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Im playing most time with my orks against Dark Angels Ravenwing . Since the new Dangelscodex Im comfronted with all type of bikes, what would be bad enough, but with the darkshrouds, I have the Feeling im running out of Options. All bikes have 2+ rerollable jinksave.
And if you know the darkshrouds, there are even more problems with them to deal with.
Has anybody an clever idea to stomp those shrouded bikers?

I know this isn't in the ork codex but....

Ally in a sicaran battle tank from the space marines. 6 strength 7 ap 4 shots at 48 in range that ignore jinx saves

Try ramming the the Dark Shrouds. This happened to my DA the other day. I had my bikes tank shocked so they were forced to move away and the Dark shrouds are fragile enough your likely to damage them very easily.

We Orks have only one solution to cover saves, close combat.
I must admit I have yet to crack the new DA book, but I can't imagine they got a huge melee boost, am I right?

You'll want to get right up to them and assault, you'll need the maximum number of units that are fast with a claw to cut armor. I suggest storm boys and war bikes. This may also be the one and only time I condone nob bikers for the ability to take a couple claws in the elite slot.

Testing this theory, I'd try units of 5 with a claw, nobs 2claws. Zadsnark is a great idea, put him with a larger blob. And I wish you luck.

FratHammer wrote:
We Orks have only one solution to cover saves, close combat.
I must admit I have yet to crack the new DA book, but I can't imagine they got a huge melee boost, am I right?

You'll want to get right up to them and assault, you'll need the maximum number of units that are fast with a claw to cut armor. I suggest storm boys and war bikes. This may also be the one and only time I condone nob bikers for the ability to take a couple claws in the elite slot.

Testing this theory, I'd try units of 5 with a claw, nobs 2claws. Zadsnark is a great idea, put him with a larger blob. And I wish you luck.

New DA have improved overwatch.

They're indeed tough and the hardest part is their ability to get fast MSU that's unkillable from afar. The thing that i've figured out so far is that i have to play VERY conservatively with my footslogging horde and never leave the points unprotected or poorly protected. They don't have enough firepower or mellee capabilities to move you away but when you're going away yourself, they sweep the leftovers and outscore you. So, i figured, you got to not hang between points. Trying to shoot them down is basically useless. What you CAN do is outscore them. But you got to be better tactically to do it. In fact, much better, cause you don't have easy ways. But if you focus on the movement and counter-movement parts, you'll be fine.

What's their improved Overwatch rule?

FratHammer wrote:
What's their improved Overwatch rule?

Grim Resolve. It lets most units overwatch at BS2. They only get full Bs overwatch if they take the full Gladius equivalent.

Thanks for the answers! Well ally tasty humies are too delicous But going with more bikes for melee or trying to ram, sounds good!

Just gonna throw out the idea of Burna Bombers - St5 ignores cover pie plate plus skorcha missiles?

Tho - they'd still get their power armour save, at least it's not re-rollable...

Also the burna bomber is expensive for what it is. Probably would want to mathhammer how many casualties it could potentially inflict to see if it'd be worth the cost.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

FratHammer wrote:
What's their improved Overwatch rule?

Grim Resolve. It lets most units overwatch at BS2. They only get full Bs overwatch if they take the full Gladius equivalent.

ravenwing attack squadron lets them overwatch at bs4 which is their normal BS, also the support squadron grants them land speeders that can group overwatch.

the overwatch rules for dark angels are a near endless headbutt constantly slamming into you when ravenwing are involved

 ionusx wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

FratHammer wrote:
What's their improved Overwatch rule?

Grim Resolve. It lets most units overwatch at BS2. They only get full Bs overwatch if they take the full Gladius equivalent.

ravenwing attack squadron lets them overwatch at bs4 which is their normal BS, also the support squadron grants them land speeders that can group overwatch.

the overwatch rules for dark angels are a near endless headbutt constantly slamming into you when ravenwing are involved

In that case, the only thing Orks have going for them is biker spam and the Green Tide...the exact two same builds most Ork players have been forced into.

Green tide might suck actually. Interromancy can debuff mobs, hard. And orks don't have the world's best psychic defense.

i think that the orks are largely outclassed by ravenwing, its a really really bad idea to be rolling against competitive ravenwing builds and that orks should maybe talk to their opponents and explain that the match is effectively over before it begins and recommend them stop playing that kind of list if their going to fight them in the future. its like harleys trying to defeat a legio titanicus army with the warlord, they cant hurt av15 the match is G to the g.

One potential counter is supa skorcha big trakks. Supa Skorchas are S6 AP3 which allows you to bypass the armour save and the re-rollable cover. Unfortunately, it isn't torrent and the Big Trakk isn't fast so you'll have to spend at least a turn getting into position. It does however provide significant area of denial as well as a distraction for your other units to home in on objectives or close in for CC.

Just remember jink means nothing in CC so just drown them in bodies.

Grimskul wrote:One potential counter is supa skorcha big trakks. Supa Skorchas are S6 AP3 which allows you to bypass the armour save and the re-rollable cover. Unfortunately, it isn't torrent and the Big Trakk isn't fast so you'll have to spend at least a turn getting into position. It does however provide significant area of denial as well as a distraction for your other units to home in on objectives or close in for CC.

This^^

The Orks most direct answer is the supa-skorcha. It bypasses all saves and wounds reasonably well. Its also an option on one of our most useful vehicles the BigT. For 200 points you could field 3 easily enough, they do have a reduced transport capacity at 6 models when given the supa-skorcha, so you'd need small units inside. MANz missile, Kommando's with 2 BS's (for snap shooting), or simply keep the supa-skorcha only on the 2nd and 3rd within the squadron, loading the front with the full boyz squad.

As for overwatch, I like to use deff-coptas to eat the overwatch. BS2 or full BS overwatch is great but also useless when used against a 1 model unit.

A couple (or more) units of mega nobz in a battlewagon should do the job quite nicely I think.

IA:8 page 140 there is the ork gun complilation and there is the Supa-Scorcha, template, Str 6 Ap3 Assault 1.
With Ap3 the powersave of the bikers are gone but there is no hint for no cover saves.
Im confused a bit now.

The oveverwatch rule for DA doensn't apply if they jink.

One option is to run a green tide. fill the board with boyz. Depending or what your enemy DA is bringing on top of his bike and stuff, you should be all right. Support da green tide with some loota to ensure his support squadron (and any unit with blast) jink. No blast on you, no power in melee compare to yours... profit.

If you are more Speedy style, may I suggest 3+ battlewagon filled with boyz, surrounder by buggy with flamer.

Ravenwing have quite limited anti-armor capability. So battle wagons all the way. In CC they are just regular SM so nothing to worry about. Drop out of the wagons multicharge as many as you can and let Nobz do their job. Any dakka is helpfull also - if they jink their shooting is not so good anymore

@Panda : I tried green Tide one time, my Waaaghboss was snipered and the whole mob was debuffed, Kampfgeschick, I dont know the english word, the ability to hit in Close combat to 1. (this was not against the ravenwing, but against the conclavel 3 scriptors )
@3deimos: attack bikes with multimeltas, Blackknights with plasma, vengeance landspeeder with plasma....the only Thing that survived significantly was my stompa and morkanaut, because of the kffs or mff, but no looted wagon, trukk or battlewagon survived.

I am having the same trouble with my Gk, and cc is not the simple answer. They can hit and run, so if you don't wipe them out round 1, you are back to chasing after them whilst you get krakked and plasma'd.

Even in IA: Apocalypse page 137 the Supa-scorcha has no ignores cover.
What did I miss?

Supa-scorcha has no ignores cover.

Template weapon (not blast, template), ignore cover.

@Panda : I tried green Tide one time, my Waaaghboss was snipered and the whole mob was debuffed, Kampfgeschick, I dont know the english word, the ability to hit in Close combat to 1. (this was not against the ravenwing, but against the counsil 3 scriptors )

What do you mean snipered? By a vindicare? In any cases, look out sir is still a possibility, (I know vindicare debuff look out sir but even then, it shouldn't 1 shot you).

Interomancy spell are gimmicky. Are you allowing librarian as part of the detachment? You might want to look with your oponent how he does bring his Libby on bike. Also, I think there is only 1 interommancy that can really mess with you, so unless his psycher is lvl 2, he only have 1 chance on 3 to get it (cuz the primaris only debuff 1 model).

And lastly, playing Green Tide once is hardly statistic enough to say it doesn't work for you. I'm just suggesting here. Maybe give it another shot.

OR, go the BW way. 3+ battlewagon and RW is doomed.

If he play solo-RW, it's not a list that hard to beat. People get bugged over the 2+ or 3+ re-roll, but to be honest, RW have very low firepower. A couple plasma shot? fine, ork boyz would have die to bolter anyway. 2 bolter shot per bike at 12inch? harldy game changer since he probably have 20bikes max, and because the turn he will rapid fire, is the turn you Waagh, move, run and kill it (make them jink with lootas).

For a list of around 30-40 models of Ravenwing, you can have 2000 points of boyz and lootas. yes I agree that the Ork codex is lacky and not at his best, but against bike spam, it's one of your most favorable matchup.


EDIT: Oh sorry, I didn't see that part: this was not against the ravenwing, but against the counsil 3 scriptors. Ok, so if he is doing ally thing with RW, yeah, it's going to be a hard matchup everytime lol. I would go BW then.

Negach wrote:
Even in IA: Apocalypse page 137 the Supa-scorcha has no ignores cover.
What did I miss?

Templates ignore cover.

Black Knights are pretty ba-roken.

2+ re-rollable cover save if near the darkshroud. Twin-linked plasma shooting, ability to buff with librarians on bikes, good cc ability (corvus hammers), skilled rider (so no dangerous terrain tests), overwatch shenanigans (land speeder detachment).

Got mauled pretty solidly by them on sunday (I was with Necrons... who have a grand total of 3 ignore-cover options, one of which is one-use).

You could always take Burna boyz.....lawlz auto hits and wounds on 5s. Of course, you have to get them to their target area....which is borderline impossible.

Solar Shock wrote:

Grimskul wrote:One potential counter is supa skorcha big trakks. Supa Skorchas are S6 AP3 which allows you to bypass the armour save and the re-rollable cover. Unfortunately, it isn't torrent and the Big Trakk isn't fast so you'll have to spend at least a turn getting into position. It does however provide significant area of denial as well as a distraction for your other units to home in on objectives or close in for CC.

This^^

The Orks most direct answer is the supa-skorcha. It bypasses all saves and wounds reasonably well. Its also an option on one of our most useful vehicles the BigT. For 200 points you could field 3 easily enough, they do have a reduced transport capacity at 6 models when given the supa-skorcha, so you'd need small units inside. MANz missile, Kommando's with 2 BS's (for snap shooting), or simply keep the supa-skorcha only on the 2nd and 3rd within the squadron, loading the front with the full boyz squad.

As for overwatch, I like to use deff-coptas to eat the overwatch. BS2 or full BS overwatch is great but also useless when used against a 1 model unit.

Flamer based weapons would be the answer. Personally, flamebelcha on the Stompa or scrap shells of killkrusha. Supa skorcha works too. Now if you want the range with the flamers, Burnas with the piple line. 4+ cover and torrent flamer. If they try to assault you, every burna is a power weapon.

2+ re-rollable cover save if near the darkshroud. Twin-linked plasma shooting, ability to buff with librarians on bikes, good cc ability (corvus hammers), skilled rider (so no dangerous terrain tests), overwatch shenanigans (land speeder detachment).

In order to have a Libby on bike, they need either a regular CAD (so 2 troop tax) or play Unbound. If they go unbound, they can't benefit from the formation bonus from the speeder support squad.

40pts a piece for the Blacknight. Twin-link is great, I have to give you that. +1 S rending is also good. They have decent nbr of base attack, agreed. No dificult terrain is almost irrelevant anyway (the +1 jink matter tho). Ok ok... they are tough. But we aren't here to cry on how strong they are. We are trying to figure out how to beat them. And on a decent board (with enough terrain, as it should be) a Tide or variant will have a good chance at winning. You only need about 1 swing with a PK to hurt a squad enough (if not wiped) to negate all it's power. A tide can be protect by Painboy, KFF and terrain to secure an advance. They have a large enough footprint to cover most of the board. (at 1500+pts that is). Also, if you go blitz brigade, that will make you able to charge Turn 2 with around 80boyz. People would say ''they are bike so they can run around my BW and hit the rear' but in truth, with 5 BW, if it happen, the RW dude probably just lost a squad (around 200-250pts if those are BW). Just need to ask the other guy what weapon he has on his bike squad before unpacking your 5 BW (because I had people who misteriously went from Grav to Melta in the past). Also, in both list, you have enought points for either Lootas to force jink from afar, or for Flame buggy to harass them and distract while the Tide or Wagon approach.