesis wrote:

Even against non-Decurion lists, most of the time it feels you're facing an auto-play army that simply advances slowly towards the objectives and blatantly refuses to die, while shooting your vehicles to death with the most boring style possible.

Which is how the original Necrons played when they were just metal Tyranids. They lined up, they marched across the field, they'd fall down and get back up, and keep walking.

"Advancing slowly and silently, refusing to die" has been the definition of Necrons since their inception.

Yes, I understand that. My issue is that GW has been unable to develop them further than that. As I said in my post, some spesss terminators are ok for starters, but Necrons should have been developed into something more interesting as the years went on. Didn't happen.

One unit or two of tough-as-nails terminators is ok. The whole army getting back on its feet after you shoot them to pieces, not ok. And extremely frustrating to play against.

Imperial Knights. The 2 model army concept belongs in a different game.

Space Orks. Seems very out of place. Silly. If they were but renamed and made yellow, they would be cool though.


People who think Tyranids doesnt bring anything special needs to read up on the genestealer cult, and the doomsday lore they preach. It is rather good I think.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Korinov wrote:


Yes, I understand that. My issue is that GW has been unable to develop them further than that. As I said in my post, some spesss terminators are ok for starters, but Necrons should have been developed into something more interesting as the years went on. Didn't happen.
.

Agreed. The most interesting thing about necrons was these flayed ones and pariah's, where they sort of preyed on human life in a sort of robotic zombie way. This was never developed in any way, in stead they are stone cold boring.

Guys, think a second. Just a second.

Necrons are not designed to look like the Terminator. They are designed to look like metal skeletons. Since they areSpace Undead.

They look like the Terminator since the Terminator is... a metal skeleton. You cannot make a metal skeleton that does not look like the Terminator, since the Terminator is itself designed to look like a metal skeleton. Which is what it literally is.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

Eldar: No seriously those guys, just the amount of core rules they just basically ignore

Heaven forbid an army includes one special rule that ignores a whole chapter of the rulebook *coughKnowNoFearcough*.

Ok, one thing that Loyalists do that, technically they don't quite. ATSKNF is basically a sub-version of Fearless.

Secondly that rule doesn't really have too much of an impact unless you're playing Malestorm of War missions and that unit that is using that rule is near an objective..

Which compared to Eldar, its pretty meek, when they have...

-Bladestorm: So yeah on a roll of a 6, you ignore Sv rolls, and whilst that doesn't sound too bad, when its mass spammed it gets tedious, but wait whats that about not being able to get through Armour? Well..

-D-weapons: So yeah basically you touch it and they die, "yey".. such originality and so interesting to play in every game, but wait its only 12"? Well then you just go to..

-WS: So basically you can accelerate that range by a milestone and I can't do decent enough damage within the context of penetrations to you because of that stupid shield? Yey so fun when they disembark next turn, but wait yet again they are somehow still out of range? well don't worry..

-Battle Focus: So yeah that negates a big portion of the book by negating the tactical choice of either running to a position or shooting a weapons, so yeah go run that extra 3" you needed to run and then shoot at the target with your massed spammed D-weapons, but wait, you're still required to hit and wound? something might go awry? Don't you worry old bean, because Eldar have...

-Massed spammed psy ery: So yeah now you massed spammed your psychic pool and psykers, now you're assured to spam Guide and Doom on to the units, whats that? I can dispel? Good luck if you haven't spammed psykers yourself or could not for obvious reasons..

So basically you negate the whole shooting phase now as you are able to get within range with relative ease, shoot and wound with relative ease and erase at least half you're opponents army with relative ease.

There's no tactical thought put into it because there really is no target priority when you can just blow everything off the board because nothing presents itself as a hard challenge to kill.

Meanwhile your opponent now has half an army to deal with T6 Troops that are fearless (So what was that about Loyalists ignoring a chapter of the BRB?) with more D-weapons than to shake a pointy sword at.

Loyalists get free transports you say? that really doesn't matter when your army just flicks them to the side, heck even better Eldar would be farming them in games of annihilation so that would help the Eldar player more than the Loyalist player himself..

So Loyalists ignore a chapter of the rulebook as you say yes? at least they don't negate a whole section of the rulebook that revolves around the most favored section of the rules like the craftworld Eldar

And lets not go into the Waithknight with added invisibility to add salt to the wound so to say..

As a filthy Heretic and a foul Xeno myself I never would have thought I would be saying Loyalists were not as bad.

 Korinov wrote:
I don't hate any faction.

Imperial Knights are a sorry excuse to sell huge toys. They would be ok as a collectors' item but have no place on a 28mm scale battlefield. Simple as that.

Grey Knights are probably the army I feel less sympathy towards. As other users have said before, everything was fine when they were a mysterious chapter of secretive bastards. Then The Ward came along, and his terrible 15-years old fanboy writing came with him, and he turned them into a chapter of mary sue super super ultracool marines. Not only Draigo is probably the most Mary Sue character ever written for 40k, his fluff is easily the worse piece of gak I've ever seen.

Grey Knights are the worst. They're basically a complete duplication of the Inquisition, if the Inquisition were staffed by a bunch of invincible psychic boy scouts. The Inquisition is fantastic fluff because it feeds the grimdarkness with morally questionable tactics being used to combat the most vile and malevolent forces in secret wars and hidden engagements. The Inquisitors and Deathwatch are waging war in the dark and fighting to stave off corruption and death at every turn. GKs are just "herp derp, we're immune to Chaos." How is every GK immune to the force that corrupted the greatest of the Emperor's warmasters and half of the primarchs? How boring would Star Wars be if Luke were straight up immune to the Dark Side? They also ruin the scariness of Chaos. Once upon a time it was Space Marines engaging demons and being torn to shreds or fighting tooth and nail to destroy them, then the GK just walk along taking out dozens of demons like it's nothing. It ruins the notion that Space Marines are the ultimate warriors of humanity, and it just takes all the fun out of the fluff.

Knights stink because they're so vastly underdeveloped. GW wrote like 200 pages of fluff and then just pumped out two models. It's a totally wasted opportunity. IKs as they are would've made great HQ and Heavy Support units, but would have been so much cooler with dreadnaught sized men-at-arms (like the Skitarii castellan robots) and peasant militia infantry. As is, they are just an entire army of vehicles that can't be shaken, stunned, immobilized, or have their weapons destroyed. Zero fun to play against.

People are very um... Let's say.. Passionate, about their opinions of other factions. Hahaha.

If you read closely between the lines, I think you'll see that GKs are not really immune to chaos, and the constant claims that they are (while engaging in baths of blood to ward off chaos and using sorcery!) are meant to highlight the Imperial hypocrisy and self-deception that are 40K themes.

The actual, under-the-surface theme is that Grey Knights are delusional hypocrits(like everyone else in Imperial society). It's a constant theme in 40K -- "kill the mutant" dogma while being reliant on psykers is another one. Part of the "corrupt, dying empire" motif.

Alcibiades wrote:
If you read closely between the lines, I think you'll see that GKs are not really immune to chaos, and the constant claims that they are (while engaging in baths of blood to ward off chaos and using sorcery!) are meant to highlight the Imperial hypocrisy and self-deception that are 40K themes.

The actual, under-the-surface theme is that Grey Knights are delusional hypocrits(like everyone else in Imperial society). It's a constant theme in 40K -- "kill the mutant" dogma while being reliant on psykers is another one. Part of the "corrupt, dying empire" motif.

That would make sense if the Grey Knights weren't a secret sub-faction that no one is allowed to know about. It's pointless to have propaganda that is secret from the general population. And Draigo is literally living in the immaterium not being corrupted for years and years. Purifiers are somehow entrusted with secret knowledge that's so super-stupid secret that GKs that learn it must be put to death. It's just such absurdity piled on top of all the regular Space Marine absurdity. The GKs add nothing to the story that the Inquisition didn't already offer, and the Inquisition fluff is more grimdark, more intriguing, and more fun.

I beleive they are immune, personally.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I beleive they are immune, personally.

Fortunately, they are not immune to grav.

Or hellguns

I suppose the fluff I'm the least fan of might be the Tyranids but I do like aspects of it. The detailed itinerant process in which a fleet strips a planet down to bio mass and collects it gives my heart a little flutter. Those rippers even slaughter the nids as well, turning everything to sludge. They just make more nids from that same bio mass anyways. The genestealer stuff didn't really capture me much. I'm struggling with reconciling them with the rest of my perception of the tyranid fleets. I'll have to read up on them all over again and pick up what I missed cuz as I said for some reason they didn't gain my attention much. (I'll admit this is from 3 or 4th edition codexes, I've not picked up any codexes since till now with these Ork books that I got for 7th).

 TheSilo wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
If you read closely between the lines, I think you'll see that GKs are not really immune to chaos, and the constant claims that they are (while engaging in baths of blood to ward off chaos and using sorcery!) are meant to highlight the Imperial hypocrisy and self-deception that are 40K themes.

The actual, under-the-surface theme is that Grey Knights are delusional hypocrits(like everyone else in Imperial society). It's a constant theme in 40K -- "kill the mutant" dogma while being reliant on psykers is another one. Part of the "corrupt, dying empire" motif.

That would make sense if the Grey Knights weren't a secret sub-faction that no one is allowed to know about. It's pointless to have propaganda that is secret from the general population. And Draigo is literally living in the immaterium not being corrupted for years and years. Purifiers are somehow entrusted with secret knowledge that's so super-stupid secret that GKs that learn it must be put to death. It's just such absurdity piled on top of all the regular Space Marine absurdity. The GKs add nothing to the story that the Inquisition didn't already offer, and the Inquisition fluff is more grimdark, more intriguing, and more fun.

It's not presented as in-universe propaganda. It's presented as a joke for the reader of the codex. That's why it's absurd. Things obviously can't be as they are presented.

"They're totally incorruptible. So incorruptible that they take baths in blood to protect from corruption! And carry daemon weapons that they don't use lest they be corrupted!"

Alcibiades wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
If you read closely between the lines, I think you'll see that GKs are not really immune to chaos, and the constant claims that they are (while engaging in baths of blood to ward off chaos and using sorcery!) are meant to highlight the Imperial hypocrisy and self-deception that are 40K themes.

The actual, under-the-surface theme is that Grey Knights are delusional hypocrits(like everyone else in Imperial society). It's a constant theme in 40K -- "kill the mutant" dogma while being reliant on psykers is another one. Part of the "corrupt, dying empire" motif.

That would make sense if the Grey Knights weren't a secret sub-faction that no one is allowed to know about. It's pointless to have propaganda that is secret from the general population. And Draigo is literally living in the immaterium not being corrupted for years and years. Purifiers are somehow entrusted with secret knowledge that's so super-stupid secret that GKs that learn it must be put to death. It's just such absurdity piled on top of all the regular Space Marine absurdity. The GKs add nothing to the story that the Inquisition didn't already offer, and the Inquisition fluff is more grimdark, more intriguing, and more fun.

It's not presented as in-universe propaganda. It's presented as a joke for the reader of the codex. That's why it's absurd. Things obviously can't be as they are presented.

"They're totally incorruptible. So incorruptible that they take baths in blood to protect from corruption! And carry daemon weapons that they don't use lest they be corrupted!"

No, it is a joke but was written with all seriousness. Remember, it came from the same person who said that all Space Marines want to be Ultramarines and whose defence of a book so overpowered that it single-handedly destroyed the entire balance of an edition of WHFB was "Daemons are meant to be powerful".

I mildly dislike the tau. No particular reason, I just don't

Necrons. Im gonna puke blood if another warrior blob shrugs off an apocalyptic wave of firepower, and then regenerates its casualties.

After that eldar craftworld expansions. SM books just hrelp a mid tier army specialize, and more often than not make the army worse (BAs, SWs & old DAs). The Eldar expansions make an overpowered army worse. Every single unit in that codex is playable or wildly overpowered. Its a waste of GWs time & diminished, nigh impoverished creative capabilities.

War Kitten wrote:
I mildly dislike the tau. No particular reason, I just don't

Nothing wrong with that, so long as you don't try to ruin the fun of people who do like Tau or make stupid and unreasonable statements about how they should be Squatted or unceremoniously removed from the game based on your personal dislike of them.

Which is sadly what everyone else does.

EDIT: God fething damn it, I hate when you're directly replying to someone above you and then someone else sneaks in a post after you hit the button.

 Korinov wrote:
I don't hate any faction.

I do, however, heavily dislike the direction some of the factions have taken (in terms of recent fluff and playstyles) and also feel disappointment about how badly some other factions have been fleshed out.

Imperial Knights are a sorry excuse to sell huge toys. They would be ok as a collectors' item but have no place on a 28mm scale battlefield. Simple as that.

Grey Knights are probably the army I feel less sympathy towards. As other users have said before, everything was fine when they were a mysterious chapter of secretive bastards. Then The Ward came along, and his terrible 15-years old fanboy writing came with him, and he turned them into a chapter of mary sue super super ultracool marines. Not only Draigo is probably the most Mary Sue character ever written for 40k, his fluff is easily the worse piece of gak I've ever seen.

Space Wolves suffer from being a nice idea that has received dismal treatment. They could have become an awesome army of true Space Vikings with a highly distinctive aesthetic. Instead they're the Furry Chapter with the 'wolf' word mercilessly spammed around. Wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf. Pathetic.

Blood Angels while not so terrible can get quite silly sometimes with the whole 'blood' thing. Bloodly Blood Bloongels. Still I will get a Sanguinor model one day and turn him to Chaos. It's something I have to do before I die

Necrons. I think the idea of "killer space robots" has potential, but over the years GW has absolutely failed to make them really interesting. Cold-looking terminators from space are fine as a first meal, but they should have gone further than that, with all kind of robotic abominations, instead of adding more and more silly-looking terminators with silly-looking weapons and mounted on silly-looking vehicles (the croissant, the terminator bus, etc.). At this point, after the terrible mess done to their fluff in 5th ed. - guess who's back, back again, Ward is back, for the fail - they're probably beyond saving. Gameplay-wise they also tend to be boring to play against. Even against non-Decurion lists, most of the time it feels you're facing an auto-play army that simply advances slowly towards the objectives and blatantly refuses to die, while shooting your vehicles to death with the most boring style possible.

Tau... another concept with good potential that has nearly turned into a parody of itself. As A Town Called Malus has said, they're supposed to be played in a certain way but then the army is designed to be a static, boring and irritating gunline. Same happens with their supposed aestethic ("efficient design") when met with reality (dumb-looking robots, the bigger they are, the dumber they look).

Minor offenders would be Orks (the more serious they've got one edition after another, the more ridiculous they've ended up looking, and making less and less sense each time) and Eldar (instead of a hit-and-run army focused on grabbing vital objectives and leave the battlefield quickly while sustaining the least possible amount of casualties, they have been developed as the ultimate cheese army, one edition after another, in both fluff and crunch, sporting units, abilities and weapons able to obliterate virtually every opponent without breaking a sweat).

Exalted!

However I don't think demons belong in the setting. As an addendum to Chaos marines they are ok, but on their own (as stated by several) they are pretty stupid. If I wanted to fight an army of demons I'd play fantasy.

It's kinda funny actually, apparently no one who plays 40k wants actual sci-fi armies in their sci-fi game. It's why races like Tau and Tyranids are some of the most-hated armies, despite being pretty tropey sci-fi and a perfect fit otherwise, and everyone loves factions like Marines or Orks instead, which are basically just lazy fantasy analogues given guns and tanks. No one really liked pre-Ward Necrons, either, even though they were much less of a fantasy analogue than they currently are and the fluff was much darker, almost Lovecraftian.

Daemons could have worked if GW had gone the DOOM route and made everything more "biomechanical" looking, kinda like the soulgrinder, but the vast majority of the range are just straight-up WHF models, complete with musicians and standard bearers, with the only thing making them fit in 40k being their round bases (and not even that anymore since AoS is all round). The idea that everything has to work in both game systems is really limiting in my opinion, and makes everything look a little bit like generic fantasy.

^ Agreed!

Just because GW writes some inconsistencies for some common sci-fi tropes doesn't mean they are now somehow invalid. What's more iconic than a race of evil robots or hideous creatures out to devour life?

Both orks and eldar may be a stretch, but I look at them more as representative of a style rather than their fantasy equivalents. Not sure why the demons somehow break it for me.

 Sidstyler wrote:
It's kinda funny actually, apparently no one who plays 40k wants actual sci-fi armies in their sci-fi game. It's why races like Tau and Tyranids are some of the most-hated armies, despite being pretty tropey sci-fi and a perfect fit otherwise, and everyone loves factions like Marines or Orks instead, which are basically just lazy fantasy analogues given guns and tanks. No one really liked pre-Ward Necrons, either, even though they were much less of a fantasy analogue than they currently are and the fluff was much darker, almost Lovecraftian.

Daemons could have worked if GW had gone the DOOM route and made everything more "biomechanical" looking, kinda like the soulgrinder, but the vast majority of the range are just straight-up WHF models, complete with musicians and standard bearers, with the only thing making them fit in 40k being their round bases (and not even that anymore since AoS is all round). The idea that everything has to work in both game systems is really limiting in my opinion, and makes everything look a little bit like generic fantasy.

I think all races add to the game in some way. It just makes the game more rich. And I do agree with your Daemons comment. I think if they did change them a bit, it would be better.

 Sidstyler wrote:
It's kinda funny actually, apparently no one who plays 40k wants actual sci-fi armies in their sci-fi game. It's why races like Tau and Tyranids are some of the most-hated armies, despite being pretty tropey sci-fi and a perfect fit otherwise, and everyone loves factions like Marines or Orks instead, which are basically just lazy fantasy analogues given guns and tanks. No one really liked pre-Ward Necrons, either, even though they were much less of a fantasy analogue than they currently are and the fluff was much darker, almost Lovecraftian.

I did

As I said in my post, pre-Ward Necrons were nice as a first step, an introduction as a full-fledged faction in the game. The fluff was cool, and the army had a distinctive feeling to it, specially due to the mistery aura that surrounded them.

Then Ward came. And turned them into silly tomb kings in spesss. For vehicles, they got the skimmer terminator bus, the spider with a terminator on top pressing the buttons & joystick, the croissant, the incredibly silly tomb blades, etc. Even something that looks actually decent, like the annihilation barges, had to get not one but two terminators pressing buttons. Add an incredible amount of goofy names (Imotekh, Zahndrekh, Szarekh... seriously Ward? That was the best you could come up with?) and a satinized fluff, and you get a potentially awesome faction ruined. No longer a silent, dark menace with a lovecraftian feel, but a bunch of space pharaohs wannabes trotting around.