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Alot of people are taken by surprise by how effectively you can wipe units and MCs if you line up some drop pods and rhinos carefully and tank shock them to death.

Turn 1 Sternguard drop pods. Turn 2 flying your Stormravens over top of the Sternguards. Friendly models can sit on friendly flyer bases. Enemies can't go within 1" of your flyer base. Enjoy your now unchargable Sternguard.

Similarly, you can deepstrike scouts (previously inside your Raven), on top of your own flyer base (Raven), and contest with obsec Scouts that are unchargable for a turn.

In some tournaments, Nova FAQ, obsec units inside the Raven give the Raven obsec (you have to hover :( ) But with the tactic mentioned above, you can fly 36", deepstrike object, and have the scouts be unchargable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Selym wrote:
1) Locate the opponent's favourite elite unit (that lacks invulns, costs a lot, and does not have more than T5)

2) Emperor's Champion, 15-man Crusader Squad, Land Raider Crusader.

3) Crush his hopes and dreams

4) Bulldoze the entire flank

Do elite units ever have no invulnerable saves and not T5? I play too much competitive lists to see those type of expensive units. There is always something giving them Invulns, FNPs, T5 majority, etc. =(

Saythings wrote:
But with the tactic mentioned above, you can fly 36", deepstrike object, and have the scouts be unchargable.

Wouldn't the scouts mishap and thus wipe themselves out if you attempt to deploy them on the stormraven's base?

I'm not even sure about the previous tactic anyway. Where does it say you can finish a move with bases overlapping?

Bases are not terrain.

Saythings wrote:

 Selym wrote:
1) Locate the opponent's favourite elite unit (that lacks invulns, costs a lot, and does not have more than T5)

2) Emperor's Champion, 15-man Crusader Squad, Land Raider Crusader.

3) Crush his hopes and dreams

4) Bulldoze the entire flank

Do elite units ever have no invulnerable saves and not T5? I play too much competitive lists to see those type of expensive units. There is always something giving them Invulns, FNPs, T5 majority, etc. =(

Lots of elite units will either have one of those, or a high damage output. So I either go for something that balances itself with a high damage output like Sternguard, or that has low numbers and makes durability its schtick, like TEQ's. When it comes to invulnerable saves, 5++ saves are fairly easy to pass through (lacking in the invuln department), and T5 is relativley easy to wound compared to T6+. I wouldn't worry too much about something like Plague Marines with this unit, as the EC is liable to kill a couple of them right off the bat, and the weight of attacks get the others down.

I like to run Priests with my large Sister squads. I'll run Jacobus as a warlord with an extra priest and twenty bolter girls. Jacobus as warlord gives the squad 5++, then with war hymns two chances for a reroll of armor/invul in CC, plus zealot and counter attack. The unit is an amazing tarpit that just won't go away. I like to get it in CC with most opponents assuming the I3, WS3 S3 T3 girls will just die like guardsmen.

 Iechine wrote:
Bases are not terrain.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I'm under the impression that a unit using the Deep Strike rules will misshap if they land on another unit (friend of foe). And landing on the Stormraven's base would count as landing on another unit. Thus the whole unit would take a mishap (which in the case of using the Stormraven's special deployment rule, would wipe the unit out I believe?).

Am I incorrect in the above?

Zimko wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Bases are not terrain.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I'm under the impression that a unit using the Deep Strike rules will misshap if they land on another unit (friend of foe). And landing on the Stormraven's base would count as landing on another unit. Thus the whole unit would take a mishap (which in the case of using the Stormraven's special deployment rule, would wipe the unit out I believe?).

Am I incorrect in the above?

Two things, I should have been more clear about. You are allowed to land underneath of a Friendly flyer. It's in the BRB. Only enemies aren't allowed to be within 1" away from your Flyer base. As long as your flyer is in the air, you can deepstrike directly underneath because it isn't a Deep Strike mishap. It is simply open terrain. The BRB says it's a mishap if you land on a friendly model, but you aren't landing ON a friendly model. You land underneath it.

If you wanted to argue that rule, you can deepstrike behind it, and then do your D6 run to get as many models undernearth of your flyer base as you can.

The flyer base isn't part of the model in any way. Only FMC adhere to base/modeling rules. Like foot in terrain for a 4+ ruin save, etc. The Flyers are all based off of measuring from the Hull and weapon distances (unless of course you land and become a fast skimmer). But I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying, if you are in the air, you can deepstrike or simply move under a flyer onto it's base. The reason the enemy can't assault you is because he can't go base-to-base with your infantry. He can, however, shoot the flyer and get a direct hit on the Crash and Burn rule. (Or more simply kill the scouts under the base with shooting/psychic powers)

Sorry for the mini rules "debate". I've used this tactic in a few small GTs and locally, and it's fairly straight forward and every judge/TO I've seen has agreed with it. Either way, just it only provides one turn of "cover" from assaults. Just a nice trick I picked up on trying to maximize the expensive Stormravens I bought XD

Yeah the whole 'unchargable units on a flyer base' thing does not sound right... If it does work that way, it just comes off really cheezy and lame. I'm all for making a strong list to be competitive, but when it comes to using loose wording to a non-sensical exploit thats not very cool.

Edit: Just saw you were using it in GT's and the like. If you're playing in a tournament then that makes total sense, gotta do what you can to give yourself an edge.

Saythings wrote:
Friendly models can sit on friendly flyer bases.

No they can't.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Saythings wrote:
Friendly models can sit on friendly flyer bases.

No they can't.

"Vehicle Section > Flyers > Flyers and Other Models > "Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it. Likewise, a Flyer can end its move over such models. However, when moving this way, enemy models must still remain 1 inch away from the base of the Flyer, and the Flyer cannot end its move with its base within 1 inch of other enemy models. "

Yes, they can. XD

Edit: My grammar, rip.

The fact i run a mechanised Nurgle army with no daemon engines in shocks some people
I normally run at 1500
Nurgle Lord with the brand
3 z 5 plague marines in rhinos
5 nurgle Terminators in a land raider
3 predators

But I plan to change it to
Nurgle Lord with power axe
2 X 7 plague marines in rhinos
5 nurgle chosen with 4 plasma guns upgraded to the ravagers in a rhino
3 predators
And the mayhem pack

Saythings wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Saythings wrote:
Friendly models can sit on friendly flyer bases.

No they can't.

"Vehicle Section > Flyers > Flyers and Other Models > "Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it. Likewise, a Flyer can end its move over such models. However, when moving this way, enemy models must still remain 1 inch away from the base of the Flyer, and the Flyer cannot end its move with its base within 1 inch of other enemy models. "

Yes, they can. XD

Edit: My grammar, rip.

That's not permission to move through the base that's permission to move under the model (such as under its wings since those extend pass the base)

I don't have my BRB on me at the moment but you are specifically denied from moving through a models base and the rule you quoted doesn't give you permission to ignore that

Haven't seen anything that denies me from doing that. Seems pretty straight forward in the Flyer (vehicle) section. Let me know through PM if you prefer. Wouldn't wanna derail this forum

You ignore the base unless you're embarking/disembarking from the Flyer or the Flyer is in CC, so stacking models onto it to avoid a charge isn't possible.

On topic though, I find that using Rhinos to block line of sight to certain models in an enemy unit is verry useful for sniping key models out when shooting.

Wow this guy. Definately wouldn't play you. And I doubt any real official and smart TO would ever grant you the ability to do that. I'd pack up my models and say dueces as you aren't the type of player I'd wanna play with by using a play on words to try and twist an obvious rule into something you wish it was to try and justify the cost of your expensive flier. If you can't afford it don't bring it. Don't make up rules to attempt to make it better.

Saythings wrote:
Turn 1 Sternguard drop pods. Turn 2 flying your Stormravens over top of the Sternguards. Friendly models can sit on friendly flyer bases. Enemies can't go within 1" of your flyer base. Enjoy your now unchargable Sternguard.

Similarly, you can deepstrike scouts (previously inside your Raven), on top of your own flyer base (Raven), and contest with obsec Scouts that are unchargable for a turn.

In some tournaments, Nova FAQ, obsec units inside the Raven give the Raven obsec (you have to hover :( ) But with the tactic mentioned above, you can fly 36", deepstrike object, and have the scouts be unchargable.
(

Whoa... I would snap off your flyer's base and then tell you that I can charge them... Have you ever really done that?

So much hate, hahahaha.

Relax, you keyboard heroes. I'm super friendly to play. I don't need to do this to win. I simply play the rules as I read them.

It was ruled this way in a small GT simply because the advanced rules superseded the basic rules. In the flyer section is says I can move under the flyer so I did. No one else could argue otherwise, so it was allowed. If you were going to throw a tantrum and "pack up your models" over your first rule debate in the existence of 40k, then good riddance. For anyone that would question it, I'll deploy behind the Raven.

And for the person that was questioning the cost of the model, I was referencing the 200 pts gunboat that isn't very strong to begin with.

Everyone needs to relax, I used the model and the ruling in my favor. Similar to how most people use Deathstars and Battle Brothers. If anything (or any ruling) ever bothers my opponent, I'll either roll for it, or let them have it. Hell, I don't need a win that badly XD XD

Thanks for the morning laugh though. Really appreciated. I also would have appreciated it over the PM I requested.

Saythings wrote:
I also would have appreciated it over the PM I requested.

PM's cost extra - and we're all too busy saving up for the next load of plastic crack

It's not really unexpected, but with my HH Death guard, my Praetor causes -2 Toughness in close combat, -1 within 6 inches, so his power maul IDs T:5 guys.

I run Harlequins and this tactic has worked wonders for me so far. 6 man troupe with warlord (starmist raiment and power sword) in a skyweaver, then two 5 man units in their own, both of those units have a shadowseer attached. One is ml1 with cegorach's eye rolling on phantasmancy, the other ml2 rolling on sanctic daemonology. First turn all three transports move up, the warlord's troupe gets out and both shadowseers disembark and join that unit. Veil of tears for the troupe and now I have the benefits of transport speed for harlequins as well as a minor blob of players gaining the benefits of veil of tears. That gives me a transport to give supporting fire for the blob/ chase objectives. Two other harassment units in their transports chasing down any flanking threats, and a very hard to kill block in the middle that threatens anything with av12 or less.

I have used the same 1500 point army list and fought tyranid, ultramarines (with about 350 points of free vehicles), grey knights, and chaos marines and it is currently undefeated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saythings wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Saythings wrote:
Friendly models can sit on friendly flyer bases.

No they can't.

"Vehicle Section > Flyers > Flyers and Other Models > "Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it. Likewise, a Flyer can end its move over such models. However, when moving this way, enemy models must still remain 1 inch away from the base of the Flyer, and the Flyer cannot end its move with its base within 1 inch of other enemy models. "

Yes, they can. XD

Edit: My grammar, rip.

Friendly models may move over the base, you can't end on it, if a flyer is in hiver mode you can charge the base because for vehicles if you can reach the base, you can reach the model. A model may not end its move on the base of another model isn't directly contradicted by the ability to move through the area a flyers base covers.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Friendly models may move over the base, you can't end on it, if a flyer is in hover mode you can charge the base because for vehicles if you can reach the base, you can reach the model. A model may not end its move on the base of another model isn't directly contradicted by the ability to move through the area a flyers base covers.

Perfect and concise explanation of the permissions granted for the flyer base rules. It's straight up not legal, which I suppose would make it a ver "Unexpected Tactic" . Nobody is 'hating' or being a 'keyboard hero'. It just sounds like your tactic is not legal and you're trying to defend it, and then resort to levity and act like it was no big deal when proven wrong.

I'm actually glad the responses were not PM's, since people reading this probably learned something on flyer rules and bases.

I saw this same discussions somewhere else recently and the guy kept trying to argue that you could get out of your flyer and land on the base but the disembarkation rules say you exit from the base.

Friendly models may move over the base, you can't end on it, if a flyer is in hiver mode you can charge the base because for vehicles if you can reach the base, you can reach the model. A model may not end its move on the base of another model isn't directly contradicted by the ability to move through the area a flyers base covers.

Exactly, Jump infantry may move over other models, but that doesn't mean I can stack them on top of one another. If what you said was legal, then when I assault I could get everyone in by stacking them, and meaning they don't need to charge the further models in a unit.

Permission to move through ( or under) is not permission to land on models. Otherwise wraiths would just be more op.

how mean is it to move a monolith on top of an objective since objectives aren't really 'things' like units or other models?

(have not done this myself but have seen this idea posted in other placed before)

Oberron wrote:
how mean is it to move a monolith on top of an objective since objectives aren't really 'things' like units or other models?

(have not done this myself but have seen this idea posted in other placed before)

I wouldn't think it would be any worse than parking a land raider there-anti-tank weapons would make short work of it if the opponent concentrates his AT weapons on it (or not; I don't know that much about monoliths other than AV14).

One thing an opponent of mine did in a tournament recently is put a Skyshield Landing Pad on top of an objective, and a Lynx on the pad. That thing was tough to shift, but I got it done (final hull point taken by a sniper scout!).

3 batteries of basilisks.
2 Platoons of just infantry guardsman (with conscripts)
1 LORD commissar to tie it together.
Invincible Cannons of Looming Doom
surrounded by cheap meat shields that are ld 10 and stubborn

Drink opponents tears until he realises that you cant move to cap objectives at all

not that it matters when S9 ap3 pie plates of doom are coming at you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Oberron wrote:
how mean is it to move a monolith on top of an objective since objectives aren't really 'things' like units or other models?

(have not done this myself but have seen this idea posted in other placed before)

I wouldn't think it would be any worse than parking a land raider there-anti-tank weapons would make short work of it if the opponent concentrates his AT weapons on it (or not; I don't know that much about monoliths other than AV14).

One thing an opponent of mine did in a tournament recently is put a Skyshield Landing Pad on top of an objective, and a Lynx on the pad. That thing was tough to shift, but I got it done (final hull point taken by a sniper scout!).

but what if the monolith is wrecked. im not sure how big it is but if enemy units cannot get with 2', no objective for them

 Emperor Pigeon wrote:
3 batteries of basilisks.
2 Platoons of just infantry guardsman (with conscripts)
1 LORD commissar to tie it together.
Invincible Cannons of Looming Doom
surrounded by cheap meat shields that are ld 10 and stubborn

Drink opponents tears until he realises that you cant move to cap objectives at all

not that it matters when S9 ap3 pie plates of doom are coming at you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Oberron wrote:
how mean is it to move a monolith on top of an objective since objectives aren't really 'things' like units or other models?

(have not done this myself but have seen this idea posted in other placed before)

I wouldn't think it would be any worse than parking a land raider there-anti-tank weapons would make short work of it if the opponent concentrates his AT weapons on it (or not; I don't know that much about monoliths other than AV14).

One thing an opponent of mine did in a tournament recently is put a Skyshield Landing Pad on top of an objective, and a Lynx on the pad. That thing was tough to shift, but I got it done (final hull point taken by a sniper scout!).

but what if the monolith is wrecked. im not sure how big it is but if enemy units cannot get with 2', no objective for them

if placed directly on an objective that is as big as a small base there are only two places that are within the 3 inches the steps by the door on the monolith and the back inbetween the corners, the sides are to far away and it is way to tall to claim by being on top of it

 Emperor Pigeon wrote:
but what if the monolith is wrecked. im not sure how big it is but if enemy units cannot get with 2', no objective for them

Wrecked vehicles are just dangerous terrain and not an enemy model any more so they can get within base contact of a wrecked monolith

I haven't actually got around to running it, as I haven't built a bike Libby For my BA but the idea of fishing for Iron Arm with a force stave would give you a S10 attacks on a T8 platform, which would be nifty. Not optimised by any means , but I think it'd be fun.

D