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Here in Wisconsin, we have:

Slush/Rain
Unbearable Heat
Snow that makes your garage look small
The Yeti moves out because of the cold

Rinse, and repeat. (Lately weather has been more cold than snow though. -20°F isn't fun. Not that the local school dared to close, no sir. That'd be ridiculous.)

I love my country, heart and soul.

I love the freedom that it provides. And not just things like the Bill of Rights, but things like the ability to go out and shoot things. Yeah other country can "do that" but not even Canada is as free about is as we are.

I love the ability to get on the road and start driving, and 3 days later still be going in the same direction.

I love the variety of cultures that our nation has. I love that I can eat authentic Greek food one day, Japanese the next, Indian after that, and a big ass greasy cheeseburger to wash it all down.

I could go on and on. Do other countries have this? Sure, to some extent. But none of them have it like we do.

 2BlackJack1 wrote:
Here in Wisconsin, we have:

Slush/Rain
Unbearable Heat
Snow that makes your garage look small
The Yeti moves out because of the cold

Rinse, and repeat. (Lately weather has been more cold than snow though. -20°F isn't fun. Not that the local school dared to close, no sir. That'd be ridiculous.)

Spent two winters in WI. I got my taste of REAL COLD in the mountains of Afghanistan. Stuck for ten days at Manas when the Freedom Bird broke where you hope it broke Zero and at night it goes double digit. I thought I experience real winter in South Korea

Texas has four seasons
Hot
Hellfire hot
OH DEAR GOD THE BUILDINGS ARE MELTING AND THE SKY IS ON FIRE
Hurricane!

If it weren't for the fact that intelligence and hard work are sufficient to get a man into that wealthy 1% (or at least the wealthy 5%), in the US, then I would agree with you heartily. However, this is not the case, and you seem to have just described a huge chunk of the first world.


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The food in the US is heavily diversified, you can get French, Italian, Chinese, Mexican, and good 'ole American within five miles of eachother. This is why I like the food.


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I sort-of agree with you.

The US military kind of has the same issue fighting terror as it did fighting the Viet Kong. We throw conventional soldiers at it, and hope that it gets the job done. Now, don't get me wrong, some of our soldiers (like the MPs, or black ops divisions) do a helluva job in that kind of a role - it's what they're trained for. But, virtually all of the grunts are trained to fight a conventional war, which doesn't involve having a child walk up to you and exploding. It gets to the point that you have to shoot the little five-year-old girl if she doesn't back off, because your entire squad could be killed if you don't. And then, the US military gets demonized for doing what is only logical and right to do.

As an example: my father's company was stationed a town over in Iraq, fighting Al Quaeda. He and the other MPs were able to be tactful and police the town with minimal violence - maybe two small skirmishes in the entire time they were there. They get sent to a different town, and a company of Marines moves in. A week later, an full-scale battle ensues and more than a hundred people die, because the Marines don't know what the hell they're doing.

Honestly, though, I think that this kind of thing is intentional. We have Black Ops squads that routinely go out, assassinate an enemy (or ally, or ourselves, for that matter), commit mass murder, then come back without a hitch. A couple of old guys who I used to be close to were in Black Ops, and they literally went insane from all of the gak they had to do (one of them just kind of cracked, the other is full-on pskyzophrenic, though the military might just have aggravated an existing condition). We've also got MPs in all of the four branches who actually are trained for the gak that the soldiers are going through over there, but, instead of training a boatload more MPs and less grunts, they just throw a bunch of infantry into a war on unconventional terrorists, who will never fight fair, and will never give them an opportunity to do as they were trained to do.


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 Frazzled wrote:
Texas has four seasons
Hot
Hellfire hot
OH DEAR GOD THE BUILDINGS ARE MELTING AND THE SKY IS ON FIRE
Hurricane!

You just described the Valley of the Sun (I would say AZ, but there is literally every biome except for ocean in AZ). Except, with the temperature varying between 120 and 30 degrees, it always feels like it's 10 below or 130 above.

We get:
Holy hellfire it's fething hot, I think that my face is melting, I just fried on an egg on the sidewalk (not even joking), my feet have first-degree burns from walking across the street
then: hotter than hell, but at least we get the occasional ten inches of rain all falling in the space of half a minute
followed by: feth, is it snowing? You know we live in the sonoran desert, right? ... this doesn't make sense...

Not wishing to derail the thread, but I think the entire idea of "fighting fair" is just ridiculous. The only way they could fight fair is if they were similarly equipped and trained to you guys, and they are never going to be because their economies are a joke compared to the US and they lack the culture that makes the US military so great.

I think the real message is that you can't actually fight terrorism conventionally, it must be tackled politically and socially. You have to look at the causes of terrorism (and no, it isn't "these guys are all crazy") and address those through some other means than violence, or in some way combined with violence, perhaps.

The US military can pretty much go in and make a pancake out of any country it chooses, you guys are that good. We all know it, and sometimes we have to be grateful for it. But making a pancake out of a country will often not achieve the objective of making that country stable and US friendly, as we have seen. The technical skill of the US military is sadly let down by a lack of political/diplomatic skill from your political overlords.

Another point that is close to my heart is the casual way the US can sometimes disregard the laws of other countries and then be like "Nah nah, can't prosecute us!" In my home country of Ireland, we're supposed to be neutral. But the US asked our politicians if they could land plans in one of our airports en route to the War on Terror. This was ridiculously unpopular in Ireland, but in the climate of "you're with us or you're against us" a small country like ours that relies heavily on foreign investment could not risk annoying the US, so we had to allow it. This grated, but then more than once there have been planes with actual weapons or prisoners on them that have landed. This is a clear violation of our neutrality, but the american response is basically "shrug?". Even though we are a hugely pro US country, that sort of thing stirs anti-American feeling because we feel that you do not really respect us, but merely patronize us.

 Da Boss wrote:
Not wishing to derail the thread, but I think the entire idea of "fighting fair" is just ridiculous. The only way they could fight fair is if they were similarly equipped and trained to you guys, and they are never going to be because their economies are a joke compared to the US and they lack the culture that makes the US military so great.

I think the real message is that you can't actually fight terrorism conventionally, it must be tackled politically and socially. You have to look at the causes of terrorism (and no, it isn't "these guys are all crazy") and address those through some other means than violence, or in some way combined with violence, perhaps.

The US military can pretty much go in and make a pancake out of any country it chooses, you guys are that good. We all know it, and sometimes we have to be grateful for it. But making a pancake out of a country will often not achieve the objective of making that country stable and US friendly, as we have seen. The technical skill of the US military is sadly let down by a lack of political/diplomatic skill from your political overlords.

Another point that is close to my heart is the casual way the US can sometimes disregard the laws of other countries and then be like "Nah nah, can't prosecute us!" In my home country of Ireland, we're supposed to be neutral. But the US asked our politicians if they could land plans in one of our airports en route to the War on Terror. This was ridiculously unpopular in Ireland, but in the climate of "you're with us or you're against us" a small country like ours that relies heavily on foreign investment could not risk annoying the US, so we had to allow it. This grated, but then more than once there have been planes with actual weapons or prisoners on them that have landed. This is a clear violation of our neutrality, but the american response is basically "shrug?". Even though we are a hugely pro US country, that sort of thing stirs anti-American feeling because we feel that you do not really respect us, but merely patronize us.

Point of order, you can absolutely fight terrorism conventionally, it simply requires a specific moral/philosophical outlook.

I'll accept that. Though I also think you'd have to kill pretty much everyone involved or you're going to have trouble down the line from the survivors. And by down the line I mean years or decades later. Something like that would not be forgotten.

I mean, it's fair to say any insurgency can be defeated by conventional means, but you have to be ok with obliterating the local populace and destroying everything of value and use, and such action usually defeats the ostensible purpose of engaging in said conflict in the first place

It's also been historically pretty rare that someone could "obliterate" a populace to the degree where there isn't some element left to "continue the fight".

Perhaps it is more possible than I think, but the damage such a brutal and inhumane campaign would do to your own soldiers would not be worth it.

BTW, this is another example of that terrifying feeling that "You know, some people in the States think this is a viable way to deal with conflict, and they're probably the only people who actually could get away with it these days..." that makes me feel uncomfortable with america.

 Da Boss wrote:
It's also been historically pretty rare that someone could "obliterate" a populace to the degree where there isn't some element left to "continue the fight".

usually because the occupying power wants something to remain, cities, factories, farmland, labor force, mines, etc. The Mongols managed it fairly well when they just didn't care about anything except what they could pack onto a horse, the Germans were getting there with Warsaw, and any nuclear armed power could do it in a few minutes if if didn't care about the effects of fallout

Perhaps it is more possible than I think, but the damage such a brutal and inhumane campaign would do to your own soldiers would not be worth it.

It's just not a possible option in most scenarios, either because there is a desire to retain resources, or because it can't be made to fit the party line, or another reason, and yes, it is absolutely difficult to get soldiers to engage in that sort of slaughter for long periods of time. You can get most to do it for a bit, many may even enjoy it for a few days, but unless you're coming from a cultural background like the Mongols, they start to have problems with it after a while and their...efficiency drops to a level of mere brutality instead of wholesale mass slaughter. Many governments found that many combat units quickly started reported increasing levels of fatigue and soldiers reporting "sick" and whatnot when engaged in such actions for more than a couple of days at a time.

BTW, this is another example of that terrifying feeling that "You know, some people in the States think this is a viable way to deal with conflict, and they're probably the only people who actually could get away with it these days..." that makes me feel uncomfortable with america.

You'll find people everywhere with this kind of mindset. The US obviously has them, but it's not unique to the US either, the US just happens to be in positions where such a conversation is relevant more often coupled with the fact that we have the power to actually do these things. It scares most of us sometimes too however, which I guess is saying something as far as dominating world empires go

I don't think it's true that the Mongols obliterated the populace though. It's true that nukes could do in the major population centres, but there would be survivors, and they'd be highly embittered.

I guess the Germans did come the closest to it, with genocide on an industrial scale. Actually, the disease which killed so many of the native peoples of the americas is probably the best example of resistance being crushed by an outside source, though it was biological rather than military, something similar could be achieved with biological weapons.

Kraft's American cheese aka processed yellow sludge is horrible and shouldn't exist. Dairy and amazing cheeses of all kinds is plentiful in Wisconsin aka the US's fat people preserve

God I love the specialty cheese shop that's right over the WI border. Their white cheddar is so sharp it almost melts your eye balls just smelling it, I'm drooling just thinking about it. Chicago wouldn't have the best pizza in the world without all the cheese coming down from WI, it's amazing.

 dusara217 wrote:


The US military kind of has the same issue fighting terror as it did fighting the Viet Kong. We throw conventional soldiers at it, and hope that it gets the job done. Now, don't get me wrong, some of our soldiers (like the MPs, or black ops divisions) do a helluva job in that kind of a role - it's what they're trained for. But, virtually all of the grunts are trained to fight a conventional war, which doesn't involve having a child walk up to you and exploding. It gets to the point that you have to shoot the little five-year-old girl if she doesn't back off, because your entire squad could be killed if you don't. And then, the US military gets demonized for doing what is only logical and right to do.

I suspect you'r unaware of how conventional units have ben training for the last decade and how the whole institutional Army training base adapted to the recent/current wars. NTC, JRTC and home station training not only focused on the types of ops the units were going to do, but even put in specific training geared towards the region/sector the units were supposed to deploy to. Thousands of native speaking role players were hired to add even more realism to the training. Scenarios/situations at the school houses from the basic courses to the War Colleges moved very far away from conventional war. Now, even as we shift back a bit towards decisive action training, it is being conducted as part of hybrid warfare training. I could go into how things like the Human Terrain Teams and Female Engagement Teams, whole BCTs switching to 'train and advise' roles, tons of money spent developing new non-lethal capabilities and doctrines, changes in intel collection and planning cycles, the changes to mission planning software and apps, and so on have signaled MAJOR changes in how we take on hybrid and low level warfare, but clearly you know it all and it would be a wasted effort.

 dusara217 wrote:

As an example: my father's company was stationed a town over in Iraq, fighting Al Quaeda. He and the other MPs were able to be tactful and police the town with minimal violence - maybe two small skirmishes in the entire time they were there. They get sent to a different town, and a company of Marines moves in. A week later, an full-scale battle ensues and more than a hundred people die, because the Marines don't know what the hell they're doing.

As the expert in unconventional warfare that you are, the part I highlighted for you should have tipped you off to one reason the situation was likely different. It very well may NOT have been the presence of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children that was the root cause for different experiences in the different towns...

 dusara217 wrote:
Honestly, though, I think that this kind of thing is intentional. We have Black Ops squads that routinely go out, assassinate an enemy (or ally, or ourselves, for that matter), commit mass murder, then come back without a hitch. A couple of old guys who I used to be close to were in Black Ops, and they literally went insane from all of the gak they had to do (one of them just kind of cracked, the other is full-on pskyzophrenic, though the military might just have aggravated an existing condition). We've also got MPs in all of the four branches who actually are trained for the gak that the soldiers are going through over there, but, instead of training a boatload more MPs and less grunts, they just throw a bunch of infantry into a war on unconventional terrorists, who will never fight fair, and will never give them an opportunity to do as they were trained to do.

Now you are really displaying your ignorance. 'Black Ops' squads do NOT "routinely go out, assassinate an enemy (or ally, or ourselves, for that matter), commit mass murder". That is just asinine and frankly offensive. Your misunderstanding of the role of MPs and infantry is pretty telling as well.

 CptJake wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:


The US military kind of has the same issue fighting terror as it did fighting the Viet Kong. We throw conventional soldiers at it, and hope that it gets the job done. Now, don't get me wrong, some of our soldiers (like the MPs, or black ops divisions) do a helluva job in that kind of a role - it's what they're trained for. But, virtually all of the grunts are trained to fight a conventional war, which doesn't involve having a child walk up to you and exploding. It gets to the point that you have to shoot the little five-year-old girl if she doesn't back off, because your entire squad could be killed if you don't. And then, the US military gets demonized for doing what is only logical and right to do.

I suspect you'r unaware of how conventional units have ben training for the last decade and how the whole institutional Army training base adapted to the recent/current wars. NTC, JRTC and home station training not only focused on the types of ops the units were going to do, but even put in specific training geared towards the region/sector the units were supposed to deploy to. Thousands of native speaking role players were hired to add even more realism to the training. Scenarios/situations at the school houses from the basic courses to the War Colleges moved very far away from conventional war. Now, even as we shift back a bit towards decisive action training, it is being conducted as part of hybrid warfare training. I could go into how things like the Human Terrain Teams and Female Engagement Teams, whole BCTs switching to 'train and advise' roles, tons of money spent developing new non-lethal capabilities and doctrines, changes in intel collection and planning cycles, the changes to mission planning software and apps, and so on have signaled MAJOR changes in how we take on hybrid and low level warfare, but clearly you know it all and it would be a wasted effort.

 dusara217 wrote:

As an example: my father's company was stationed a town over in Iraq, fighting Al Quaeda. He and the other MPs were able to be tactful and police the town with minimal violence - maybe two small skirmishes in the entire time they were there. They get sent to a different town, and a company of Marines moves in. A week later, an full-scale battle ensues and more than a hundred people die, because the Marines don't know what the hell they're doing.

As the expert in unconventional warfare that you are, the part I highlighted for you should have tipped you off to one reason the situation was likely different. It very well may NOT have been the presence of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children that was the root cause for different experiences in the different towns...

 dusara217 wrote:
Honestly, though, I think that this kind of thing is intentional. We have Black Ops squads that routinely go out, assassinate an enemy (or ally, or ourselves, for that matter), commit mass murder, then come back without a hitch. A couple of old guys who I used to be close to were in Black Ops, and they literally went insane from all of the gak they had to do (one of them just kind of cracked, the other is full-on pskyzophrenic, though the military might just have aggravated an existing condition). We've also got MPs in all of the four branches who actually are trained for the gak that the soldiers are going through over there, but, instead of training a boatload more MPs and less grunts, they just throw a bunch of infantry into a war on unconventional terrorists, who will never fight fair, and will never give them an opportunity to do as they were trained to do.

Now you are really displaying your ignorance. 'Black Ops' squads do NOT "routinely go out, assassinate an enemy (or ally, or ourselves, for that matter), commit mass murder". That is just asinine and frankly offensive. Your misunderstanding of the role of MPs and infantry is pretty telling as well.

Thanks for the good laugh this early in the morning. Not you Jake

 timetowaste85 wrote:
America is the place I touched my first boob. It's pretty much awesome.

I plan on touching a lot of American boob when I get there, British accent and military uniform, sorted.

 djones520 wrote:
I love my country, heart and soul.

I love the freedom that it provides. And not just things like the Bill of Rights, but things like the ability to go out and shoot things. Yeah other country can "do that" but not even Canada is as free about is as we are.

I love the ability to get on the road and start driving, and 3 days later still be going in the same direction.

I love the variety of cultures that our nation has. I love that I can eat authentic Greek food one day, Japanese the next, Indian after that, and a big ass greasy cheeseburger to wash it all down.

I could go on and on. Do other countries have this? Sure, to some extent. But none of them have it like we do.

You could get most of that in Russia

Anyway, the way this thread's going, I detect a debate between me, CptJake, and Jihadin, on the subject of America's role as a global superpower, but we had that a few months ago

My opinion is still the same...


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 Formosa wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
America is the place I touched my first boob. It's pretty much awesome.

I plan on touching a lot of American boob when I get there, British accent and military uniform, sorted.

Don't bank on your British uniform getting you past US customs/security - they're one of the most obnoxious bunch of people I've ever had the misfortune of meeting. It's one of the very few things I hate about the USA

If they walked up to me whilst drinking rootbeer


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I suspect you'r unaware of how conventional units have ben training for the last decade and how the whole institutional Army training base adapted to the recent/current wars. NTC, JRTC and home station training not only focused on the types of ops the units were going to do, but even put in specific training geared towards the region/sector the units were supposed to deploy to. Thousands of native speaking role players were hired to add even more realism to the training. Scenarios/situations at the school houses from the basic courses to the War Colleges moved very far away from conventional war. Now, even as we shift back a bit towards decisive action training, it is being conducted as part of hybrid warfare training. I could go into how things like the Human Terrain Teams and Female Engagement Teams, whole BCTs switching to 'train and advise' roles, tons of money spent developing new non-lethal capabilities and doctrines, changes in intel collection and planning cycles, the changes to mission planning software and apps, and so on have signaled MAJOR changes in how we take on hybrid and low level warfare, but clearly you know it all and it would be a wasted effort.

\you'll know better than most of us that all the training in the world doesn't compare to the heat of battle. Of course it helps to be prepared and to know what you're doing...

Figure after ten years of on and off again deployments we pretty much have it down pat. Just don't get complacent. Complacent gets one or someone else killed/maimed/ass chewed off

I was responding to the ignorant comment that " virtually all of the grunts are trained to fight a conventional war", which is about as dumb a comment as I've read lately.

If anything, we have neglected training for conventional wars.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
What do you think about american medical service? From mass media it describes as crazy expencive and no one will help in hospital if you don't have insurance, except of some urgent life-saving treatment. Is it true or not?

It's mostly but not completely true.

If you go to a hospital with a gunshot wound, or some other grievous injury, by law hospitals in the US must stabilize you regardless of your ability to pay. You will then get a ruinous bill, depending on how much they had to do. Medical bills are far and away the number one cause of bankruptcy in the US. It's nearly universally agreed this isn't a great way of doing things. It inflates the cost of care for everyone else, and provides no care for chronic conditions or preventative treatment.

If you have a life-threatening condition that won't kill you immediately, like cancer, you are on your own; an emergency room at the hospital will not set you up with rounds of chemotherapy.

Some hospitals will reduce their bills on a sliding scale or give you free care if you don't have insurance and are indigent but it's not a given.

If you are poor enough, you should be eligible for government-sponsored healthcare plans.

 Jihadin wrote:
Figure after ten years of on and off again deployments we pretty much have it down pat. Just don't get complacent. Complacent gets one or someone else killed/maimed/ass chewed off

Also we were getting into the FOB mindset before OIF/OEF by sitting up berms around units deployment into the "box" of JRTC.
Ft. Polk was, before that Camp Chaffee/Smith in Arkansas, the were going through transformation

Last rotation at Chaffee/Smith the Germans caught OPFOR Commander as he was coming out a store in one of the towns located on Chaffee Reservation. OPFOR mounted an attack on the Germans. Germans rolled up into the fight (Last rotation btw before we started going to Polk) in their Marders.....mayhem ensued
Crushed OPFOR force
Occupied the town
OPFOR mounted another attack at the Germans in town (town and civilian pop wear Miles gear and take part in the training)
Germans go Waffen SS stubborn
Running gun battles through town (yes the civilian pop drove the Germans around in back of pick up trucks)
Even a house was used as the German Task Force HQ which also was the rally point for the remainder of the German forces moving into area. Back porch to be exact with lot's of freshly made coffee readily handy

have to remember. People just hear us going through our training. Never seen us in action. So they were quite into the game

US Task Force were at a complete loss on why the Germans were in that AO. Turns out later "Beer Run"

US Doctrine/Policy/Common Sense/Fear of career prevented US forces from involving themselves into the situation that the Germans found themselves

Civilian Pop start diming out those individuals who were active members of OPFOR force and those who supported them

Germans "executed" the OPFOR Commander being the bounty on him Dead or Alive was A Ball of Twine and two rolls of 100 MPH tape
Germans "executed" key partisan leaders(?) after OPFOR commander POV was identified which contain radio freq rotation, maps, positions, units, unit "Call Rosters"....treasure trove of intel. So why bother with guards who can be used to prosecute war on OPFOR

It was insane fun MAYHEM.....and we can only watch......and be jealous of them
They remember to pillage first before "notionally" burning down the town. After they got their beer

The US should have sent a squad of high speed trained MPs to restore order peacefully and win the hearts and minds of all involved.

They're the only soldiers trained to do so dont-cha-know.

(then they could have handed out speeding tickets for folks driving 16 in a 15 zone)

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Some places have 4 seasons.

Oklahoma has:

Ice Season
Spring Season
2nd Ice Season
Tornado Season
Inferno Season
One week of Fall
Surprise Tornado Season
Winter

My wife assures me that we have four seasons. To date I have witnessed in an annual cycle;
Ice
Rain
Snow
Warmer rain
Thunderstorms
Power loss
Summer
How can anything live in this heat
Tornado watch
Rain
Football
Wet football
Frozen football
Winter
Blizzards

Coming from somewhere that shuts down if there's three inches of snow the novelty of snow hasn't worn off yet. Even if we do get 120 inches of it

you must be in chicago

 paulson games wrote:
Kraft's American cheese aka processed yellow sludge is horrible and shouldn't exist. Dairy and amazing cheeses of all kinds is plentiful in Wisconsin aka the US's fat people preserve

God I love the specialty cheese shop that's right over the WI border. Their white cheddar is so sharp it almost melts your eye balls just smelling it, I'm drooling just thinking about it. Chicago wouldn't have the best pizza in the world without all the cheese coming down from WI, it's amazing.

I'm glad someone else appreciates the fine American cheese that do exist. Between Wisconsin, Oregon, Washington, California, and then the Upper East Coast, you can get amazing, incredibly diverse cheese in the US.

Why is it that every military man hates MPs?

From my uncle who served in the British army in the 1960s, to people on dakka. Military men the world over loathe MPs!

Why is that?


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 CptJake wrote:
I was responding to the ignorant comment that " virtually all of the grunts are trained to fight a conventional war", which is about as dumb a comment as I've read lately.

If anything, we have neglected training for conventional wars.

I said this once a few months ago on another thread, and I got shot down for it.

My point was this: during the cold war, the US military trained to fight the WARSAW pact nations in Europe, but ended up in Vietnam, and was unprepared for it,

and now, they're training for unconventional war in the ME, but Russia and China are on the rise, which would be a conventional war

I'm confused

'Murica has got its virtues and flaws like everything in this world.

Lately however I've started to wonder if the crazy lack of gun control laws and the random chance you might be shot by a cop if you are black (which I could be viewed as) are worth the benefits.

 paulson games wrote:
Chicago wouldn't have the best pizza in the world without all the cheese coming down from WI, it's amazing.

The what in the world?

Vetril wrote:
'Murica has got its virtues and flaws like everything in this world.

Lately however I've started to wonder if the crazy lack of gun control laws and the random chance you might be shot by a cop if you are black (which I could be viewed as) are worth the benefits.

 paulson games wrote:
Chicago wouldn't have the best pizza in the world without all the cheese coming down from WI, it's amazing.

The what in the world?

In you never visit the USA, you won't have to worry about that

I do visit though, I even lived in CA for some time.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Why is it that every military man hates MPs?

From my uncle who served in the British army in the 1960s, to people on dakka. Military men the world over loathe MPs!

Why is that?

I don't hate them, I've worked with some darned good ones. I've also seen some who were real gak bags (the ticket for a 16 in a 15 got some poor LT a letter of reprimand from a general that effectively ended his career before it started just so some 19 year old PFC could feel superior, and I dealt with some with issues as a commander in Panama who decided padding their stats was better than being good soldiers).

But the main reason I brought them up was again in response to the ridiculous idea that MPs and 'Black Ops squads' are the only forces capable of handling non-conventional warfare. In fact, there are very few MP specific tasks suited to unconventional warfare (route security, manning check points, convoy security, and perhaps the biggest is forensic investigations). And frankly many other units can do *most" of those tasks as well.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I was responding to the ignorant comment that " virtually all of the grunts are trained to fight a conventional war", which is about as dumb a comment as I've read lately.

If anything, we have neglected training for conventional wars.

I said this once a few months ago on another thread, and I got shot down for it.

My point was this: during the cold war, the US military trained to fight the WARSAW pact nations in Europe, but ended up in Vietnam, and was unprepared for it,

and now, they're training for unconventional war in the ME, but Russia and China are on the rise, which would be a conventional war

I'm confused

We've really just started 'decisive action' rotations and training again in the last couple of years. Very recently they did a Joint Forcible Entry exercise at NTC which was the first in a LONG time where an actual airfield takedown was done (not to mention an MLRS/HIMARS raid, I haven't seen that practiced in a while).

http://www.army.mil/article/153535/Conventional__special_forces_team_up_during__Joint_Forcible_Entry__exercise/

The reality is that training resources are always limited, and when you have multiple deployments into two+ theaters you MUST focus/prioritize on getting those troops ready. Now we have *some* relief we can regain some of the atrophied skill sets (and are working to keep the lessons learned ingrained by making sure hybrid threats are kept in the training plans).

 CptJake wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Why is it that every military man hates MPs?

From my uncle who served in the British army in the 1960s, to people on dakka. Military men the world over loathe MPs!

Why is that?

I don't hate them, I've worked with some darned good ones. I've also seen some who were real gak bags (the ticket for a 16 in a 15 got some poor LT a letter of reprimand from a general that effectively ended his career before it started just so some 19 year old PFC could feel superior, and I dealt with some with issues as a commander in Panama who decided padding their stats was better than being good soldiers).

But the main reason I brought them up was again in response to the ridiculous idea that MPs and 'Black Ops squads' are the only forces capable of handling non-conventional warfare. In fact, there are very few MP specific tasks suited to unconventional warfare (route security, manning check points, convoy security, and perhaps the biggest is forensic investigations). And frankly many other units can do *most" of those tasks as well.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I was responding to the ignorant comment that " virtually all of the grunts are trained to fight a conventional war", which is about as dumb a comment as I've read lately.

If anything, we have neglected training for conventional wars.

I said this once a few months ago on another thread, and I got shot down for it.

My point was this: during the cold war, the US military trained to fight the WARSAW pact nations in Europe, but ended up in Vietnam, and was unprepared for it,

and now, they're training for unconventional war in the ME, but Russia and China are on the rise, which would be a conventional war

I'm confused

We've really just started 'decisive action' rotations and training again in the last couple of years. Very recently they did a Joint Forcible Entry exercise at NTC which was the first in a LONG time where an actual airfield takedown was done (not to mention an MLRS/HIMARS raid, I haven't seen that practiced in a while).

http://www.army.mil/article/153535/Conventional__special_forces_team_up_during__Joint_Forcible_Entry__exercise/

The reality is that training resources are always limited, and when you have multiple deployments into two+ theaters you MUST focus/prioritize on getting those troops ready. Now we have *some* relief we can regain some of the atrophied skill sets (and are working to keep the lessons learned ingrained by making sure hybrid threats are kept in the training plans).

Thanks for the interesting info.

According to my cold war book from the 1980s, the role of the MP, in case of a Soviet invasion was: dealing with enemy propaganda, guarding bridges and key crossroads, handling POWs, keeping civilians away from key roads and railways, and rounding up stragglers into military ready units. Don't know if that's till the case these days.