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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/27 21:17:18
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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Dakka Veteran
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JoeRugby wrote:Newness of the company is one thing.
But the reason I'm not in on the campaign is that I can't use these minis with my collection.
The humans are too tall for my other 28-30mm humans and the aliens look to be over 40mm tall which is just a bit too big.
In an increasingly overcrowded sci fi skirmish game market for me you need to stand out more.
Although we have no interest in the sci-fi market, we were watching this campaign with interest as to why it didn't fund. I think you nailed the reasons.
JoeRugby wrote:
Either you need:
To be the standout [strike]skirmish[/strike] (army) rule set
Have unique minis that fit with other people's collections so they will use in other games.
Minis that are jaw droppingly amazing in real life (this is the only reason Prodos might survive after the AVP bull!!!!)
Be dirt cheap
Out of the above which do Icarus actually hit?
So what you are saying is that a campaign that includes some or let alone all of the above will strike success? OK, we might get back to you on this and quote you if a certain project fails, lol!!! :-D
Back on topic, with all sincerity to a fellow manufacturer and by no means pretending to be the greatest of experts -but certainly with more experience than the average-, maybe the best way to go if this project fails on the 1st launch (since it's still a live project and we wish it goes through regardless), probably it would be to drop the hard-back cover book, go with a downloadable PDF instead, gobble down any expenses made on the artwork (i.e. you will not be making that money back in this nor the next campaign) and build a community which little by little will grow and support you more. The investment is going to come back after years, but if you really believe in this and keep on building on it, you will prevail and see your game flourish.
That's our take at least, hope it helps :-)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/27 21:39:46
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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PsychoticStorm wrote:I would say indoctrinated to like multiposed plastic and ridiculous large battles, for the table space available anyway.
It's not a matter of 'indoctrination'... Plastic, multi-part models appeal to modellers, because they open up a whole lot more modelling opportunity than single-piece metal or resin models do. There are still plenty of people out there who prefer metal, or single-part models, for the extra characterisation or detailing that is available in that medium.
The battle size thing is the same... some people like big battles, some don't. It's not something that people are going to just go along with if they don't personally like it. It's not like there is any shortage of skirmish games out there these days for those who want smaller battles... So if you see new skirmish games struggling, it's more likely going to be due to market over-saturation, rather than some institutionalised preference for larger battles.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/27 22:01:02
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I love the fact there is an art book, it really is timing.
Hopefully payday will be kind and before this ends.  My worry is it won't fund though if I do back.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/27 22:02:18
Subject: Re:Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Wow, go away for a few days and it gets all serious in here  Anthony at Icarus does check comments and all feedback will help him grow his business, so thanks. I personally cannot afford the time and financial commitment to large scale games, hence my interest in skirmish. I think if this doesn't fund Icarus have plans to release miniatures individually and still continue on with the background and artwork as they have been. It will mean a longer wait for us gamers and hobbyists but may then make a stronger platform to launch from again. I like the Icarus resin better than the metal infinity miniatures, but I am a painter more than gamer, but as my nan used to say (about 50 times a day, bless her) it would be a boring world if we were all the same
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/27 22:03:37
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I've been so swamped at work recently I haven't had time to truly read through everything.
So you can buy Gabriel thus far, even without backing? If so, where?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/27 22:07:29
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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He's available via their webstore
http://icarusminiatures.com/shop/
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/27 22:10:49
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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Thermo-Optical Spekter
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Erebus Studios wrote:Infinity? same thing they already were well known for their historical miniatures and hence already had a community to start from.
I am afraid you need to do your research more and in depth, CB did have a great and successful 15mm ancients line, but almost none of the 15mm ancients traversed to 28mm sci fi skirmish, many ignored it and most were furious when "that new skirmish game" was the reason their wonderfully 15mm line was cut, even though Infinity was 8 years in.
CB provided 10 years ago what people wanted, a sci fi skirmish game that is contrary to what 40k provided, filtered feedback properly and improved on what people wanted and here they are now.
But CB and PP started a decade or more ago, the question is what does a company do now, and how the entry field has changed. Automatically Appended Next Post: insaniak wrote: PsychoticStorm wrote:I would say indoctrinated to like multiposed plastic and ridiculous large battles, for the table space available anyway.
It's not a matter of 'indoctrination'... Plastic, multi-part models appeal to modellers, because they open up a whole lot more modelling opportunity than single-piece metal or resin models do. There are still plenty of people out there who prefer metal, or single-part models, for the extra characterisation or detailing that is available in that medium.
The battle size thing is the same... some people like big battles, some don't. It's not something that people are going to just go along with if they don't personally like it. It's not like there is any shortage of skirmish games out there these days for those who want smaller battles... So if you see new skirmish games struggling, it's more likely going to be due to market over-saturation, rather than some institutionalised preference for larger battles.
Been gaming from the 90 I feel the GW promotion of been plastic, then the only company to provide it, was neither subtle nor passive, the articles and constant reminder of how awesome and better than metal is, even at the expense of their own kits was in full force and after a decade of been alone the state of metal vs plastic, yes, I would say reaches a point of indoctrination, from my perspective, if somebody blindly shoots down a product because it is not HIPS, it crosses the lines of indoctrination.
The most common question companies that do not offer plastic get asked is when they will do plastic. like plastic is a panacea or that plastic solves all the problems, worse what they mean is when you will make GW like kits of multiposed models, even if that is not what the company is about.
Battles allow me my personal bias as an amateur game designer a 4x6 table is not enough living space for 200 models even less if that is what only one side is fielding, I am not against large battles, do them in proper table size, lets not forget 40k is Rick Priestley's homebrew 15mm ww2 game rules because 6 months before printing the accounting demanded a game system that needed twice the minis.
Plastic has some good things some bad things and can be useful in some circumstance,s even necessary on others, but the demand for it has crossed the lines of been normal and frankly there is only one company behind this behavior.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/27 22:25:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/28 06:28:41
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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Fresh-Faced New User
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PsychoticStorm wrote:Erebus Studios wrote:Infinity? same thing they already were well known for their historical miniatures and hence already had a community to start from.
I am afraid you need to do your research more and in depth, CB did have a great and successful 15mm ancients line, but almost none of the 15mm ancients traversed to 28mm sci fi skirmish, many ignored it and most were furious when "that new skirmish game" was the reason their wonderfully 15mm line was cut, even though Infinity was 8 years in.
CB provided 10 years ago what people wanted, a sci fi skirmish game that is contrary to what 40k provided, filtered feedback properly and improved on what people wanted and here they are now.
But CB and PP started a decade or more ago, the question is what does a company do now, and how the entry field has changed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
insaniak wrote: PsychoticStorm wrote:I would say indoctrinated to like multiposed plastic and ridiculous large battles, for the table space available anyway.
It's not a matter of 'indoctrination'... Plastic, multi-part models appeal to modellers, because they open up a whole lot more modelling opportunity than single-piece metal or resin models do. There are still plenty of people out there who prefer metal, or single-part models, for the extra characterisation or detailing that is available in that medium.
The battle size thing is the same... some people like big battles, some don't. It's not something that people are going to just go along with if they don't personally like it. It's not like there is any shortage of skirmish games out there these days for those who want smaller battles... So if you see new skirmish games struggling, it's more likely going to be due to market over-saturation, rather than some institutionalised preference for larger battles.
Been gaming from the 90 I feel the GW promotion of been plastic, then the only company to provide it, was neither subtle nor passive, the articles and constant reminder of how awesome and better than metal is, even at the expense of their own kits was in full force and after a decade of been alone the state of metal vs plastic, yes, I would say reaches a point of indoctrination, from my perspective, if somebody blindly shoots down a product because it is not HIPS, it crosses the lines of indoctrination.
The most common question companies that do not offer plastic get asked is when they will do plastic. like plastic is a panacea or that plastic solves all the problems, worse what they mean is when you will make GW like kits of multiposed models, even if that is not what the company is about.
Battles allow me my personal bias as an amateur game designer a 4x6 table is not enough living space for 200 models even less if that is what only one side is fielding, I am not against large battles, do them in proper table size, lets not forget 40k is Rick Priestley's homebrew 15mm ww2 game rules because 6 months before printing the accounting demanded a game system that needed twice the minis.
Plastic has some good things some bad things and can be useful in some circumstance,s even necessary on others, but the demand for it has crossed the lines of been normal and frankly there is only one company behind this behavior.
Oh I know their was quite an angry group when CB shut down their 15mm historical range a real shame I have an ancient British army done by them and they are great sculpts. Perhaps it was not the case but it was rather a unique exception with infinity hitting the market as well as it did and solidifying its self into its current dominant position.
However your next part of your post is 100% right on the spot and deserves exalting. big battles should be done at scales made for big battles, 28mm is not a scale you do big battles in ( the only way I see it possible to do so with a reasonable table space is only in a fantasy genre game with small multi based units representing their regiments like the 28mm version of DBA. Skirmish gaming will continue to grow and become dominant for 28mm for several reasons, ease of play, ease to paint ( not having to paint 100s of miniatures just to play a game is a big time saver which gets too my main point here) and the biggest thing of all, time to play a game.
People want a good game that doesn't take over 2 hours to play. people are busy or want to have several games in one day and this is one of the reasons why board games and card games out compete tabletop miniature games. You can pick up a box or pack and be ready to play, table top games take time to paint up and set up and play ( though board games as well can take some time depending on what type of game). So you want to ensure your skirmish game can be played in a reasonable time length around 45 to one hour max is the average I have estimated seems to give a good balance of time length and yet not going to far.
It is hard for new companies and even long time companies to deal with so many gamers who keep on asking and wanting to see our miniatures switch over to plastic or just ask " cool are they in plastic?" and when you say that we do not currently produce anything in plastic , they walk away and get plastic miniatures even if they are the very poor sculpted ones. Plastic can be very useful at times yes , but for the most part its unrealistic to invest in a mold , no one wants to risk 5 - 20000 dollars into a single plastic miniature mold.
Also were many people like the option of a "multi pose kit" I have always felt that the poses tend to be poor quality or just highly silly and always rather pay for a few well sculpted poses and even have a unit with several of the same poses if it means they are better sculpted and much more interesting.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/28 07:01:56
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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Regular Dakkanaut
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You can do multi-pose to a degree in other materials but as you said it can limit the artistic side of the sculpt. That's why the Alliance troopers are only changeable with the heads, however Icarus have managed to make the arms of the Nexus grunt interchangeable. So you can still get a degree of flexibility in resin, I personally prefer a well designed miniature that if I choose to, can be modified. So how about some more shout outs for the Kickstarter  (maybe flogging a dead horse, but hey I'm loyal like that)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/28 07:02:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/28 07:59:54
Subject: Icarus Miniatures - KICKSTARTER - FREE miniatures with £75 pledge, NEXUS 3D PRINT IS HERE! Pg1
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Indeed... The scale and material discussions are probably best had elsewhere, so that this thread can just get back to discussion of the kickstarter.
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