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 Yaraton wrote:
I just realized that EC, DG and WE have pre-Heresy symbols on their dice and AL has the post-Heresy symbol. What's up with that?

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

SERIOUSLY! Ugh. I mean, yay.... World Eaters. I like to see that. But where is House Vyronii!? COME ON FORGE WORLD! Why am I waiting years for these!

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
For anybody ordering the dice just be wary that the initial batch that were sold at Warhammer fest had some quality control issues, my Alpha Legion ones certainly did. Hopefully they are all sorted now.

This is a 2 supposedly

Sure that's not by design? They're Alpha Legion dice after all...

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

Durning the heresy then, from quite early on. They used both, and they brought it in pretty quickly. They had it by Istvaan V at least. But I'm pretty sure they did have it before too. In Extermination it says the Alpha/Omega symbol was 'used throughout the early great crusade, later almost entirely replaced by the Hydra symbol'. That implies it was replaced during the late great crusade.

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

"Legion" begs to differ.

It had nothing to do with being a decorative motif; it was used as an identifier by the Alpha Legion for its agents, safe houses, and other items associated with their operations.

 edbradders wrote:
Anyone know what those squiggly symbols are in the middle of the world eaters transfer sheet? Can't make them out

Pretty sure that they're kill tally markings.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
For anybody ordering the dice just be wary that the initial batch that were sold at Warhammer fest had some quality control issues, my Alpha Legion ones certainly did. Hopefully they are all sorted now.

This is a 2 supposedly

That's probably just a TS die that's undergoing the flesh change.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

"Legion" begs to differ.

It had nothing to do with being a decorative motif; it was used as an identifier by the Alpha Legion for its agents, safe houses, and other items associated with their operations.

At least, that is what they want you to think.

Or is it.

OR IS IT!?

Damn Alpha Legion.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

Durning the heresy then, from quite early on. They used both, and they brought it in pretty quickly. They had it by Istvaan V at least. But I'm pretty sure they did have it before too. In Extermination it says the Alpha/Omega symbol was 'used throughout the early great crusade, later almost entirely replaced by the Hydra symbol'. That implies it was replaced during the late great crusade.

So my initial post that Alpha Legion didn't use the Hydra symbol as a Legion symbol stands correct and you are just wasting my time with your I-know-it-all posts? I thought so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

"Legion" begs to differ.

It had nothing to do with being a decorative motif; it was used as an identifier by the Alpha Legion for its agents, safe houses, and other items associated with their operations.

Point any quote from the same book where it specifically says that Alpha Legion was using the Hydra symbol as it's all-legion symbol.

NERD FIGHT!

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

Durning the heresy then, from quite early on. They used both, and they brought it in pretty quickly. They had it by Istvaan V at least. But I'm pretty sure they did have it before too. In Extermination it says the Alpha/Omega symbol was 'used throughout the early great crusade, later almost entirely replaced by the Hydra symbol'. That implies it was replaced during the late great crusade.

So my initial post that Alpha Legion didn't use the Hydra symbol as a Legion symbol stands correct and you are just wasting my time with your I-know-it-all posts? I thought so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

"Legion" begs to differ.

It had nothing to do with being a decorative motif; it was used as an identifier by the Alpha Legion for its agents, safe houses, and other items associated with their operations.

Point any quote from the same book where it specifically says that Alpha Legion was using the Hydra symbol as it's all-legion symbol.

By the late great crusade, the original Alpha-Omega legion symbol had been almost entirely replaced by the hydra symbol, is what the quote from Extermination says. I'm not sure how that means your statement that it wasn't the legion symbol during the heresy is correct, when it says the opposite? All of the Alpha Legion marines in extermination have the hydra symbol instead of the alpha-omega one, except for the XXth legion marine from earlier in the crusade. It shows a marine from Istvaan V and says 'including the Learnean Hydra legion icon' when talking about the heraldry he wore. If you're saying it wasn't the legion symbol because not all the legion wore it, then the AL didn't have a legion symbol, because the heraldry and even colours they wore was always different to sow confusion in the enemy (and allies).

I'll be a know it all if you're gonna call me one.

I don't really think this is something worth having an argument about.

Thanks.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

Durning the heresy then, from quite early on. They used both, and they brought it in pretty quickly. They had it by Istvaan V at least. But I'm pretty sure they did have it before too. In Extermination it says the Alpha/Omega symbol was 'used throughout the early great crusade, later almost entirely replaced by the Hydra symbol'. That implies it was replaced during the late great crusade.

So my initial post that Alpha Legion didn't use the Hydra symbol as a Legion symbol stands correct and you are just wasting my time with your I-know-it-all posts? I thought so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

The Alpha Legion used the Hydra symbol from very early on in the heresy if not even before. They used both throughout.

Ahh, no. Hydra doesn't come up as an Alpha Legion symbol before Heresy, only as a decorative motive.

"Legion" begs to differ.

It had nothing to do with being a decorative motif; it was used as an identifier by the Alpha Legion for its agents, safe houses, and other items associated with their operations.

Point any quote from the same book where it specifically says that Alpha Legion was using the Hydra symbol as it's all-legion symbol.

By the late great crusade, the original Alpha-Omega legion symbol had been almost entirely replaced by the hydra symbol, is what the quote from Extermination says. I'm not sure how that means your statement that it wasn't the legion symbol during the heresy is correct, when it says the opposite? All of the Alpha Legion marines in extermination have the hydra symbol instead of the alpha-omega one, except for the XXth legion marine from earlier in the crusade. It shows a marine from Istvaan V and says 'including the Learnean Hydra legion icon' when talking about the heraldry he wore. If you're saying it wasn't the legion symbol because not all the legion wore it, then the AL didn't have a legion symbol, because the heraldry and even colours they wore was always different to sow confusion in the enemy (and allies).

I'll be a know it all if you're gonna call me one.

The Hydra symbol was used before and during the Heresy as a means of distinguishing the different units withing the Legion itself, just like a good book by FW called Extermination shows. The Hydra symbol became a de-facto Legion symbol only during the 40K period.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
For anybody ordering the dice just be wary that the initial batch that were sold at Warhammer fest had some quality control issues, my Alpha Legion ones certainly did. Hopefully they are all sorted now.

This is a 2 supposedly

Spoiler:

And the die on the right, perhaps it is not very clear, has the hydra symbol sunken in the middle

Well that's unfortunate!

Hopefully they fix that.

I just want my Mechanicum transfers. And Space Wolves, but those I can't see coming out until closer to the release of the next book.

Never mind, reds8n said nope while I was typing!

Question about the Moritat: Are they all Legions or just Raven Guard?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Question about the Moritat: Are they all Legions or just Raven Guard?

All legions except Salamanders

 BrookM wrote:
Ah feth, still no red book.

I expect Alpharius to order at least a dozen of those Alpha Legion packs though.

While I'd still like a few, I really would have prefered the "A w/ chain" symbol.

But then it probably would have been the more 'modern' version with the 'Omega' oh so subtly sitting behind the "A", and I don't really like that one...

Ah crap i got a set of those alpha dice... better go check them for advantages

 BrookM wrote:

So hold on....
Alpha Legion Dice+Dynat+Saboteur= A 5+ to blow up a tank with an additional 10% bonus?
*Orders 2 sets of Alpha Legion Dice*

The dice are nice and all (except the lack of Imperial Fist dice currently...) but I would rather some interesting model or rules releases instead.

 Alpharius wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Ah feth, still no red book.

I expect Alpharius to order at least a dozen of those Alpha Legion packs though.

While I'd still like a few, I really would have prefered the "A w/ chain" symbol.

But then it probably would have been the more 'modern' version with the 'Omega' oh so subtly sitting behind the "A", and I don't really like that one...

The Alpha-Omega symbol pre-dates the reunion with the Legion's Primarch. It isn't an unsubtle hint, it is referring to them being the last Legion, but also the first Legion in terms of their prowess, a reflection of their ambition- the first and the last so to speak. The fact that the symbol is being phased out in the later Great Crusade suggests that Alpharius is actually deliberately suppressing it's use, not condoning it. Perhaps for the fact it does seem unsubtle in hindsight.

 Haighus wrote:
The dice are nice and all (except the lack of Imperial Fist dice currently...) but I would rather some interesting model or rules releases instead.

 Alpharius wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Ah feth, still no red book.

I expect Alpharius to order at least a dozen of those Alpha Legion packs though.

While I'd still like a few, I really would have prefered the "A w/ chain" symbol.

But then it probably would have been the more 'modern' version with the 'Omega' oh so subtly sitting behind the "A", and I don't really like that one...

The Alpha-Omega symbol pre-dates the reunion with the Legion's Primarch. It isn't an unsubtle hint, it is referring to them being the last Legion, but also the first Legion in terms of their prowess, a reflection of their ambition- the first and the last so to speak. The fact that the symbol is being phased out in the later Great Crusade suggests that Alpharius is actually deliberately suppressing it's use, not condoning it. Perhaps for the fact it does seem unsubtle in hindsight.

Er, I was going with the fact that the Alpha/Omega symbol is absolutely 'new' in terms of being introduced well after the original Alpha Legion background - and Legion symbol.

It has absolutely come about since the invention of Omegon!

You're kidding yourself if you think that's not a part of the new symbol!

It is new to the fluff, but it is a retcon. The symbol appears in use before the appearance of Omegon in the continuity of the Great Crusade, so whilst Omegon has probably influenced the design from FW's perspective, within the timeline of the GC and HH, the symbol has nothing to do with Omegon and is no hint of it, because it appeared before Omegon is reunited with the Alpha Legion. In fact, taking this into account, it may well be more likely that Omegon has taken his name from the symbol, along with Alpharius.

Fair point about not liking it because it is a retcon though.

 Haighus wrote:
It is new to the fluff, but it is a retcon. The symbol appears in use before the appearance of Omegon in the continuity of the Great Crusade, so whilst Omegon has probably influenced the design from FW's perspective, within the timeline of the GC and HH, the symbol has nothing to do with Omegon and is no hint of it, because it appeared before Omegon is reunited with the Alpha Legion. In fact, taking this into account, it may well be more likely that Omegon has taken his name from the symbol, along with Alpharius.

Fair point about not liking it because it is a retcon though.

I'm not so sure about that, but we can debate this elsewhere, if you like!

 Haighus wrote:
The dice are nice and all (except the lack of Imperial Fist dice currently...) but I would rather some interesting model or rules releases instead.

Yup need more Imperial Fist dice...

As for the Alpha Legion symbol, who really knows what is what or what it means? I think their Legion symbol should be a guy twirling his mustache all evil like going " neheh!"

Tell me they'll make them for all legions. I really want TS ones.

I would imagine they will - provided they sell well!

(And I'm betting that they do in fact sell well!)

I may pick up a set of Ultramarine dice, but I definitely would pick up a set of Mechanicum dice.

Solar Auxilia for me, though those guys are probably all the way at the bottom of the food chain.