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30k is more balanced.
Resin is a matter of opinion I personally hate it and for premium prices of fw I do expect plastic.
Overall it is pricey as all forge world but aside of primarch who can be played at higher points and maybe the armor units plain marines from 40k can be used. Just bit of tweaking to make em look more 30 ish.
I've been wanting to get into 30k too. The World Eaters are my favourite chaos army in 40k so I want to do them in the heresy era. I've had a look at the books and even written up a quick 1,000 point list. I then worked out how much it would cost to buy what I needed for it - £394.50 for an HQ (Kharn of course), 3 units of 10 marines with chain axes, and a contemptor dreadnought
I think it's going to be a long-term project
“Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.
The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does.
That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
– Eighth Captain, Khârn
I'll start playing heresy when they finally get around to putting sanguinius and his boys in the rules.
(Which given that they're most relevant right at the end of the heresy, that may be a while.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/27 08:49:14
How can you hate pertuarbo model?
i mean sure it is the most expensive but he has the best model!
However i am waiting for an Alpharius model
If they do it right (and in the money grabbing way) they will do 2 different poses, one for Alpharius, one for Omegon (who can be used as Alpharius)
Seems like somebody wants to get hold of the Isstvan campaign books because he most certainly does. Providing rules is against the terms of Dakka so I'll just send you to Konrad's page on 1D4Chan which includes a lovely little breakdown of his abilities towards the bottom.
Special note to the Widowmaker throwing knives which are definitely not at all related to the Batarang.
WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company.
You won't have any special Legion Rules or Characters or Units, but you will have all of the basic squads and still make an excellent 30k Army.
If you want special rules, units, and characters (including Primarchs) for the Emperor's Children, Death Guard, Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists and Raven Guardm then you need this book: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Isstvan-Campaign-Legions
Thats a good deal - you shouldn't need any more books after getting those two unless you wanted to do a historical re-enactment?
Primarchs/LOW are only allowed in games of 2000+pts and can only take up 25% of your points.
You will have a tough time against 40k armies - the rules creep in 40k makes 30k look tame. But be aware that there are things in 30k which would make an eldar player start questioning your rules - the 'nanyte blaster' and 'combat augment array' are very nasty - they are relics, but it's unclear whether or not they are for campain use only.
The nanyte blaster is an 18" range AP2 gun that makes things blow up after they die - place a large blast marker on thier position with the same profile. Yes, kills by the blast generate a blast too...
Combat augment array allows you (once per game) to choose a six on any D6 roll you make for that model that turn - at the end of your turn you make a toughness test for each wound the character has remaining and suffer a wound for each fail.
So my Archmagos Malagra with mastercrafted paragon blade + another paragon blade, jetpack and a combat augment array - moves 6", garuanteed 12" assault, all his attacks hit, all wound, all count as instant death and each instant death wound counts as 3 wounds against a GC.. ouch.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
Perturabo is one of the ugliest models ever produced by GW or FW. The artist(if he can be called that) needs to be brought out and shot.
I play 30k Night Lords and Iron Warriors. I would say 75% of both of my armies are 40k marines. My IW is the exception since most everyone is in some form of Cataphractii armor. I think my NL have a single squad of destroyers and Night raptors(5 of them I use as a command squad).
I think the Night Lord line is one of the nicest they have made, but I am biased I suppose. I usually field either a drop pod army or a Terror Assault army.
I made my own Sevetar long before FW made their version, mostly through bits sellers on ebay and the standard 40k line.
Terror squads, I ordered heads off ebay, shoulder pads from some 3rd party company and chain glaives and Volkite weapons(again before FW made them and no I am not changing them) then stuck them on regular marines.
Night Raptors conveniently enough look like their chaos raptor equivalents so I used regular raptors, NL should pads from FW, 3rd party chain glaives, and whatever cool, non-chaosy heads I could find. Still came in cheaper than ordering FW.
All of my normal marines, support and heavy support are normal marines I picked up off of ebay with the occasional FW head and shoulder pad, and 3rd party volkite weapons.
Drop pods are drop pods. Death claws are normal drop pods with the side blades upside down, instant dreadclaw.
I do use Fire Raptors and Lightnings from FW along with a contemptor.
So yeah, building a 30k army from mostly normal 40k marines is very doable, especially if you take advantage of bartertown and ebay.
As to the rules, best army list in the entire system. There are very few bad choices, you can build your army as fluffy as you want and still expect to do decent, Night Lords have good rules, but there are some caveats.
-the good rules are great. It encourages you to play jumpacks, terminators or blobs. Add an apothecary into that blod with an auspex scanner, and now you have a FnP blob with intercept vs DSing opponents with 41 shots(if they land inside of 12") and then charge or stand there and unleash fury of the legion for 81 shots.If you outnumber your opponent(terminators and jumpacks count twice) in close combat IF you can wound the opponent, you never need worse than a 5+.
-The night Fight thing is cool with the RoW. Even better with the primarch if memory serves.
-Bad part is, if you lose your warlord, each squad in the army has to make a leadership check or run away(you can rally).
-You have no ATSKNF, the only thing you can do to mitigate this is add vexillas which allow a leadership reroll, but only limited squads have access to these.
If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM!
So my Archmagos Malagra with mastercrafted paragon blade + another paragon blade, jetpack and a combat augment array - moves 6", garuanteed 12" assault, all his attacks hit, all wound, all count as instant death and each instant death wound counts as 3 wounds against a GC.. ouch.
Extremely sure that you are playing that one wrong. The Combat Augment Array is a single D6 once per game, not every D6 for a single combat phase. So you'd be correct in saying that you can guarantee a Paragon Blade's Murderous Strike or a low-range charge, but nothing quite to the scale you've described there.
Although there is supposedly a rules interaction between an Alpha Legion Saboteur, Armillus Dynat's +1 to tank rolls, and the Array that guarantees a single destroyed vehicle per game. Not sure on the legality of that one though.
WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company.
"Once per game, declared at the beginning of the controlling players player turn, the character may count any dice roll as automatically rolling a 6. At the end of that player turn, the model should make a Toughness test for every wound they have remaining. Each failed test results in the character sustaining a wound, with no saves of any kind or feel no pain rolls possible."
My Achmagos also has a cyber familiar which allows him to re-roll failed characteristic tests.
Nice to see that forgeworld are capable of recognising an FNP roll as a ROLL not a 'save'.
edit: with his macchinator array making him toughness 6 whoops, thats my other dude, but at T5 he only fails on a six.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/27 13:51:48
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
Although there is supposedly a rules interaction between an Alpha Legion Saboteur, Armillus Dynat's +1 to tank rolls, and the Array that guarantees a single destroyed vehicle per game. Not sure on the legality of that one though.
Not legal. The array must be activated at the start of turn, but you are not allowed to start of turn abilities on the same turn you arrive from reserve.
so night lords play either very fast, very Terminator heavy, or very blob heavy? I would go with jump pack because its fun, and I like to go fast
what about emperors children? What do they play like?
another question, so the bodies for the tactical squads are sold like normal, then you purchase the shoulderpads, helmets, ect as an upgrade for the tactical squad? Seems expensive... So if I decide to play 30k, I would just buy the 2 books mentioned above? And im set when it comes to rules?
sorry for all the questions, however, the more I look at corax or the emperors children terminators me (and my wallet) cry.
on a side note: perturabo looks terrible. His face is so fat, and his base is stupid and his pose is static. It might have something to do with the fact that FW didn't base him.
Emperors Children have crusader and mandatory challenges, have wargear that improves their initiative and fancy lances, and have a rite of war that allows them to move further 1st round as well as cool stuff for reserves.
They are geared towards being fast with high initiative attacks in CC.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the books, yeah youd need three books to play one of the legions. Both red books (Crusade Army List for common SM units, and Istavaan Redbook for legion rules), and you need a copy of the 40k rules as the core rulebook.
That's if you want to play Marines, anyways.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for models, I just use 40k stuff, but yeah, you buy the Marines, then if you wanted the special legion shoulder pads and heads, you gotta buy it separate.
If you have a pile of bits you can look through your shoulder pads and heads to see if you have anything you could sort togthr and use for conversions, as well. Some of the Chaos heads and shoulder pads , for example, can look pretty fancy.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/08/27 22:07:09
As an EC player, I can tell you our rules and wargear are designed to get us into combat quicker, make our characters hit first and hard, and help us wipe the enemy with sweeping advances. And all of that is fairly useless unless we can actually win the combat by enough to make the enemy break.
In most rankings of the Legions, EC usually come in last. But we are the prettiest!
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
What are the ranking Heresy Legions anyway? With the new box set rumored I'm curious what the power levels are. I imagine Alpha Legion is pretty high up with the ability to take a different Legion's unique unit by choice.
All legions are pretty viable. just depends on your play style. Pick a legion that has a rite you like.
I would say terminators fare a bit better in 30k
I want to say Death Guard are most popular so far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/28 02:54:15
aww, I am looking at them, as my brother is interested in night lords, and they look cool, I like the scythe motif, except for mortarion's scythe, its so stupid looking.
But is a Primarch really the most important part? I mean, sure, it's fluffy, but I'd rather have a Praetor tooled up however I like and a Fellblade in the LOW slot. There doesn't seem like a lot that can reliably deal with uber armor outside of the LOWs.
The Deathshrouds do look pretty cool though. And a fully painted Death Guard army is prolly the second best looking of the bunch. World Eaters are number one for me, with liberal use of the blood effect.
seriously, primarchs are basically all I care about model wise lol.
I freakin love all of them, sooooo much, and for most of the time, them, and a captain or two are the only models posted up besides a contemtor (ewww, I hate those things for some reason).
bar the word bearers, I love all the legions roughly equally, so it comes down to the models, and I would always (when I can) take a primarch.
and yes, they are so much cooler than a praetor or some type of tank for a LOW slot (IMO)
My mate recently bought himself a 'Fulgrim' - he had been of the opinion that he didn't want to buy into 30k but that one model has pretty much sold it to him!
Loads of detail, and the more you paint, the more detail pops out!
Have a read of the fluff about each primarch and see how you feel then?
There's also the Mechanicum.....
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
Before answering this, I'd like to point out that since everybody draws from the same pool of units, actual Legion differences are caused by their unique units and the interactions caused from their Legiones Astartes special rule. It's an odd concept to start with but it means that generally speaking, the Legions are equal but pushed into different builds that promote the best use of your special rules.
For example, the Iron Hands one is an extremely powerful buff to shooting resilience, and so an Iron Hands army that invests all of its points into melee units is not going to see the benefit. Whereas any Legion can play tank-spam, but unless your Legion rewards you for doing so (Iron Hands, Iron Warriors) you're naturally going to be less efficient than an army that plays to your strengths.
This is the great advantage of the Heresy list IMO- anybody can play anything, but almost universally the strongest list is also the fluffiest.
As for my own, completely biased ranking of Legions? I'd go for the classic 'tier' system. Note that these are 30k tiers and far closer than 40k's balance. There is nothing even close to a fight between Eldar and Militarum Tempestus here.
Tier 1 Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Word Bearers
Tier 2 Death Guard, Iron Warriors, Salamanders, Ultramarines
Tier 3 Emperor's Children, Night Lords, Sons of Horus, World Eaters
Spoiler:
Alpha Legion are a sweet spot of extreme versatility, unpredictable deployment and savage anti-tank benefits. Extremely good Primarch and special characters, less-impressive unique units but the ability to steal other people's anyway.
Imperial Fists are extremely straightforward and make your foundations better. Your Bolters are more accurate, your heavy weapons get Tank Hunter, and everyone gets a little braver behind a wall. Rite of War strongly favours shield units.
Iron Hands are a vehicle-and-shooting army in a game that favours vehicles and shooting. Again a very simple, very reliable trait that absorbs enemy firepower. Decent characters and some of the most criminally-efficient special units in the game.
Raven Guard are similar to Alpha Legion in that Infiltrate opens up radically different playstyles to other Legions, but trade their anti-tank for much better unique units IMO. Possibly the best special character and Rite of War in the game.
Word Bearers are hard to break, but their real strength is in the Gal Vorbak and Daemonic Allies. Lorgar was recently updated in Tempest, mostly because the old iteration was game-bustingly good.
Death Guard make for a great infantry mash between an extremely shooty Rite of War, and a plethora of Terminator elites. Rad Grenades and Chem-Munitions give you the incentive and the tools to go for close-up firefights.
Iron Warriors are a shooty, hard-to-stop army in a shooting game. Not such a great Legiones Astartes but instead have excellent unique units and a Rite of War that only works at high points, but becomes extremely potent when it does.
Salamanders are similar to their 40k version in that they like spamming heat weapons and going in close. Firedrakes absolutely define the Legion as a rock-hard deathstar enabler that loves brutal melee and invincible HQ.
Ultramarines are not pushed into any specific playstyle, but instead are excellent-all-round and typically 2nd or 3rd in every theatre of war rather than ever dominating. However they are often criticised for needing player input to reach their best.
Emperor's Children are given the tools to go fast and get in close, but not the tools to actually win said fights. That said they do look stunning and between Eidolon and their Rite of War, can still come out on top.
Night Lords look fantastic but are hamstrung by a lack of anti-tank units. Sevatar is monstrous, the army can spam Volkites if that's your thing, and army-wide access to Fear is definitely a tool for 30k.
Sons of Horus are given bonuses to reserves and melee, but neither are close to the newer Legion benefits. Reavers are decent but Justaerin are brutally overcosted. Come here for Maloghurst, Horus and the colour scheme.
World Eaters are devastating in melee, but it's not really a melee game. Red Butchers and the Rite of War largely define the faction for melee prowess, and cheap Chainaxes are very useful to have against anything out of Power Armour.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/28 12:31:51
WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company.
How to play Alpha Legion
*Hide Alpharius*
Heavy Stuff in the middle
Tactical squads arrive via outflank
Steal Enemy reserves
Enemy unit goes into tall grass
'A Wild Alpharius appeared!'
Pokemon battle music
???
Profit
Alpha is on top for sure.
I would put NL in the middle. They have great special rules. I don't notice any distinct lack of Anti-armor that anyone else gets. Melta bombs are incredibly viable, especially since everything and its mother gets ceramite armor. They also have the means to spam the units that carry melta bombs. Plus they are one of the only armies that get teleporting terminators without taking a special RoW. NL like anyone else also have access to Lightnings with their 2 lascannons and multiple Kraken missiles.
Iron Warriors rules are not great. Never having to worry about panic checks from shooting is awesome though. More importantly, both unique units are flipping awesome. Tyrant Terminators, ten cataphractii(2+,4++) terminators each with cyclone missile launchers, yes please. Even better, attach a siege master in cata armor, now they have tank hunter with 20 krak missiles, and if I remember, they are scoring.
I honestly don't pay much attention to the primarchs. I have used Curze once and he did well taking out all of the DA special characters in one battle that lasted a good portion of the game.I find I need points too badly to field a primarch and there is no fluff reason he would show up in a measly 2500 point game.
If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM!
20000+ points
2000
1500
ouch.
