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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
running huge units of cultists as troops anyway.

Nobody does this anymore. They're merely used to fulfill the minimum Troop requirement to buy more of the good units from the codex.

For the most part, but having bodies can be useful. Bonus points if you run full squads in the helcult formation

Obsec wins games from time to time. Especially vs decurion.

I have to be 'that guy'. How are people running Cypher in a CSM list...? He isn't in the current book. Or was he FAQ'd in, or is there some other book I'm unaware of that allows it.

 koooaei wrote:
Obsec wins games from time to time. Especially vs decurion.

As someone going into tournaments with Decurion, Objective Secured does not win games enough to build a list around it. I carry enough firepower to not care, and my list doesn't even run Wraiths!

Melevolence wrote:
I have to be 'that guy'. How are people running Cypher in a CSM list...? He isn't in the current book. Or was he FAQ'd in, or is there some other book I'm unaware of that allows it.

His dataslate allows it. He even lets you infiltrate chosen

SirSweetroll wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
I have to be 'that guy'. How are people running Cypher in a CSM list...? He isn't in the current book. Or was he FAQ'd in, or is there some other book I'm unaware of that allows it.

His dataslate allows it. He even lets you infiltrate chosen

Hmmm. And you get his slate with purchase or is it on their website?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Obsec wins games from time to time. Especially vs decurion.

As someone going into tournaments with Decurion, Objective Secured does not win games enough to build a list around it. I carry enough firepower to not care, and my list doesn't even run Wraiths!

Well, first of all, the list we're talking about is based around mellee and obsec means much more to a squad that's operating close and personal rather than a shooty one. I can tell it for sure as i play footslogging orks. It does not come up 100% of the time but it does help to get a couple VP here and there and not allow the opponent do it provided you're good with positioning.

Secondly, we're talking about csm here. What's the tradeout for necrons if they want to go for decurion? They still get great units, powerfun RP bonus and loose obsec. What about csm? You're loosing obsec to get...what exactly? MoS lord + retinue ain't much worse than MoN lord + retinue since your big marine squad's gona take the beating instead of the secondary squad anyway. And fearless is a big deal.

Now i want to point out that if your squad's gona get fearless by other means, like Fabius or fearless indep, go for regular marines. And that's solely cause of meltaguns.

Melevolence wrote:

SirSweetroll wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
I have to be 'that guy'. How are people running Cypher in a CSM list...? He isn't in the current book. Or was he FAQ'd in, or is there some other book I'm unaware of that allows it.

His dataslate allows it. He even lets you infiltrate chosen

Hmmm. And you get his slate with purchase or is it on their website?

http://www.3plusplus.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2745&p=4167#p4167
Not sure, I found it here

Ok I actually counted it. Definitely not tier 1 but might catch some opponents off guard.

1850 - Cypher tricks/Slaaneshi blob

HQ:

Huron Blackheart
Fabulous Bile

Troops:

20 x CSM with CCW, MoS, Icon of Excess, power fist, 2 x meltaguns
20 x Chaos cultists, 2 x flamers

Fast:

10 x Chaos Bikers, MoS, Icon of excess, 2 x meltaguns, powerfist/lightning claw

Cypher's formation:

Cypher
6 x Chaos Chosen, 5 x meltaguns
6 x Chaos Chosen, 5 x meltaguns
6 x Chaos Chosen, 5 x meltaguns

Cypher joins the CSM blob. Blob gets shrouded and ATSKNF from Cypher, +1 str and fearless from fabulous, infiltrate from Huron. 3+ armor, FnP, body count and shrouded should go a long way towards making the blob survive. On a second infiltrate roll, bikers go to infiltrate mode also to make use of their meltaguns more effectively. The cultists can stay behind and contest objectives. The chosen units also infiltrate to annoy and shrug fire off the big blob. Lots of meltaguns in case of tanks / IK's. One could change them for plasmaguns for better range but then this list will have a problem opening tanks and the chosen units will go far too expensive.

I think this is as stong (Str 5) ,durable (3+, FnP, shrouded) and agile (infiltrate, ini 5) you can make your 20 man CSM blob. You waste a lot of points on HQs, but these are pretty killy HQs that can join your blob and add to the punch of the unit.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Ok I actually counted it. Definitely not tier 1 but might catch some opponents off guard.

1850 - Cypher tricks/Slaaneshi blob

HQ:

Huron Blackheart
Fabulous Bile

Troops:

20 x CSM with CCW, MoS, Icon of Excess, power fist, 2 x meltaguns
20 x Chaos cultists, 2 x flamers

Fast:

10 x Chaos Bikers, MoS, Icon of excess, 2 x meltaguns, powerfist/lightning claw

Cypher's formation:

Cypher
6 x Chaos Chosen, 5 x meltaguns
6 x Chaos Chosen, 5 x meltaguns
6 x Chaos Chosen, 5 x meltaguns

Cypher joins the CSM blob. Blob gets shrouded and ATSKNF from Cypher, +1 str and fearless from fabulous, infiltrate from Huron. 3+ armor, FnP, body count and shrouded should go a long way towards making the blob survive. On a second infiltrate roll, bikers go to infiltrate mode also to make use of their meltaguns more effectively. The cultists can stay behind and contest objectives. The chosen units also infiltrate to annoy and shrug fire off the big blob. Lots of meltaguns in case of tanks / IK's. One could change them for plasmaguns for better range but then this list will have a problem opening tanks and the chosen units will go far too expensive.

I think this is as stong (Str 5) ,durable (3+, FnP, shrouded) and agile (infiltrate, ini 5) you can make your 20 man CSM blob. You waste a lot of points on HQs, but these are pretty killy HQs that can join your blob and add to the punch of the unit.

I actually wrote a list very similar to this in the army list section I didn't use bikes though, I think I used the Helcult formation for extra bodies. I just need 15 meltaguns