Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What other loadouts have people had success with?
Equally important, what loadouts have just failed miserably?

Unfortunately, avoiding being ID'd is too important in the game today. You basically always want a Storm Shields and a Bike, and then an AP2 weapon (though occasionally you can get away with a Relic Blade).

I used to do one with Pedro and his Centurion retinue with a Power Fist, Wrath, and that fancy armor for the 2++ (I had points to burn trust me).

Possibly a CM in Terminator armor, Powerfist and Teeth of Terra. Get some TH/SS Terminators to LoS for him when hit by something that is AP2, and the rampage would let you cut through lots of MEQ. Terminator armor is mainly for firing his orbital bombardment when he and his retinue come in.

Another combo may be Captain arming grav pistol and burnning blade, accompanied by some vanguard or some other assault unit that can take stormshield to LoS for him, then go monster hunting, concussive then blinding make the MC WS1 I1

Try the Raptors chapter master for an shooty version if your wanting to avoid a cc build.

Eternal Warrior isn't essential if you have a good squad to hide in, one that doesn't need your captain to tank hits. You don't need to shunt close combat hits to the Captain if your squad is tough enough to take them (Honor Guard, Terminators, certain Command Squad builds), if the rest of your army is trying to get into combat too so the enemy can't direct all of his attacks against your captain's unit, or if you're cagey enough to pick and choose your fights carefully and only fight things you can kill quickly. Skipping out on the Shield Eternal can save you points, and a cheap captain well-used can do almost the same amount of killing as a tricked-out one.

I find a 2+ save, however you get it, to be very useful for absorbing shots. I also like to have a weapon with a lot of punch - pretty much anything other than a standard power weapon will do. I like the Power Fist especially, as you can threaten a wide range of targets, but lightning claws and all of the special swords work as well. It all depends on what the rest of his units provides and what they need from him.

Basically, I equip my captain as part of a squad, not as an individual. I try to keep him under 150 points so I can bring more stuff to the table. The captain I use the most often has Artificer Armor, a Power Fist, and a Plasma Pistol. I put him in a command squad equipped with some power weapons, storm shields, and an Apothecary. The captain soaks up incoming shots, the shield guys protect him with Look Out Sir!, and the Apothecary keeps everyone healthy. The mass of power weapons deals good damage at Initiative 4, and the two power fists in the squad clean up what's left.

TDA ToT and powerfist is decent

But practically any non EW/T5 captain now has to be part of an all out assault army, if he isn;t he'll be focused down easily as the obvious main threat

A captain with just a relic blade is my go to when points are tight. Hardly a CC powerhouse and must avoid str.8 but with good stats can be a useful beatstick and I can place him in anything from a tac squad or a dedicated CC unit depending on the list.

You'll want a Powerfist or Relic Blade at minimum. Artificer Armor and/or a Storm Shield helps.

More importantly, you'll need a delivery mechanism. The main advantage of bikes and jump packs is that you are an independent operator who can freely roam around the table. A footslogging captain will need to tag along on someone else's transport (preferable a Land Raider or Drop Pod).

It's also best if that captain isn't actually you Warlord, as he's no-where near as survivable as Smashbane.

Don't discount the named characters, a lot of them are Captains and can be used in Gladius Strike Forces.

I think there's really no added bonus to either a captain or chapter master that isn't built as a beat stick. They don't really offer any other benefit besides more wounds, more attacks and better weapon options.

It's more just what you want them to do.

What I have been thinking of doing is a TDA or Armor Indominatus, SE and a PF or TH on a CM with Iron Hands tactics. Put him with a foot command squad with storm shields and melta guns in a drop pod and use them as a big distraction and speed bump for a demi company.

 More Dakka wrote:
I think there's really no added bonus to either a captain or chapter master that isn't built as a beat stick. They don't really offer any other benefit besides more wounds, more attacks and better weapon options.
.

As others have mentioned, I think the big bonus is saving points by not having so many points in a single model.
It's also true that against many targets like MEQs or light armor, there isn't a difference between a 220 point build and a 140 point build.

Non-unique chapter master -- no reason not to load him out for combat since you are paying for 4 wounds and assaulty stats. If you want to save points you take a libby or chappy. A cheap shooty HQ you take a techmarine.

Non-unique captain. Since they are required for battle company then you may find yourself wanting a cheap version. In that case an Auspex is all you really need to add. Maybe a meltabomb. However if points allow a fist+claw setup is worth considering, especially if you are taking a command squad. But realistically he is likely the warlord so cheap and hide him makes sense.

Though to be honest Khan is a value buy so unless you are avoiding White Scar chapter tactics then taking him as your demi-captain is the best value.

If this is CAD, you are probably better off avoiding the non-named captains and chapter masters unless they are smasher style. Just no reason to take them otherwise.

I agree, but really what are you getting out of the 140 point build that you won't get from say a L2 librarian in TDA?

By comparison you get a lot more utility point for point.

That's why I'm in the go-big or don't bother camp for the captain/chapter master.

 More Dakka wrote:
I agree, but really what are you getting out of the 140 point build that you won't get from say a L2 librarian in TDA?

By comparison you get a lot more utility point for point.

That's why I'm in the go-big or don't bother camp for the captain/chapter master.

That's a good point on the Librarian. I play Templars so it doesn't help me but still a fair point.

There are times to take a moderately built captain. Obviously, you can’t go head to head with the other combat monsters out there unless you go all-in. But that gets expensive fast. So if we fall back to “shoot the choppy, chop the shooty” how much gear do we need?

Not a lot.

Artificer armor is required. The survivability of 2+ over 3+ is significant, and worth it.

Relic blade (or the ToT) is a decent jack-of-all-trades weapon. Enough S to reliably wound things, and AP3 to mulch most of the softer targets you are going to be hunting. Reasonably priced. Leaves a hand free if you want to take a SS. Or a gun. Those options will boost points, but can be worth it.

Paired power weapons, axe/(maul or sword) depending on if you are more likely to face MEQ or xenos. This is your low cost blender option. You rely on the 4++ iron halo to take any nasty hits (or look out sir! and some meatshields) If you want to go for the high cost blender, TH/LC is the step up.

The lowest I would go for a captain would be AA, bolt pistol/power weapon.

As he’s primarily a CC machine, a jump pack will help him get there. But as he’s not the survivable loner that a bike captain can be, stick him in a squad of assault marines.

If you just want to fill a HQ slot, the other characters work better at low points. Librarians are good if you are running a CAD. Chaplains can do fine if you are working with a demi-comapny. Even techmarnies are reasonably rugged and versatile. Captains need gear to work, and the more you give them, the better they get. But they can be perfectly serviceable in the mid point range. Just don’t expect them to be soloing bloodthirsters.

 Nevelon wrote:


Relic blade (or the ToT) is a decent jack-of-all-trades weapon. Enough S to reliably wound things, and AP3 to mulch most of the softer targets you are going to be hunting. Reasonably priced. Leaves a hand free if you want to take a SS. Or a gun. Those options will boost points, but can be worth it.

Paired power weapons, axe/(maul or sword) depending on if you are more likely to face MEQ or xenos. This is your low cost blender option. You rely on the 4++ iron halo to take any nasty hits (or look out sir! and some meatshields) If you want to go for the high cost blender, TH/LC is the step up.
.

That seems entirety reasonable to me.

I'm not sure on the normal storm shield myself, going from a 4++ to a 3++ with only 3 wounds might not be worthwhile, especially at the loss of an attack.

Chapter master with artificer, captain on a budget, PF or LC on a budget, teeth of terra.. protection and mobility to taste. The guys a combat animal at initiative with AP 2 potential if needed. Wolves do it better but hes still very respectable and damn cool.

If you are playing a Gladius Strike Force, the rerolls from doctrines really help the Captain's offensive production. Keep that in mind when calculating how effective he will be.

I've only started Space Marines recently, but my Chapter Master has been doing alright - not winning every game, but some - with a rather unusual but fun equipment setup.

He has meltabombs, jump pack, Lightning Claw, and the Shield Eternal. I use him in the Battle Demi-company [Salamanders]. Having him with the Shield really offers a lot of flexibility - he can drop in with Terminators, an Assault Squad, or on his own. He can even start on the board and stay still for a turn to use his Orbital Strike, while still having the mobility to make it into combat at some point.

He might even survive long enough to claim an objective or two, since he's Objective Secured - and can take out small squads of objective holders, like Tacticals or Firewarriors.

So far, I haven't given him artificer armor, but I'm thinking it might be worth it.

In my mind, if you're not building smashface, then you don't want a CM, so we start at 90 points for a captain.

You're now the same price as an ML2 libby without any of the functionality he provides. Any attempt to increase his usefulness is going to cost points (at least 150 for any captain worthy of the name. About the only thing you can realistically hope for is to go bully some MEQ's, so Captain, Artificer, Lighting Claw, Jump Pack - that's 90 + 20 + 15 + 15 = 140 points. Add 5 more since the Auspex is a no brainer.

Unfortunately, killing MEQ's no longer really means much, so who cares if that's what you can do? More often than not, anything that is actually scary will shred your beatstick in a single blow unless he's got the shield, and once you've sunk 50 points into that, well, you might as well spend the rest to make him effective and we're straight back to smashface.

Unfortunately, librarians are far to undercosted for what they bring to ever consider a non-smashface beatstick IMHO.

With the new formations, it’s not quite as relevant to compare to a Librarian. When talking about a CAD, sure. But if you want to build a demi-company, we are more limited in our HQ choice.

And the one thing a Captain can do that the Librarian cannot is fill the company slot.

If we want to compare low cost options, bringing in the chaplain is something to consider. He works fine out of the box, without the whistles and bells a captain needs to get the job done. Give him a bike/JP to tag along with whatever you are taking from the FA pick of the company and go to town.

If you are fielding a full company, and need both, you probably don’t have the points for a fully tricked out captain, and some low point options for him are good to have.

Wait when did killing anything with 3+ or worse become not worthwhile again?

Smashfether is a great tank and good at tackling high value low body count stuff but his damage output is actually pretty pathetic considering the investment. Your paying damn near WK costs for a 4 attack model.

dominuschao wrote:
Wait when did killing anything with 3+ or worse become not worthwhile again?

Or any infantry, or light armor for that matter.

I guess if your meta only has AV12+ or T6 3+ or 2+ save units in it, it makes sense to only bring the big weapons to the table.