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 jah-joshua wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Because AoS doesn't get to piggy back off the success of WHFB's fluff after having just destroyed it all.

if you want to be bitter about it, that's your choice...
i would rather enjoy it...

like i said, i'm not married to fiction...
WHFB fluff has only been destroyed if you let it be...
i know my books didn't spontaneously combust on the 11th of July...
it's all just a lot of make believe, so why get so upset about it???

i enjoyed the Star Wars prequels, even though i grew up with the original trilogy...
i enjoyed Peter Jackson's LotR and Hobbit, even though they weren't the same as the books...
as long as something is visually amazing, like films or models, i am cool with it...

for me, AoS stands on it's own as a continuation of the Warhammer universe...

cheers
jah

It's not really a case of anyone 'wanting to be bitter'. Somebody stopped making something we like - background and fiction set in the Warhammer universe - and replaced it with something we don't like - a high-fantasy ALWAYS-WAR-ALL-THE-TIME setting with little subtlety or fleshed - out detail that feels like it was designed by committee.

That's how it is for the fluff nuts, anyway. The people drawn in by Warhammer rules have a whole different kettle of fish to fry, if I can treat analogies like GW treats synonyms for blood and storms.

I'm not angry, just disappointed :p Yes, I know they can't take my copy of Skarsnik or my Arachnarok model away, but I won't be getting more of that. It's the lost potential that's kinda sad. That's thirty years of background that they won't be building on any more, and they said goodbye to it by blowing it up. I dunno, maybe this would have rankled less if they just let it be and made Age of Sigmar its own thing?

 argonak wrote:

The Book of Mormon claims to be a continuation of the New Testament, but that doesn't mean its automatically accepted.

You, Sir. You WIN.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spinner wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Because AoS doesn't get to piggy back off the success of WHFB's fluff after having just destroyed it all.

Derp

It's not really a case of anyone 'wanting to be bitter'. Somebody stopped making something we like - background and fiction set in the Warhammer universe - and replaced it with something we don't like - a high-fantasy ALWAYS-WAR-ALL-THE-TIME setting with little subtlety or fleshed - out detail that feels like it was designed by committee.

That's how it is for the fluff nuts, anyway. The people drawn in by Warhammer rules have a whole different kettle of fish to fry, if I can treat analogies like GW treats synonyms for blood and storms.

I'm not angry, just disappointed :p Yes, I know they can't take my copy of Skarsnik or my Arachnarok model away, but I won't be getting more of that. It's the lost potential that's kinda sad. That's thirty years of background that they won't be building on any more, and they said goodbye to it by blowing it up. I dunno, maybe this would have rankled less if they just let it be and made Age of Sigmar its own thing?

Very well put.

I feel AoS would've had a MUCH better reception if it still kept the original fluff going on. And heck, they could even keep the End Times as part of the fluff (Do note this is said by a staunch HE player).
The End Times, properly used, could've been the breath of fresh air to the stalemate that was going on in the Old world. Sure, kill off some characters but keep the world (mostly) intact, give both sides a costly draw, so you can rework from there.
You'd have loads of potential for narrative campaign books anyway with (for example):
-the reforming of the Empire/Bretonnia,
- the inner fighting of the Skaven/Elves,
- a great War of Reclamation for the Dwarf Holds, etc.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Warhammer Fantasy


Age of Sigmar

Why not put pictures of actual age of sigmar games instead of promo pics?

From beasts of war:



From creative twilight:



I also think AoS is tripe (that's why our group is still playing 8th edition, and we're dipping our toe at KoW), but at least let's have a honest discussion.

jouso wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Warhammer Fantasy


Age of Sigmar

Why not put pictures of actual age of sigmar games instead of promo pics?

From beasts of war:



From creative twilight:



I also think AoS is tripe (that's why our group is still playing 8th edition, and we're dipping our toe at KoW), but at least let's have a honest discussion.

Not even sure what point you're trying to make here, as a) you ignore the promo WFB picture you quoted, and b) those pictures were originally posted to point out AoS looks more like WMH than WFB.

i agree, GW could have gone in a few different directions...
they chose the most extreme and dramatic option...
they pissed a lot of people off...
all i'm saying is that, even as a 30 year veteran fluff bunny, i'm fine with it...
as far as i'm concerned, the old fluff is now just the setting of a different Age, and is just as valid...
i'm not going to get any less enjoyment out of the Nagash Time of Legends novels, or Mallus Darkblade's stories, or the Gotrek and Felix books, than i am the Realm Gate Wars...

i can still paint my old minis, and i like a lot of the new ones, so i don't see any lost potential...
i've already been through five "generations" of major changes to GW minis from 1985 to today...
the first Slaan are nowhere near the same minis as we have today...
as much as i loved those little Aztec frogs (i still have them in my collection), the latest plastic Dinos are pretty damn impressive minis, and miles ahead of the original Lizardmen sculpts...
the quality and appeal of the majority of the Stormcast Eternals and the Bloodbound sculpts have me very interested in seeing what the studio has in store for the other races...

cheers
jah

I am talking about apples and you reply about potatoes so... I really don't know what to say to that.

But answer me these two very, very simple questions that will reflect how the three games can be immediately recognized on the tabletop (if you can, as I've seen my previous fluff-related questions posed to you remain unanswered - why wonder why?)

- Which of these three games requires the use of square bases/movement trays: AoS, WHFB or WMH?
- Which of these three games are (supposedly) low scale, low model count fantasy skirmish games: AoS, WHFB or WMH?

RoperPG wrote:

Not even sure what point you're trying to make here, as a) you ignore the promo WFB picture you quoted, and b) those pictures were originally posted to point out AoS looks more like WMH than WFB.

My point is AoS is a game that incorporates and feeds on WHFB lore, minis and general fluff.

Don't like the rules? That's ok, don't play it (that's what I do) but to deny the continuity with WHFB is intellectually dishonest.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


But answer me these two very, very simple questions that will reflect how the three games can be immediately recognized on the tabletop (if you can, as I've seen my previous fluff-related questions posed to you remain unanswered - why wonder why?)

- Which of these three games requires the use of square bases/movement trays: AoS, WHFB or WMH?
- Which of these three games are (supposedly) low scale, low model count fantasy skirmish games: AoS, WHFB or WMH?

I'm talking about fluff, you're talking about rules.

My very first point on this thread:

Since we're talking about fluff. AoS fluff is a continuation of WHFB. Nothing stops you from playing Old world or End times games with AoS rules. Hell there are even rules for characters that were dead centuries before proper AoS fluff started.

You want to talk rules, I'm OK with another round of AoS bashing

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
But answer me these two very, very simple questions that will reflect how the three games can be immediately recognized on the tabletop (if you can, as I've seen my previous fluff-related questions posed to you remain unanswered - I wonder why?)

jouso wrote:
I'm talking about fluff, you're talking about rules.

I'll just leave this right here. And do understand that I was talking about how the games LOOK on the tabletop, as the images I posted were posted in answer to this specific point made by Mongoose Matt:

MongooseMatt wrote:
Things have moved on, I grant you, but it is still Warhammer. No one is going to be mistaking it for Warmachine

So... where am I talking about rules again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me see if I can put this really clearly.

WHFB - 8th or (whatever) Ed rules, Old World Setting and fluff. Grimdark, war-as-necessary-evil setting where the horrors of armed conflict are in your face.
AoS - AoS Rules, AoS setting and fluff. War-is-fun-and-cool setting where where the horrors of armed conflict are... pretty much ignored. Van Halen!

GW themselves have stressed that AoS and WHFB are not the same thing.

But hey, if you want to use the vague, VAGUE, continuity that GW just tossed in half assedly to believe that AoS and WHFB are the same game fluf-fwise... more power to you, I guess.

I don't think AOS same as WHFB, just a squeal, much like Warcraft2>Warcraft3,

MongooseMatt wrote:

AoS - AoS Rules, AoS setting and fluff. War-is-fun-and-cool setting where where the horrors of armed conflict are... pretty much ignored. Van Halen!

And what the hell you talking about? "War-is-fun-and-cool setting" have you ever read any fluff material about AOS?

Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

Meowstalker wrote:
I don't think AOS same as WHFB, just a squeal, much like Warcraft2>Warcraft3,

MongooseMatt wrote:

AoS - AoS Rules, AoS setting and fluff. War-is-fun-and-cool setting where where the horrors of armed conflict are... pretty much ignored. Van Halen!

And what the hell you talking about? "War-is-fun-and-cool setting" have you ever read any fluff material about AOS?

Actually I have read a bit. Enough for me to understand that this setting (imo, anyway, so ymmv) can be pretty much summed up as "Rule of Cool cranked up to eleven" or "HEY KIDS LOOK, SHINY TOYS!".
There is no real focus on suffering and loss, on the horrible truth of war - the waste of life. Do the sigmarines die? No no, sorry, because the apothe-errr... relictor just picks up their genes-errr... soul so it can be reforged. Oh they become a little less emotional, boohoo. Dying? Ain't nobody got time for that.

Holy gak, did Nagash just die by Archaon's hand? Lol nope.

Heck, even Sigmar just ignores his subjects when rushes out to get himself some payback - in the middle of a battle. And his reaction when he realizes he kinda got his priorities switched can be compared to when one is pondering if one has left the gas on or not and needs to go check.

Where's the common people? Wait... who are those? I can only see sigmarines and bloodzerkers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

Exactly.

And it's not because it's "new" and doesn't have a lot of background to it. I mean, how many "background" books have been released already for AoS? It's just because it's meant to be this way. It's meant to be the opposite of WHFB's lore. It's meant to be larger than life.

Perhaps a bit too large.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There is no real focus on suffering and loss

There are city-state independent from Chaos and Azyr, they are suffering real loss.

Do the sigmarines die?

Yes, they die and cannot be resurrect.

Ok, I think that you really read a bit.

Meowstalker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.

If you wanna go that way, you're saying nothing but "You're wrong". Back it up. Go get that background book and refute his points on
:
Where the food comes from?
What is the culture like?
Economics?
Society?
Countries?

Wait... A wizard did it, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Meowstalker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There is no real focus on suffering and loss

There are city-state independent from Chaos and Azyr, they are suffering real loss.

Do the sigmarines die?

Yes, they die and cannot be resurrect.

Ok, I think that you really read a bit.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/What's-New-Today-from-the-White-Dwarf-Team/2015/07/01/Warriors-of-the-storm says:

"Also in the starter set is a Lord-Relictor. These sinister figures safeguard the souls of the Stormcast Eternals and ensure that when they ‘die’ their souls are kept from the underworlds."

Notice the ' ' there?

Also:

"Even upon death the Stormcast Eternals cannot escape their righteous purpose. A slain Eternal is born anew and sent back into the fray once more. This reforging, however, changes a warrior in strange ways. The Lord-Relictors, heroes from the Realm of Shyish, hold a mysterious power over the clutches of death, that can rouse the Stormcast from death."

That's on White Dwarf Issue 75.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

There's nothing internally inconsistent about it. You have themed magical realms where people live, but we haven't seen hardly any of them yet. We have Stormcast, who don't need to eat and live to fight. We have Bloodbound, who are cannibals. We have Nurgle followers, who are also cannibals. We have Alarielle, who is a god, and her forest creatures, who are magical and/or trees. We have only seen one instance of "normal" people, and they were starving and constantly hunted by Bloodbound. We have seen the remnants of an abandoned Dwarven kingdom but no actual dwarves. So none of what you are asking for has been shown. Which does not mean that it doesn't exist.

 Mymearan wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

There's nothing internally inconsistent about it. You have themed magical realms where people live, but we haven't seen hardly any of them yet. We have Stormcast, who don't need to eat and live to fight. We have Bloodbound, who are cannibals. We have Nurgle followers, who are also cannibals. We have Alarielle, who is a god, and her forest creatures, who are magical and/or trees. We have only seen one instance of "normal" people, and they were starving and constantly hunted by Bloodbound. We have seen the remnants of an abandoned Dwarven kingdom but no actual dwarves. So none of what you are asking for has been shown. Which does not mean that it doesn't exist.

So, without disrespect towards what you just posted (as it is all correct), so far the fluff backing up the culture, economics, food, etc, at the moment can be (basically) condensed into "a wizard did it" and cannibalism.

True enough that there's still a lot to flesh out, but the job so far has been so poorly done and so over the top that's it's hard not to find it shallow and way too incomplete when comparing it to a more "realistic"(?) setting like WHFB's.

When starting a new universe I'm not surprised they began with a very macro view. We've got all the time in the world to get into the micro with individual army books/fluff books/Black Library.

I'm looking forward to men/elves/dwarves getting released, as that will do a lot to fill in our view.

Stormcast have a lot of hints of being deeper than they first appear too. I get a very fascist vibe, and I wouldn't be surprised (or I would create my own) to have "order" civilizations who do not support them.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Meowstalker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.

If you wanna go that way, you're saying nothing but "You're wrong". Back it up. Go get that background book and refute his points on
:
Where the food comes from?
What is the culture like?
Economics?
Society?
Countries?

Wait... A wizard did it, right?

I'm not going to explain every point, it is because you didn't read any "bit"and always twisting other comments into your word. You know that you are toxic and annoying, right?

BTW, there are wizards building fortress.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Meowstalker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There is no real focus on suffering and loss

There are city-state independent from Chaos and Azyr, they are suffering real loss.

Do the sigmarines die?

Yes, they die and cannot be resurrect.

Ok, I think that you really read a bit.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/What's-New-Today-from-the-White-Dwarf-Team/2015/07/01/Warriors-of-the-storm says:

"Also in the starter set is a Lord-Relictor. These sinister figures safeguard the souls of the Stormcast Eternals and ensure that when they ‘die’ their souls are kept from the underworlds."

Notice the ' ' there?

Also:

"Even upon death the Stormcast Eternals cannot escape their righteous purpose. A slain Eternal is born anew and sent back into the fray once more. This reforging, however, changes a warrior in strange ways. The Lord-Relictors, heroes from the Realm of Shyish, hold a mysterious power over the clutches of death, that can rouse the Stormcast from death."

That's on White Dwarf Issue 75.

So basically this thread is just about people upset and hirt what they did with warhammer fantasy. Impretty sure we could go thru every other game pick flaws and find some type of garbage. I love aos personally. I honestly thought kow was an old warhammer game and the models were just old. This thread is pointless because its based of opinions.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Spoiler:

Meowstalker wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Meowstalker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.

If you wanna go that way, you're saying nothing but "You're wrong". Back it up. Go get that background book and refute his points on
:
Where the food comes from?
What is the culture like?
Economics?
Society?
Countries?

Wait... A wizard did it, right?

I'm not going to explain every point, it is because you didn't read any "bit"and always twisting other comments into your word. You know that you are toxic and annoying, right?

BTW, there are wizards building fortress.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Meowstalker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There is no real focus on suffering and loss

There are city-state independent from Chaos and Azyr, they are suffering real loss.

Do the sigmarines die?

Yes, they die and cannot be resurrect.

Ok, I think that you really read a bit.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/What's-New-Today-from-the-White-Dwarf-Team/2015/07/01/Warriors-of-the-storm says:

"Also in the starter set is a Lord-Relictor. These sinister figures safeguard the souls of the Stormcast Eternals and ensure that when they ‘die’ their souls are kept from the underworlds."

Notice the ' ' there?

Also:

"Even upon death the Stormcast Eternals cannot escape their righteous purpose. A slain Eternal is born anew and sent back into the fray once more. This reforging, however, changes a warrior in strange ways. The Lord-Relictors, heroes from the Realm of Shyish, hold a mysterious power over the clutches of death, that can rouse the Stormcast from death."

That's on White Dwarf Issue 75.

Jacotus Goldenmane, decapitated and cannot be resurrected. And how to kill a sigmarine? Read it yourself, "a bit enough to", ha.

Who is Jacotus Goldenmane? First I've heard of a Sigmarine actually dying.

GW made a lot of missteps with AoS, and not explaining how the world's work is one of them. You can be vague and leave blank space and so forth, but it does feel shallow if you don't talk about the ordinary people or places beyond a mention of a name and a big battle that was was fought there.

On top of that, you've still got people waiting to find out what their factions are like. Going back earlier in the thread, I know what an orc is, I know what an ork is, but I have no clue what an orruk is except that sometimes they can be turned into a Stormcast, at which point they are no longer an orruk at all. The aelf players have no idea what's happened to their faction, the duardin players are stuck wondering whether their slayers have to be greedy mercenaries now...

As opposed to KoW, which tells you everything you need about the major factions in the rulebook and puts up blurbs in the free rules! Bam! Back on topic!

Meowstalker wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Spoiler:

Meowstalker wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Meowstalker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.

If you wanna go that way, you're saying nothing but "You're wrong". Back it up. Go get that background book and refute his points on
:
Where the food comes from?
What is the culture like?
Economics?
Society?
Countries?

Wait... A wizard did it, right?

I'm not going to explain every point, it is because you didn't read any "bit"and always twisting other comments into your word. You know that you are toxic and annoying, right?

BTW, there are wizards building fortress.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Meowstalker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Fluff wise, AOS doesn't make much sense. It doesn't feel real. There's no logic to how the worlds work. Where does the food come from? What is the culture like? Economics? Society? Countries? Anything?
The Old World made a lot more sense and felt real. Mostly because it was based loosely on history.
This new world feels shallow and not thought out at all.

So? You said nothing but "new world feels shallow".

Actually, most "point" you asked, have already mention in different AoS book, just not as rich as 30 years old and based on history "Old World". You feel shallow, because you invest no time in the AoS fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There is no real focus on suffering and loss

There are city-state independent from Chaos and Azyr, they are suffering real loss.

Do the sigmarines die?

Yes, they die and cannot be resurrect.

Ok, I think that you really read a bit.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/What's-New-Today-from-the-White-Dwarf-Team/2015/07/01/Warriors-of-the-storm says:

"Also in the starter set is a Lord-Relictor. These sinister figures safeguard the souls of the Stormcast Eternals and ensure that when they ‘die’ their souls are kept from the underworlds."

Notice the ' ' there?

Also:

"Even upon death the Stormcast Eternals cannot escape their righteous purpose. A slain Eternal is born anew and sent back into the fray once more. This reforging, however, changes a warrior in strange ways. The Lord-Relictors, heroes from the Realm of Shyish, hold a mysterious power over the clutches of death, that can rouse the Stormcast from death."

That's on White Dwarf Issue 75.

Jacotus Goldenmane, decapitated and cannot be resurrected. And how to kill a sigmarine? Read it yourself, "a bit enough to", ha.

 Spinner wrote:
Who is Jacotus Goldenmane? First I've heard of a Sigmarine actually dying.

Yea, he is the 1st named Lord-Celestant got killed and cannot be resurrected.

 Spinner wrote:
GW made a lot of missteps with AoS, and not explaining how the world's work is one of them. You can be vague and leave blank space and so forth, but it does feel shallow if you don't talk about the ordinary people or places beyond a mention of a name and a big battle that was was fought there.

On top of that, you've still got people waiting to find out what their factions are like. Going back earlier in the thread, I know what an orc is, I know what an ork is, but I have no clue what an orruk is except that sometimes they can be turned into a Stormcast, at which point they are no longer an orruk at all. The aelf players have no idea what's happened to their faction, the duardin players are stuck wondering whether their slayers have to be greedy mercenaries now...

As opposed to KoW, which tells you everything you need about the major factions in the rulebook and puts up blurbs in the free rules! Bam! Back on topic!

I do agree AoS fluff maybe too vague, and not as rich as The Old World. However, AoS fluff still fun to read, every book give a little piece if lore about the realm and how it work.

AoS *is* a continuation of the WFB background, because that's what GW have said it is, and they kinda own it...
Whether you like it or not is down to subjective, not objective points.
Whether you prefer AoS fluff to WFB fluff to KoW fluff is similarly inarguable.
Whether the fluff has any bearing on whether you wish to play whatever game is also your choice.
Might be an idea to take the fluff v fluff discussion into a separate thread.

Who is Jacotus Goldenmane? First I've heard of a Sigmarine actually dying.

A lord Celestant. He is killed in the 2nd novel by the khorne warlord Khuul. Khuul cuts his head off with his axe that opens a rift up to the realm of chaos, and Goldenmane's spirit is sucked through that rift, preventing resurrection.

RoperPG wrote:
AoS *is* a continuation of the WFB background, because that's what GW have said it is, and they kinda own it...
Whether you like it or not is down to subjective, not objective points.
Whether you prefer AoS fluff to WFB fluff to KoW fluff is similarly inarguable.
Whether the fluff has any bearing on whether you wish to play whatever game is also your choice.
Might be an idea to take the fluff v fluff discussion into a separate thread.

I'm an Alien fan. We're used to disowning official continuity.

You're right, though - there's probably a better place for this.

Thanks for the explanation on Goldenmane, guys. Interesting - I suppose there's a seed of a decent plot in there. Perhaps the Stormcast shall know fear if they realize the only way to kill them is also basically the worst fate they can suffer.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
But answer me these two very, very simple questions that will reflect how the three games can be immediately recognized on the tabletop (if you can, as I've seen my previous fluff-related questions posed to you remain unanswered - I wonder why?)

jouso wrote:
I'm talking about fluff, you're talking about rules.

I'll just leave this right here. And do understand that I was talking about how the games LOOK on the tabletop, as the images I posted were posted in answer to this specific point made by Mongoose Matt:

How can you say that? I posted two pictures of actual AoS games from two different podcasts.

I can see dwarves fighting elves (on square bases, btw, not that it matters). On another one I see brets fighting beastmen. Same minis, same world as in WHFB, different rules.

Regarding fluff who cares what happened post end times? The game gives you the tools to play pre, during and post end times.

You can play sigmarines against khornebloodgorecrushers or Nagash taking on the combined armies of the Elves and men or a desperate alliance of Dwarves and men holding the push of waagh Gorbad.

The fluff is there. The rules are there. At any point GW may decide to launch campaign books based on the old world and it will still be Warhammer. You know what? Because they own warhammer and they can take the storyline wherever they want to.

According to your rationale flames of war is no longer a WW2 game because they're releasing Cold war minis and rules now. Hell they haven't released anything MW since v2 and guess what, I still consider MW a valid FoW timeline.

jouso wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
But answer me these two very, very simple questions that will reflect how the three games can be immediately recognized on the tabletop (if you can, as I've seen my previous fluff-related questions posed to you remain unanswered - I wonder why?)

jouso wrote:
I'm talking about fluff, you're talking about rules.

I'll just leave this right here. And do understand that I was talking about how the games LOOK on the tabletop, as the images I posted were posted in answer to this specific point made by Mongoose Matt:

How can you say that? I posted two pictures of actual AoS games from two different podcasts.

I can see dwarves fighting elves (on square bases, btw, not that it matters). On another one I see brets fighting beastmen. Same minis, same world as in WHFB, different rules.

Regarding fluff who cares what happened post end times? The game gives you the tools to play pre, during and post end times.

You can play sigmarines against khornebloodgorecrushers or Nagash taking on the combined armies of the Elves and men or a desperate alliance of Dwarves and men holding the push of waagh Gorbad.

The fluff is there. The rules are there. At any point GW may decide to launch campaign books based on the old world and it will still be Warhammer. You know what? Because they own warhammer and they can take the storyline wherever they want to.

According to your rationale flames of war is no longer a WW2 game because they're releasing Cold war minis and rules now. Hell they haven't released anything MW since v2 and guess what, I still consider MW a valid FoW timeline.

You do get he posted the pic he did because they are all promo pics and not game play photo for a reason right?

TrollSlayerThorak'Khun'Na wrote:
When starting a new universe I'm not surprised they began with a very macro view. We've got all the time in the world to get into the micro with individual army books/fluff books/Black Library.

Personally I think it is the dumbest thing they could have done in regards to fluff short of not including any.

When releasing a new game with a new setting the very first thing you should be trying to do is give people an overview of the setting to draw them in. Instead, as another poster pointed out, you have people like me disinterested because I have no idea if my dark elves exist anymore, all I know is that they are being sold as a force of order, and that worries me.

 jonolikespie wrote:

TrollSlayerThorak'Khun'Na wrote:
When starting a new universe I'm not surprised they began with a very macro view. We've got all the time in the world to get into the micro with individual army books/fluff books/Black Library.

Personally I think it is the dumbest thing they could have done in regards to fluff short of not including any.

When releasing a new game with a new setting the very first thing you should be trying to do is give people an overview of the setting to draw them in. Instead, as another poster pointed out, you have people like me disinterested because I have no idea if my dark elves exist anymore, all I know is that they are being sold as a force of order, and that worries me.

Did you read the end times? How long has kow been out