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Hey all, first time posting here on Dakka dakka.

So I play mostly Tyranids, dabbling a little here and there some Dark Eldar. I've settled in of the Death Korps of Krieg or Black Templars to be my first Imperial army, but I think I have one last stop to make before I go there.

I've loved the look and fluff of Thousand Sons for a long while, so I think I'll build a sizable force of them before making my way to the loyalists.

I'm themeing this list around no daemonic possession. I essentially want as little chaos corruption in these rubrics that crunch allows. Again this is my first time designing a CSM list, and would be my first time running CSM as well. This is an end-goal list, I'll be building my force up until I can reach this point.

2,000 points
Combined Arms Detatchment, Chaos Space Marines

Ahriman, Warlord

Sorcerer
ML3, Mark of Tzeench, Bolt Pistol, Power Axe, Sigil of Corruption, Spell Familiar

Thousand Sons
8 Rubric Marines
Aspiring sorcerer with power axe, melta bombs
Chaos Rhino with dirge caster

Thousand Sons
8 Rubric Marines
Aspiring sorcerer with power axe, melta bombs
Chaos Rhino with dirge caster

Thousand Sons
8 Rubric Marines
Aspiring sorcerer with power axe, melta bombs
Chaos Rhino with dirge caster

Thousand Sons
8 Rubric Marines
Aspiring sorcerer with power axe, melta bombs
Chaos Rhino with dirge caster

Hell Blade
Hellstorm Autocannons

Hell Blade
Hellstorm Autocannons

Chaos Fire Raptor
Reaper Autocannon Arrays
Hellstrike Missiles
Ceramite plating (a lot of melta storm toasters in my meta)

Thoughts and suggestions are welcome, i'd like to try and stick with the theme of no daemonic possession/overly corrupted units though.

Thousand sons tactics are also appreciated.

Looks fun, I'd probably lose the dirge caster in favor of dozer blades on the rhinos. I don't think you'll be assaulting too much as is.

Also maybe lose the MoT on the sorcerer. Ahriman will let you take Thousand Sons as troops already. That way you can try to get 3 powers from Telepathy or maybe Biomancy.

Should I not try to give the sorcerer that 3++ save? That was the point of the MoT, aside from fluff reasons seeing how the rest of the army has it. I see what you mean with trying to get those extra powers off. Which discipline would you reccomend for this? I'm not really accustomed to the various tables, only old edition biomancy and the Tyranid table.

Without the mark you'll get 3 powers and a primaris from a useful discipline. As for what's good, I think Biomancy for a sorcerer is excellent. I like to use a force staff so if you roll Iron Arm you become Strength 9.

Alternatively Telepathy is good. Psychic Shriek, shrouding, and invisibility are all really strong.

So Ahriman has to roll at least one power on the Tzeench discipline, and can roll the 3 others on whatever he wants? What would be the best to utilize his special ability? And do I get access to the Tzeench primaries as well as the one I get from rolling? I'm a bit slow on the chaos powers.

I've never used Ahriman so I can't say for sure. I would imagine you'd want to load up on witchfires. I'd get Psychic Shriek from Telepathy and also Smite from Biomancy. You could roll on Bio 2x to see if you can get one of the other good powers on there. If you get something you don't want trade it for smite and try again.

As for the Primaris you automatically get the Tzeentch one and one other power from Tzeentch that you roll. Weird Chaos stuff.

Ok, I'm back again after doing some theory-hammer and rolling dice I'm not as comfortable with where I stand in terms of putting down terminators/high AV targets. Essentially because of my having to sacrifice a unit in cc to get the melta bombs off.

So I'm kind of split. I wanted as many actual rubric marines on the field as I was comfortable with, but I need AT or I'll be steamrolled in my meta. I decided to drop a unit of rubrics and take either 2 lascannon predators or some havoks.

I think I want the predators, as it fits better with the mechanized feel of the army as a whole, and havoks can benefit greatly by being prime targets for ahriman's infiltration, but I'm not sold either way. I know I don't want obliterators. Help me decide?

Ahriman
Sorcerer, ML3, force axe, sigil of corruption, spell familiar
8 Thousand sons + sorcerer with force axe, rhino with dozer blades
7 Thousand sons+ sorcerer with force axe, rhino with dozer blades
7 Thousand sons+ sorcerer with force axe, rhino with dozer blades
Hell blade with helfire autocannons
Hell blade with helfire autocannons
Fire raptor with reaper autocannon batteries with malefic ammunition, 4 balefire Incendiary missiles, armored ceramite plating, Legacy of Ruin: Vessel of Tzeenahk the Occluder
Predator with lascannon sponsons, twin-linked lascannon turret
Predator with lascannon sponsons, twin-linked lascannon turret

And that's 2000. I'm not too sure how to runs the havoks in place of them. They just get more expensive than the predators. 4 meltas in rhinos?

This list seems quite similar to what you're aiming for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UHtGhUeAfE

That looks alright but I want to try and stay away from helbrutes. I just don't like the model.

I'm in the same footsteps as you. Long time tyranid player, have made a thousand sons army for a year now. Here is some feedback. It will be a wall of text.

1. No MoT on your lvl 3 sorc. Since you already have Ahriman, you have unlocked the sons in your troops already. The mark on the characters is bad, as it forces you to spend a dice on the useless Tzeentch lore and it costs way too much to boot. If it was me, I would completely remove the sigil of corruption also, keep my sorc as cheap as possible. When you are a T4 model, having inv save or not isn't really a big deal. If you want the invul save to matter give your sorc a bike.

2. Your original list lacks anti-tank really bad. Same goes for my lists. I have found that TS lists need much more antitank than other armies. Because you can usually outshoot/outlast your opponents in an attrition game but if they bunk up in a metal bawks you are left stranded. TS is a very slow army, you can't hope to outmaneuver the opponent and hit their rear armor.

3. Thousand sons shooting is sort-of-reliable, it has great ap but it is not enough. If you find yourself against horde armies you will lose badly. Try to cram some flamers on your list. The burning brand is always nice, as are pyromancy powers, but some extra flamers would go a long way.

4. Don't put dirge casters, you won't be charging much with your sons anyways. either buy dozer blades (because your army is veeeeeery slow), or add havoc launchers and use rhinos as cheaper razorbacks.

This is a sample of my list so far. I do not focus heavily on psychic (this would require to have demon allies, there is no way we can amass enough charges without demons). Instead I am trying to build a durable army that can outlast elite armies and deny their saves.

Sorc, MoT, ML 1, combi plasma, warlord (joins the chosen).

8 sons + sorcerer + rhino + dozer blades
8 sons + sorcerer + rhino + dozer blades

5 x chosen + champ + 5 plasma guns + combi plasma + rhino + dozer blades
3 x termicide, powerfists, combi melta, MoT

1 x helldrake

5 x havocs, 4 x autocannons
3 x obliterators, MoT
3 x obliterators, MoT

Small list, a lot of 4++ saves, very specialized in killing elite armies and meq. I have my sons squads, a suicidal 7 plasma gun unit, long range shooting in my heavy slots, the obligatory helldrake and a unit of termicide because I want to be battleforged. Otherwise you can add a demonic possessed vindi.

Now I want to slowly change my list to an all - tank wall of tzeentch. This will remove "demon" elements from your army like obliterators and leave you with more units and a LOT of metal boxes. List should be something like this (unbound obviously)

Predator, tri-las
Predator, tri-las
Predator, autocannon, heavy bolters, havoc launcher, gargoyles
Predator, autocannon, heavy bolters, havoc launcher, gargoyles
Vindicator, demon possession
Vindicator, demon possession
5 x havocs, 4 x plasma guns, rhino

8 sons + sorcerer + rhino
8 sons + sorcerer + rhino

4 x Terminators, pf, combi melta , Land raider

Sorcerer, whatever points allotment.

This list has 10 tanks that form a nice wall and try to move + blast the enemy in all kinds of fashion. Will still lose to Astartes free parking lots but hey, that's a difference 3 years worth of codexes make.

My third concoction is an all-out-psychic list, but this one needs daemons. It is also unbound and it includes units from all three books (CSM, crimson slaughter and black crusade) and daemon allies.

herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
Herald of Tzeentch, ML 3
16 x pink horrors
16 x pink horrors

Sorcerer, ML 3, last memory of yuranthos, spell familiar, combi plasma, sigil of corruption

Sorcerer, ML 3, balestar of mammon, combi plasma, sigil of corruption

Ahriman
Sorcerer, ML 3, spell familiar, combi plasma, sigil of corruption

5 x chosen, 4 x plasma guns, combi plasma, Dreadclaw drop pod with jet boosters, ravagers upgrade from crimson slaughter.

8 + 1 sons in metal box
8 + 1 sons in metal box

Spend any rest points as you see fit.

This list has 25+ warp charges. Put all the wizards in the chosen unit and deep strike them all together in the dreadclaw first turn right in the middle of the enemy bulk. Roll with your simple sorcerers for invisibility first. Once your unit is invisible, use all remaining dice on last memory of yuranthos and ahriman, who can cast up to 15 witchfires. Choose your powers depending on the enemy (pyromancy vs hordes, telekinesis vs tanks, shriek vs low ld armies etc). If you got any spare dice, go for prescience on your balestar sorc because you still have your 8 plasma guns to shoot in the shooting phase, even though you have preferred enemy already. If you have any spells left after you roll your invisibilities, go for sanctic demonology and give all your sorcerers force axes. Hammerhand + invisibility + force axes = a sick close combat unit. +1 invul save spell will turn your sorcer-star into a 3++ powerhouse, and gate of infinity can teleport your unit out of danger or wherever else it wants to be next. Also the sanctic flamestrike nova + pyromancy nova + last memory can cleave their way through any horde army with ease. Overall funky little list but it involves unbound stuff from 4 different books plus forgeworld.

I like your list, the triple las preds will help fill the AT role in your army

Yeah I wanted to stay away from daemons and daemonforge, preferring rubrics to anything else, hence the predators.

How does the second list fare for you, topaxigouroun i? I want air superiority in my list, and I think the Fire Raptor with thet legacy will draw out AA away from my hell blades.

I've built myself a little guide for building my force from 500 points to 2500, so I can purchase and assemble what I need in order. I plan to start that up in about a week, but I might hold off for the rumored Tzeench Daemonkin codex. Apparently there's supposed to be a 10-man Rubric Marine plastic kit coming with them.

Mr ghoti wrote:
Yeah I wanted to stay away from daemons and daemonforge, preferring rubrics to anything else, hence the predators.

How does the second list fare for you, topaxigouroun i? I want air superiority in my list, and I think the Fire Raptor with thet legacy will draw out AA away from my hell blades.

I've built myself a little guide for building my force from 500 points to 2500, so I can purchase and assemble what I need in order. I plan to start that up in about a week, but I might hold off for the rumored Tzeench Daemonkin codex. Apparently there's supposed to be a 10-man Rubric Marine plastic kit coming with them.

Ahem. *Cough http://wargameexclusive.com/shop/kits-and-bits/thousand-sons-marines-conversion-set/ cough*. Yeah. I don't care much about air to be honest. I have a helldrake because I got gifted one and it helps to up my competitive level slightly. But I ignore most of my enemy's air units. I lose to Flyrants of course, but that's part of the deal anyways. Apart from tyranids, most air units follow similar profiles (3-5 shots with str 6-9 and low ap) which don't hurt my 4++ units much. Granted they often go after my Oblits but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make. I just focus on the enemy ground army instead. I do not have any FW, my main army is tyranids so I spend my FW money there mostly.

As for the second list, it has a lot of msu stuff which I like a lot, and deploying 10 tanks in a straight line always adds the intimidating factor of metal boxes. The tri-las predators are cheap and efficient, the vindicators are, well, vindicators. Mind you they need their demonic possession otherwise every hull point will disable them for the turn. What I really really love though is my anti-infantry predator. It sports an autocannon, 2 heavy bolters, a havoc launcher and gargoyles make all those weapons have soul blaze. It has great range (36-48"), very good strength (5-7), a lot of attacks (6 heavy bolter + 2 autocannon + TL blast and the occational combi-bolter) with the added bonus of soulblaze and is super-super cheap (slightly more than 100 pts) and sports a front armor 13 to boot. There is really not much not to like about that one. This plus the thousand sons units consist your anti infantry, vindicators go for the specialized role of demolishing stuff your other things just cannot kill, your tri-las are your antiarmor and you have an extra land raider + terminators in case someone wants to mess with your wall of tzeentch. It is a solid list, tough as nails but it is slow/immobile and no matter what you do, having to pay for your 10 tanks is worse than getting said tanks for free (call-me-astartes-overlord-of-the-galaxee).

Mr ghoti wrote:
That looks alright but I want to try and stay away from helbrutes. I just don't like the model.

The forgeworld dreadnoughts are perfectly fine to count as Helbrutes... Take two thousand sons ones and an iron clad one, swap the ironclad and thousand sons leg so they all have a different look.

Keep in mind, that a "pure" list implies the lack of other patron units or possibly even no "undivided" units. It does not dissallow Daemonic units. The Rubricae is the reason why I dislike using Ahriman and would prefer aligning with Magnus instead. A Thousand Sons force that isn't outcasted from the Planet of Sorcerers, uses Daemons, and isn't as limited. Use Raptors, Warp Talons, Obliterators, Bikes, etc. The Dark Mechanicum supports the old Legions with new tainted toys---use them to burn the galaxy. Tzeentch may influence others to its interest, allowing allies and other patrons to fill a role in the ultimate plan.

Most Thousand Sons armies take a few squads supported by Predators, Helbrute, or Vindicators. The AT tanks that lack daemonic presence of a 5++. (It would be great if DP granted that.) You'll need to use Cover for your tanks if you choose this composition.

You'll need to deny your opponent Cover and then punish him in the open with your AP firepower. While you have 4++ on Thousand Sons, augment the Cover save from Ruins or what you have with Stealth and Shrouded for more resiliency as you won't Go to Ground. Use Legion organization and have supporting Havoc squads armed as counter charge units moving forward to screen and Overwatch.

Well its more expensive, but I could swap the two predators out for 2 units of 3 rapier laser batteries. 2 rolls to pen, and AP1 with T7, 3+, as opposed to one twin-linked cannon and AV13.

Thoughts on either?

Rapiers are good and Thousand Sons will be a decent unit used for protection.

If nothing else, I'd avise running out of crimson slaughter and picking up the balestar, simply so you can roll div and search for perfect timing, since AP3 means bugger all if your target is camped in cover. Technically you also get armywide fear, but since fear doesn't matter, who cares, and you can't take VotLW, but all TSons come stock with vets anyway, so again, who cares?

Misfortune will help against 2+ saves, prescience helps against anything you really want dead (especially if combining with misfortune), forewarning lets you pop a 4++ on one of your tanks/fliers and with 3 fliers, scriers can let them come in with a bit more reliability. The only dud power is full BS overwatch since everything that matters is S'nP and can't overwatch.

Ditch the dirgecasters as others have said.

For Ahriman's powers;
Roll 1 on Tzeentch 'cause you have to and rejoice if you got doombolt and pick up firestorm for free.
Roll 1 on Telepathy, if you got invis, score, keep that and roll again, if not, exchange for Shriek and move on
Remaining roll/s on Biomancy. If you roll Haemorrage, exchange for Smite, keep anything else since pretty much anything else is golden for him.

I assume you already know Thousand Sons are terrible, so I won't try and dissuade you from going down this path of damnation and ruin. Your list actually looks fairly viable as you should be able to control midfield fairly well and you las preds should be able to do some work from the backfield, but with so few metal boxes on the field 1st turn (compared to things like the gladius), they're still going to get wrecked early.

I'd suggest Vindies for anti tank, but without Daemonic possession and other threats, I don't think they'd be worth it. and that's about your only other choice for non-daemon vehicles (other than a 'Raider, but who the hell takes them for their guns?)

Would love to see some battle reports when you build you guys, would quite like to see a twist on how I normally run my TSons.