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I have a few reservations about doing so. They are made out of two mini-codecies and are not a full-fledged army that is supposed to work alon and self-contained like the more established ones. Hence I find it a bit risky trying to collect an army, that isn't even a full army. Or do you think that they will be developed as time goes on to become a full-fledged faction like IG?

Cheers

I think eventually they will be one book. Too much depends on the other to play Alone. You can argue skitarii are playable solo, and you will have fun and success, but you can clearly see GW was too desperate to get them out the door to wait for cult mechanics models to be finished, so went the lazy route. Doctrines felt rushed and poorly balanced compared to the superior in my opinion cult versions. Bs 7 does you no good if first turn shroudplasm would have saved you from losing half your army to marine drop pod spam.

Basically the only time I feel like I am running a coherant army is war convocation. Take away the free wargear and no plasma overheat and you basically have what I feel their new book will be like. I bet knights will even be an option in codex, since canonically they have them.

I am excited to see if the next imperial armor book let's us use some 30 k goodies with our admech.

Go for it. AdMech has some really good solid units and troops. You can definitely make them work.

Dragoons and Vanguards are some of the best units in the game!

 Orock wrote:
I think eventually they will be one book. Too much depends on the other to play Alone. You can argue skitarii are playable solo, and you will have fun and success, but you can clearly see GW was too desperate to get them out the door to wait for cult mechanics models to be finished, so went the lazy route.

Despite the fact that Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus models have the same production dates on their sprues, right?

Totally rushed, guys!

Doctrines felt rushed and poorly balanced compared to the superior in my opinion cult versions.

Different armies are different? Doctrina Imperatives work out fairly well, and to an extent I enjoy them more than the Canticles. When I lose a unit--my Doctrina Imperatives don't potentially lose their effectiveness.

Doctrina Imperatives don't rely on you to have a significant number of units on the field to obtain the best benefit, but

Bs 7 does you no good if first turn shroudplasm would have saved you from losing half your army to marine drop pod spam.

And Shroudpsalm does you no good if Marine Drop Pod Spam went heavy on flamers/combi-flamers.

Basically the only time I feel like I am running a coherant army is war convocation. Take away the free wargear and no plasma overheat and you basically have what I feel their new book will be like. I bet knights will even be an option in codex, since canonically they have them.

Have you actually tried building an army from one book? Because it's pretty damn coherent.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I think eventually they will be one book. Too much depends on the other to play Alone. You can argue skitarii are playable solo, and you will have fun and success, but you can clearly see GW was too desperate to get them out the door to wait for cult mechanics models to be finished, so went the lazy route.

Despite the fact that Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus models have the same production dates on their sprues, right?

Totally rushed, guys!

Doctrines felt rushed and poorly balanced compared to the superior in my opinion cult versions.

Different armies are different? Doctrina Imperatives work out fairly well, and to an extent I enjoy them more than the Canticles. When I lose a unit--my Doctrina Imperatives don't potentially lose their effectiveness.

Doctrina Imperatives don't rely on you to have a significant number of units on the field to obtain the best benefit, but

Bs 7 does you no good if first turn shroudplasm would have saved you from losing half your army to marine drop pod spam.

And Shroudpsalm does you no good if Marine Drop Pod Spam went heavy on flamers/combi-flamers.

Basically the only time I feel like I am running a coherant army is war convocation. Take away the free wargear and no plasma overheat and you basically have what I feel their new book will be like. I bet knights will even be an option in codex, since canonically they have them.

Have you actually tried building an army from one book? Because it's pretty damn coherent.

Wish guy. Don't get to butt hurt that someone disagrees with corporate dicisions to an army you... Apparently REALLY REALLY love... O.o

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Spoiler:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I think eventually they will be one book. Too much depends on the other to play Alone. You can argue skitarii are playable solo, and you will have fun and success, but you can clearly see GW was too desperate to get them out the door to wait for cult mechanics models to be finished, so went the lazy route.

Despite the fact that Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus models have the same production dates on their sprues, right?

Totally rushed, guys!

Doctrines felt rushed and poorly balanced compared to the superior in my opinion cult versions.

Different armies are different? Doctrina Imperatives work out fairly well, and to an extent I enjoy them more than the Canticles. When I lose a unit--my Doctrina Imperatives don't potentially lose their effectiveness.

Doctrina Imperatives don't rely on you to have a significant number of units on the field to obtain the best benefit, but

Bs 7 does you no good if first turn shroudplasm would have saved you from losing half your army to marine drop pod spam.

And Shroudpsalm does you no good if Marine Drop Pod Spam went heavy on flamers/combi-flamers.

Basically the only time I feel like I am running a coherant army is war convocation. Take away the free wargear and no plasma overheat and you basically have what I feel their new book will be like. I bet knights will even be an option in codex, since canonically they have them.

Have you actually tried building an army from one book? Because it's pretty damn coherent.

Wish guy. Don't get to butt hurt that someone disagrees with corporate dicisions to an army you... Apparently REALLY REALLY love... O.o

He's pretty right on most spots though...


@Immersturm: But yes, ofcourse they'll get more options if they eventually get a new Dex like every other army, but that'll probably take a few years.

First, GW came out and said cult mechanics was slowed up in their estimated completion time. That's why canticles are more thoughtful than doctrines the cause the rules for the book were rushed.

Second, that's why canticles in war convocation feel so much better than if you maybe had 3 or 4 cult units as a detatchment. You are rarely down in effectiveness the first few turns. And shroudplasm might not help, but fearless would help if you are eating flamer spam. LD 10 is not a guarantee, and it could save a small unit that might hold an objective.

Third, I HAVE built lists, and while like I said skitarii can do it, cult mechanics does not have all the tools you need. There are just too many holes, which was my original complaint.

Fourth, calm down. Guy asked for feedback on the army and I gave it to him. Its an opinion board. Some are going to agree with my playdtyle, some yours. No reason to try and shut down someone's advice like I'm trying to tell a guy the best way to bathe a baby is to hold it under the water and scrub.

 Orock wrote:
First, GW came out and said cult mechanics was slowed up in their estimated completion time. That's why canticles are more thoughtful than doctrines the cause the rules for the book were rushed.

Cite a source. Because "GW" doesn't come out and say anything these days.

Second, that's why canticles in war convocation feel so much better than if you maybe had 3 or 4 cult units as a detatchment. You are rarely down in effectiveness the first few turns. And shroudplasm might not help, but fearless would help if you are eating flamer spam. LD 10 is not a guarantee, and it could save a small unit that might hold an objective.

And how exactly will you have Fearless helping you if you had Shroudpsalm on when the Drop Pods come down?

Canticles are done at the start of each of your(read: Cult Mechanicus/War Convocation player) turns.
Drop Pods come in during the enemy's turn.

So unless you're having some kind of magical free turn between the Drop Pods coming in and unloading their flamethrowing cargo...you're boned, because you had Shroudpsalm on and not Ironsoul.

Third, I HAVE built lists, and while like I said skitarii can do it, cult mechanics does not have all the tools you need. There are just too many holes, which was my original complaint.

Cult Mechanicus most certainly DOES have all the tools you need. You just can't play it like you would any other book.

Taking a CAD of 1 HQ and 2 Troops, coupled with a Cohort Cybernetica or Holy Requisitioner gives you a very distinct edge filling in some of those "just too many holes" that you spouted off about.

Fourth, calm down. Guy asked for feedback on the army and I gave it to him. Its an opinion board. Some are going to agree with my playdtyle, some yours. No reason to try and shut down someone's advice like I'm trying to tell a guy the best way to bathe a baby is to hold it under the water and scrub.

Maybe you should calm down, since I guess we're just assuming that anyone who disagrees with us is "worked up"?

You didn't "give feedback on the army"--you gave a wishlist and a bunch of whining about how Doctrina Imperatives aren't as good as Canticles despite seemingly not knowing how Canticles work and how it's clearly a huge money grabbing attempt by GW.

As it stands now? They put them as two separate books. It's not the end of the world, and quite frankly anyone who tells you that it hamstrings one or the other is probably just interested in playing "hardcore" 40k.

Shroudplasm for regular pods, fearless for flamers. Unless your opponent is being a dick and won't tell you.

also source: games workshop manager. nice guy, store is in kent Washington. feel free to call him. 253 860 2562.

unless you are going to say that source isn't "good enough" or "official" because that is a manager at a games workshop, whos life pretty much revolves around his knowledge, and what he hears from home office/outlyers.

Unless you have a source that says they did not in fact rush the books. And that they were always meant to be separate books. A book specifically with no vehicles of any kind (cult mechanicus only). I guess you can SAY that, but not many people are going to believe it, especially since around the time the rumors were leaking, they supported the rushed/split book, and most everything from those souces came true. And rumor is admech is next year, right around the time the new imperial armor tau vs mechanicus is due out. But we will have to wait to see on that.

The new tau supeheavy suit they are making sure points that direction. Since its forgeworld, and it would be for an imperial armor release. Forgeworld doesn't make stuff for the regular codex unless gw appropriates it for regular 40k like the baneblade and stompa. But even then they are always plastic and not resin.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Orock wrote:
First, GW came out and said cult mechanics was slowed up in their estimated completion time. That's why canticles are more thoughtful than doctrines the cause the rules for the book were rushed.

Cite a source. Because "GW" doesn't come out and say anything these days.

Second, that's why canticles in war convocation feel so much better than if you maybe had 3 or 4 cult units as a detatchment. You are rarely down in effectiveness the first few turns. And shroudplasm might not help, but fearless would help if you are eating flamer spam. LD 10 is not a guarantee, and it could save a small unit that might hold an objective.

And how exactly will you have Fearless helping you if you had Shroudpsalm on when the Drop Pods come down?

Canticles are done at the start of each of your(read: Cult Mechanicus/War Convocation player) turns.
Drop Pods come in during the enemy's turn.

So unless you're having some kind of magical free turn between the Drop Pods coming in and unloading their flamethrowing cargo...you're boned, because you had Shroudpsalm on and not Ironsoul.

Third, I HAVE built lists, and while like I said skitarii can do it, cult mechanics does not have all the tools you need. There are just too many holes, which was my original complaint.

Cult Mechanicus most certainly DOES have all the tools you need. You just can't play it like you would any other book.

Taking a CAD of 1 HQ and 2 Troops, coupled with a Cohort Cybernetica or Holy Requisitioner gives you a very distinct edge filling in some of those "just too many holes" that you spouted off about.

Fourth, calm down. Guy asked for feedback on the army and I gave it to him. Its an opinion board. Some are going to agree with my playdtyle, some yours. No reason to try and shut down someone's advice like I'm trying to tell a guy the best way to bathe a baby is to hold it under the water and scrub.

Maybe you should calm down, since I guess we're just assuming that anyone who disagrees with us is "worked up"?

You didn't "give feedback on the army"--you gave a wishlist and a bunch of whining about how Doctrina Imperatives aren't as good as Canticles despite seemingly not knowing how Canticles work and how it's clearly a huge money grabbing attempt by GW.

As it stands now? They put them as two separate books. It's not the end of the world, and quite frankly anyone who tells you that it hamstrings one or the other is probably just interested in playing "hardcore" 40k.

You honestly seem to be the one "whining" from a third party perspective. Quite sad.

 Orock wrote:
Shroudplasm for regular pods, fearless for flamers. Unless your opponent is being a dick and won't tell you.

Sure. But that's adding another caveat to what you were saying--nice move on the goalposts.

also source: games workshop manager. nice guy, store is in kent Washington. feel free to call him. 253 860 2562.

unless you are going to say that source isn't "good enough" or "official" because that is a manager at a games workshop, whos life pretty much revolves around his knowledge, and what he hears from home office/outlyers.

Do you really think that GW managers are high enough on the totem pole to have any kind of specific information?
Managers are, for the most part, making educated guesses or rehashing what gets posted on rumor sites.

Unless you have a source that says they did not in fact rush the books. And that they were always meant to be separate books. A book specifically with no vehicles of any kind (cult mechanicus only). I guess you can SAY that, but not many people are going to believe it, especially since around the time the rumors were leaking, they supported the rushed/split book, and most everything from those souces came true.

Nonsense. The rumors were all over the place, if you paid any kind of attention.

"Combined Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus book!"
"Skitarii with walker transports!"
"Knights in the Codex!"
"Iron Hands in the Codex!"

There's a rumor for basically anything/everything that people wishlisted.

And rumor is admech is next year, right around the time the new imperial armor tau vs mechanicus is due out. But we will have to wait to see on that.

The "rumor" was AdMech combined book at Christmas of this year.

The Imperial Armour book is purportedly due this year as well, not next year.

The new tau superheavy suit they are making sure points that direction. Since its forgeworld, and it would be for an imperial armor release. Forgeworld doesn't make stuff for the regular codex unless gw appropriates it for regular 40k like the baneblade and stompa. But even then they are always plastic and not resin.

What exactly does that have to do with anything?

"FW makes a new Tau Superheavy Suit--Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii rushed to print!" is a rather large jump.


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Pain4Pleasure wrote:

You honestly seem to be the one "whining" from a third party perspective. Quite sad.

I actually play Skitarii and AdMech and I dislike people spreading this garbage that Orock is posting.

Convocation is not the only way to play AdMech successfully.

Wait, you misunderstood what I said, and I am moving the goalposts. Then yo go on to say my source that you asked for, no more specific, wasent good enough. Hipocrite much? You brought up the flamers, I came up with the reason they are still good, and you didn't like it. Not my problem.

Also I never ever ever said convocation was the ONLY way to play it as you bolded, just that it felt like the most COMPLETE way to play them. As in one single source.


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I have ran skitarii solo successfully before cult mechanicus. They are both fun and can compete. However they really shine benefitting from both sets of rules, and mechanicus benefits from the raw number of skitarii units you have to bring in the formation. They are much greater as a whole than the sum of their parts.

 Orock wrote:
Wait, you misunderstood what I said, and I am moving the goalposts.

You stated this:

Second, that's why canticles in war convocation feel so much better than if you maybe had 3 or 4 cult units as a detatchment. You are rarely down in effectiveness the first few turns. And shroudplasm might not help, but fearless would help if you are eating flamer spam. LD 10 is not a guarantee, and it could save a small unit that might hold an objective.

You then went on to state this:

Shroudplasm for regular pods, fearless for flamers. Unless your opponent is being a dick and won't tell you.

That's moving goalposts by assuming you know exactly what will be in each wave of pod and when it will arrive.

And it still ignores the fact that is not how Canticles work. You declare them at the start of your turn, you don't get to declare them at the start of your opponent's turn.

Oh, and by the way? LD 10 is a guarantee in the Skitarii portion of your army--assuming you've set them up near your Onager Dunecrawler(or Dunecrawlers--since it's a unit of Dunecrawlers not a single one).

Then yo go on to say my source that you asked for, no more specific, wasn't good enough. Hipocrite much?

Hypocritical would be saying that your manager clearly doesn't know anything but my manager does.

I didn't say that. I said, pretty bluntly, that GW managers aren't going to have anywhere near the kind of specific information that you posted:

First, GW came out and said cult mechanics was slowed up in their estimated completion time. That's why canticles are more thoughtful than doctrines the cause the rules for the book were rushed.

"GW" didn't say that. A manager at a GW store said that.
You can trust your manager all you want, but if they're telling you things like that? I would very sincerely question that kind of statement since it's a decision that would have been done way over their heads.

You brought up the flamers, I came up with the reason they are still good, and you didn't like it. Not my problem.

Yes. I brought up flamers because you brought up the ridiculous nonsense of "first turn shroudpsalm saving half your army to marine drop pod spam".

If you're telling people that you're running Convocation and they wanted to potentially deal with Shroudpsalm on turn one? Combi Flamers, Heavy Flamers, and normal Flamers in Drop Pods are potentially showing up.

Also I never ever ever said convocation was the ONLY way to play it as you bolded, just that it felt like the most COMPLETE way to play them. As in one single source.

The word "coherent" does not equate to "complete".

I have ran skitarii solo successfully before cult mechanicus. They are both fun and can compete. However they really shine benefitting from both sets of rules, and mechanicus benefits from the raw number of skitarii units you have to bring in the formation. They are much greater as a whole than the sum of their parts.

You see this?

This is helpful, constructive criticism! Keep posting that kind of stuff and we won't have any issues.

Keep at it guys. Looks like you're only 1 or 2 more posts away from a true middle ground and the mutual respect that goes along with it.

I just started playing since a while back and I will say if your stuck on some armies they're fun cause you get 3 amries in one war convocation formation and then you can ally with another army and take a detachment, they have no physicrs but a lot of special rules so its not boring but I will say that some of they're models are ridiculously hard to build


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Basically theyre basic troops are supa op and Dominus is pretty good too


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I like the dagoons / iron stryders but they're point to $ cost is IG or Ork equivalent I think the 2 armies ballence out with cult being tons of points for one model and Skitarii being no points for a model

Hm, let me expand on my question. Is it worth looking into a pure AdMech army without allied transports? Not sure well foot sloggers will work. I know that IG will be a miserable match-up, but others may be fine, especially with an ADL.

Or is this a bad idea? I have competitive play in mind.

If you are wanting top competitive play not much in the game can stand up to skitarii in blood angels drop pods. 9 pods with five ten man vanguard squads in on turn one is devastating. War convocation with drop pod support is solid too. But yes in major tournaments all footslogging skitarii don't tend to place in top ten. Great for local events though.


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Sorry flesh tearers. Take a priest for FnP, and a mandatory scout squad, then pods filled with plasma/arc rifle dusesmen.

 Orock wrote:
If you are wanting top competitive play not much in the game can stand up to skitarii in blood angels drop pods. 9 pods with five ten man vanguard squads in on turn one is devastating. War convocation with drop pod support is solid too. But yes in major tournaments all footslogging skitarii don't tend to place in top ten. Great for local events though.


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Sorry flesh readers. Take a priest for FnP, and a mandatory scout squad, then pods filled with plasma/arc rifle dusesmen.

Flesh Readers Nice.

But yeah, I see your point. One Typhon, Stormsword or even some Wyvern are enough to ruin all those squishy little Vanguard and they do not have the numbers of IG to make up for it. Damn it, access to all the tech in the Imperium and they can not afford transports in their army...

Gotta have a few things to release with the combined book. Probably some transports, maybe just chimera or modified ones, maybe a flyer. Maybe some unique load out for mechanicum knights. Who knows. Personally I wish the rumor you needed 3+ armor to use drop pods came true. They are really abusive with tons of those. Gives em a rep Luke the eldar.