Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Via Target:

August 7, 2015
Shop a Target store and chances are you’ll discover something exciting. Maybe it’s a quick-fix mix & match meal your family will love, or the perfect pair of earrings to complete that new outfit. We love hearing our guests talk, tweet and post about their unexpected Target finds. To help guests navigate our stores, we put a lot of thought into how things are organized. As part of that, we use signs and displays specially designed to help guests get through the store efficiently while pointing the way to more inspiration and great products.

But we never want guests or their families to feel frustrated or limited by the way things are presented. Over the past year, guests have raised important questions about a handful of signs in our stores that offer product suggestions based on gender. In some cases, like apparel, where there are fit and sizing differences, it makes sense. In others, it may not. Historically, guests have told us that sometimes—for example, when shopping for someone they don’t know well—signs that sort by brand, age or gender help them get ideas and find things faster. But we know that shopping preferences and needs change and, as guests have pointed out, in some departments like Toys, Home or Entertainment, suggesting products by gender is unnecessary.

We heard you, and we agree. Right now, our teams are working across the store to identify areas where we can phase out gender-based signage to help strike a better balance. For example, in the kids’ Bedding area, signs will no longer feature suggestions for boys or girls, just kids. In the Toys aisles, we’ll also remove reference to gender, including the use of pink, blue, yellow or green paper on the back walls of our shelves. You’ll see these changes start to happen over the next few months.

We thank guests all the time for challenging us to get better at what we do and take the shopping trip to new levels. We’re always listening, and your thoughts and ideas help us make Target, your Target, a better place.

I am pretty happy with the decision and I think it is a pretty good step in the right direction when it comes to labeling everything by gender and attaching certain stereotypes to different genders. This is something that I have tried to be very mindful about when it comes to raising my own daughter and I feel that it is very important that I don't limit her choices in many areas just because "she is a girl". I have already read different people who are against this move and think that this is some kind of PC gone mad or a move against gender as a concept, but I honestly think that statements like that really miss the mark.

Removing gender based signs from bedding doesn't mean that girls can't be girls or that boys can't be boys. It also doesn't mean that girls can't buy pink sheets and that boys can't buy blue sheets. It just means that girls and boys can buy sheets of any color in the kids section and that they are not restricted to certain colors that are in "their" section. Nothing will stop little girls from picking out pink sheets if that is what they want and nothing will stop parents from picking up pink sheets if that is what they want for their child. It will be the same way with toys: girls will be able to pick from every toy and they can still pick Barbie dolls if they want to, and boys will be able to pick from every toy and they can still pick toy soldiers if they want to.

The message isn't "girls are told that they can be whatever they want to be", it's "girls are told that they can play with whatever they want to play". And it's the same way with boys of course. And that is how we have tried to raise our daughter so far and to help her realize that colors are for everyone and that toys are for kids. She has plenty of pink and purple outfits and pretty little dresses. And she also has outfits of every other color as well. She has baby dolls and dinosaurs, toy cars and a tea set, Duplo blocks of every color, a toy kitchen, and a toy hardware set. We are definitely not "anti-pink" or "anti-girly stuff", we are just against the notion that kids are restricted to certain items or certain activities just because they are a certain gender, let kids be kids!

That's what makes me happy about this decision.

In closing, here is my daughter wearing "boy clothes" instead of a "girl" version of this outfit:



Because the TMNT are green, and even girl turtles are green

I support this. I mean, clothes, and other items, where there is an actual (average) biological difference in size, go ahead, sort them by gender. For toys? feth that. Let the children play with what they want.

I saw this in action yesterday as we were looking through the toy section at target. The brown tacboard in all of the aisles was awful looking, so hopefully they'll just replace it with red soon.

In many respects, I agree with you, d-usa (my daughter actually has that same shirt!) but I absolutely buy from the girls section of clothing stores more often than the boys section, and most likely will until her hair is a little bit longer and/or she can start to pick stuff out herself.

Truth be told, she's going to get enough "boy influence" from the fact that her dad is steeped in geek culture, so I don't much concern myself with it. When we do let her watch some TV, we show her both Sofia the First and Jake & the Neverland Pirates; she responds well to both.

So...while I understand it, I don't really support it. Not really. I do think it's an over-PCing of the US, and I'll readily admit if I had a son I certainly would be less inclined to buy him things (toys and clothes) designed for girls than I currently am in regards to buying my daughter things designed for boys.

Though, I am probably going to get my daughter's ears pierced for her first birthday, and I've come to understand from Facebook that this also makes me an awful parent. I guess I have to deal with it.

I was disappointed to find that Target still has Men's and Women's deodorant gendered in their aisles, though. I really hope to see this changed, and soon.

I was with you until you said deodorants.

Be as PC as you want to be. I don't want to smell like a girl. Thats why I use Eau de Fajitas.

 Frazzled wrote:
I was with you until you said deodorants.

Be as PC as you want to be. I don't want to smell like a girl. Thats why I use Eau de Fajitas.

Frazz... I have a dream of an aisle, completely free of gendering, where the CIS-Human in all of us can be surrounded on both sides by rows and rows of non-gendered deodorants and antiperspirants, where Secret's blasphemous slogan is changed to, "Strong Enough for a Man/Woman/LGBT/CIS/Burrito, Made for a Man/Woman/LGBT/CIS/Burrito," and where Old Spice is no longer heinously intolerant of young people and is simply branded as, "All Ages Spice."

Quit your micro aggressions against the Aged. Old Spice will always be Old Spice.

And can it not have axe Mace.....I mean body spray.

Good.

I'm tired of trying to explain to my daughters that they can buy any Lego set, not just the "girl ones." There is no reason why dolls have to be labled "girls" and superheroes have to be labled "boys." People complaining about this and calling it "PC culture gone too far" are just proof that complaining about something being "PC" as a catch-all for gak they don't like.

A child can decide what they they like and don't like; both of my daughters like Disney princesses, Star Wars, Barbies, TMNT, and the Avengers. My older daughter likes pink and peach while my younger daughter like blue and green.

I've never really fully been in the anti-gendering camp, sure where stuff is toxic or exploitative get rid of it but otherwise "meh". It's harmless I guess and I've got a lot of friends who'd cheer this kind of that but I can't manage a stronger than thought than "Eh? I guess that works too."

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Good.

I'm tired of trying to explain to my daughters that they can buy any Lego set, not just the "girl ones."

Is this a hard conversation? Genuinely interested, as it's one I'll have to have eventually.

A child can decide what they they like and don't like; both of my daughters like Disney princesses, Star Wars, Barbies, TMNT, and the Avengers. My older daughter likes pink and peach while my younger daughter like blue and green.

I agree. Doesn't making aisles gender neutral prevent this?

 cincydooley wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Good.

I'm tired of trying to explain to my daughters that they can buy any Lego set, not just the "girl ones."

Is this a hard conversation? Genuinely interested, as it's one I'll have to have eventually.

It shouldn't be "hard", it's just that it could be awkward for kids to understand why they don't have to follow these particular signs. If all the boy toys are in one section, and all the girl toys are in another, you can be faced with kids feeling like they cannot buy the Star Wars Lego set because it's in the boy section and they are girls.

A child can decide what they they like and don't like; both of my daughters like Disney princesses, Star Wars, Barbies, TMNT, and the Avengers. My older daughter likes pink and peach while my younger daughter like blue and green.

I agree. Doesn't making aisles gender neutral prevent this?

I do think that it would, and I think it would actually end up minimizing some of the gender confusion concerns that people are voicing in opposition to this.

If you have a girl who likes blue, they would have to go to the "boys" section of the store. Instead of the store telling her "you are a girl, you have to like pink, here is all your pink stuff" and having to explain that it's okay to like blue stuff and having "yes, blue stuff is in the boy section, no that doesn't mean that you are a boy just because you like blue, you are still a girl" conversation, you now have "here is all the kids stuff, pick out a sheet, you like the blue one, cool". In the long term you end up talking less about expectations based on gender because you no longer have the "not this aisle honey, this one is for boys" conversations. Nothing is really stopping you from sticking to the same pattern though and as a parent you can still make the same "not this blanket, that is a boy color" decision if you are so inclined.

You are only really 'forced' to have awkward conversations about if it is okay to like "boy toys" or "boy colors" because over the last 20 years or so everything has suddenly become color coded and assigned to certain genders. This whole issue really shouldn't have anything to do with gender identity or "how will my daughter know she is a girl" or other concerns like that because liking blue or liking TMNT really doesn't have anything to do with being a girl or not. Imagine going to a play ground and having two slides, one blue and one pink, and telling a kid that one of them is for boys and one for girls. They are both the same slide, why assign gender to something that has nothing to do with anything?

I'm happy that kids can go into a store and just pick up a toy without having gender roles forced down their throats. Now I'm not someone that is going to sneak up behind you when you are shopping and whisper in your girls ears that she can pick up a blue blanket if she wants one or tell you that you are a bad parent for having her pick out a pink one. I may think that one way is healthier than another, but like piercing her ears, that is your decision as a parent. I will talk to you about it if you ask me, like we are doing here, but I wouldn't go out on my way to force my views on you if I saw you in public.

In the end I'm happy that the store is no longer assigning gender functions to random objects in their stores, but that the decision is ultimately back in the hand of the parents where it belongs.

 cincydooley wrote:
tacboard

I read that as tacoboard. Now I'm hungry.

Heading out to get tacos.

 d-usa wrote:


In the end I'm happy that the store is no longer assigning gender functions to random objects in their stores, but that the decision is ultimately back in the hand of the parents where it belongs.

I guess my question is, "Was it really ever gone?"

Tacos are much better if you make them yourself.

Also, I can sort of understand not using blue and pink paint anymore, but green and yellow? Those are gender-neutral colors AFAIK...

The ultimate decision was still there, but cultural pressure encourages people into positions they would not have taken if all they had to consider was their personal preference.

Child gender branding could be the most obvious (the blue/pink divide), but gender norms are there for adults too.
Galaxy chocolate and Maltesers are for women, Yorkie bars and Snickers are for men. Diet Coke for women, Mountain Dew for men. Lambrini for the girls, Carlsberg for the lads.

A lot of this is mildly harmless humour until you realise our western culture is saturated with it. It's one of those red pill/blue pill moments. Once you open your eyes to it you can't un-see it.

I'll be honest. i don't care at all. In the last three days GC had pink hair then orange (as in warning sign orange) then non gloss black hair so dark you can't properly see the edges. Kids these days dress in any fashion or style they want.

(I'll be honest she looked wicked as Harley Quinn)

I can never tell which side is for men and which side is for women when I am in The Gap and/or Victoria's Secret, which has lead to much embarrassment and misunderstanding...

 cincydooley wrote:

 d-usa wrote:


In the end I'm happy that the store is no longer assigning gender functions to random objects in their stores, but that the decision is ultimately back in the hand of the parents where it belongs.

I guess my question is, "Was it really ever gone?"

Not really?

 Henry wrote:
The ultimate decision was still there, but cultural pressure encourages people into positions they would not have taken if all they had to consider was their personal preference.

I'm not sure that cultural pressure in the school yard will be in any way,shape, or form affected by Target's de-genderization of their toy aisles.

And I'm new to this parenting thing, but I guess my belief, passed on from my parents, is that it's a parent's job to have these kinds of conversations with their kids. I guess this makes it easier? I dunno.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Henry wrote:
The ultimate decision was still there, but cultural pressure encourages people into positions they would not have taken if all they had to consider was their personal preference.

I'm not sure that cultural pressure in the school yard will be in any way,shape, or form affected by Target's de-genderization of their toy aisles.

And I'm new to this parenting thing, but I guess my belief, passed on from my parents, is that it's a parent's job to have these kinds of conversations with their kids. I guess this makes it easier? I dunno.

No no no if they are old enough to have a conversation and it doesn't involve when you are picking them up from their shift at the coal mine, you are doing it wrong.

 Frazzled wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Henry wrote:
The ultimate decision was still there, but cultural pressure encourages people into positions they would not have taken if all they had to consider was their personal preference.

I'm not sure that cultural pressure in the school yard will be in any way,shape, or form affected by Target's de-genderization of their toy aisles.

And I'm new to this parenting thing, but I guess my belief, passed on from my parents, is that it's a parent's job to have these kinds of conversations with their kids. I guess this makes it easier? I dunno.

No no no if they are old enough to have a conversation and it doesn't involve when you are picking them up from their shift at the coal mine, you are doing it wrong.

We were thinking munitions plant. Our gal is petite and has tiny fingers.

Good good. That will teach them dexterity and proper flame safety procedures. "Do you know how else I polish the insides of 40mm casings? Do you?"

Bran Dawri wrote:
Tacos are much better if you make them yourself.

And unless you have everything in your home already you have to leave to get the ingredients.

As for 'parents choice', unless one has no forms of media, no contact with other humans, and are touched in the head then they will constantly be bombarded with unconscious codes of gender. Masculine/feminine behavior and/or likes didn't arise in one second and just because Target tries to do away with them doesn't mean they haven't already been out there or that kids haven't already perceived them. Parents can minimize and reduce their effects but that doesn't mean they suddenly don't exist.

 Ahtman wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:
Tacos are much better if you make them yourself.

And unless you have everything in your home already you have to leave to get the ingredients.

As a Texan this has never been an issue unless you're a foreign devil who thinks wheat tacos are a real thing.

 Frazzled wrote:
As a Texan this has never been an issue unless you're a foreign devil who thinks wheat tacos are a real thing.

Well I think it is assumed that Texans keep several animals out back just to slaughter at any given moment to make the meat for tacos so they don't have to leave the house.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
As a Texan this has never been an issue unless you're a foreign devil who thinks wheat tacos are a real thing.

Well I think it is assumed that Texans keep several animals out back just to slaughter at any given moment to make the meat for tacos so they don't have to leave the house.

Exactly.

Frankly we've gotten to the point where its hard to find a place that makes better fajitas and fixings then what we can make.

 Frazzled wrote:
Frankly we've gotten to the point where its hard to find a place that makes better fajitas and fixings then what we can make.

This is you now.

We're a bit OT here now, lads.

For myself, I think the change is rather minor and not really a big deal. I think in our culture now things get quickly taken out of proportion, and this is something like that, imo. I have absolutely no problem with stores that want to keep separate sections for ease of shopping, and if some want to merge them together or remove labeling, that is also fine... I'll shop where is most convenient. I love both Starbucks AND Chik-fil-A

 Henry wrote:
Galaxy chocolate and Maltesers are for women, Yorkie bars and Snickers are for men. Diet Coke for women, Mountain Dew for men. Lambrini for the girls, Carlsberg for the lads.

I'll be perfectly honest, with the exception of Yorkie, I've never seen any of these divides as gender-based. I just eat (or drink) whichever one is cheaper/closer!

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Good.

I'm tired of trying to explain to my daughters that they can buy any Lego set, not just the "girl ones." There is no reason why dolls have to be labled "girls" and superheroes have to be labled "boys." People complaining about this and calling it "PC culture gone too far" are just proof that complaining about something being "PC" as a catch-all for gak they don't like.

A child can decide what they they like and don't like; both of my daughters like Disney princesses, Star Wars, Barbies, TMNT, and the Avengers. My older daughter likes pink and peach while my younger daughter like blue and green.

This is a very relevant topic for me, because I grew up with Lego and it was what I spent a lot of my child life on. I was never really faced with any of that 'girly girl' Lego. I have a brother who is 2 years older than I am, which in practice meant that my house was filled with Star Wars, Pirates and so on instead of Disney princesses. As the typical younger sibling, I was always follower other than leader, participating in what he set up and building my own role in that theme. (This may well have been the fundaments for my later interest in wargaming!)

I support the removal of gender-directed advertisements, aisles, etc. At such a young age, children are very impressionable, and any social pressures that could be removed should be removed.