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So we all know there's those rules for units' abilities like staring contests and dancing around on an invisible horse. Well, I wanted to make a rule (more of a caveat) when playing games with friends or at a FLGS when people want to include models they have but without having to do certain things that might make them or their opponent (even other store customers) uncomfortable.

When a rule comes up that requires you and your opponent to perform an action that either of you feel uncomfortable doing; instead each player rolls a dice and whoever gets the highest result wins, and the appropriate modifiers or event, etc, takes place.

When a rule requires that the owning player performs an action, that player rolls a dice, and on a 4+ the bonus or benefit is gained.

I think this will help others feel more comfortable playing with their models that have those funky rules, as well as helping speed the game up.

Part of my whole reasoning on this is the last page of the rule book that states, "there may be times when you are not sure exactly how to resolve a situation that has come up during play. When this happens, have a quick chat with your opponent, and apply the solution that makes the most sense to you both (or seems the most fun!). If no single solution presents itself, both of you should roll a dice, and whoever rolls higher gets to choose what happens. Then you can get on with the fighting!" Since this is titled "The Most Important Rule" and is actually part of the rule book, I think this kind of ruling I'm proposing should be considered as legitimate for those who don't want to perform any of those funky rules. This is also stating that the most fun or sensible agreements must be made that will help speed up the game. Thus I think this is perfectly acceptable.

How does this sound? Has anyone else made house rules on these rules?

You can aswell just let them get the bonus without roll-offs. It is already pre-built in the rules and the requirement is there to throw some comedy in the atmosphere. A roll off is, as always, an acceptable mediator, but players generally tend to feel cheated by the dice when they thought they were in their right. Such things won't win games on their own - I'd just let the player have it and be content.

If a rule requires that I dance to gain a benefit and I'm willing to dance... by changing to a 4+ you are taking away by benefit 50% of the time. Normally I'd gain the benefit 100% of the time.

I think you need to house rule this such that if I have control over the outcome, I get the benefit. If my opponent has control over the outcome, we roll off.

Example...
The Masque of Slaanesh's "The Endless Dance" Ability - "If you are dancing while rolling the dice for the Masque's attacks in the combat phase, you can re-roll any failed hit rolls. If, at any point, you can coerce your opponent to join in, you can re-roll any failed wound rolls as well."

So, I have total control over whether or not I dance. As such, I'd house rule that I always get to re-roll hit rolls. My opponent has control over whether or not he/she dances. I'd house rule that I need a 4+ to re-roll wound rolls.

 Kriswall wrote:
I think you need to house rule this such that if I have control over the outcome, I get the benefit. If my opponent has control over the outcome, we roll off.

Absolutely. Why do my orcs potentially not get +2 to charge, when I'm probably yelling excitedly as I chuck the dice anyway? And when being fast on the charge makes sense for orcs from a game mechanic and fluff standpoint?

If some people hate the flavor side of these rules, I guess that's their thing and they needn't have to LARP along when called upon to do so. But I've not understood erasing these rules entirely - I could conceivably do the same to any rule I don't like facing either.

- Salvage

 Kriswall wrote:
If a rule requires that I dance to gain a benefit and I'm willing to dance... by changing to a 4+ you are taking away by benefit 50% of the time. Normally I'd gain the benefit 100% of the time.

I think you need to house rule this such that if I have control over the outcome, I get the benefit. If my opponent has control over the outcome, we roll off.

Example...
The Masque of Slaanesh's "The Endless Dance" Ability - "If you are dancing while rolling the dice for the Masque's attacks in the combat phase, you can re-roll any failed hit rolls. If, at any point, you can coerce your opponent to join in, you can re-roll any failed wound rolls as well."

So, I have total control over whether or not I dance. As such, I'd house rule that I always get to re-roll hit rolls. My opponent has control over whether or not he/she dances. I'd house rule that I need a 4+ to re-roll wound rolls.

But then, if your opponent has control over the outcome, shouldn't it just never happen? Normally you'd benefit 0% of the time, so why are you gaining the benefit 50% of the time? The only rules I would say should be determined by a rolloff are the ones like "If you have better beard/moustache than your opponent..." rules.
Otherwise, if you have control over the outcome, 100% of the time. If your enemy has control over the outcome, 0% of the time.

 Mr_Volcano wrote:
So we all know there's those rules for units' abilities like staring contests and dancing around on an invisible horse. Well, I wanted to make a rule (more of a caveat) when playing games with friends or at a FLGS when people want to include models they have but without having to do certain things that might make them or their opponent (even other store customers) uncomfortable.

When a rule comes up that requires you and your opponent to perform an action that either of you feel uncomfortable doing; instead each player rolls a dice and whoever gets the highest result wins, and the appropriate modifiers or event, etc, takes place.

When a rule requires that the owning player performs an action, that player rolls a dice, and on a 4+ the bonus or benefit is gained.

I think this will help others feel more comfortable playing with their models that have those funky rules, as well as helping speed the game up.

Part of my whole reasoning on this is the last page of the rule book that states, "there may be times when you are not sure exactly how to resolve a situation that has come up during play. When this happens, have a quick chat with your opponent, and apply the solution that makes the most sense to you both (or seems the most fun!). If no single solution presents itself, both of you should roll a dice, and whoever rolls higher gets to choose what happens. Then you can get on with the fighting!" Since this is titled "The Most Important Rule" and is actually part of the rule book, I think this kind of ruling I'm proposing should be considered as legitimate for those who don't want to perform any of those funky rules. This is also stating that the most fun or sensible agreements must be made that will help speed up the game. Thus I think this is perfectly acceptable.

How does this sound? Has anyone else made house rules on these rules?

Okay, I believe these rules were included to lighten the game up, to make it more fun and even a little goofy, and to make it less competitive. I also believe that "The Most Important Rule" was included to reinforce that, and encourage cooperation between opponents. I find it somewhat ironic you need the rule to consider your opinion valid to begin with though, house ruling's been a thing for ages.

Which brings me to my next point, it's a house rule. The rules, like I said, are meant to lighten you up, not make you uncomfortable. If they're house rules, that implies you'll be using them with the same people on a regular basis, so why would you feel embarrassed acting a little silly from time to time? I mean, don't forget you're playing with painted toy soldiers surrounded by model terrain representing a fantasy land... At that point, what's the problem with holding a cup aloft and declaring "FOR THE LADY"?

Seems a little uptight to me, but you won't find out till you ask, I'm sure most nice people would let you bow out... (I would still do them though )

We simply disregard them, they only add something to the game if that is your groups "thing".

 pax macharia wrote:

 Mr_Volcano wrote:
So we all know there's those rules for units' abilities like staring contests and dancing around on an invisible horse. Well, I wanted to make a rule (more of a caveat) when playing games with friends or at a FLGS when people want to include models they have but without having to do certain things that might make them or their opponent (even other store customers) uncomfortable.

When a rule comes up that requires you and your opponent to perform an action that either of you feel uncomfortable doing; instead each player rolls a dice and whoever gets the highest result wins, and the appropriate modifiers or event, etc, takes place.

When a rule requires that the owning player performs an action, that player rolls a dice, and on a 4+ the bonus or benefit is gained.

I think this will help others feel more comfortable playing with their models that have those funky rules, as well as helping speed the game up.

Part of my whole reasoning on this is the last page of the rule book that states, "there may be times when you are not sure exactly how to resolve a situation that has come up during play. When this happens, have a quick chat with your opponent, and apply the solution that makes the most sense to you both (or seems the most fun!). If no single solution presents itself, both of you should roll a dice, and whoever rolls higher gets to choose what happens. Then you can get on with the fighting!" Since this is titled "The Most Important Rule" and is actually part of the rule book, I think this kind of ruling I'm proposing should be considered as legitimate for those who don't want to perform any of those funky rules. This is also stating that the most fun or sensible agreements must be made that will help speed up the game. Thus I think this is perfectly acceptable.

How does this sound? Has anyone else made house rules on these rules?

Okay, I believe these rules were included to lighten the game up, to make it more fun and even a little goofy, and to make it less competitive. I also believe that "The Most Important Rule" was included to reinforce that, and encourage cooperation between opponents. I find it somewhat ironic you need the rule to consider your opinion valid to begin with though, house ruling's been a thing for ages.

Which brings me to my next point, it's a house rule. The rules, like I said, are meant to lighten you up, not make you uncomfortable. If they're house rules, that implies you'll be using them with the same people on a regular basis, so why would you feel embarrassed acting a little silly from time to time? I mean, don't forget you're playing with painted toy soldiers surrounded by model terrain representing a fantasy land... At that point, what's the problem with holding a cup aloft and declaring "FOR THE LADY"?

Seems a little uptight to me, but you won't find out till you ask, I'm sure most nice people would let you bow out... (I would still do them though )

The only reason I quoted The Most Important Rule is just to point out that the rules allow for an alternative for certain situations, so people can have fun and find a middle ground somewhere. I also included it so that hardliners couldn't claim they could force an opponent to do it when they didn't feel comfortable to do it.

I know it is meant to make the game lighthearted, but the game was just fine without. I came to play a game, not a dancing or shouting competition or beard show. lol Simply put, it is unnecessary and slows down the game where a simple dice roll is more fair.

The trouble is figuring out the intent of the balance, since the rules have inconsistent triggers and inconsistent strength.

Grail Knights are probably intended to have re-rolls for their hits - it helps differentiate them from other knights in the list, the "silly" rule is not conditional and doesn't require input from an opponent, re-rolling hits isn't balance shattering, etc.

On the other end of the spectrum, Greasus Goldtooth's silly rule can be completely game breaking.

Everyone Has Their Price:
If Greasus Goldtooth uses this ability, select an enemy unit anywhere on the battlefield and choose one of the effects listed below:
- The unit cannot move in its next turn.
- The unit cannot move, attack or cast spells in its next turn.
- All models in the unit immediately flee.
- The unit changes sides and immediately comes under your control.

Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts your bribe, the chosen effect takes place – otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer...

What are you supposed to do with that? It's meant to be funny or silly or intriguing, but it's impossible to tell what 'power level' greasus is actually supposed to have. The difference between playing without that rule, attempting to play with the rule, and just allowing Greasus' owner to gain control of an enemy unit once per turn without restriction, is... well, staggering.

coelomate wrote:
The trouble is figuring out the intent of the balance, since the rules have inconsistent triggers and inconsistent strength.

Grail Knights are probably intended to have re-rolls for their hits - it helps differentiate them from other knights in the list, the "silly" rule is not conditional and doesn't require input from an opponent, re-rolling hits isn't balance shattering, etc.

On the other end of the spectrum, Greasus Goldtooth's silly rule can be completely game breaking.

Everyone Has Their Price:
If Greasus Goldtooth uses this ability, select an enemy unit anywhere on the battlefield and choose one of the effects listed below:
- The unit cannot move in its next turn.
- The unit cannot move, attack or cast spells in its next turn.
- All models in the unit immediately flee.
- The unit changes sides and immediately comes under your control.

Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts your bribe, the chosen effect takes place – otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer...

What are you supposed to do with that? It's meant to be funny or silly or intriguing, but it's impossible to tell what 'power level' greasus is actually supposed to have. The difference between playing without that rule, attempting to play with the rule, and just allowing Greasus' owner to gain control of an enemy unit once per turn without restriction, is... well, staggering.

That's why I think rolling dice instead of just giving it to players is much better. Like that rule could be based on a roll off, re-rolling ties or a 4+ for a 50/50 chance, or in a situation like this, it simply be on a roll of a 5+ or 6+ that happens. That's why I'd want to be clear with my opponent on those kinds of rules.

I'm not doing this to balance the game, just to make it easier for players and not bogged down with funky rules.

We've done the same thing and make them 4+ dice roll to get the effect. We will probably review in time once everyone gets more experience with the game but for now it works ok.

We play this as just use the rule no matter what and a get on with the game, i mean seriously do you want your orc friend to have to bellow waagh with every charge to get the 2" extra just give it to them and be done with it!

Why would you want to get rid of the absolutely hilarious nonsense that the funny rules provide? I thought they were some of the best part. :/ I can see letting go some of the ones that people find embarrassing like galloping around on an invisible horse but I see that level comedy go down sometimes just because the FLGS goers like to fool around anyway.

Man, I want that gold tooth guy now. I can make the most silly and/or ludicrous offers. You can still say no after all. Sounds balanced to me. Hell I'll let you make one of my units not move for half your pizza. I'll let one unit flee for like ten bucks if you really want. Playing against him is actually possibly the more fun part then playing him your self

Step one: Play against bribe guy
Step two: Haggle away the win
Step three: Profit?!

When we play, all the "funky" rules are in effect, unless it is a deal between players. Some rules are down right sexist at times and would make the female gamers in my group, wife included, feel excluded otherwise.

And to say they were intended as a real mechanic, how are the actual AoS being shipped sans stupid rules then?

These funky rules make me feel as if they are trying to disrespect/down play the game I used to love.

AND. There is no where in the rules that, previous and current, that ever said you couldn't dance sing or have a beard before. These rules add nothing to the game play, in fact they restrict games by requiring it for the rerolls and etc.

I never had a problem with the funky rules. I don't take the game or myself that seriously though.

We have a dwarf player who has a big beard in real life. He gets the re-rolls because of it. Oh well.

We still have close games. The game is not disrespecting me. I still pull off wins despite it.

If you don't like the rules - don't use them.

For me, warhammer stopped being serious business a very long time ago though so to me its just another thing to deal with.