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Yeah, another Tactics question from me, I know I'm full of them, sorry about that.
Have some questions about eqipment setups for some Dark Angels HQ characters. Any feedback on these would be good.
First is my Deathwing Librarian (to be painted in the Angels of Vengeance scheme, not sure whether I want to paint him blue or which blue paint that would be), already had a topic about him here but was semi-unsure about the winning option, for now I'll probably proxy him between the two following setups:
Storm Bolter + Force Staff (the winner of the thread, but I'm uncertain about limiting a special snowflake like a Libby to fighting weak-ass chumps, even if the IG and 'nids I'll face frequently have a lot of weak-ass chumps)
Storm Bolter + Force Axe (My preference, but I'm uncertain about having him strike last without a Storm Shield and picking an option that wasn't as popular as the above)
Talking on another forum also gave me this option, which sounds AWESOME but it'll be pricey and it'll have to wait until I pick up my next DW box before I can think about trying it:
Mace of Redemption + Force Axe

Next... I lost the base for my Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven and I can't seem to find it anywhere, I might not be interested in using it now but I'd like to have the option to build it (read: glue it to the base) and paint it for if I ever DO want to so I'll need to get a new one off bitzstore or something... But I also noticed that if I pick up another Termie base, legs and back body (also maybe pauldrons), then I'll be able to make a Deathwing Company Master out of the spare parts left in my DW box after building my Knights! Handy for another DWSF HQ choice, either instead of or in addition to the above (depending on the game).
My primary thought was giving him one Lightning Claw and one Chainfist, that way he'll be equipped to utterly whomp anything he comes across! Not sure whether I'd give him the Angels of Vengeance Scheme or the vanilla Deathwing scheme, definitely have pads appropriate for the latter.
As another note, anyone know what this shoulder pad in the middle is?

Is it supposed to go on the Crux Terminatus side, or the other side? So I know whether I'd need to order a Crux Terminatus shoulder pad or not.

Lastly I had been considering an Interrogator-Chaplain on Bike. For full disclosure the seeds of the idea came from me getting angry at an argument about the Ravenwing HQ Problem but the more I thought about it the more I genuinely liked the idea (particularly if I stick him to my Ravenwing Command Squad), loadout concept was as follows:
Power Fist (from the independent option)
Lightning Claw (from Melee Weapons list, replacing the Crozius Arcanum because screw that stupid thing)
Combi-Plasma (from Ranged Weapons list, replacing the Bolt Pistol since it's not doing me any good anymore and it'll be handy for him to toss out some Plasma with his Black Knight buddies)
MAYBE an Auspex (not sure how much use he'd have for the Twin-Linked Boltgun after he's fired his one Plasma Gun shot, so it might be handy for him to use this in his shooting phase instead)
Really odd and expensive build but it seems to make him fit for wrecking anything Black Knights want to hit, besides unsureness on how that'll all add up I'm also unsure of how to model all that and get all the bits.
The lone Space Marine Bike off the GW website and leftovers from my Dark Angels Battleforce kit to Ravenwing it up are no brainers. Also pretty easy to snatch a Combi-Plasma, my thought on modelling having both a Twin-Linked Boltgun AND a Combi-Plasma was to replace exactly one of the Boltguns with the Combi-Plasma (probably by cutting off the front of the Combi and gluing it to the back of the Bike Bolter, then I might do the same in reverse to get a spare Boltgun should I ever need it!). I'm guessing Terminator Fist/Claw arms wouldn't fit on a Power Armor model, which is a shame because my Deathwing kit has a nice open-handed Power Fist (which is what I want so I can show him holding onto the handlebar and have him not look like a complete prick who's about to crash into the nearest tank because he's not steering at all) but I presume I could easily find both in the usual spots. I'm sure I'll have an Auspex somewhere if I get it but if not that'll be easy enough to get in the usual spots again. Biggest problem would be the hooded skull head, no remote clue where I'd get that outside of the actual Int-Chap model, which would be a waste.

Sorry if my ideas are nooby or stupid or anything like that, any feedback is appreciated.

librarians dont get storm shields

my company master is relic blade equipped with a storm bolter and a storm shield. its a little wonky to make appear on the model without doing some wrist mounted shield shennanigans but it makes for a good hq for dueling and grants him instant synergy with deathwing knights thanks to wall of shields. he is also equally adept at injuring tanks with low AV

 ionusx wrote:
librarians dont get storm shields

Yeah I know. :( If I had the choice I would've picked Storm Shield + Force Axe in a heartbeat and never looked back.

 ionusx wrote:
my company master is relic blade equipped with a storm bolter and a storm shield. its a little wonky to make appear on the model without doing some wrist mounted shield shennanigans but it makes for a good hq for dueling and grants him instant synergy with deathwing knights thanks to wall of shields. he is also equally adept at injuring tanks with low AV

Potentially interesting, not as choppy as my idea (particularly against vehicles or TEQs) but a lot more durable. Is it legit though? It seems like you'd have to replace the Power Sword/Relic blade to get a Storm Shield, or am I reading the rules wrong?
Also I suppose another model option would be to have him hold the sword one-handed, technically not breaking any rules because of the weird, abstract way that 40k handles Two-Handedness. Also where would I get a Relic Blade? Or is taking the Power Sword from the DW box and painting it gold good enough?

That shoulder pad is for an inquisitor. You could probably put it on a libby and say he was sent to the Deathwatch for a bit.

Dont use the standard SM bike for your int-chap. You'll kick yourself in the rear in a few years. Get a Ravenwing bike off ebay, they are cheap with dark vengeance sets out there. A popular conversion is to use the libby and the Ravenwing sergeant from Dark Vengeance and make a libby on a bike, that same RW sergeant would also make a good int-chap on a bike (converted roughly the same way, there are videos on youtube.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/40K-Dark-Vengeance-Dark-Angels-Ravenwing-Bike-Sgt-w-Chainsword-Single-Figure-/381344777323?hash=item58c9eb846b

Also, never put a relic blade on a DA character. Its 5 points more for the mace of redemption which is +1S blind,concussive and only 1 handed and AP1 vs chaos space marines.

DA Libby's can get conversion fields for 4++ invuln that causes blind when saves are made (note that blind checks dont need to be made on the unit causing blind, so the libby wont blind his own squad (they autopass))

Never put a ranged weapon on a DA char on a bike. Use the auspex instead. Much better to give the RWBK's (or RWAS gravs) -1 cover and since they are so short ranged weapons you'll almost always be in range to use it.

Power fist and LC are super expensive on an already fairly expensive char. I generally go pistol and Mace of Redemption or power sword and power axe (on any DA char except Libby, normally I leave a force staff on them.)

Hooded heads come in the DW Knights box, they dont have helmets or skull helms. The only place to get a skull with a hood is the new DA Int-chap model. It might not be a waste though, you could take one of the DK Knight hooded heads and put it on him instead of the skull helm. Or take the DK Knight hooded helm, cut the face out a little then fill it with greenstuff and model yourself a skull on it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dark-Angels-Veteran-Robed-HEAD-G-/271960707009?hash=item3f521f0fc1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/40K-Dark-Angels-Veterans-Head-Robed-Sgt-Head-Bits-/201395849578?hash=item2ee420c96a
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Dark-Angels-Interrogator-Chaplain

Again, I dont recommend using the SM bike, it looks very different and the parts dont match up between the ravenwing and SM bikes very well.

There is a kool relic blade in the Vanguard Veterans box. The Ravenwing upgrade sprue has a kool DA looking 1 handed sword that might be good enough and in the DW Knights box there is a big sword (as tall as a termy) that could be modded.


P.S. Great thread!

effreem wrote:
That shoulder pad is for an inquisitor. You could probably put it on a libby and say he was sent to the Deathwatch for a bit.

Oh right, damn, already built him... Good to keep in mind though I suppose.
Very strange thing to be on the ordinary Tactical Terminator sprue though.

effreem wrote:
Dont use the standard SM bike for your int-chap. You'll kick yourself in the rear in a few years. Get a Ravenwing bike off ebay, they are cheap with dark vengeance sets out there. A popular conversion is to use the libby and the Ravenwing sergeant from Dark Vengeance and make a libby on a bike, that same RW sergeant would also make a good int-chap on a bike (converted roughly the same way, there are videos on youtube.)

I suppose that makes sense, wouldn't he be hard to chop up though?

effreem wrote:
Also, never put a relic blade on a DA character. Its 5 points more for the mace of redemption which is +1S blind,concussive and only 1 handed and AP1 vs chaos space marines.

Got it.

effreem wrote:
DA Libby's can get conversion fields for 4++ invuln that causes blind when saves are made (note that blind checks dont need to be made on the unit causing blind, so the libby wont blind his own squad (they autopass))

Cool, but how would I model that?

effreem wrote:
Never put a ranged weapon on a DA char on a bike. Use the auspex instead. Much better to give the RWBK's (or RWAS gravs) -1 cover and since they are so short ranged weapons you'll almost always be in range to use it.

Make sense, what about when there aren't any cover saves to screw though?

effreem wrote:
Power fist and LC are super expensive on an already fairly expensive char. I generally go pistol and Mace of Redemption or power sword and power axe (on any DA char except Libby, normally I leave a force staff on them.)

Pistol/Mace sounds good but seems kinda hotly contested (Guessing Libby might want it most since he needs a Relic to get +1 Attack and it compliments the Force Axe. Speaking of, isn't sticking with the Staff limiting? Seeing a lot of love for it but it would seem to really shrink the number of thing he can be counted on to hurt, particularly in a Term squad that'll be AP3 or AP2 in melee).
Sword/Axe, doesn't sound bad but it seems like Termie CM can't have a second Power Weapon, and wouldn't I miss S8 on the Fist and Shred on the Claw?

effreem wrote:
Hooded heads come in the DW Knights box, they dont have helmets or skull helms. The only place to get a skull with a hood is the new DA Int-chap model. It might not be a waste though, you could take one of the DK Knight hooded heads and put it on him instead of the skull helm. Or take the DK Knight hooded helm, cut the face out a little then fill it with greenstuff and model yourself a skull on it.

Good ideas, but not sure I'd have the dexterity to GS a skull, or that people would accept someone not wearing a skull mask as a Chaplain (Interrogator or otherwise).

effreem wrote:
Again, I dont recommend using the SM bike, it looks very different and the parts dont match up between the ravenwing and SM bikes very well.

Strange, I thought the Ravenwing Upgrade Sprue was partially for making SM bikes into Ravenwing ones? Oh well, I got my use out of it anyway (and it was free in the Battleforce box!).

effreem wrote:
There is a kool relic blade in the Vanguard Veterans box. The Ravenwing upgrade sprue has a kool DA looking 1 handed sword that might be good enough and in the DW Knights box there is a big sword (as tall as a termy) that could be modded.

I certainly have the last one (and maybe the second? I used a Power Armor sword hand for Sableclaw, but I think there might've been a second one), so good to know! Also good to know that I'd have a use for that Termie sword, given I won't be making another Terminator Sergeant with it again for a while, if ever again at all.

effreem wrote:
P.S. Great thread!

Thank you!
Glad to hear actually, was concerned that I was flooding or being a moron again.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

effreem wrote:
Dont use the standard SM bike for your int-chap. You'll kick yourself in the rear in a few years. Get a Ravenwing bike off ebay, they are cheap with dark vengeance sets out there. A popular conversion is to use the libby and the Ravenwing sergeant from Dark Vengeance and make a libby on a bike, that same RW sergeant would also make a good int-chap on a bike (converted roughly the same way, there are videos on youtube.)

I suppose that makes sense, wouldn't he be hard to chop up though?

It's not too bad but I did need a little greenstuff to fill in between the torso and the bike but he looks fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnozkqHSKlw

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

effreem wrote:
DA Libby's can get conversion fields for 4++ invuln that causes blind when saves are made (note that blind checks dont need to be made on the unit causing blind, so the libby wont blind his own squad (they autopass))

Cool, but how would I model that?

Thats one of the wargear pieces you dont always need to model. It could be part of his backpack generator.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

effreem wrote:
Never put a ranged weapon on a DA char on a bike. Use the auspex instead. Much better to give the RWBK's (or RWAS gravs) -1 cover and since they are so short ranged weapons you'll almost always be in range to use it.

Make sense, what about when there aren't any cover saves to screw though?

Never underestimate the power of a twin linked bolter. Knocked down a hive tyrant with one yesterday. Killed him with the rest of the BK squad in assault squad after they utterly failed to plasma him down (and 1 died to gets hot while trying.)

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

effreem wrote:
Power fist and LC are super expensive on an already fairly expensive char. I generally go pistol and Mace of Redemption or power sword and power axe (on any DA char except Libby, normally I leave a force staff on them.)

Pistol/Mace sounds good but seems kinda hotly contested (Guessing Libby might want it most since he needs a Relic to get +1 Attack and it compliments the Force Axe. Speaking of, isn't sticking with the Staff limiting? Seeing a lot of love for it but it would seem to really shrink the number of thing he can be counted on to hurt, particularly in a Term squad that'll be AP3 or AP2 in melee).
Sword/Axe, doesn't sound bad but it seems like Termie CM can't have a second Power Weapon, and wouldn't I miss S8 on the Fist and Shred on the Claw?

This is one of those spots you need to choose what you want. I've found not adding too many points to characters tends to work better for me. I put the bare minimum needed stuff on there. I.E. For all libby's they get conversion fields. My Company Master gets a jump pack and mace but I dont give him the conversion field cause he already has a 4+ which is good enough. The blind isnt worth 20 points alone.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

effreem wrote:
Again, I dont recommend using the SM bike, it looks very different and the parts dont match up between the ravenwing and SM bikes very well.

Strange, I thought the Ravenwing Upgrade Sprue was partially for making SM bikes into Ravenwing ones? Oh well, I got my use out of it anyway (and it was free in the Battleforce box!).

It has the front shield but the bikes are still slightly different. IMO, the Ravenwing bikes have better detail on them but thats just me being picky.

Sorry about the long delay in replying.

effreem wrote:
It's not too bad but I did need a little greenstuff to fill in between the torso and the bike but he looks fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnozkqHSKlw

Cool, will keep that vid in mind then, thanks!

effreem wrote:
Thats one of the wargear pieces you dont always need to model. It could be part of his backpack generator.

Ah, that makes sense.

effreem wrote:
Never underestimate the power of a twin linked bolter. Knocked down a hive tyrant with one yesterday. Killed him with the rest of the BK squad in assault squad after they utterly failed to plasma him down (and 1 died to gets hot while trying.)

Fair enough! I guess I do tend to underestimate things with high/weak AP values.

effreem wrote:
This is one of those spots you need to choose what you want. I've found not adding too many points to characters tends to work better for me. I put the bare minimum needed stuff on there. I.E. For all libby's they get conversion fields. My Company Master gets a jump pack and mace but I dont give him the conversion field cause he already has a 4+ which is good enough. The blind isnt worth 20 points alone.

That makes sense. I do tend to go crazy with upgrades a bit too much.
Keeping that in mind, I'm still highly tempted with Claw/Fist for the Deathwing Company Master, if nothing else the Axe/Sword thing doesn't seem to be an option for Termies, if he has 4++ then he doesn't need a Storm Shield and if people can put it on a single wound model and have it work (one popular loadout for Vanguard Vets), I'm sure it won't be wasted on a tough multi-wound Terminator Character hiding amongst other tough Termies. But while the Chainfist is really tempting, I don't know if it would be better to save the 5 points and have the normal Power Fist. Also tempting for the Biker Chaplain for similar reason (except the FIst dilemma since he can't have a Chainfist) but he actually COULD have a Power Weapon duo, Crozius/Axe seems doable and a nice rounded option while being cheaper, though not as effective and have some concerns about modelling (it would have to be a "look ma, no hands!" pose with both weapons up in the air while Fist/Claw could be done with him holding the handlebar with his Power Fist).
Still rather stumped on the Libby, Mace of Redemption/Axe still sounds AWESOME but very, VERY expensive and everyone recommends the Force Staff but just can't see AP4 in squad that's all either AP3 or AP2, even if I will frequently face off against Guard and 'Nids.

effreem wrote:
It has the front shield but the bikes are still slightly different. IMO, the Ravenwing bikes have better detail on them but thats just me being picky.

Well damn... Does this also put the kibosh on me making the lone SM Bike into a spare Black Knight with those parts? Also thought of doing that.