Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Starting with Guard, armor-heavy and with the opportunity to use the FW fully mechanized lists on occasion. A couple of questions to start.

Leman Russ tanks, are sponsons worth it? More dakka or too many pts in one basket?

What is the best loadout for og/bullgryns?

Thanks

After enough sponsons, you could have gotten another Russ. Plus, don't rely on sponsons in general. Your main weapons should be more than enough for it's intended target. Be sure to utilize different variants properly, and either magnetize your tanks or get several different variants.

For LR tanks, the rule of thumb is if the main gun has ordnance (i.e. the LRBT and Demolisher) that sponsons are a flat out no since they are forced to snapfire and you're pretty much pissing points down the drain.

In terms of the other tanks, it depends. Vanquishers typically are best left with just a hull-mounted lascannon, whereas the exterminator and the eradicator both work pretty well with the heavy bolter sponsons since they synergize well with their main turret having the same AP. Executioners should be fairly straight forward with plasma cannon sponsons the most obvious sponson choice. Keep in mind that this is only viable if you have a way of applying preferred enemy (i.e. via Pask or the Steel Host formation) to the tank squadron containing it because otherwise it will likely glance itself to death via gets hot!

Ogryns and Bullgryns are in a tight spot this edition given that they lack the speed and transports (in-codex) typically accessible to assault units. Honestly, I feel that Ogryns are a better counter charge unit than Bullgryns since the amount of dakka they can put out is considerably better than the frag grenades the bullgryns shoot out and they can at least overwatch if they fluff up their charge. Throw in a priest in their a unit of 3-5 to get fearless and hatred as well as access to tasty battle hymns. Keep them beside your squads as a melee deterrent to fast threats like flesh hounds or trukk boyz. If your opponent wastes shots on them it works out for you since they aren't aimed on the squishy parts of your army! Just make sure they aren't out in the open though, grab cover where you can.

I never bother, dishing out a nice flat 150 is good enough for me, then again I only use the LRBT.

If you want to go the abhuman route, you can take bullgryns with slab shields to give your tanks cover/counter assault protection.

I think I can help a little, I run a Russ-tastic army with a total of 10 russes. Basically it works like this, if the main weapon of the Russ is ordnance, don't add sponsons or invest in any other weapon upgrades (ie lascannon). If the main weapon isn't ordnance then go for it. There are exceptions however depending on tank roles, heres what I think:

LRBT: These suck since the changes to vehicle damage tables and their AP3 battle cannons, other varients do their job better, if you want an all-rounder take a demolisher. If you do take a LRBT, don't bother with sponsons, standard heavy bolter/flamer will do.

Vanquisher: Initially I thought just a hull lascannon would be enough, however your enemy will close on you. I recommend hull lascannon, sponson multimeltas and a hunter killer for a bit of extra power on the first turn. I also recommend a divination psyker nearby as at BS3 they are a bit unreliable. Add camo-netting and put it behind an aegis wall for a 3+ cover save.

Demolisher: Stock are fine, however to make a truly scarey demolisher add a dozer blade, hull heavy flamer and heavy flamer sponsons. The reason for this is you will find that once the enemy get within 10 inches or so you will not want to fire that main gun (true of all pieplate russes), as the scatter makes it as likely to kill you as them. This is where the flamers come into their own, especially when you have 3. If anything, it can be a massive deterrent, and can easily clear any scary combat infantry off you most of the time.

Executioner: Add a lascannon and plasma sponsons, super destructive, but will melt itself. Worth every point.

Punisher: Heavy bolters all round and a heavy stubber for an unparalleled dakka tank. Combine with pask and all sponsons are viable. Dozer blade is a good idea.

Exterminator: Same as the punisher, not a great tank though.

Eradicator: Not used these personally, however heavy flamers, heavy bolters and plasma cannons would all work well to synergize with its anti-infantry main weapon. Dozer blade recommended.

For Russes, I like running,

Pask Punisher w/ Multimeltas + Executioner w/ Multimeltas. Gives them the flexibility to handle everything from mass infantry to AV14. 4 PE Multimelta shots and Pask's main gun are nothing to sneeze at.

I also like running a dakka squadron of 1x Exterminator w/ Bolters, 1x Eradicator w/ Bolters. This unit is cheap as dirt, and pumps out 18 HB shots, 4 TL-AC shots, and the ignores-cover Nova cannon shot per turn. And, since it's dirt cheap, it's nice to use to provide cover saves to other units.



Obviously I back this up with Wyverns because...Wyverns.

I also like Pask in a punisher, but with Plasmas, you really get a lot more mileage out of him with the plasma cannons as they can normally target stuff on T1 and continue to do so consistently, also makes target selection with the Executioner easier esp in the event that he fails to call his split-fire orders. Also, buy his squad hull las-cannons, always.

I liked the Eradicator as well, but again with plasmas, still dirt cheap for what you get in return, yes slight chance of gets-hot but really worth it. Show me any other army that can add 2x plasma cannon shots or equivalent for 30 points. Also synergizes well with the Nova cannon (same range, high STR and blast template).

I want to like the Exterminators, I really do, since they look so cool, but for the slot and the points I can never seem to justify a mere 4 TL auto cannon shots. I just... ugh, maybe if it was 8 shots TL, but 4 is just to paltry, and you can get this on normal guardsmen for a pittance.

I haven't been able to get over the new price tag of the Demolisher. I mean, granted it's a fantastic cannon, and it's really a fabulous fire-magenet esp if taken in tandem with Pask to help keep him alive, but arg, so much points :(

 Corinthius wrote:
I think I can help a little, I run a Russ-tastic army with a total of 10 russes. Basically it works like this, if the main weapon of the Russ is ordnance, don't add sponsons or invest in any other weapon upgrades (ie lascannon). If the main weapon isn't ordnance then go for it. There are exceptions however depending on tank roles, heres what I think:

LRBT: These suck since the changes to vehicle damage tables and their AP3 battle cannons, other varients do their job better, if you want an all-rounder take a demolisher. If you do take a LRBT, don't bother with sponsons, standard heavy bolter/flamer will do.

Vanquisher: Initially I thought just a hull lascannon would be enough, however your enemy will close on you. I recommend hull lascannon, sponson multimeltas and a hunter killer for a bit of extra power on the first turn. I also recommend a divination psyker nearby as at BS3 they are a bit unreliable. Add camo-netting and put it behind an aegis wall for a 3+ cover save.

Demolisher: Stock are fine, however to make a truly scarey demolisher add a dozer blade, hull heavy flamer and heavy flamer sponsons. The reason for this is you will find that once the enemy get within 10 inches or so you will not want to fire that main gun (true of all pieplate russes), as the scatter makes it as likely to kill you as them. This is where the flamers come into their own, especially when you have 3. If anything, it can be a massive deterrent, and can easily clear any scary combat infantry off you most of the time.

Executioner: Add a lascannon and plasma sponsons, super destructive, but will melt itself. Worth every point.

Punisher: Heavy bolters all round and a heavy stubber for an unparalleled dakka tank. Combine with pask and all sponsons are viable. Dozer blade is a good idea.

Exterminator: Same as the punisher, not a great tank though.

Eradicator: Not used these personally, however heavy flamers, heavy bolters and plasma cannons would all work well to synergize with its anti-infantry main weapon. Dozer blade recommended.

Off-topic -- have you considered looking at the Trojan support vehicle (FW)?? I have many tanks as well and am going to try this thing out-- it's a dedicated transport for TechPriests and it gives any Tank in 6" PREFERRED ENEMY (EVERYTHING)!! That is a Pask-like bonus every turn on a vehicle of your choosing. On top of that.. the Techpriest (while i'm sure fixing things is cool and all) has the PotMS -- a huge bonus.. fire one weapon at full BS, even after moving, at a different target... if i'm reading it right, this would allow your flamer demolisher to just run wild. Best part? It only costs 35 pts... wht do you think?

jgfield79 wrote:


Off-topic -- have you considered looking at the Trojan support vehicle (FW)?? I have many tanks as well and am going to try this thing out-- it's a dedicated transport for TechPriests and it gives any Tank in 6" PREFERRED ENEMY (EVERYTHING)!! That is a Pask-like bonus every turn on a vehicle of your choosing. On top of that.. the Techpriest (while i'm sure fixing things is cool and all) has the PotMS -- a huge bonus.. fire one weapon at full BS, even after moving, at a different target... if i'm reading it right, this would allow your flamer demolisher to just run wild. Best part? It only costs 35 pts... wht do you think?

Yeah sounds pretty decent, I've not seen the rules for it before.

I really like Eradicators - they're dirt cheap for what you get (I run mine with Heavy Bolter sponsons, which comes out to 140pts). They can be really nasty when you are facing Xenos Scum, as most of their infantry units have 4+ saves and you ignore their cover.

Thanks for the info so far, very cool. So no sponsons for ordinance weaponry tanks. Sponsons for non. Got it.

Still not sure on the Ogryns loadout, I'd like them as a counterattack weapon, perhaps lurking behind the armor or offtable as reserves to bring in to support the lines/fill gaps/protect objectives. I do like the idea of throwing in a character with them, such as a priest, something cheap to make them extra killy.

Oh 1 more thing; something a Friend of mine once told me:

Guardsmen are like bullets; you need to expend them to win battles.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Thanks for the info so far, very cool. So no sponsons for ordinance weaponry tanks. Sponsons for non. Got it.

Still not sure on the Ogryns loadout, I'd like them as a counterattack weapon, perhaps lurking behind the armor or offtable as reserves to bring in to support the lines/fill gaps/protect objectives. I do like the idea of throwing in a character with them, such as a priest, something cheap to make them extra killy.

I would do Bulgryns for that job, they're extra cover on tanks is fantastic. They're a bit on the pricey side but 3+ saves, giving our 4+ cover to the tanks behind them (3+ if you have camo cloaks, and then 2+ if it's night fighting T1) is really solid. They also hit really hard as well.

I didn't see the LR conquerer listed. Less STR battle canon, but it's FAST, not heavy. Large blast with sponsons? Yep.

Conquerors only a small blast IIRC

maceria wrote:
I didn't see the LR conquerer listed. Less STR battle canon, but it's FAST, not heavy. Large blast with sponsons? Yep.

So I played a small 1k tourney with the conquerer today, I cannot find where it state that it is a Fast vehicle, looked for it in the rules and erratas, can you point it out for me?

I know the cannon itself is Heavy not Ordinance, and it is small 3" template, S8 AP3.

Yes, small blast, but battle canon str, I was backwards. IA13 lists it as Fast.

maceria wrote:
Yes, small blast, but battle canon str, I was backwards. IA13 lists it as Fast.

oh ok, thanks, no wonder I can't find it, as I only have IA1 2nd ed.

Yeah, I'm a heretic.

 Big Mac wrote:

maceria wrote:
Yes, small blast, but battle canon str, I was backwards. IA13 lists it as Fast.

oh ok, thanks, no wonder I can't find it, as I only have IA1 2nd ed.

IA1 2e has an FAQ that updated the Conquerer's cannon