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I also believe Grav is killing the game. It's never healthy for a game when you have a mechanics (armor save, Hull points, Toughness, armor value) and then have something that not only outright ignores all of that, but is spammable. Of course it's going to be the auto-include option for all of TFGs.

Now, granted, the reason GW came up with grav was to answer the astounding amount of 2+/3+ MCs that were coming out. Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, ext. But, that counter is so hard, that Tyranids cry in the corner, C'tans remain unusable, and it begs the question "Why bring anything big and scary at all?".

Too many shots for the cost and free reroll to wound. Aside from the fect that rerolling dice is plain stupid (there is a reason this is a dice based game, to have a luck factor embedded, if you allow rerolls then you are removing the dice factor, and then why play with dice in the first place? But apart from free rerolls, it's just too many shots. Salvo rules is laughable because everybody is putting them in relentless platforms. 5 shots that are awesomely good against 90% of the game range should not cost 45 pts, especially when a lascannon costs 20 for only one shot.

Grav makes plasma and lascannons obsolete, makes krak missiles silly comparable (same points gives you 3 kraks vs 5 grav shots). Also range doesn't matter because bikes and because drop pods on the centurions. The ap2, toughness ignoring and vehicle killing is the icing on top of the fondue.

If grav did not work on vehicles (or if it did just the single hull point without the immobilize) AND got up in price by 15 pts at least, then it would still be crazy good but at least it would be manageable.

Oh and the stupidity about the MC's needs to stop. Not all armies have WK's, in fact all other MC's except for the WK (which is a gargantuan, not a monstrous) . Most other MC's sit at a T6, 4-6 wounds with a 3+ armor and no kind of any other save whatsoever. Unless it's flying, the Monstrous creature is not good, and it does not justify the designing of the grav weaponry.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Too many shots for the cost and free reroll to wound. Aside from the fect that rerolling dice is plain stupid (there is a reason this is a dice based game, to have a luck factor embedded, if you allow rerolls then you are removing the dice factor, and then why play with dice in the first place? But apart from free rerolls, it's just too many shots. Salvo rules is laughable because everybody is putting them in relentless platforms. 5 shots that are awesomely good against 90% of the game range should not cost 45 pts, especially when a lascannon costs 20 for only one shot.

Grav makes plasma and lascannons obsolete, makes krak missiles silly comparable (same points gives you 3 kraks vs 5 grav shots). Also range doesn't matter because bikes and because drop pods on the centurions. The ap2, toughness ignoring and vehicle killing is the icing on top of the fondue.

If grav did not work on vehicles (or if it did just the single hull point without the immobilize) AND got up in price by 15 pts at least, then it would still be crazy good but at least it would be manageable.

Oh and the stupidity about the MC's needs to stop. Not all armies have WK's, in fact all other MC's except for the WK (which is a gargantuan, not a monstrous) . Most other MC's sit at a T6, 4-6 wounds with a 3+ armor and no kind of any other save whatsoever. Unless it's flying, the Monstrous creature is not good, and it does not justify the designing of the grav weaponry.

I always think to myself "Why do you need to roll dice when everything you have is BS5+ and Twin-linked?". The answer is, you don't. You have successfully removed the random factor in this dice game.

Well I run my grav cannons on drop podded in non-skyhammer devastators so 35pts is as much as I'm willing to pay for the things.

Its already 15pts more expensive than a lascannon! How much do what the stupid things to cost?

I say drop plasma guns and cannons 10pts and maybe bring the grav gun to 20 and the cannon to 40.

That way you look at your list and go" hmmm..... I could have 4 plasma cannons or one grav-cannon..."

 Jayden63 wrote:
What I find amusing is that for ages people have cried that Terminators should be tougher, harder, more worth it, etc. But what does GW do? They supply the most common army a high rate of fire weapon that easily destroys terminators. Hit on 3, wound on 2s, Yeah... that makes people want to take those 40 point bullet magnets.

Kind of a non issue, though, since terminators were already dumped out of most lists back in 5th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I also believe Grav is killing the game. It's never healthy for a game when you have a mechanics (armor save, Hull points, Toughness, armor value) and then have something that not only outright ignores all of that, but is spammable. Of course it's going to be the auto-include option for all of TFGs.

Now, granted, the reason GW came up with grav was to answer the astounding amount of 2+/3+ MCs that were coming out. Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, ext. But, that counter is so hard, that Tyranids cry in the corner, C'tans remain unusable, and it begs the question "Why bring anything big and scary at all?".

It's a gear check for your opponent. Plus, Eldar can shred the grav units with scatterlasers before they get in range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Too many shots for the cost and free reroll to wound. Aside from the fect that rerolling dice is plain stupid (there is a reason this is a dice based game, to have a luck factor embedded, if you allow rerolls then you are removing the dice factor, and then why play with dice in the first place? But apart from free rerolls, it's just too many shots. Salvo rules is laughable because everybody is putting them in relentless platforms. 5 shots that are awesomely good against 90% of the game range should not cost 45 pts, especially when a lascannon costs 20 for only one shot.

Grav makes plasma and lascannons obsolete, makes krak missiles silly comparable (same points gives you 3 kraks vs 5 grav shots). Also range doesn't matter because bikes and because drop pods on the centurions. The ap2, toughness ignoring and vehicle killing is the icing on top of the fondue.

If grav did not work on vehicles (or if it did just the single hull point without the immobilize) AND got up in price by 15 pts at least, then it would still be crazy good but at least it would be manageable.

Oh and the stupidity about the MC's needs to stop. Not all armies have WK's, in fact all other MC's except for the WK (which is a gargantuan, not a monstrous) . Most other MC's sit at a T6, 4-6 wounds with a 3+ armor and no kind of any other save whatsoever. Unless it's flying, the Monstrous creature is not good, and it does not justify the designing of the grav weaponry.

I always think to myself "Why do you need to roll dice when everything you have is BS5+ and Twin-linked?". The answer is, you don't. You have successfully removed the random factor in this dice game.

As a Starcraft player, I support removing as much randomness as possible!

Martel732 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I also believe Grav is killing the game. It's never healthy for a game when you have a mechanics (armor save, Hull points, Toughness, armor value) and then have something that not only outright ignores all of that, but is spammable. Of course it's going to be the auto-include option for all of TFGs.

Now, granted, the reason GW came up with grav was to answer the astounding amount of 2+/3+ MCs that were coming out. Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, ext. But, that counter is so hard, that Tyranids cry in the corner, C'tans remain unusable, and it begs the question "Why bring anything big and scary at all?".

It's a gear check for your opponent. Plus, Eldar can shred the grav units with scatterlasers before they get in range.

Not necessarily. Anyone who's anyone just runs them in Drop pods, so they'll shred the bikes before they can even do anything, or make them jink, which limits their offensive output.

Contrary to popular belief, there are ways to counter Scatriders.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Well I run my grav cannons on drop podded in non-skyhammer devastators so 35pts is as much as I'm willing to pay for the things.

Its already 15pts more expensive than a lascannon! How much do what the stupid things to cost?

I say drop plasma guns and cannons 10pts and maybe bring the grav gun to 20 and the cannon to 40.

That way you look at your list and go" hmmm..... I could have 4 plasma cannons or one grav-cannon..."

Are we actually talking about the same game here? Just because you play your gravs in the worst way possible does not mean they are even in the slightest way justified. If someone is paying 250+ pts for a monster or an equivalent costed tank, you should not be able to oneshot it first turn from point blank range by paying the same points. Because:
1. You get to reliable deep strike without a reserve roll (drop pod),
2. your unit is left unharmed while their is evaporated.
3. you can kill it regardless of LoS or any kind of save mechanism because monsters do not have nearly decent saves,
4. none should be able to wipe out 250+ cost units just with a single unit in a single round. Other people ALSO want to actually move their models on the table for at least a turn, deploying something just to put it back into the case without even touching it in between is not fun.
5. You can do all the above WHILE playing Grav in the worst possible way possible. If you play it as a skyhammer you can one shot up to two 250 pt monsters with the same unit in a single turn and your 250 pt deepstriking unit can also actually one shot a 1000 pt hierophant bio titan before it even gets a chance to move. And THAT's plain stupid.

Also advocating that Grav should be cheaper because you play it wrong is like me demanding that I should get a Mercedes sedan for 100 euros because all I want to do with it is make it as a home for my cat. And then you try to justify reducing the cost of Grav by reducing the cost on all special weapons as well so that one should get more choices on how to use it and therefore play less grav? What are you even talking about?

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Well I run my grav cannons on drop podded in non-skyhammer devastators so 35pts is as much as I'm willing to pay for the things.

Its already 15pts more expensive than a lascannon! How much do what the stupid things to cost?

I say drop plasma guns and cannons 10pts and maybe bring the grav gun to 20 and the cannon to 40.

That way you look at your list and go" hmmm..... I could have 4 plasma cannons or one grav-cannon..."

Are we actually talking about the same game here? Just because you play your gravs in the worst way possible does not mean they are even in the slightest way justified. If someone is paying 250+ pts for a monster or an equivalent costed tank, you should not be able to oneshot it first turn from point blank range by paying the same points. Because:
1. You get to reliable deep strike without a reserve roll (drop pod),
2. your unit is left unharmed while their is evaporated.
3. you can kill it regardless of LoS or any kind of save mechanism because monsters do not have nearly decent saves,
4. none should be able to wipe out 250+ cost units just with a single unit in a single round. Other people ALSO want to actually move their models on the table for at least a turn, deploying something just to put it back into the case without even touching it in between is not fun.
5. You can do all the above WHILE playing Grav in the worst possible way possible. If you play it as a skyhammer you can one shot up to two 250 pt monsters with the same unit in a single turn and your 250 pt deepstriking unit can also actually one shot a 1000 pt hierophant bio titan before it even gets a chance to move. And THAT's plain stupid.

Also advocating that Grav should be cheaper because you play it wrong is like me demanding that I should get a Mercedes sedan for 100 euros because all I want to do with it is make it as a home for my cat. And then you try to justify reducing the cost of Grav by reducing the cost on all special weapons as well so that one should get more choices on how to use it and therefore play less grav? What are you even talking about?

Wtf bro?
Someone was saying that they wanted to significantly raise the price. I was saying that not everyone runs their grav with dickery. I NEVER said to make it cheaper.

I said you could INCREASE the cost to 20 pts for a grav GUN and to 40pts for a grav CANNON while also simultaneously DECREASING the price of PLASMA which was the original TAC gun that sucks in comparison.

grav is to good, yeah, but it's really situational. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Half of Tau, 'Nids all mitigate the to wound rolls. I feel there are more broken things to complain about than how "amazing" grav weaponry is.

Just increasing the point cost slightly doesn't fix things though. The problem is complicated because there are crappy ways of running grav cannons, and there are completely broken ways. Increasing points will make grav devs even more worthless while only making a grav cent player pay a small amount more. The change has to come from the basic mechanics.

Now, I hate grav (I basically hate anytime something unnecessary is invented out of whole cloth and added to the fluff purely to sell new toys). I hate the fact that marines are suddenly carrying the kind of crazy advanced weapon you would normally associate with admech, and I hate the fact that in gameplay terms it has more or less supplanted a lot of iconic but underperforming special and heavy weapons. It's also annoying that my friend immediately bought and built a moderate number of grav units when they came out, so even trying to play oldhammer I would have to work in some kind of rules for them. All that being said, they're here to stay, so here's how I would fix them:

Reduce rate of fire on grav cannons by 1. Grav now only causes an immobilized result on vehicles if the vehicle is not already immobilized.

Points can stay the same. I think this would make grav less generally useful without neutering it at its primary role.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I also believe Grav is killing the game. It's never healthy for a game when you have a mechanics (armor save, Hull points, Toughness, armor value) and then have something that not only outright ignores all of that, but is spammable. Of course it's going to be the auto-include option for all of TFGs.

Now, granted, the reason GW came up with grav was to answer the astounding amount of 2+/3+ MCs that were coming out. Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, ext. But, that counter is so hard, that Tyranids cry in the corner, C'tans remain unusable, and it begs the question "Why bring anything big and scary at all?".

It's a gear check for your opponent. Plus, Eldar can shred the grav units with scatterlasers before they get in range.

Not necessarily. Anyone who's anyone just runs them in Drop pods, so they'll shred the bikes before they can even do anything, or make them jink, which limits their offensive output.

Contrary to popular belief, there are ways to counter Scatriders.

The Eldar player is doing it wrong then. Use your WS and WK to screen your bikes.

 Brennonjw wrote:
grav is to good, yeah, but it's really situational. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Half of Tau, 'Nids all mitigate the to wound rolls. I feel there are more broken things to complain about than how "amazing" grav weaponry is.

Umm, wait, how? Eldar have massed 3+ saves and a fair bit of T6/T8 units. And everything else is like shooting AP2 bolt guns. Then of course, Grav completely says "F you" to the Serpent shield, because it doesn't care. If someone is playing a Dark Eldar list worth a damn, they'll be using Coven units. So yeah, Grotesques aren't the ideal target for Grav weaponry, but Talos/Kronos engines are. And of course, they'll kill vehicles the same. And what half of Tau mitigates the wounds? Kroot? Oh boy, Grav is wounding them on 6s. Good thing Bolt guns wound them on 3s with no saves. And everything else Tau would die. Crisis suits, Riptides, Commanders, Broadsides, ext. Those are what people normally use.

And Nids? Are we talking competitive or casual? Competitive, you'll only see Mawlocs and Flyrants. Mawlocs will die in droves to Grav, and Flyrants, if hit, will die to them, or be hampered by jinking. Casual, as in Tervigons, or literally any other MC, will keel over at the site of Grav, unless they invested in Venomthropes. In which case, shoot them first. That's 6 Space Marines to chew through (5+ cover from screening, + Shrouded = 3+ cover). Then they're boned.

Grav is pretty much universally good. There is very little, if any, mitigating it.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I also believe Grav is killing the game. It's never healthy for a game when you have a mechanics (armor save, Hull points, Toughness, armor value) and then have something that not only outright ignores all of that, but is spammable. Of course it's going to be the auto-include option for all of TFGs.

Now, granted, the reason GW came up with grav was to answer the astounding amount of 2+/3+ MCs that were coming out. Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, ext. But, that counter is so hard, that Tyranids cry in the corner, C'tans remain unusable, and it begs the question "Why bring anything big and scary at all?".

. I feel the same way my friend...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Too many shots for the cost and free reroll to wound. Aside from the fect that rerolling dice is plain stupid (there is a reason this is a dice based game, to have a luck factor embedded, if you allow rerolls then you are removing the dice factor, and then why play with dice in the first place? But apart from free rerolls, it's just too many shots. Salvo rules is laughable because everybody is putting them in relentless platforms. 5 shots that are awesomely good against 90% of the game range should not cost 45 pts, especially when a lascannon costs 20 for only one shot.

Grav makes plasma and lascannons obsolete, makes krak missiles silly comparable (same points gives you 3 kraks vs 5 grav shots). Also range doesn't matter because bikes and because drop pods on the centurions. The ap2, toughness ignoring and vehicle killing is the icing on top of the fondue.

If grav did not work on vehicles (or if it did just the single hull point without the immobilize) AND got up in price by 15 pts at least, then it would still be crazy good but at least it would be manageable.

Oh and the stupidity about the MC's needs to stop. Not all armies have WK's, in fact all other MC's except for the WK (which is a gargantuan, not a monstrous) . Most other MC's sit at a T6, 4-6 wounds with a 3+ armor and no kind of any other save whatsoever. Unless it's flying, the Monstrous creature is not good, and it does not justify the designing of the grav weaponry.

Like he said, if you plan to play vs WKs and Flyrants fine... Vs the rest ? Lets says its not very friendly haha

alex0911 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I also believe Grav is killing the game. It's never healthy for a game when you have a mechanics (armor save, Hull points, Toughness, armor value) and then have something that not only outright ignores all of that, but is spammable. Of course it's going to be the auto-include option for all of TFGs.

Now, granted, the reason GW came up with grav was to answer the astounding amount of 2+/3+ MCs that were coming out. Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, ext. But, that counter is so hard, that Tyranids cry in the corner, C'tans remain unusable, and it begs the question "Why bring anything big and scary at all?".

. I feel the same way my friend...

Glad to hear.

However, to be fair to the people who defend Grav, it's not the only thing digging 40k's grave.

Here's my issue with the Grav hate, it doesn't ignore game mechanics, it penalizes one dimensional reliance on a given mechanic. If you're running tons of 2+ armor, that's kinda silly. 2+ is great for a ton things (I play Deathwing and GK, so back off already)... but its not the easy button (and neither is grav).

Now you're forced to run a "bubble wrap" for your 2+ units... with cheaper and more numerable units. You should have all seen this coming the second allies dropped. Now SM are better with AM or scouts or Admech spam or an Inquisitor or just need to pay attention to and actually use cover now. Grav is simply forcing MEQ and MCs to use game mechanics they have spent so much time ignoring... to me, that's good for the game, not bad.

and if you think grav has removed the MCs from the game, I give you the tournament scene... and if you thought one unit type (MCs) would stay on the top of the hill for more than one edition... you've not paid attention to 40k.

Grav is not so spammable that any of the horde options can't solve it... and even staying fluffy, really every major faction with a full sized codex has options. Riptides and Wraithknights are a good as they ever were... if you're leaving them in the breeze so that drop Grav or bike grav is getting you and you're unable to pay them back in kind, I don't like saying it, but please post your list/tactics and that issue can be addressed, because all the serious Grav threats have pretty straight forward counters.

Chaos Marines are likely the most outright auto-boned against Grav honestly... Within just their own codex, they've got Cultists as their only bubble wrap option, or they can take an over costed DP sans armour for a 250+pts FMC who'll be relying pretty much on just a 5++ for protection. (and anyways, Codex Daemons DP's are light years beyond anything a CSM DP can bring to the table...)

The entire codex is overall slow, relying entirely on Rhinos & Bikers for speed. It lacks any actual weight of fire abilities (imho, the biggest problem right now for Chaos Marines). And is then finally buried by generally being slightly overcosted across the board while also lacking in the Battle Bros department, unless you can get your hands on IA13. (which can be highly problematic for a majority of players)

Grav heavy lists vs. Chaos Marines is pretty much no different than facing Decurion 'Crons and Kraftworld Eldar.

Grav weapons don't re-roll failed to wound rolls. Grav-amps specifically say re-roll the result. That's means you have to reroll all the dice, successful and failed.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:


That way you look at your list and go" hmmm..... I could have 4 plasma cannons or one grav-cannon..."

4 of those will do nothing and one grav will kill just as much. The only way for grav not to be used is either if there was a better weapons with better kill ratio, and as of yet the only better ones are D weapons mounted on eldar, or if the cost is so high all units using them would be worthless. That won't happen either.

Grav is simply forcing MEQ and MCs to use game mechanics they have spent so much time ignoring... to me, that's good for the game, not bad.

I like how you ignore what effect grav has on armies like IG. where there is no way to bubble wrap against drop pods and multi shot grav units kill tanks and transports even with cover.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Chaos Marines are likely the most outright auto-boned against Grav honestly... Within just their own codex, they've got Cultists as their only bubble wrap option, or they can take an over costed DP sans armour for a 250+pts FMC who'll be relying pretty much on just a 5++ for protection. (and anyways, Codex Daemons DP's are light years beyond anything a CSM DP can bring to the table...)

The entire codex is overall slow, relying entirely on Rhinos & Bikers for speed. It lacks any actual weight of fire abilities (imho, the biggest problem right now for Chaos Marines). And is then finally buried by generally being slightly overcosted across the board while also lacking in the Battle Bros department, unless you can get your hands on IA13. (which can be highly problematic for a majority of players)

Grav heavy lists vs. Chaos Marines is pretty much no different than facing Decurion 'Crons and Kraftworld Eldar.

CSM needs a new codex... Grav guns just give you one more reason for a new book haha

To the person who said mcs are not useful unless they can fly my GuO would like to angrily disagree with you there good sir

 Lobukia wrote:
2+ is great for a ton things (I play Deathwing and GK, so back off already)

There's already am issue with GW writers overvaluing Terminators in the first place, though. They took a step in the right direction with the major price cut on Vanilla Terminators, but Deathwing Terminators (all varieties) and Paladins are VERY overcosted.

Dman137 wrote:
Grav weapons don't re-roll failed to wound rolls. Grav-amps specifically say re-roll the result. That's means you have to reroll all the dice, successful and failed.

Whoever told you that eldar boy lied.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
2+ is great for a ton things (I play Deathwing and GK, so back off already)

There's already am issue with GW writers overvaluing Terminators in the first place, though. They took a step in the right direction with the major price cut on Vanilla Terminators, but Deathwing Terminators (all varieties) and Paladins are VERY overcosted.

Agreed, I'd not say DW or GK Pallies are economic choices, but in a double wing list or so, my Termies almost always earn their points

Makumba wrote:

Grav is simply forcing MEQ and MCs to use game mechanics they have spent so much time ignoring... to me, that's good for the game, not bad.

I like how you ignore what effect grav has on armies like IG. where there is no way to bubble wrap against drop pods and multi shot grav units kill tanks and transports even with cover.

IG have tons of bubble wrap, in fact I use AM/IG units for bubble wrap in other lists (seriously, leave no spaces larger than 5" between units and drop pods can't show up... , I'm making assumptions on basic game mechanic understanding when posting here. Grav Cannons are trickier, but you should be able to get some cover and the fact that your foe can actually have an effective anti tank unit is hardly a symptom of a balance issue.

I agree in that there is to much Grav. A buddy said this the other day actually. "Plasma did what grav does now, grav just does it better" and honestly? Hes right. Grav is WAY to accessible. I would have been fine with it on Kataphron Destroyers (cuz Mechanicus) and on Cent Devastators. But combi Grav, Grav Devs, Gravs in Tac squads, its freakin everywhere and its downright excessive. Mrines pay for their 3+ armor, and it prety much counts for nothing now-a-days

 Grimmor wrote:
I agree in that there is to much Grav. A buddy said this the other day actually. "Plasma did what grav does now, grav just does it better" and honestly? Hes right. Grav is WAY to accessible. I would have been fine with it on Kataphron Destroyers (cuz Mechanicus) and on Cent Devastators. But combi Grav, Grav Devs, Gravs in Tac squads, its freakin everywhere and its downright excessive. Mrines pay for their 3+ armor, and it prety much counts for nothing now-a-days

The basic grav gun isn't a problem; move and you get two shots at 9", stand still and you get 3 at 18". It's how powerful grav becomes on Relentless platforms and how much firepower the grav cannon puts out.

Indeed, the basic Grav gun in things like Tac squads is largely pretty ok, it's priced high enough and has enough drawbacks to make it good but not the automatic choice over alternatives, though does rather unnecessarily basically duplicate the Plasma Gun's role, but balance-wise is pretty ok.

They start to become pretty much auto-take on Relentless biker units over other options, and the Grav Cannon's raw volume of fire (coupled with the rerolls from the entirely unnecessary Grav Amp) make it absurd.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:
I agree in that there is to much Grav. A buddy said this the other day actually. "Plasma did what grav does now, grav just does it better" and honestly? Hes right. Grav is WAY to accessible. I would have been fine with it on Kataphron Destroyers (cuz Mechanicus) and on Cent Devastators. But combi Grav, Grav Devs, Gravs in Tac squads, its freakin everywhere and its downright excessive. Mrines pay for their 3+ armor, and it prety much counts for nothing now-a-days

The basic grav gun isn't a problem; move and you get two shots at 9", stand still and you get 3 at 18". It's how powerful grav becomes on Relentless platforms and how much firepower the grav cannon puts out.

Thats valid. And i am aware that my Kataphrons are terrible offenders, but they are expensive, slow, and bad shots. Also its the Cult Mechanicus, if anyone deserves a crazy awesome weapon its those guys.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Grav weapons don't re-roll failed to wound rolls. Grav-amps specifically say re-roll the result. That's means you have to reroll all the dice, successful and failed.

Whoever told you that eldar boy lied.

Know one told me its in the rules lol go look it up and show me where it says you re-roll failed to wound rolls

Dman137 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Grav weapons don't re-roll failed to wound rolls. Grav-amps specifically say re-roll the result. That's means you have to reroll all the dice, successful and failed.

Whoever told you that eldar boy lied.

Know one told me its in the rules lol go look it up and show me where it says you re-roll failed to wound rolls

Each to-wound roll occurs in a single die, regardless of how many there are.

When the rulebook is talking about having to reroll everything, they're talking about things like Ld tests that are taken on mulutple dice (e.g. a 2d6 roll). A grav amp doesn't mean you have to reroll everything.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Grav weapons don't re-roll failed to wound rolls. Grav-amps specifically say re-roll the result. That's means you have to reroll all the dice, successful and failed.

Whoever told you that eldar boy lied.

Know one told me its in the rules lol go look it up and show me where it says you re-roll failed to wound rolls

Each to-wound roll occurs in a single die, regardless of how many there are.

When the rulebook is talking about having to reroll everything, they're talking about things like Ld tests that are taken on mulutple dice (e.g. a 2d6 roll). A grav amp doesn't mean you have to reroll everything.

This. So dboy, you're wrong.