Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=1341281714

What do you guys think of them?

So far I see nothing out of place.

In fact everything I wanted is on there.

For 6mm it looks like I have 7080 points with the option to take more stuff. When I get a second army I will have to do a 7k game with 2 huge armies.

Huge fan of the komodon Artillery as a mobile war-machine, especially at my scale where it will be a fair few turns before closing into range.

Ankylodon battle platform is where the fun is for me though.

Great list so far. After some games I will post feed back on the Mantic forum.

Nice. I know a good number of people in our group are looking forward to trying these out.

Wait, why aren't they Aztec space demon lizards?

They all got blown up or flew away

With as much as two of our gaming group have talked this game up this list is honestly a lot of 'meh' to me when I was hoping it would genuinely entice me to give it a try.

My problems with it are from a few angles. From a gameplay perspective some of these units seem like auto skip. The CC geko blocks look like a genuine waste of points. Corsairs ranged to hit being too much of a gamble are two right off the bat that strike as useless.

From a fluffy side of things whoever named the big and stompy cavalry Rhinosaurs needs his nuts slammed in a filing cabinet for letting his five year old do his job.
I did consider that maybe their ment to be like a Ceratosaur but Im generally underwhelmed with mantics sculpts so I doubt thats the case.

Alot of the monsters actually just strike me as underwhelming. A few lacking even a melee profile and none of the names or profiles really stand out in ehelping me picture what their supposed to be.

I was hoping this list would sell me on the idea on using blocks lizardmen from the beast with a thousand lawyers, but really its just making me think Ill just give AoS a go.

Wow, harsh.

I didn't have time to pore over the two new lists in detail, but I could see myself getting a GW Lizzie force if the rules are decent.

It's a lot less frustrating when you don't already own any models, though. I dunno if they actually lost any options and if they did, it's no skin off my back (unlike the Ratmen)

Can't work which (if any) is meant to be the Slann. Can't be the mage priest as you'd never get one to balance on a paltry 25mm base. Nice to see a heavier cavalry option than centaurs but I don't see much here to make me stop just using the standard force of nature lists for my lizzies, especially since it seems to be using elementals for the same large infantry units that I am. Might make more sense to people who bought the newer WFB v7 and 8 units (my stuff is all 6th edition).

...none of which is going to stop me getting the book-o-armies for the additional forces when it comes out

I don't think any of them are supposed to be Slann, since these lists aren't exact 1:1 copies from the Warhammer factions.

For example, I don't think the Warriors of Chaos ever had a bow-armed unit of Marauders, right? And there's no hellfire cannon, either.

Wasn't there going to be 2 Lizardmen Lists? Maybe some GW stuff will feature there.

Now the forums are back up I am gonna catch up on the info that's been talked about it.

Personally everything I need is featured here.

 infinite_array wrote:
I don't think any of them are supposed to be Slann, since these lists aren't exact 1:1 copies from the Warhammer factions.

For example, I don't think the Warriors of Chaos ever had a bow-armed unit of Marauders, right? And there's no hellfire cannon, either.

I think 25 years ago Chaos Thugs might have done.......

There is no direct copy of the Slaan, our suggestion is to use it as one of the monsters that acts as a War Engine.

 infinite_array wrote:
I don't think any of them are supposed to be Slann, since these lists aren't exact 1:1 copies from the Warhammer factions.

For example, I don't think the Warriors of Chaos ever had a bow-armed unit of Marauders, right? And there's no hellfire cannon, either.

True but as the purpose of these lists is to cover stuff that people with armies from other games that aren't (yet) part of Mantica own and want to be able to use in KoW and most lizardman armies are likely to be coming from warhammer the omission of their most iconic general/mage type seems a bit odd. Doesn't bother me me too much as I'm using mine to bulk up a salamander horde's footprint at the moment.

Though it has just occurred to me to use him as the war engine and have his fat toady ass throwing long range magical blasts from the baseline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baragash wrote:

There is no direct copy of the Slaan, our suggestion is to use it as one of the monsters that acts as a War Engine.

Snap.

 Baragash wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:
I don't think any of them are supposed to be Slann, since these lists aren't exact 1:1 copies from the Warhammer factions.

For example, I don't think the Warriors of Chaos ever had a bow-armed unit of Marauders, right? And there's no hellfire cannon, either.

I think 25 years ago Chaos Thugs might have done.......

There is no direct copy of the Slaan, our suggestion is to use it as one of the monsters that acts as a War Engine.

Yep - Chaos Thugs were the proto-Marauders, and had both Mohawks and bows.

And were made from plastic for a board game, about thirty years ago.... Battlemasters....

The Auld Grump

This list needs bows I think.

 Swastakowey wrote:
This list needs bows I think.

Bows or atl atls as well as dart guns, yes.

I think that the list does need something to fill the Slann's role - the frog on a plate was an expensive model, and not being able to field it as something unique... would annoy folks enough for them to drop the list, I think.

Perhaps 'Great Palanquin' and make it a magic using Monster?

Skipping it... is a bad choice, I think.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
This list needs bows I think.

Bows or atl atls as well as dart guns, yes.

I think that the list does need something to fill the Slann's role - the frog on a plate was an expensive model, and not being able to field it as something unique... would annoy folks enough for them to drop the list, I think.

Perhaps 'Great Palanquin' and make it a magic using Monster?

Skipping it... is a bad choice, I think.

The Auld Grump

But at the same time Mantic has to try distance itself from GW. I can see why the slann was ignored.

I think short term the decision is detrimental, but long term they will be better off without it.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
This list needs bows I think.

Bows or atl atls as well as dart guns, yes.

I think that the list does need something to fill the Slann's role - the frog on a plate was an expensive model, and not being able to field it as something unique... would annoy folks enough for them to drop the list, I think.

Perhaps 'Great Palanquin' and make it a magic using Monster?

Skipping it... is a bad choice, I think.

The Auld Grump

But at the same time Mantic has to try distance itself from GW. I can see why the slann was ignored.

I think short term the decision is detrimental, but long term they will be better off without it.

Not if this move costs them more customers than it gains.

The thing is... it does not need to be the same thing as it is in Warhammer.

It does not need to be a frog on a plate - it can just as easily be described as anything from Tsathagua the frog god from the Cthulhu Mythos to Quetzalcoatl of Aztec lore.

Perhaps 'Avatar' might be a better name choice than Palanquin - a representation of a living god upon the mortal battlefield. Make the god of water a frog god, and Bob's your uncle.

Icon might be a useable term as well.

So, an array of deities, not just the frog god that might be represented by a frog on a plate. Air, Earth, Fire, and Water - with Fire... perhaps Salamandros?

The Auld Grump

True I suppose that makes sense. Maybe just one chunky lizard mage will do the trick.

Huh. So, we could have lizard pirates with pistols? I'm down with that.

Yea I had to do a double take on that, usually the Lizards are portrayed as archaic and so on.


I wonder when easy army will update his site with the new beta lists?

A bow option for ghekkotah is already on the to-do list.

Struggling to fit the Ankylodon into a list at 250 points. I'd prefer that the ranged attacks were an option so it could be taken as a cheaper melee only (or melee plus ballista) choice. I feel there are a lot of points being chewed up giving it 360 degree short ranged vicious attacks by default and at CS4 I'd rather be trampling on stuff (it'd be interesting to know how much those blowpipes with vicious+omniscient are actually costed at).

Honestly, I was a bit underwhelmed as well. My son plays lizards, and has had good luck with the forces of nature list. Salamanders for saurus works well, of course, and they have beasts that fit for stegadons and the laser-beam weilding bastiladon. He uses the flying Pegasus rules for the slaan, which actually works out well...very powerful healing magic, inspiring, etc. It flys a little faster, but I like that it can charge and do some damage...the slaan has a giant floating throne with big horns sticking out of it, and I wouldn't want it slamming into me.

The only real gains are mounted "saurus" and "skinks" in the new list, which are nice, but not deal changers.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:
I don't think any of them are supposed to be Slann, since these lists aren't exact 1:1 copies from the Warhammer factions.

For example, I don't think the Warriors of Chaos ever had a bow-armed unit of Marauders, right? And there's no hellfire cannon, either.

I think 25 years ago Chaos Thugs might have done.......

There is no direct copy of the Slaan, our suggestion is to use it as one of the monsters that acts as a War Engine.

Yep - Chaos Thugs were the proto-Marauders, and had both Mohawks and bows.

And were made from plastic for a board game, about thirty years ago.... Battlemasters....

The Auld Grump

Huh. I actually have some of those. Figured they were just chaos marauders from an early GW game, didn't know they actually had a different name.
Haven't gone through the not-chaos list too well yet, but at a quick glance I'm not sure how I feel. Doesn't seem to have the personality of Chaos for me.

The Slaan could be a unit upgrade. Maybe one limited to x amount per army, giving a unit magical capabilities? Just an idea, Im not fussed either way.

Quick question because I am clueless. The ghekkotah are sort of the skink equivalent, right?

Yes.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:
I don't think any of them are supposed to be Slann, since these lists aren't exact 1:1 copies from the Warhammer factions.

For example, I don't think the Warriors of Chaos ever had a bow-armed unit of Marauders, right? And there's no hellfire cannon, either.

I think 25 years ago Chaos Thugs might have done.......

There is no direct copy of the Slaan, our suggestion is to use it as one of the monsters that acts as a War Engine.

Yep - Chaos Thugs were the proto-Marauders, and had both Mohawks and bows.

And were made from plastic for a board game, about thirty years ago.... Battlemasters....

The Auld Grump

Huh. I actually have some of those. Figured they were just chaos marauders from an early GW game, didn't know they actually had a different name.
Haven't gone through the not-chaos list too well yet, but at a quick glance I'm not sure how I feel. Doesn't seem to have the personality of Chaos for me.

I've got some of the Craven archers from Red Box Games and the archer drunes from the Mierce Ysian muster so I'm glad the option is in there for me to include them. I like the way the list was done but my WoC was always a low fantasy barbarian horde project for me. I can see how players who enjoyed a stronger Chaos god theme would be disappointed that it doesn't translate as well.

I think what strikes me as annoying with this whole can of worms is that Mantic essentially stood up and yelled "Oh GW killed your favorite army in WFB, well guess what you can come play them in our game!" And now their backpedaling with a lot of "Oh their like your old army but their our army so their totally different but you can use the same models IF you can make them fit somehow in our lists!"

They seem to be very wishful in hoping that the people their trying to attract will be more focused on their rules. Which admittedly are quite good. And forget the flavor and draw of what pulled people to certain armies.Like a distinct lack of uberwizards and big killy dinosaurs in the Salamander list.

Except that's what what drew people to certain armies in Warhammer.

KoW doesn't go in for the big stompy monsters and uberwizards, except in small doses.

As for a "can of worms" - I'm not seeing any apart from your reaction. If anything, be glad that Mantic has decided to offer lists for armies they don't sell. A concept like that would blow the minds of any of GW's upper ranks.

Except they are going to sell Salamanders at somepoint.

This list isnt just for GW players but a building block for their own thing. Mantic is just much easier going with allowing proxies on an official level.

It feels in my own opinion a touch off to declare this is for GW players. And then proceed to strip out what many looking to make the switch like the best about the army their building from.

Seriously, how many lizardmen players are actually going to tell you they got into the army for saurus blocks and skink clouds?

I'm not intending to be combative. I've gotten to play a game and its a good game. But this list just doesnt inspire me. Yes I am certian a hundred percent that it will be far more balanced than anything GW will ever produce. But its a completely different animal than what I was hoping for.