Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
We should probably worry about that over in the "TWD" thread.

The LA area should be bad enough!

Though I suppose you can get out to the desert fast enough - maybe!

Do-able. With the deserted conditions we've seen so far they could be the only people in seventy years to hit freeways without major traffic. They could be out of LA basin in under an hour. Ride up to Lake Arrowhead and live out the apocalypse resort style. Yea baby.

Ha!

I see you've had the...pleasure of driving in Southern California?

I lived there for 6 years - couldn't wait to get out towards the end.

The weather was great, but the cost of living and the population density... no thanks!

I'd imagine in TWD Universe, So-Cal would go belly up double quick!

One does not drive in Southern California. One merely parks on the freeways.

 Frazzled wrote:
With the deserted conditions we've seen so far they could be the only people in seventy years to hit freeways without major traffic. They could be out of LA basin in under an hour.

I suppose it depends on how many abandoned vehicles are on the freeways, bridges, and blocking on/offramps.

 Frazzled wrote:
Ride up to Lake Arrowhead and live out the apocalypse resort style. Yea baby.

I keep bringing up Dawn of the Dead and that's because they touched on this briefly at the end. Other people have the same idea and they're likely to bring the zombies along with them somehow.

One thing. Do we know if there was a patient zero or ground zero for this? In Dawn it was everywhere at once. In 28 Days Later and I Legend, it started at a single spot and fanned out.

 Breotan wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
With the deserted conditions we've seen so far they could be the only people in seventy years to hit freeways without major traffic. They could be out of LA basin in under an hour.

I suppose it depends on how many abandoned vehicles are on the freeways, bridges, and blocking on/offramps.

 Frazzled wrote:
Ride up to Lake Arrowhead and live out the apocalypse resort style. Yea baby.

I keep bringing up Dawn of the Dead and that's because they touched on this briefly at the end. Other people have the same idea and they're likely to bring the zombies along with them somehow.

One thing. Do we know if there was a patient zero or ground zero for this? In Dawn it was everywhere at once. In 28 Days Later and I Legend, it started at a single spot and fanned out.

TWD and FTWD seem to perpetuate the romero style of zombie apocalypse, where the cause is unknown, the Z's are slow-medium speed only (and sort of remember some old habits... sometimes.. might have a "OMG they learn moment" like in day of the dead), and its something that everyone on the planet is already infected/affected by before the first zombie appears.

So there really is no epi center or patient zero


As a Canadian, I like to think im at an advantage, 9 months of the year the Z's will freeze solid, the other 3 months, bears will probably eat them or something.

 easysauce wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
With the deserted conditions we've seen so far they could be the only people in seventy years to hit freeways without major traffic. They could be out of LA basin in under an hour.

I suppose it depends on how many abandoned vehicles are on the freeways, bridges, and blocking on/offramps.

 Frazzled wrote:
Ride up to Lake Arrowhead and live out the apocalypse resort style. Yea baby.

I keep bringing up Dawn of the Dead and that's because they touched on this briefly at the end. Other people have the same idea and they're likely to bring the zombies along with them somehow.

One thing. Do we know if there was a patient zero or ground zero for this? In Dawn it was everywhere at once. In 28 Days Later and I Legend, it started at a single spot and fanned out.

TWD and FTWD seem to perpetuate the romero style of zombie apocalypse, where the cause is unknown, the Z's are slow-medium speed only (and sort of remember some old habits... sometimes.. might have a "OMG they learn moment" like in day of the dead), and its something that everyone on the planet is already infected/affected by before the first zombie appears.

So there really is no epi center or patient zero


As a Canadian, I like to think im at an advantage, 9 months of the year the Z's will freeze solid, the other 3 months, bears will probably eat them or something.

Not to mention the sheer size of Canada means that if you avoid heavily populated metropolitan centers like Toronto and go into more spread out areas up north you won't have to deal with as many zeds in the hordes they portray to roam around in packs in the show. Moose cavalry and beaver tail-tapping detection systems mean we definitely come ahead of others in cases of the zombie apocalypse

It would have to be an everywhere at once kind of thing esp. considering that everyone on the planet is apparently infected. Also, if it was a patient zero type situation, based on what we've seen on the show, it would be virtually impossible for it to have spread internationally, since you figure that it seems to take a bit victim at most a few hours to turn, during which time their health degrades rather drastically and very visibly, and you find that they would either turn into a walker mid-flight (in which case your flight crew, sealed behind a locked door, is declaring an in-flight emergency and landing a plane full of walkers which will be met with a SWAT style response on the ground - even if they dont know what a zombie is off the bat, they'll very quickly soon find out and put down the infection) or be so sick when you landed that your first destination is going to be quarantine.

For a real life zombie scenario to work, you're either looking at a short gestation (or whatever the term is) period (would need to be short enough that it could spread faster than the response, but not short enough to prevent international spread) or a long gestation period (would need to be long enough to allow international spread, but not long enough to allow a response). In theory theres a very slim margin at either end within which this could reasonably work as a global apocalypse scenario, in practice its almost impossible.

Also important to remember that the primary method of transmission is at odds with the zombies instinctual behavior. You infect someone by biting, but you're biting them out of the desire to devour them. Meaning that successful zombies don't actually generate many (if any) new patients, because they've already killed and eaten any potential new zombies beyond the threshold of reanimation.

Chaos, we dont know much, what we do know for sure is that *everyone on earth is already affected by the zombie curse/virus/magic/whatever before zombies start to appear*

There is no gestation period as everyone is already affected so when they die they turn into Z"s.. there is no transmission of the "virus" and its not even sure it is a virus, what every "it" its, everyone already has it prior to z's appearing, hence why its actually plausible (not 100% but plausible) for it to overrun even out advanced military.

everyone is already doomed to turn into a Z when they die before the first Z appears.

Everyone already has it. People aren't turned into zombies from bites or their blood according to the writer. Rather they only turn into zombies because they happened to die. The blood and saliva causes an infection which kills the infected person, and once they die they zombify.

Now I would note that even remote areas still wind up being hit by the zombies eventually. The herds wander aimlessly. For instance in the Tv series there's a guy who's hiding out in a cabin in the middle of nowhere who's eventually taken out by some wanderers.

In reference to Canada though, that seems like a better place to stay than the US. Well if you can find the supplies. The comics establish that over the winter the zombies slow down, and over time they've become weaker. So as long as you aren't hit up by a herd you would probably be better off against the colder Canadian zombies than the US ones. =P

Oh and the Tv series establishes that the infection's world wide. The comics don't IIRC, but the series has the scientist in season 1 note it, and in a latter series some of the survivors see a group which has head up into the US from South America (but they can't understand what they're saying).

Chaos, we dont know much, what we do know for sure is that *everyone on earth is already affected by the zombie curse/virus/magic/whatever before zombies start to appear*

There is no gestation period as everyone is already affected so when they die they turn into Z"s.. there is no transmission of the "virus" and its not even sure it is a virus, what every "it" its, everyone already has it prior to z's appearing, hence why its actually plausible (not 100% but plausible) for it to overrun even out advanced military.

everyone is already doomed to turn into a Z when they die before the first Z appears.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Everyone already has it. People aren't turned into zombies from bites or their blood according to the writer. Rather they only turn into zombies because they happened to die. The blood and saliva causes an infection which kills the infected person, and once they die they zombify.

Now I would note that even remote areas still wind up being hit by the zombies eventually. The herds wander aimlessly. For instance in the Tv series there's a guy who's hiding out in a cabin in the middle of nowhere who's eventually taken out by some wanderers.

In reference to Canada though, that seems like a better place to stay than the US. Well if you can find the supplies. The comics establish that over the winter the zombies slow down, and over time they've become weaker. So as long as you aren't hit up by a herd you would probably be better off against the colder Canadian zombies than the US ones. =P

Oh and the Tv series establishes that the infection's world wide. The comics don't IIRC, but the series has the scientist in season 1 note it, and in a latter series some of the survivors see a group which has head up into the US from South America (but they can't understand what they're saying).

Yes. I am aware, but you will note I was discussing in terms of *reality*. Everyone on earth being infected with a disease that has evidently lain dormant for quite some time only to suddenly/globally/simultaneously start making people sick is not, at all, even remotely, realistic.

Also, in regards to temperatures in Canada vs the US it sounds like someone hasnt quite done their homework. Average winter temps in a large part of the US (the entire Midwest, in an area roughly bound by Colorado, Oklahoma, Idaho, Illinois, and Michigan; as well as the northeast from NY/PA/North Jersey and North) are as low as, or lower than, the average winter temperatures in the majority of Canadas most populated areas.

Which is probably the reason why the comics start up two months after the outbreak... I haven't seen this particular series though, but how they're representing it is that society at large is ignoring the issue and that the government is doing what it can to cover it up so as not to cause a panic. Nobody connected the dots together until there were herds in the streets.

IIRC the tv series proposes that it was a biological weapon, but of course that's just people throwing out there thoughts. The CDC didn't know what the hell it was, so it must have hit fast enough that nobody could pin down the route causes (and there wound up only being one actual scientist left researching it just three months into the outbreak, to our knowledge).

Ref: Winter temperatures. I'm referring to the winter represented in the comics. Now I'm not American, but I suspect that Georgia's winter's not quite as bad as Canada's. Youknow, Southern United States and all. Still bloody cold though.

Yes, it is all relative, but outside of some rare instances every third year or so, Georgia doesn't really get too 'cold' overall!

 Alpharius wrote:
Yes, it is all relative, but outside of some rare instances every third year or so, Georgia doesn't really get too 'cold' overall!

Incorrect, its only all relative in Arkansas...

Back to the TV series itself, do we know if this has been picked up for season 2 or what the actual ratings have been?

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Which is probably the reason why the comics start up two months after the outbreak... I haven't seen this particular series though, but how they're representing it is that society at large is ignoring the issue and that the government is doing what it can to cover it up so as not to cause a panic. Nobody connected the dots together until there were herds in the streets.

IIRC the tv series proposes that it was a biological weapon, but of course that's just people throwing out there thoughts. The CDC didn't know what the hell it was, so it must have hit fast enough that nobody could pin down the route causes (and there wound up only being one actual scientist left researching it just three months into the outbreak, to our knowledge).

Ref: Winter temperatures. I'm referring to the winter represented in the comics. Now I'm not American, but I suspect that Georgia's winter's not quite as bad as Canada's. Youknow, Southern United States and all. Still bloody cold though.

Oh yeah, thats not that bad, but if you go into upstate New York, Connecticut, Massachussets, and northward, and parts of Northern and Western New Jersey, into Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, the Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Colorado, parts of Utah, Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, and Oklahoma, etc. it gets really fething cold. You'd be surprised just how cold Oklahoma gets, considering its just north of Texas (roughly the same latitude as northern georgia and the carolinas actually), but the temperature can reach -30 deg F or colder, and they sometimes get hit with a foot of snow at a time, etc.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Yes, it is all relative, but outside of some rare instances every third year or so, Georgia doesn't really get too 'cold' overall!

Incorrect, its only all relative in Arkansas...

Back to the TV series itself, do we know if this has been picked up for season 2 or what the actual ratings have been?

The premiere set records for AMC, so I'm pretty sure they'll be a Season 2!

Also:

Jul 31, 2015 - AMC announced today from the Television Critics Association (TCA) Press Tour a 15-episode order for Fear the Walking Dead Season 2.

Which was before episode 1 aired!

Interesting.

Yeah, they seemed to invest in the idea that 2 seasons minimum would be needed to get the ball rolling. Considering the total episodes ordered, including the season 2, is still the same or less than a normal tv season on nbc, abc, cw, or fox.

My biggest beef with the finale tonight...

Where the hell were the perimeter defenses?

 Kanluwen wrote:
My biggest beef with the finale tonight...

Where the hell were the perimeter defenses?

Mine was, why didn't they do something more permanent about the horde in the stadium? Seriously, chains and a block of wood for each door?

 agnosto wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
My biggest beef with the finale tonight...

Where the hell were the perimeter defenses?

Mine was, why didn't they do something more permanent about the horde in the stadium? Seriously, chains and a block of wood for each door?

I kind of think they had a plan for that.

That plan was "COBALT". They pull out, the stadium gets bombed.
Hard.


In any regards, FTWD has kept my attention far far far better than TWD itself ever did. I have really enjoyed this show, because the zombies weren't just "there".
It kind of felt like the difference between the Xenomorph in "Alien" versus the Xenomorphs in "Aliens". In one movie, they're a relatively unseen threat which could be around every corner--in the other, they're always there and it's just a matter of who the body count picks for itself today.

I enjoyed the finale. As for the base perimeter defenses maybe they hadn't encountered a horde that size and didn't realize the result of the weight on the fence.

I'm looking forward to next season. They already killed of one of the family characters that was annoying me and nipped the love triangle crap in the bud so we don't have to sit thru another Shane/Rick/Lori scenario.

Plus, Travis SNAPPED!

"Travis SNAPPED!" is an understatement.

 agnosto wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
My biggest beef with the finale tonight...

Where the hell were the perimeter defenses?

Mine was, why didn't they do something more permanent about the horde in the stadium? Seriously, chains and a block of wood for each door?

The door situation seems reasonable. I mean, you have to work with what you got, though it did seem a bit light, you would think they would have done more chains, and some wood (or even steel pipe) shoring to keep those door secured. What seems unreasonable is that they wouldn't have a guard or two posted there...

As for the base perimeter defenses maybe they hadn't encountered a horde that size and didn't realize the result of the weight on the fence.

Two problems: 1. We know they had encountered a horde of that size, see also: Stadium. 2. Beyond the stadium horde, if the military is having such a hard time keeping control of the situation that they had to put a plan like 'Cobalt' into action, then presumably they must have been aware of the existence of large hordes. Except that doesnt jive with the kill counts, so *shrug*.

IMO, I thought it was a load of BS, but we already know Im jaded against the show and the premise.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I enjoyed the finale. As for the base perimeter defenses maybe they hadn't encountered a horde that size and didn't realize the result of the weight on the fence.

I'm looking forward to next season. They already killed of one of the family characters that was annoying me and nipped the love triangle crap in the bud so we don't have to sit thru another Shane/Rick/Lori scenario.

Plus, Travis SNAPPED!

The switch has flipped!



I suspect that we'll learn a lot more about Travis in season 2, including why he talked about being in so many fights. Like I've been saying, he's been TOO under control...it clearly smacks of something he's trained himself to do/be, and that suggests his base nature is perhaps quite different.

On Talking Dead last night, they talked about how Madison might have skeletons in her closet as well. What's more, the writer mentioned that fans have overlooked how a Southern drawl creeps into Madison's voice now and then. Hardwick joked about Madison saying that they should visit her brother Rick Grimes. Everyone laughed...but you HAVE to think that there must be some connection between the casts for the writer to bring it up. But as much as TV execs love their crossovers, it's hard to see how that could happen other than as a pre-apocalypse flashback.

Overall, I really enjoyed the season. I feel like the writers played with more themes in this show -- particularly those dealing with class and our relationships with our neighbors -- than what we tend to see in TWD these days. I suppose it's easier to pull that stuff off in a world that's much closer to our own. I could certainly nitpick about this or that, but in the end I thought it was entertaining, interesting and different.

Wasn't very fascinated with the finale, but I haven't been enthralled with the previous episodes either.

A boat does seem like a decent idea, but I assume they won't be the only ones. Season 2, rise of the Pirates?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Wasn't very fascinated with the finale, but I haven't been enthralled with the previous episodes either.

A boat does seem like a decent idea, but I assume they won't be the only ones. Season 2, rise of the Pirates?

Yar its the Black Pearl off the Starboard Yar!

zombie pirates...

I expect they'll find the boat already occupied, whether it be by zombies, or some other survivors who saw it sitting out there and thought itd be a good place to hang out.

I was so expecting the camera to pan to a zombie doggy paddling.

 easysauce wrote:
Chaos, we dont know much, what we do know for sure is that *everyone on earth is already affected by the zombie curse/virus/magic/whatever before zombies start to appear.

There are some exceptions. If you have some sort of survivable wound, you can get stitched up and off you go. Yet a bite from a walker will cascade and kill you within a few days at most.

@Chaos0xomega

My thoughts regarding a horde of that size has more to do with actually in the open and against chainlink fence. It's easy to think that a solidly built chain-link will stand up to a bunch of people pushing up against it but maybe they don't consider that people won't jam up like zombies? Also remember they are supposedly clear for a 6 mile radius at this point inward.

Additionally it could be down to units at this point. Maybe there is no higher communication. You did hear the soldiers on the tower discussing there was no higher command right?

They throw out little things to at least ease the sense of disbelief for their audience. So you can think "Good, that got at least a nod". If you choose to ignore that and fail to suspend your sense of disbelief it's probably not the show for you. I mean, it's a show about zombies

@Gorgon

I'm looking forward to learning more about Madison and Travis. I feel like are going to grow together in interesting ways. I also think it's interesting that she didn't seem particularly surprised at his brutal attack of the soldier like some of the others were. I feel that while we don't know about them they fit together because of how much they know about each other. I don't see the writers playing the unexplored past plot lines with these two which will be nice.

Also really liking Nick more. Out of the people in the house the only one I truly was annoyed by is now dead. Now we're down to meh's (Salazars daughter, Travis's son) and people I like. So I'm looking forward to next year.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Additionally it could be down to units at this point. Maybe there is no higher communication. You did hear the soldiers on the tower discussing there was no higher command right?

I heard it mentioned but wasnt paying too much attention and didnt get any specifics, figured it was probably just wide-eyed rumors or casual foxhole bitching about how gakky the LT is/was at his job, or more likely the fact that he was dead and they didn't have a commanding officer, aside from maybe an NCOIC?

Another big reason I dislike the episode is because they took the 'inept military' and 'ineffective military' tropes to a whole new level. It seems like, for all intents and purposes, the military was capable of making some headway (what was it? cleared a 6 mile radius from the fence? thats a pretty huge area, considering that a platoon was able to successfully clear and hold that, it would seem that the military response is far more successful and capable than one would expect), yet they opted to pull-out for reasons unknown (do they ever mention whats going on at the other 11 safe zones below the San Gabriel mountains? were they overrun? I'd assume not all were equally successful, but unless they were all being overwhelmed with the exception of this one, it doesn't seem like pulling out was a reasonable course of action). In other words, the military was so ineffective that they actually *WERE* effective but decided they weren't effective enough and that firebombing/nuking cities was a better solution than doing something that was actually generating real results... or maybe they were so effective that they were actually ineffective, either way a bit of a disconnect here.

On top of that, not only did the main cast demonstrate military ineptness by breaking the rules and doing their own thing because they were convinced of their own moral superiority over their protectors, but they outright & intentionally took a course of action to kill military forces and destroy the safe area, and in the process likely killing all their neighbors/those who weren't part of their little selfish clique of special snowflake survivors. In other words, the main cast felt the military was so inept/the military executed its job so ineptly, that a group of donkey-caves intentionally sabotaged the entire operation in the most idiotic of ways (which would have been fully preventable if the military was less inept to begin with), in the process killing dozens of soldiers and innocent civilians (intentionally, mind you) and as a result exacerbating their own situation and putting them in greater danger. At least in most other zombie fiction the survivors that are at loggerheads with the military authorities policy unintentionally get everyone killed by doing something stupid and selfish, but no, in FtWD, they had to take it to a whole new level and have them make conscious and rationalized decisions to help speed up the end of the world.

BTW, for all intents and purposes, there really isn't much to suggest that the military are in any way, shape, or form bad guys. We see that Liza and Exner were actually providing meaningful care to their patients, rather than the initial assumption the show had us make that they were lining people up against a wall and executing them or something.