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2016/01/08 21:46:01
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Easy E wrote: I happen to love the original Ewok celebration song and hate that it was removed.
Yub Yub!
I didn't really have a problem with it, either. I had a bigger issue with the muppet show at Jabba's palace and with the stilted romantic dialogue between Han and Leia. Man, talk about ham-fisted.
2016/01/08 21:51:17
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Solid 7/10 for me after seeing it last week. A nice homage to the original but nothing grdound breaking and several flaws (very poor bad guys, another deathstar attack and some silly plot devices).
An enjoyable romp overall however.
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough".
2016/01/08 22:26:15
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
You may not recall them, but they were there. They were the Emperor's advisers and he quickly dismisses them with a nod.
I recall them.... and the positive of that appearance, is that there is no indication either way, that ANY of them are or are not force users. If one were to view the Darth Plagueis book as canon (I know, I know... it's EU so it isn't), then it would make sense that Palpatine/Sidious has more than one apprentice at the same time, he does have a bit of a track record of not following the rule of two
The "Rule of Two" was also often skirted around by training individuals, but not allowing them to become full Sith. Just force sensitive assassins.
So you have a Master and an Apprentice, and then they both could have a number of lesser individuals to do their bidding.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Easy E wrote: I happen to love the original Ewok celebration song and hate that it was removed.
Yub Yub!
Same here!
Though my real hate for the special edition ending is the shots of people celebrating in the streets, especially Coruscant.
Apparently the Empires control of their own capital is so weak that within hours of the Emperor being killed people are able to hold a goddamn street party celebrating his death
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2016/01/08 23:01:14
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Easy E wrote: I happen to love the original Ewok celebration song and hate that it was removed.
Yub Yub!
Same here!
Though my real hate for the special edition ending is the shots of people celebrating in the streets, especially Coruscant.
Apparently the Empires control of their own capital is so weak that within hours of the Emperor being killed people are able to hold a goddamn street party celebrating his death
Well, in the EU anyway, Courscant wasn't really the center of Sidious's political tinkering.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Altogether unimpressed. General verdict was that if it was a nice film if you know nothing about the universe and therefore can't measure the consistency.
What I thought was done well:-
1)Not much CGI really helped keep the feel of the original films.
2)Some excellent acting from the older cast, and I liked the Leia/Han dynamic of 'slightly old, but hurt couple'. Tugged a few heartstrings.
3)More diversity is always good.
4) I liked Kylo's new lightsaber. Solves that annoying problem of lightsabers sliding down to the hilt (like with actual swords).
5) I liked the new stormtrooper designs for the most part. Different enough for a timeskip, similar enough to evoke the classic feeling.
6) Some nice nods to the past with Nien Nunb and suchlike hanging about.
Right. Things I disliked:-
1) Why does the Empire's remnants seem to be run by squabbling teenagers? Seriously, Kylo Ren and the ginger chap look about twenty, and Ren acts like a depressive emo teenager. Half the officers are of a similar age too!
2) The undetailed Republic gets brought up and snuffed out with absolutely no explanation.
3) Why does the Rebel Fleet now consist of a single X-Wing Squadron, and the base look like a bunch of Chechnyen terrorists?
4) There seems to be a mutilated Engineer from Prometheus running what's the left the Empire. Which, if I recall, was distinctly xenophobic. They sure got over that quick.
2016/01/10 17:46:23
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
1) Why does the Empire's remnants seem to be run by squabbling teenagers? Seriously, Kylo Ren and the ginger chap look about twenty, and Ren acts like a depressive emo teenager. Half the officers are of a similar age too!
2) The undetailed Republic gets brought up and snuffed out with absolutely no explanation.
3) Why does the Rebel Fleet now consist of a single X-Wing Squadron, and the base look like a bunch of Chechnyen terrorists?
4) There seems to be a mutilated Engineer from Prometheus running what's the left the Empire. Which, if I recall, was distinctly xenophobic. They sure got over that quick.
1) Personal theory: the General we see (the ginger) is merely a mid-level general in charge of a single division (notice I think we really only saw one Star Destroyer, as well as the starkiller base) I would think, based on previous Imperial titles/ranks, General is outranked by the Moffs/Grand Moffs, as well there'd probably be Marshalls and Field Marshalls, since they are basically "Nazi's in space"
2) meh, didn't bug me that much, in studying history, ofthen when one powerful government is overthrown, the next time period is quite tumultuous until the next "real" government gets into power.
3) They did explain that they had had a number of "set backs", though it does bug me as well that the "fleet" was basically one capital-ish sized ship, and a bunch of fighter sized craft.
4) While the Empire is distinctly Xenophobic, I would have to say that the general masses of this empire probably don't know what Snoke looks like. As well, we have SWTOR, where its explained within the Sith Empires that yes, "Humans are best" and while the Sith buy into that as well, it's more like "Yes, Im Xenos scum, but I'm more powerful in the force, so what are you going to do about it?" kind of attitude.
2016/01/10 17:58:17
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Leia's group are a bunch of low-funded freedom fighters who still think the Empire are the bad-guys, unlike the Republic which sued for peace. The Republic secretly funds her efforts, while publicly she is on the outs with them.
They are literally Leia's personal army, however small.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2016/01/10 18:09:04
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
4) There seems to be a mutilated Engineer from Prometheus running what's the left the Empire. Which, if I recall, was distinctly xenophobic. They sure got over that quick.
Palpatine was anti-alien. Everyone else not necessarily so. He never really got his agenda off the ground in this respect, so while some of the higher up Imperials would have held his views, that wouldn't have been the case universally. And most of the higher ranking Imperials were killed over the course of the war.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
4) There seems to be a mutilated Engineer from Prometheus running what's the left the Empire. Which, if I recall, was distinctly xenophobic. They sure got over that quick.
Palpatine was anti-alien. Everyone else not necessarily so. He never really got his agenda off the ground in this respect, so while some of the higher up Imperials would have held his views, that wouldn't have been the case universally. And most of the higher ranking Imperials were killed over the course of the war.
Is the anti alien stic ever said in the actual films?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
4) There seems to be a mutilated Engineer from Prometheus running what's the left the Empire. Which, if I recall, was distinctly xenophobic. They sure got over that quick.
Palpatine was anti-alien. Everyone else not necessarily so. He never really got his agenda off the ground in this respect, so while some of the higher up Imperials would have held his views, that wouldn't have been the case universally. And most of the higher ranking Imperials were killed over the course of the war.
Is the anti alien stic ever said in the actual films?
No its not. I think Lucas sort of said it was the case after the fact to explain why there weren't any aliens in the Imperial forces, when the real reason was probably because he didn't want to budget different alien mooks in the background.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
4) There seems to be a mutilated Engineer from Prometheus running what's the left the Empire. Which, if I recall, was distinctly xenophobic. They sure got over that quick.
Palpatine was anti-alien. Everyone else not necessarily so. He never really got his agenda off the ground in this respect, so while some of the higher up Imperials would have held his views, that wouldn't have been the case universally. And most of the higher ranking Imperials were killed over the course of the war.
Which is why Hux is the front man and Snoke is shadowy figure leading them, who likely wears a hood to disguise his alien appearance.
-Loki- wrote:
40k is about slamming two slegdehammers together and hoping the other breaks first. Malifaux is about fighting with scalpels trying to hit select areas and hoping you connect more.
2016/01/10 20:05:30
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Hux is far too young and pathetic. I am presuming the Death Planet Star is the biggest and most important weapon the New Order have got. It certainly is an order of magnitude bigger than the original Death Star, which was commanded by a much more experienced general.
The Republic's star system was blown up including their planets and moons, so presumably whatever fleet they had was blown up at the same time. The rebels apparently are left with about a dozen X-Wings.
It was a bit of a throw-away, though. However it avoided all the tedious exposition about tax disputes that marred episode 1.
Hux is far too young and pathetic. I am presuming the Death Planet Star is the biggest and most important weapon the New Order have got. It certainly is an order of magnitude bigger than the original Death Star, which was commanded by a much more experienced general.
The Republic's star system was blown up including their planets and moons, so presumably whatever fleet they had was blown up at the same time. The rebels apparently are left with about a dozen X-Wings.
It was a bit of a throw-away, though. However it avoided all the tedious exposition about tax disputes that marred episode 1.
I never got the feeling that Hux was pathetic, rather that he didn't see the point in Ren being there and diverting resources away from the tasks that Hux felt were more important, hence their disagreements.
Hux wanted to destroy the Resistance and Republic, Ren wanted to find Luke.
Snoke seemed to regard them both as useful, which is a change from the Emperor and Vaders apparent regard for the common soldiery, with Vader force choking several Imperial officers and destroying at least one star destroyer in an asteroid field.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2016/01/10 20:58:28
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Also channeling hisninner Adolf. Thought he could use a bit more spittle, as well as making better use of his hand gestures, but otherwise pretty close. Leni Riefenstahl wouldve been proud.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2016/01/10 22:00:36
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Hux is far too young and pathetic. I am presuming the Death Planet Star is the biggest and most important weapon the New Order have got. It certainly is an order of magnitude bigger than the original Death Star, which was commanded by a much more experienced general.
The Republic's star system was blown up including their planets and moons, so presumably whatever fleet they had was blown up at the same time. The rebels apparently are left with about a dozen X-Wings.
It was a bit of a throw-away, though. However it avoided all the tedious exposition about tax disputes that marred episode 1.
I never got the feeling that Hux was pathetic, rather that he didn't see the point in Ren being there and diverting resources away from the tasks that Hux felt were more important, hence their disagreements.
Hux wanted to destroy the Resistance and Republic, Ren wanted to find Luke.
Snoke seemed to regard them both as useful, which is a change from the Emperor and Vaders apparent regard for the common soldiery, with Vader force choking several Imperial officers and destroying at least one star destroyer in an asteroid field.
It might also be that Snoke is dealing with the best that the diminished resources of a broken Empire can give him. I assume Hux is so young as all the old officer corp probably died with the explosion of Death Star 2 at Endor.
-Loki- wrote:
40k is about slamming two slegdehammers together and hoping the other breaks first. Malifaux is about fighting with scalpels trying to hit select areas and hoping you connect more.
2016/01/10 22:00:40
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Hux is far too young and pathetic. I am presuming the Death Planet Star is the biggest and most important weapon the New Order have got. It certainly is an order of magnitude bigger than the original Death Star, which was commanded by a much more experienced general.
The Republic's star system was blown up including their planets and moons, so presumably whatever fleet they had was blown up at the same time. The rebels apparently are left with about a dozen X-Wings.
It was a bit of a throw-away, though. However it avoided all the tedious exposition about tax disputes that marred episode 1.
I never got the feeling that Hux was pathetic, rather that he didn't see the point in Ren being there and diverting resources away from the tasks that Hux felt were more important, hence their disagreements.
Hux wanted to destroy the Resistance and Republic, Ren wanted to find Luke.
Snoke seemed to regard them both as useful, which is a change from the Emperor and Vaders apparent regard for the common soldiery, with Vader force choking several Imperial officers and destroying at least one star destroyer in an asteroid field.
Well, the Empire could afford to set examples with their high ranking officers. The First Order probably can't afford to lose their officers.
Hozzle was decidedly incompetent, so he needed to be removed.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Well, the Empire could afford to set examples with their high ranking officers. The First Order probably can't afford to lose their officers.
Hozzle was decidedly incompetent, so he needed to be removed.
But the commanding officer of the star destroyer who Han evaded by landing on said star destroyer wasn't. He had successfully located the Millennium Falcon, which none of the other officers had managed after it went into the asteroid belt when Han pulled his trick. It was also a damn good trick and neither Vader or any of the other officers saw through it.
Vader didn't care if it was really your fault. If something went wrong, he killed you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/10 22:08:06
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2016/01/10 22:07:00
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
True, he had anger issues like any self-respecting Sith Lord. I suppose the difference between him and Kylo is that Vader had control and was actually competent.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: True, he had anger issues like any self-respecting Sith Lord. I suppose the difference between him and Kylo is that Vader had control and was actually competent.
Yeah. Seeing the supposed bad guy lose himeself to the point he ignites and starts chopping up a wall just makes him kind of...well, pathetic really. Bad guys can be full of rage/violence, but when the first thing it makes you think of is the two year old throwing a tantrum you saw yesterday, it really detracts from the whole 'bad guy' motif.
2016/01/10 22:40:09
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Grey Templar wrote: True, he had anger issues like any self-respecting Sith Lord. I suppose the difference between him and Kylo is that Vader had control and was actually competent.
Yeah. Seeing the supposed bad guy lose himeself to the point he ignites and starts chopping up a wall just makes him kind of...well, pathetic really. Bad guys can be full of rage/violence, but when the first thing it makes you think of is the two year old throwing a tantrum you saw yesterday, it really detracts from the whole 'bad guy' motif.
Yeah, that's pretty much the point.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2016/01/10 23:20:35
Subject: Re:Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
Grey Templar wrote: True, he had anger issues like any self-respecting Sith Lord. I suppose the difference between him and Kylo is that Vader had control and was actually competent.
Yeah. Seeing the supposed bad guy lose himeself to the point he ignites and starts chopping up a wall just makes him kind of...well, pathetic really. Bad guys can be full of rage/violence, but when the first thing it makes you think of is the two year old throwing a tantrum you saw yesterday, it really detracts from the whole 'bad guy' motif.
Ordinarily yes, but I think that was intentional. Both the heroes and villains here are being portrayed as poorly trained individuals thrust into galaxy altering events. Its sort of a "How the mighty have fallen" type of adventure.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: True, he had anger issues like any self-respecting Sith Lord. I suppose the difference between him and Kylo is that Vader had control and was actually competent.
Yeah. Seeing the supposed bad guy lose himeself to the point he ignites and starts chopping up a wall just makes him kind of...well, pathetic really. Bad guys can be full of rage/violence, but when the first thing it makes you think of is the two year old throwing a tantrum you saw yesterday, it really detracts from the whole 'bad guy' motif.
Yeah, that's pretty much the point.
But you know, those things can go *sailing* over people's heads. Points, that is.
Grey Templar wrote: True, he had anger issues like any self-respecting Sith Lord. I suppose the difference between him and Kylo is that Vader had control and was actually competent.
Yeah. Seeing the supposed bad guy lose himeself to the point he ignites and starts chopping up a wall just makes him kind of...well, pathetic really. Bad guys can be full of rage/violence, but when the first thing it makes you think of is the two year old throwing a tantrum you saw yesterday, it really detracts from the whole 'bad guy' motif.
Yeah, that's pretty much the point.
But you know, those things can go *sailing* over people's heads. Points, that is.
They can make whatever points they want. It's their story. But if your epic sci-fi star wars sequel ends up feeling like an irrelevant slapping match between teenagers in an obscure corner of the galaxy as a result of all those points, you've lost track of the ball in my book. And that's kind of what happened here. That's more or less how I feel anyway.
With this 'Resistance' being so small, the Empire representatives all so young, and their interaction with the other (equally young) main characters so often immature or teenager-like, it just feels like it's lost...well, the scale of the thing. In the originals, you had space battles between fleets, ground assaults on fortified positions between armies, a galactic senate, constant references to the war at large, dialogue about the history of the Jedi, hints at past interactions between the characters (Leia/Tarkin for example), and more. It made it feel like the events were more momentous and galaxy shaking, and like the Universe it happened in was deep and interesting.
Instead we got some badly modified land based version of the Galaxy Gun fighting off a single squadron of X-Wings whilst a bunch of teenagers float between minor emotional scenes with each other. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong necessarily with that. But for me? It just feels like the scope/scale has receded far into the distance, which magnifies how poorly the Empire contemporaries compare to their predecessors, and stops them feeling like the 'bad' guys, and more as 'Edward Cullen in space'.
So as I said, if you have no real care for past history or canon consistency, it's a decent film. But as a Star Wars fan, it just didn't measure up to scratch for me.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2016/01/11 00:35:30
2016/01/11 00:26:48
Subject: Star Wars The Force Awakens -- full of spoilers so beware !
The rose-colored glasses are strong with this one.
The original Star Wars movie is nowhere near as complex as you're making it sound.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
