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 Swastakowey wrote:
Say he said they believed in the force and used a ceremonial combat sword and lead entire armies and defeated many enemies as a result I would believe that given the context and enormity of the war along with what all the other soldiers are saying about it. Plus they have been doing this for thousands of years.

I certainly would not think he is crazy. Embellished? maybe. But certainly not laugh at the idea of these warrior generals who for thousands of years have helped govern and lead wars all over the known lands.

But his stories are still only going to be stories to you. You didn't experience it. You didn't learn about it in school. You've only ever heard mention of if from old veterans sitting around trying to outdo each other with stories of ancient valour...


So those stories aren't going to seem like unequivocable fact to you. They're going to be just that - stories. Something that you're going to wonder about until someone else confirms that they were actually true.


So, you know, sort of like what we see in the trailer...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
So we're in agreement, the Jedi being myths and legends by this point in the galactic timeline instead of academic fact that you could look up in Star Wars equivalent of google is silly?

No, I'm entirely happy with the idea that the stories of what the Jedi were, and what they were capable of, have been relegated to the status of legend by the time of the new movie.

 Swastakowey wrote:

The thing with templars is imagine if they ended only 60 years ago... would we consider them myth by now? Doubt it a lot, especially if they are as important and public as jedi were shown to be.

Thing with the Templars is, as you undoubtedly know, their fall from grace was swift and severe.... So severe that I would say that 60 years after they were gone, it was still seen as extremely taboo to mention them. As such, if you basically "aren't allowed" to talk about something, and you don't, you begin to forget about what it was you weren't supposed to talk about.

Not really. Or at least, the idea of them actually having mystical powers is very much a debatable one. Even people who know they existed might have doubts as to the existence of the force.

Lets say the Knights Templar had mystical powers. You might be able to find some evidence they were a real order, but you'd be doubtful as to them having mystical powers unless you had some very hard evidence. And as Star Wars seems to have a lack of mass media, no instant replays or Youtube. And a government thats been actively scrubbing all trace of the Jedi from the galaxy. You easily have a recipe for disbelieve and ignorance as to the Jedi.

 insaniak wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Say he said they believed in the force and used a ceremonial combat sword and lead entire armies and defeated many enemies as a result I would believe that given the context and enormity of the war along with what all the other soldiers are saying about it. Plus they have been doing this for thousands of years.

I certainly would not think he is crazy. Embellished? maybe. But certainly not laugh at the idea of these warrior generals who for thousands of years have helped govern and lead wars all over the known lands.

But his stories are still only going to be stories to you. You didn't experience it. You didn't learn about it in school. You've only ever heard mention of if from old veterans sitting around trying to outdo each other with stories of ancient valour...


So those stories aren't going to seem like unequivocable fact to you. They're going to be just that - stories. Something that you're going to wonder about until someone else confirms that they were actually true.


So, you know, sort of like what we see in the trailer...

Lets say I was born when luke was. My dad was 19 when he had me. I am now 21. My dad is now 40. My dad grew up in a world where jedi were at their most active and when they died and whose actions shaped the entire world I grew up in. His family history for as long as they can trace back has been under republic/jedi rule. He is now 40 and I grew up with him telling me about his child hood and how the world was. Just like in real life today it's not a myth hockey pockey world he talked about. When he was my age fish and chips really was less than a dollar (not 10 dollars like it is now) and people really did buy their license once for life and he really didn't have to get papers signed for his school to take him on trips. In starwars replace this with droids really did fight as a whole army and there really was a large force of clones.

20 years is not long. I can still talk to my great grandparents about how life was in the 1930s (well sign language to them?). I can ask them about the wounded NZ soldiers that came home on the trains and so on. 100 years is incredibly recent.

I don't know anybody that would view their parents, grandparents or great grandparents childhood stories and events as just simply stories of some fantasy land. Like most kids, we grow up with our parents etc stories, so when one of them drops a bomb like "I met the The beetles, they are real" it's not a huge shock. A veteran still has a family who has friends and so on.

I get that we dont know the full story from the trailer, but forgetting the jedi and what they did in 20 meager years between episode 3 and 4 is pretty crazy.

If they try pull this in the next trilogy they better have a super good explanation.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Lets say I was born when luke was. My dad was 19 when he had me. I am now 21. My dad is now 40. My dad grew up in a world where jedi were at their most active and when they died and whose actions shaped the entire world I grew up in. His family history for as long as they can trace back has been under republic/jedi rule. He is now 40 and I grew up with him telling me about his child hood and how the world was. Just like in real life today it's not a myth hockey pockey world he talked about. When he was my age fish and chips really was less than a dollar (not 10 dollars like it is now) and people really did buy their license once for life and he really didn't have to get papers signed for his school to take him on trips. In starwars replace this with droids really did fight as a whole army and there really was a large force of clones.

20 years is not long. I can still talk to my great grandparents about how life was in the 1930s (well sign language to them?). I can ask them about the wounded NZ soldiers that came home on the trains and so on. 100 years is incredibly recent.

Just to be a little more light hearted about things, you being from New Zealand, you probably grew up with your dad telling you stories about the likes of Sean Fitzpatrick, Colin Meads, John Kirwan and the likes. For American kids, that could be Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, Richard Dent, and scarily, if you're young enough, Brett Favre.

You probably eventually got to the point with those stories where youd roll your eyes and say, "yeah right da, even the All Blacks couldn't do THAT on a rugby pitch" and you begin to doubt the stories.

Fast forward a bit, and you have kids of your own. For some strange reason, you feel compelled to regale your kids with the stories of your youth, so you start talking about Fitzpatrick, Meads and Kirwan (Montana, Staubach, Dent, etc) and your kids don't believe you. To them, it's just stories you tell them of your childhood.


My point is, even though we can all sit back and say, "yeah, well we have stuff to actually show all those people doing the things they do in the stories." And that's largely true, but if you're completely honest with yourself, these stories do take on mythic proportions and seem rather unbelievable after a time.

From that vein, I personally can see why 60 years is a completely reasonable timeframe for something that was supposedly as big and powerful as the Jedi Order to have been forgotten so completely. Couple that with the facts that have already been brought up about the back-wateriness of the various planets and how it's Han Solo, skeptic scoundrel extraordinaire who delivers the message to these young'uns that it's all true.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Oh I'm gonna try for opening weekend. I gotta experience a star wars premier at least once. Now to wrastle up a Han costume by Dec 18th.

See, I want too. But I hate cheering people in theaters, so I might not.
Remember the Hulk Line after he beat loki? the "Puny God" Line? I never got to hear it because everyone was laughing so much.

For a little real world context, within 100 years of its fall, the Western Roman Empire had already achieved a degree of mythic status in Western Europe outside of Italy. While no one that we know of really questioned at the time whether the Roman Empire was real, plenty questioned how many of the 'stories' about the Empire were real. The upper classes (nobles, and priests for example) certainly had the capacity in them to know full well that the stories were true, but the average every day farmer? They had no context to ever believe the stories as anything more than something they heard from someone else.

It's just something that happens when word of mouth is the only way anyone ever learns anything and most people never leave home (sounds a lot like Star Wars ). Sure. Maybe 60 years is a bit of time crunch, but come on. That's just being absurdly nit picky.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Oh I'm gonna try for opening weekend. I gotta experience a star wars premier at least once. Now to wrastle up a Han costume by Dec 18th.

See, I want too. But I hate cheering people in theaters, so I might not.
Remember the Hulk Line after he beat loki? the "Puny God" Line? I never got to hear it because everyone was laughing so much.

That's odd, because people usually laugh at funny lines after they're spoken.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Lets say I was born when luke was. My dad was 19 when he had me. I am now 21. My dad is now 40. My dad grew up in a world where jedi were at their most active and when they died and whose actions shaped the entire world I grew up in. His family history for as long as they can trace back has been under republic/jedi rule. He is now 40 and I grew up with him telling me about his child hood and how the world was. Just like in real life today it's not a myth hockey pockey world he talked about. When he was my age fish and chips really was less than a dollar (not 10 dollars like it is now) and people really did buy their license once for life and he really didn't have to get papers signed for his school to take him on trips. In starwars replace this with droids really did fight as a whole army and there really was a large force of clones.

Now, let's go with the same scenario, except in this case you're on a world out in the boondocks, and your dad's only exposure to the Jedi was through stories he was told by drunk freighter crewmen who were passing through.

 LordofHats wrote:
For a little real world context, within 100 years of its fall, the Western Roman Empire had already achieved a degree of mythic status in Western Europe outside of Italy. While no one that we know of really questioned at the time whether the Roman Empire was real, plenty questioned how many of the 'stories' about the Empire were real. The upper classes (nobles, and priests for example) certainly had the capacity in them to know full well that the stories were true, but the average every day farmer? They had no context to ever believe the stories as anything more than something they heard from someone else.

It's just something that happens when word of mouth is the only way anyone ever learns anything and most people never leave home (sounds a lot like Star Wars ). Sure. Maybe 60 years is a bit of time crunch, but come on. That's just being absurdly nit picky.

Rewind a bit and it's 20 years.

I actually touched on this earlier. After 1000 years you would think most people in a situation like the one you describe would think that the republic still ruled over them alongside the Jedi rather than not know they existed in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Lets say I was born when luke was. My dad was 19 when he had me. I am now 21. My dad is now 40. My dad grew up in a world where jedi were at their most active and when they died and whose actions shaped the entire world I grew up in. His family history for as long as they can trace back has been under republic/jedi rule. He is now 40 and I grew up with him telling me about his child hood and how the world was. Just like in real life today it's not a myth hockey pockey world he talked about. When he was my age fish and chips really was less than a dollar (not 10 dollars like it is now) and people really did buy their license once for life and he really didn't have to get papers signed for his school to take him on trips. In starwars replace this with droids really did fight as a whole army and there really was a large force of clones.

Now, let's go with the same scenario, except in this case you're on a world out in the boondocks, and your dad's only exposure to the Jedi was through stories he was told by drunk freighter crewmen who were passing through.

Why are all these people drunk?

I have a hard time believing that the only source of history are drunk degenerates in pubs. After a 1000 generations/years you would think more than just drunk randoms would know about them and what they roughly do. Even a lowly protocol droid in the opening scene of episode 1 knew that the 2 diplomats were jedi. It seems to me that it's common knowledge what Jedi are etc. Nobody seems to laugh at the idea a jedi is doing anything until Episode 4 onwards.

 Swastakowey wrote:


Why are all these people drunk?

Because if I learned anything from Hollywood, it's that the truth comes from questionable drunkards at the local dive bar that common sense would have me believe are actually kiddy diddlers or serial killers

 Swastakowey wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
For a little real world context, within 100 years of its fall, the Western Roman Empire had already achieved a degree of mythic status in Western Europe outside of Italy. While no one that we know of really questioned at the time whether the Roman Empire was real, plenty questioned how many of the 'stories' about the Empire were real. The upper classes (nobles, and priests for example) certainly had the capacity in them to know full well that the stories were true, but the average every day farmer? They had no context to ever believe the stories as anything more than something they heard from someone else.

It's just something that happens when word of mouth is the only way anyone ever learns anything and most people never leave home (sounds a lot like Star Wars ). Sure. Maybe 60 years is a bit of time crunch, but come on. That's just being absurdly nit picky.

Rewind a bit and it's 20 years.

I actually touched on this earlier. After 1000 years you would think most people in a situation like the one you describe would think that the republic still ruled over them alongside the Jedi rather than not know they existed in the first place.

Again, you're glossing over the fact that history can be erased by a totalitarian government and important, huge events can be forgotten with relative ease by people that weren't active participants. These sorts of things happen in the world today (Holocaust denial, anyone?).

Ask yourself this: out of the seven billion or so people alive on this planet today, how many of them know for a fact the events of the First World War? How many of them have never heard about the conflict? Also, look at the number of people that don't believe American went to the Moon, not just once but six times.

 Swastakowey wrote:


Why are all these people drunk?

I have a hard time believing that the only source of history are drunk degenerates in pubs. After a 1000 generations/years you would think more than just drunk randoms would know about them and what they roughly do. Even a lowly protocol droid in the opening scene of episode 1 knew that the 2 diplomats were jedi. It seems to me that it's common knowledge what Jedi are etc. Nobody seems to laugh at the idea a jedi is doing anything until Episode 4 onwards.

Remember, that Protocol droid belonged to the head honcho of the Trade Federation. Exactly the sort of guy who would have first-hand experience with the rarely seen Jedi. And even he had never dealt with Jedi before. If top political figures only new Jedi by reputation, what chance do the average citizens have?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
For a little real world context, within 100 years of its fall, the Western Roman Empire had already achieved a degree of mythic status in Western Europe outside of Italy. While no one that we know of really questioned at the time whether the Roman Empire was real, plenty questioned how many of the 'stories' about the Empire were real. The upper classes (nobles, and priests for example) certainly had the capacity in them to know full well that the stories were true, but the average every day farmer? They had no context to ever believe the stories as anything more than something they heard from someone else.

It's just something that happens when word of mouth is the only way anyone ever learns anything and most people never leave home (sounds a lot like Star Wars ). Sure. Maybe 60 years is a bit of time crunch, but come on. That's just being absurdly nit picky.

Rewind a bit and it's 20 years.

I actually touched on this earlier. After 1000 years you would think most people in a situation like the one you describe would think that the republic still ruled over them alongside the Jedi rather than not know they existed in the first place.

Again, you're glossing over the fact that history can be erased by a totalitarian government and important, huge events can be forgotten with relative ease by people that weren't active participants. These sorts of things happen in the world today (Holocaust denial, anyone?).

Ask yourself this: out of the seven billion or so people alive on this planet today, how many of them know for a fact the events of the First World War? How many of them have never heard about the conflict? Also, look at the number of people that don't believe American went to the Moon, not just once but six times.

Ok cool, so some people dont know about a small war. Now imagine how many people in comparison would know about a 1000 year regime that recently collapsed that directly ruled them and brought their nation into conflict?

You can bring up fringe groups of people who make an exception to the rule, but when you have world governments who send their leaders to another planet to rule the galaxy for thousands of years as they work with Jedi to govern them up until incredibly recently... its a bit different to something like the moon landing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Why are all these people drunk?

I have a hard time believing that the only source of history are drunk degenerates in pubs. After a 1000 generations/years you would think more than just drunk randoms would know about them and what they roughly do. Even a lowly protocol droid in the opening scene of episode 1 knew that the 2 diplomats were jedi. It seems to me that it's common knowledge what Jedi are etc. Nobody seems to laugh at the idea a jedi is doing anything until Episode 4 onwards.

Remember, that Protocol droid belonged to the head honcho of the Trade Federation. Exactly the sort of guy who would have first-hand experience with the rarely seen Jedi. And even he had never dealt with Jedi before. If top political figures only new Jedi by reputation, what chance do the average citizens have?

Watto, Anakin, A bar of people that saw someone get dismembered and so on. In episode 2 I seem to remember a not sabulba cursing the jedi as they almost had a collision explicitly use the term jedi.

Seems to me that everyone knows about jedi, what they do and so on until episode 4.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Ok cool, so some people dont know about a small war. Now imagine how many people in comparison would know about a 1000 year regime that recently collapsed that directly ruled them and brought their nation into conflict?

The First World War was not "a small war" by any stretch of the imagination. You could realistically say the same thing about the Second World War too. Out of all the people on the planet, how many really know what happened or why it happened?

You can bring up fringe groups of people who make an exception to the rule, but when you have world governments who send their leaders to another planet to rule the galaxy for thousands of years as they work with Jedi to govern them up until incredibly recently... its a bit different to something like the moon landing.

No, it's called a comparison and you're actively ignoring it. The Moon landings were a huge deal. Like a really huge deal. They were televised live across the world. Yet, forty-five years after the event, scores of people that live in the country that sent them there don't believe that it happened. That doesn't even take into consideration the massive number of people in other countries that don't believe it happened or don't even know it happened.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Ok cool, so some people dont know about a small war. Now imagine how many people in comparison would know about a 1000 year regime that recently collapsed that directly ruled them and brought their nation into conflict?

The First World War was not "a small war" by any stretch of the imagination. You could realistically say the same thing about the Second World War too. Out of all the people on the planet, how many really know what happened or why it happened?

You can bring up fringe groups of people who make an exception to the rule, but when you have world governments who send their leaders to another planet to rule the galaxy for thousands of years as they work with Jedi to govern them up until incredibly recently... its a bit different to something like the moon landing.

No, it's called a comparison and you're actively ignoring it. The Moon landings were a huge deal. Like a really huge deal. They were televised live across the world. Yet, forty-five years after the event, scores of people that live in the country that sent them there don't believe that it happened. That doesn't even take into consideration the massive number of people in other countries that don't believe it happened or don't even know it happened.

Yes it was big, but was it 1000 years big? Not really. Thats my point. It didn't last 1000 years and then end only for people to forget about it in 20 years right?

No moon landings are nothing like this. It's also a different situation entirely. Did the moon landings last 1000 generations/years?

See how silly the situation is? We are talking a looong time and then all of a sudden it ends and everyone forgets.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Watto, Anakin, A bar of people that saw someone get dismembered and so on. In episode 2 I seem to remember a not sabulba cursing the jedi as they almost had a collision explicitly use the term jedi.

Seems to me that everyone knows about jedi, what they do and so on until episode 4.

Yes, they know about the Jedi. How much they know about what Jedi are actually capable of is less clear.

Look at the start of Episode 1, where the Neimoidian tried to gas a pair of Jedi, and then later seriously thinks that the blast doors on the bridge will be sufficient to stop them.



The Jedi do unbelievable magic. As such, anyone who hasn't directly encountered them and seen them in action is going to be extremely likely to dismiss the wilder stories as make-believe. Particularly once they're effectively gone from the galaxy and the whole thing has been removed a generation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swastakowey wrote:

See how silly the situation is? We are talking a looong time and then all of a sudden it ends and everyone forgets.

Except, again, nobody forgets.

The trailer doesn't suggest that Rey has never heard of the Jedi. Just that she isn't sure if the stories about them are all factual.

 insaniak wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

Watto, Anakin, A bar of people that saw someone get dismembered and so on. In episode 2 I seem to remember a not sabulba cursing the jedi as they almost had a collision explicitly use the term jedi.

Seems to me that everyone knows about jedi, what they do and so on until episode 4.

Yes, they know about the Jedi. How much they know about what Jedi are actually capable of is less clear.

Look at the start of Episode 1, where the Neimoidian tried to gas a pair of Jedi, and then later seriously thinks that the blast doors on the bridge will be sufficient to stop them.



The Jedi do unbelievable magic. As such, anyone who hasn't directly encountered them and seen them in action is going to be extremely likely to dismiss the wilder stories as make-believe. Particularly once they're effectively gone from the galaxy and the whole thing has been removed a generation.

But the numidians are shown to be incompetent baffoons throughout the entire series. It is likely they simply just didn't know anything. He was shocked at WHERE THE MAIN BATTLE was in episode 1. How does a general not know whats happening with his army right next to him? It's likely he has no idea about anything military related. Yet he knew what a Jedi was and what it meant.

Watto knew Jedi could mess with minds. Anikan knew that Jedi used Laser Swords. Random hover car near victims knew jedi by merely looking at them. I think it is pretty clear Jedi are a normal thing for many people to know about. Which makes sense given the time frame jedi have beein doing their thing publicly.



The trailer yes, the previous movies however (3-4) do state jedi are "ancient and hockey etc".

rtry this guess:

I think Luke will be important in the film. The two new protagonists once they meet Solo will be directed to Luke to gain knowledge of the force, once one is revealed as force sensitive.

Luke will appear late in the film in Yoda's/Kenobi's role, there to hang with Artoo in a swamp and be wise. I doubt Luke is there to fight as much as to impart his teachings to a new generation.

Solo might die in this one. Luke will stick around, he will be there to be wise for muc h of the trilogy, but might end up delivering wisdom as a force ghost in a later film.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Oh I'm gonna try for opening weekend. I gotta experience a star wars premier at least once. Now to wrastle up a Han costume by Dec 18th.

See, I want too. But I hate cheering people in theaters, so I might not.
Remember the Hulk Line after he beat loki? the "Puny God" Line? I never got to hear it because everyone was laughing so much.

That's odd, because people usually laugh at funny lines after they're spoken.

They where laughing so hard at hulk beating him.

At this point we can just agree that canon is pretty clear on people not knowing the full scope of what is going on in the wider universe and in the past and what the force is and what Jedi can do, and that some people think that's stupid and we should ignore canon because "reality".

We can carry on for 5 more pages or we can just agree to disagree

 d-usa wrote:
At this point we can just agree that canon is pretty clear on people not knowing the full scope of what is going on in the wider universe and in the past and what the force is and what Jedi can do, and that some people think that's stupid and we should ignore canon because "reality".

We can carry on for 5 more pages or we can just agree to disagree

I agree, but to me it's like arguing about the number of Space Marines in 40k. I simply blame the prequels really.

At least for the first time every watching all the starwars movies as a kid has actually helped. I can't believe how much of those movies I remember.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something interesting I saw floating around...

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Oh I'm gonna try for opening weekend. I gotta experience a star wars premier at least once. Now to wrastle up a Han costume by Dec 18th.

See, I want too. But I hate cheering people in theaters, so I might not.
Remember the Hulk Line after he beat loki? the "Puny God" Line? I never got to hear it because everyone was laughing so much.

That's odd, because people usually laugh at funny lines after they're spoken.

People were laughing at Loki getting the stuffing smashed out of him halfway through his monologue. "Puny God" wasn't the funny part.

I expect people to make noise and be of good cheer; I look forward to it. If I wanted to be anti-social there are other ways to see it but in this case a good natured crowd is a fun crowd, typically. I never read the books but I went to the midnight releases of Harry Potter for similiar reasons. I was going to see the film anyway so I went and saw it with enthusiastic views.

The streaker in the convertible waving a wand, both literally and figuratively, just made it that much more enjoyable experience.

 Grey Templar wrote:
"Puny God" wasn't the funny part.

In your opinion maybe, because I found it to be quite funny.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Why are all these people drunk?

I have a hard time believing that the only source of history are drunk degenerates in pubs. After a 1000 generations/years you would think more than just drunk randoms would know about them and what they roughly do. Even a lowly protocol droid in the opening scene of episode 1 knew that the 2 diplomats were jedi. It seems to me that it's common knowledge what Jedi are etc. Nobody seems to laugh at the idea a jedi is doing anything until Episode 4 onwards.

Remember, that Protocol droid belonged to the head honcho of the Trade Federation. Exactly the sort of guy who would have first-hand experience with the rarely seen Jedi. And even he had never dealt with Jedi before. If top political figures only new Jedi by reputation, what chance do the average citizens have?

Watto, Anakin, A bar of people that saw someone get dismembered and so on. In episode 2 I seem to remember a not sabulba cursing the jedi as they almost had a collision explicitly use the term jedi.

Seems to me that everyone knows about jedi, what they do and so on until episode 4.

1) Watto initially mocked Qui-Gon ("What do you think you are, some kind of Jedi?"). So while Jedi aren't unheard of, they are at least initially treated as a bit of a joke by the guy.
2) Anakin was a kid. Kids take legends and stuff a bit more seriously than teens/adults, and would be more inclined to believe in the existence of Jedi.
3) A bar full of people on Coruscant, near the Jedi power base. I will admit these people probably have a better-than-average chance of meeting a Jedi.
4) The Dugg was also on Coruscant, wasn't it? If so, see point #3.
5) Remember, movies are seen from a protagonist-eye view. Our protagonists are Jedi. Therefore anyone who appears on-screen with them has first-hand experience with Jedi. But consider how many people aren't appearing on-screen, and will only have second- or third- hand accounts of Jedi. Now think how easy it would be for the Empire to convince all of these people that Jedi were just some crazy cult with a bunch of urban legends surrounding them. After all, being able to choke someone with your mind is ridiculous, isn't it?

Going by what is said about most Jedi, cannon or not, I doubt many would go to a bar. The Jedi that are presented are usually shown as unique examples.

It doesn't hurt to forget that there are far more people in the Star Wars universe than ours, and multiple sectors, so it wouldn't be that hard for the vast majority to only ever heard of them let alone actually meet up with them. The number of people who are both able to train and are Force Sensitive is supposed to be ridiculously small. On Earth at the moment we might...might...be lucky to have just one.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Why are all these people drunk?

I have a hard time believing that the only source of history are drunk degenerates in pubs. After a 1000 generations/years you would think more than just drunk randoms would know about them and what they roughly do. Even a lowly protocol droid in the opening scene of episode 1 knew that the 2 diplomats were jedi. It seems to me that it's common knowledge what Jedi are etc. Nobody seems to laugh at the idea a jedi is doing anything until Episode 4 onwards.

Remember, that Protocol droid belonged to the head honcho of the Trade Federation. Exactly the sort of guy who would have first-hand experience with the rarely seen Jedi. And even he had never dealt with Jedi before. If top political figures only new Jedi by reputation, what chance do the average citizens have?

Watto, Anakin, A bar of people that saw someone get dismembered and so on. In episode 2 I seem to remember a not sabulba cursing the jedi as they almost had a collision explicitly use the term jedi.

Seems to me that everyone knows about jedi, what they do and so on until episode 4.

1) Watto initially mocked Qui-Gon ("What do you think you are, some kind of Jedi?"). So while Jedi aren't unheard of, they are at least initially treated as a bit of a joke by the guy.
2) Anakin was a kid. Kids take legends and stuff a bit more seriously than teens/adults, and would be more inclined to believe in the existence of Jedi.
3) A bar full of people on Coruscant, near the Jedi power base. I will admit these people probably have a better-than-average chance of meeting a Jedi.
4) The Dugg was also on Coruscant, wasn't it? If so, see point #3.
5) Remember, movies are seen from a protagonist-eye view. Our protagonists are Jedi. Therefore anyone who appears on-screen with them has first-hand experience with Jedi. But consider how many people aren't appearing on-screen, and will only have second- or third- hand accounts of Jedi. Now think how easy it would be for the Empire to convince all of these people that Jedi were just some crazy cult with a bunch of urban legends surrounding them. After all, being able to choke someone with your mind is ridiculous, isn't it?

Watto mentioned mind tricks specifically not working on him. I think thats enough to know that even little aliens on back water planets know what Jedi can do.
Kids being naive is not really a good way to hand wave the fact he clearly knows of the Jedi and stuff about them.
Yes coruscant could be said that they all know jedi because they close. But after 1000 years/generations of Jedi recruiting from all over the galaxy, sorting problems all over the galaxy and leading armies etc you'd think word would get out in that amount of time.

It's clear that people know how to recognize a jedi (as demonstrated in the entire prequels) just by looking at them, when they need to be discreet they have to go around out of jedi garb (see anikan protecting padme) or they will be noticed immediately. It's more likely the majority of people would believe the Jedi still exist and so does the republic if communication is this bad, than the fact they dont remember things very well. Especially only after a mere 20 years.

 Swastakowey wrote:
(as demonstrated in the entire prequels)

And this is why you fail. The prequels are awful and no one should have to watch them. I suppose they could be used for torture or induce vomiting.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Watto mentioned mind tricks specifically not working on him. I think thats enough to know that even little aliens on back water planets know what Jedi can do.
Kids being naive is not really a good way to hand wave the fact he clearly knows of the Jedi and stuff about them.
Yes coruscant could be said that they all know jedi because they close. But after 1000 years/generations of Jedi recruiting from all over the galaxy, sorting problems all over the galaxy and leading armies etc you'd think word would get out in that amount of time.

It's clear that people know how to recognize a jedi (as demonstrated in the entire prequels) just by looking at them, when they need to be discreet they have to go around out of jedi garb (see anikan protecting padme) or they will be noticed immediately. It's more likely the majority of people would believe the Jedi still exist and so does the republic if communication is this bad, than the fact they dont remember things very well. Especially only after a mere 20 years.

Dude...