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So.... I just wanna start this off saying that so far I have only gotten a few things for age of sigmar, namely the StormcastStarter box half and the lord Castellan model. So I have about 19 models right now, and I am really not sure I want more...

I have played like, ten games of AoS with this army and each and every one I played besides two I have gotten completely tabled and wiped out without a single breath of victory even with sudden death. Every single person in my GW I play at brings their once fantasy armies to it, and I'm always outnumbered and I always feel like it isn't fair. the rules feel like they are clear as mud and favor defense more than attack with the "everyone within 3 inches of the fight gets to join in too" rule that leaves my armies outnumbered and outgunned. Do I just need better tactics? I have no clue for this game, as it feels like I'm getting bullied rather than playing a fun and fair game.

If you want a fair game, look elswhere.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So.... I just wanna start this off saying that so far I have only gotten a few things for age of sigmar, namely the StormcastStarter box half and the lord Castellan model. So I have about 19 models right now, and I am really not sure I want more...

I have played like, ten games of AoS with this army and each and every one I played besides two I have gotten completely tabled and wiped out without a single breath of victory even with sudden death. Every single person in my GW I play at brings their once fantasy armies to it, and I'm always outnumbered and I always feel like it isn't fair. the rules feel like they are clear as mud and favor defense more than attack with the "everyone within 3 inches of the fight gets to join in too" rule that leaves my armies outnumbered and outgunned. Do I just need better tactics? I have no clue for this game, as it feels like I'm getting bullied rather than playing a fun and fair game.

ask them to use less of their army to make it fairer? play a scenario? not sure what you are asking for, if you are outnumbered chances are you will lose, if you even lose with sudden death rules and such you gotta practice tactics, best bet would be just to ask the other players to not use their full army... if you got the starter box set why not combine your sigmarines with the khornies into a bigger army and watch the others die..

ignore the comment above, dude is just a bitter daisy, I find AoS rather fair... ask the people at your GW for suggestions, maybe you are lacking in tactics and they could offer you tips etc...

@mwhistorian: Such a helpful reply there...

@tiger9gamer: what you should try is to play a couple of games against someone using a roughly similar sized army to yours, just to get your head around how to play the game, how the models work, how the synergies work, and to be aboe to talk through what and when to do what.

I played a game against a friend (neither of us had played whfb in years), and we both showed up with about the same "size" armies of brets against orks. The game was a lot of fun, but it ws also very relaxed, and we talked through all the rules - wow, 4 whole pages, it was rough, lol - took back moves that we realized didn't make sense, all in the name of learning the game.

We had a great game that swung back and forth, and are looking to play many more games.

If you like it, stick with it, and don't get discouraged right off the bat, especially when playing against "other established armies". Find someone who can and is willing to walk through it with you, then once you have a better grasp, then dive into the outnumbered type battles, which can be just as much fun. :-)

This is partially what happens when balance is thrown out of the window. As above, talk with your opponents and let them know if they would mind maybe bringing less of their armies for a closer game, or if they mind using this point system (Haven't used it myself yet, but heard nothing but good things about it.)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655717.page

If they refuse that, then your going to either buy more models to have a chance of winning (Thank you GW! *sarcasam*) or find a more balanced game. I don't know of any other medevial games like AoS, but on the sic-fi side we have Corvus Belli's Infinity, it's fun, balanced, and doesn't have as many mdoels on the board, free rules, cheaper. And no, before someone jumps on me, I'm not suggesting that he just drop AoS. I actually like AoS, but it does need either freindly opponenets who understand how much is to much, or a homebrew points system. Either of these should be easy to implement.

Moving this to tactic and changing the title so OP gets more on-topic replies. Anyone who wants to talk about their opinions of AoS, there is already a thread for that:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655877.page

Further off-topic comments will be deleted. Thanks!

I know I shouldn't get discouraged, but it feels very hard to balance games. Like one example, I played against death with about 50 or so wounds, myself bringing a starter box set and him bringing a squad of 2 morghasts, Arkon the black, skeletons and a few carrion wraiths.


It took about half my army to beat the two morghasts while getting bombarded by Magic Missile and winds of death before I finally killed them and with no effort he had them again with me only having 3 liberators on the table. Am I supposed to say before game a laundry list of things he shouldn't bring or do for a friendly game? Hell he even gave me tactical advise.

We played again and he brought Manfred on the horse-thing when I brought my army again and I followed his advice. I had my army in a huge block-ish deployment with my leaders in the back and liberators in the middle. That game instead of splitting up I moved as one block towards him... and was killed by turn three by his respawning Morghasts and carron wraiths.


ALright he mothballed that army and we played again yesterday this time stormcasts versus ogers. I moved up a few inches and generally kept a strong center and I charged his flanks with a squad of liberators and Retributors respectfully, getting into a sort of even fight... until one of his monsters used a 2+ move that killed my retributors in one hit without me being able to do anything about it (On a roll of a 2+ he gets 6 mortal wounds) and then proceded to outnumber me and just wipe me out with ogres.


at no point in any of these games I feel like there could have been tactics or ways to get around the slaughter of my forces. I could have moved together yes, but If I charge then everyone within 3 inches gets pulled into a fight. if I hold back and wait I do nothing and get charged and slaughtered by the entire enemy force while getting whittled away by magic and shooting. I have nothing against losing, in fact yesterday I lost but still had one of my best games of 40k in the face of annihilation. It was fun for my orks to get slaughtered but I still wiped out most of the enemy force and almost got enough objectives to beat him. I just... don't know =(

Have you played through the starter set scenarios yet? I think those have preset lists. You might find those more of an even fight.

Another idea is to choose a Sudden Death objective that you haven't yet. Most people go for Endure or Assassination, so why not Blunt or the one where you capture a scenery piece?

Otherwise houseruling a wound limit might be a good way to get a fun fight.

The starter set is a pretty basic army. If you're playing with a wound cap, you're going to be at a disadvantage against people who have a much wider range of models to choose from, especially people using special characters.

Ask your friend to use armies similar in size and composition to the starter set Khorne.

So, 20 weak things (skeletons for instance), a monster, a combat lord, a buffer hero/wizard, a unit of 5 elites.

Or, make an army similar in size and composition to the Stormcast if he is playing Ogres. 2 units of 5 bulls, a unit of Ironguts, a mounted lord, a buffer hero and some fast elite guys... Not sure if Ogres have an equivalent-ish unit, but experiment with leadbelchers, sabrecats, and maybe gorgers or yetis.

And, of course, he can mix and match. 20 skeletons, 5 ironguts, a unit of mournfangs, a necromancer and a hunter on stonehorn (can Ogres still use these?) should still be pretty equivalent.

As you add units, so can he add units of a similar type (if you add 5 more Stormcasts, he can bring another unit of bulls, or another 20 skeletons, for example)

Go to the battle reports section and take a look at the stuff by Achillies. GMG, I beleive. His first episode plays with two old style fantasy armies smashing together and didn't really look fun. All the others are a mix of other armies, including Orks, stormcast, ogres and undead with smaller armies with similar wound counts. After watching those videos and seeing a similar style played out in person I can say that As soon as I have enough 40k daemons painted, they're heading out to do some age of sigmas too.

Pretty much any starter set vs a full army is going to be uphill.
They've got a lot more options, most likely on smaller bases making it easier for your opponent to get more guys in the fight.

I've got a large stormcast force and have been doing just fine so far.

Though I'd love to get some cav and a warmachine. Wizard would be nice, but I don't see that in the Sigmar fluff...

-Matt

Scenarios scenarios scenarios!
I've not won a game yet(!!) but pitched battles really aren't where the game is at its' best. Even with an outnumbered/outmatched force I've been able to give a good account and in most cases I've been able to pinpoint the "I should have done this" of "I should have used that unit" moment that lost the game.

Specifically on topic; Relictor's healing storm isn't all that as the only units that get a reasonable return are characters, and in the case of the Dracoth it shackles it. Use him as an offensive piece. Celestant backing up twin-hammer Liberators is pretty good. Castellant's shielding ability is great on Liberators with shields, and disgusting with an Arcane Shield or two buffed on top.
I'm looking to add some Warrior Priests for unbinding purposes as Stormcasts have zero magic defence. For wizards, I've seconded a Heavens battle wizard as that seems to fit.

Haven't tried this 'live', but one of my opponents tends to summon a lot so a Gryph hound patrol is on the cards with a unit of xbow Judicators - you only get 1 shot but you can do it with special weapons.

The other thing I've found is that Stormcasts don't work too well spread across a front. They aren't weak, but attritionally they tend to suffer. It's not a new tactic, but try to build a plan around wiping out a unit with co-ordination. Isolate it with terrain, jump Prosecutors 'over the top' to prevent it retreating, soften it up with every last bit of ranged you can muster, then hit it as hard as you can.
Also... You do NOT want the Dracoth bogged down in combat. Charge in as support, then if the unit isn't wiped out, smarter move is to pull out in your next movement phase and let Liberators keep the combatants occupied.

Thanks for the advise guys, I think I will try and play more even games in the future (or pick up a second starter box set or something) before I go back on the board.

I kinda was in a bad place when writing that opening part. Maybe it's just been my luck or my opponents but thanks to this I do not feel like throwing away everything.

Have been having great fun in my store with AoS, we're quite honest about our army sizes/abilities. We are also following UK's Independent Pool comp, but even without it, discussions with our opponents helped even up the army sizes.

A quick look at your army composition and your opponents, gives me a very certain vibe that it is incredibly lopsided in your opponents favor. Our local Stormcast Eternal have been playing with double your current army size against some of us.

Are the people youre playing your friends or just folk at a store. Either way they sound like folk i`d stay away from.

Whole armies against the small sigmar force out the starter is never gonna work. You gotta try face off against a similar sized force. Whoever got the khorne half of the box play the stormcast against the khorne and learn more about hwo the game plays then you can slowly expand your force.

The stormcast pretty much have everything released for them bar a couple of units and characters that we know of so far (who knows what they will receive in the future) so there is a good mix of stuff.

If you have the AoS app the stormcast have some good battalions which can certainly lay the hurt down on opponents. You really just need to learn the basics and take your time with it and it`ll eventually all come together

We play according to the Toronto supplementary rules and it works fine so far.
The games are rather balanced.