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Hi all.

Somehow I got washed up in a friend's tournament and now I'm looking towards the 3rd tabletop game of my life. I more or less know the rules and I have a vague idea about how to play the match, but I'd like to ask for some advice.


Game rules:
7th edition (DA is 6th edition)

Random deployment zone
Variable game length
Night fighting
Reserves
Only rocks and stones on the map, no buildings

Victory conditions:
1 victory point for each unit destroyed or retreating at the end, HQ is worth 2.
Slay the Warlord, First blood.

My list:

Chaos lord (HQ)
Terminator armour, Combi plasma, MoK, Axe of Blinding Fury, Sigil of Corruption, VotLW

3 Terminators
2 Combi Plasma, MoN, 3 Lightning Claws, VotLW

14 CSM
(penalty from a lost game, -1 BS for them)
MoN, 13 CCW, 1 plasma gun, 1 Icon of Vengeance, 1 power sword, VotlW

9 Khorne Berzerkers
Icon of wrath, 9 chainaxe, 1 power sword, VoltW

Dedicated transport to Berzerkers: Rhino: Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launcher

20 Cultists
20 autoguns

5 Havocs
4 Lascannon

Helbrute
Power Fist, Heavy Flamer, Power Scourge

Heldrake
Baleflame


DA list:

Belial (HQ)

Interrogator Chaplain
terminator armour, mace of redemption, crozius arcanum

DW command squad
banner of fortitude, 4x Thunder Hammer + Stormshiled, 1 lightning claw

2x 5 terminators
2x 1 assault cannon

5 Scouts
5x sniper rifle, 5x camo cloak

6 Black Knight
2 grenade launcher, 1 power sword



How would you conduct the game/what would you do differently?

I suppose the opponent will keep his units clustered around the banner, apart from his Scouts and Black Knights.

Havocs will keep picking at the Terminators and Berzerkers/Helbrute will follow up after a couple of them falls to mop up.
Same with the Cultists - if they get 1-2 terminators or black knights, they'll return the investment.

The Nurgle squad will spearhead, trying to attract fire

Lord will stay away from the scouts/get in melee with the termies to avoid being sniped.
Berzerkers will try and flank, preferably on the wing with the scouts.

Heldrake goes for the scouts as soon as it arrives. If they retreat, it can turn against the clustered units.

Why would you ever have the Heldrake go for the Scouts first? Those Black Knights are going to be the issue.

Even if you're facing Space Marines, VotLW is wasted points. Plus you have limited ways to reach combat.

Terminator Lords are terribad compared to the Loyalist variant. You only have one Land Raider and the Spartan, and not accurate Deep Strike. If you want 2+, get the Crimson Slaughter supplement and buy the Daemonheart.

Lascannons are too expensive. Havocs have one advantage over Loyalists that you should take advantage of: Autocannons. They're not AP2 or S9 but they have the same range, it'll hurt less when they die, and 8 S7 shots is a pretty good deal for 115.

You're getting no advantage with the large Space Marine squad. Keep them at 10 and buy a Rhino and max out your Plasma Guns where you can for them.

You talk about the Cultists killing one Terminator and they'll make their points back. The truth is that you won't get them into range for that to happen, or the Terminators will Deep Strike first and kill a few of them, to the point that mathematically trying to shoot the Terminators again would be a waste of time.

-1 BS for a lost game on your CSM?!??? They suck bad enough without the penalty... I seriously wouldn't field them at -1 BS.
You're playing with no line breaker and basically kill points.. The Rhino will give up first blood... I would seriously rework this list to ignore close combat and just shoot from further than he can reach you. Havocs, obliterators, noise marines (with blastmaster).
Either that or switch it up for a more survivable/quicker close combat force... Think a Nurgle Lord on a bike with Plague marines as troops.. 2 x 5 man squads with 2 plasma guns.

omg you are being punished for losing with the weakest army? God that is unfair. Expect to see your entire army with -1 bs at the end of the campaign / tournament.

How quick can you convert your marines and Berserkers into Plague Marines? If not then try the Khorne demon kin witb msu marines and cultists for worthless blood tithe points that try to reward you for losing units.

I personally would run this

Lord, MoN, pf

14 marines+9 kb = 23 Plague Marines ÷ into 4 squads of 5 or 3 squads of 7.

I prefer 4x5 Plague Marines to get 8 plasmaguns or melta guns. Since you have 1 rhino I would make the ones in the rhino with melta guns and the rest foot slog with Plasma guns.

1 squad of 20 cultists

Helturkey with bbq sauce

5 Havocs with 4 ac+ 3 extra guys

Helbrute with plasma cannon.

Honestly I would take each marine with a bolt gun and glue a coffee straw on the muzzel and green stuff additional details to make autocannons.

3 squads of havocs with 4 autocannons are good general purpose shooting. It does not kill termi but the str 7 still wounds on 2s and he might fail armor. Its great for hordes with sv4. Its great for av11+12 and glances av13.

Banner of Fortitude? I though that was removed from the Dark Angels Codex...

 PandaHero wrote:
Banner of Fortitude? I though that was removed from the Dark Angels Codex...

I was just about to point out the same thing but then I noticed that it says in the opening post that DA is using 6th edition codex.

By that logic, this guy should use 3rd edition rules for chaos space marines.

 Filch wrote:
By that logic, this guy should use 3rd edition rules for chaos space marines.

How does that make any sense? Why should he use older rules? I'd happily play against someone using the older DA codex with my new one. So many units got strictly better in the new one, not to mention cheaper. If someone wants to gimp their army why should it bother you at all?

 PandaHero wrote:
Banner of Fortitude? I though that was removed from the Dark Angels Codex...

it was the guy is a butthurt hack who is using an out of date codex which is cheating


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Filch wrote:
By that logic, this guy should use 3rd edition rules for chaos space marines.

How does that make any sense? Why should he use older rules? I'd happily play against someone using the older DA codex with my new one. So many units got strictly better in the new one, not to mention cheaper. If someone wants to gimp their army why should it bother you at all?

thats irrelevant, the DA codex he is using doesnt have its errata's that means he gets to abuse PFG's, he gets to have an unlimited shot lions roar, and he gets to have invincible land raiders with 4+ invul saves

the 6th edition DA codex wasnt amazing ill be the first to admit that and objectively the new book is better, but that doesnt make it any less of a cheese book loaded with nonsense. if he uses the 6th book demand he use the errata's and FAQ's and when he cant get them because BL took them down and he cant get them by some other means his army is invalid.

im curious to know what would happen if you threw old codex at the new one in a heads up fight, i imagine the old book would get royally stomped

thank you ionusx.

 ionusx wrote:

 PandaHero wrote:
Banner of Fortitude? I though that was removed from the Dark Angels Codex...

it was the guy is a butthurt hack who is using an out of date codex which is cheating


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Filch wrote:
By that logic, this guy should use 3rd edition rules for chaos space marines.

How does that make any sense? Why should he use older rules? I'd happily play against someone using the older DA codex with my new one. So many units got strictly better in the new one, not to mention cheaper. If someone wants to gimp their army why should it bother you at all?

thats irrelevant, the DA codex he is using doesnt have its errata's that means he gets to abuse PFG's, he gets to have an unlimited shot lions roar, and he gets to have invincible land raiders with 4+ invul saves

the 6th edition DA codex wasnt amazing ill be the first to admit that and objectively the new book is better, but that doesnt make it any less of a cheese book loaded with nonsense. if he uses the 6th book demand he use the errata's and FAQ's and when he cant get them because BL took them down and he cant get them by some other means his army is invalid.

im curious to know what would happen if you threw old codex at the new one in a heads up fight, i imagine the old book would get royally stomped

In theory I agree with you about the potential abuse of PFG and such but if you look at the army list posted none of the stuff you mentioned are actually in the army. Let's not forget that without a FAQ, Belial doesn't have an Iron Halo either so has to rely on a 5++ if without a storm shield. His scouts are also WS/BS3. Once again, in all relevant cases his army is worse with the old codex. Why should that bother you at all?

PFG got FAQ'd. If he's using the old codex, he's using the old FAQ (it doesn't work if you're embarked).

Except for the 5 havocs, you could use the Khorne Daemonkin codex which is WAY better...and you get the added bonus of cheering when your own units/champions die to give you blood tithe points - (which you can use to summon more demons)

So... I played the game, and I was abroad so I couldn't post any replies.

I guess I've missed a lot of context.
I have a unit pool that can't be changed during the campaign. I have to pick the army from them with no "what you see is what you get" rule. So I can switch the equipment, but not the units.
Primarily the HQ, a Chaos Lord with a MoK is static along with the Khorne Berzerkers. So no elite troops from the other gods. And I'm limited to only one Rhino. That's starting to grate on my nerves already as every other army I've faced gets in a better position.

So basically (I'll remember to play Nurgle any time I get into a campaign with different options..).
I should avoid VotlW in every case and switch Havocs to Autocannons in almost every situation?

you should just tell you gm that its not fun playing a weak codex and being gimped by a shoddy list.

Allowed only 1 rhino? wtf?

I have only 1 Rhino miniature, so that's not the GM's fault (tbh it is, I1m using his army )

Thrazzon wrote:
So... I played the game, and I was abroad so I couldn't post any replies.

I guess I've missed a lot of context.
I have a unit pool that can't be changed during the campaign. I have to pick the army from them with no "what you see is what you get" rule. So I can switch the equipment, but not the units.
Primarily the HQ, a Chaos Lord with a MoK is static along with the Khorne Berzerkers. So no elite troops from the other gods. And I'm limited to only one Rhino. That's starting to grate on my nerves already as every other army I've faced gets in a better position.

So basically (I'll remember to play Nurgle any time I get into a campaign with different options..).
I should avoid VotlW in every case and switch Havocs to Autocannons in almost every situation?

Pretty much. the VotLW gives a tiny Ld boost (that is nice, I'll admit) and a small boost to first round of assault against specific armies.
Now, if you KNOW you are facing marines, grab that on any unit that is fast enough to hit assault, and punchy enough to wreck stuff up in the first round-making the upgrade a "kill confirmed" kind of thing.
So, nearly no unit in the codex wants that upgrade. maybe warp talons-but who runs warp talons?

And autocannons are awesome.


Seeing your unit pool will help giving you advice, but seeing your list, I'd say switch over to KDK. you are playing khorne anyway.
Its still a khorne army, and completely legal using your units, you just need to drop the AoBF and give everyone MoK (at the expense of VotLW, and lord can get an axe of khorne)
The blood tithe will make losing dump units like cultists halfway beneficial (run them in minimal groups though, more units destroyed-more blood tithe) with the bonus powers it gives you, and optionally even allow you to spawn reinforcement deamons.