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I don't know about you guys, but I miss metal models like crazy. Matter of fact, I have been buying them exclusively off eBay lately, as I want to ensure I can have the metal versions for my armies, rather than have to get the fail cast ones. I like the durability, the weight, the look, and the feel of them. I really wish they hadn't gone away. Some of the last ones made were truly great. The eldar and space marine models they put out in metal right before the switch were amazing, and it's a shame that there weren't that many made compared to some of the earlier sculpts. It's like pulling teeth trying to track down some of them.

Anyway, does anyone else out there feel the same? I really wish they'd consider going back to metal, but I really just don't see it happening.

I like the old metal models a lot. I like the way they looked, the way paint worked on them, and I liked the unique personality that some of them could have. I've got a few Tallarn and Valhallan imperial guard that I bought years ago that are still some of my favorite guys...

That said, I do not miss how much even a small army could weigh.

I hate literally everything about metal models and I hope they are never produced ever again and the formula for "white metal" is buried in a safe at the bottom of the ocean after being burned to ashes. They're hard to modify, heavy, chip easily, monopose, and almost always ugly compared to more modern plastic kits.

In some ways I miss metal minis, in others I don't.

Metal minis paint chipped and rubbed way easier, broken fairly often, and were often prone to fall over due to weight and then break/chip.
Detail isn't always quite as crisp as with *good* resin.
Fixing small casting errors in metal was more of a pain (major casting errors calls for a replacement in either case in my opinion).
Converting elements was typically more difficult.
Some metal models were absolute nightmares to assemble and *keep* assembled due to their weight. Looking at you St.Celestine and your silly cherub-cape.
**** the metal Thunderfire cannon. Right where it poops.

However, at the same time, there are things to be said for metal minis.

The feel and heft just has...something to it. That tactile sensation really does matter.
They typically don't have as many small casting issues as resin does.
You don't have to worry about heat with metal minis in the same way you do with resin (I can leave metal mini's in a hot trunk without any worry)
They look way nicer in a blister and make a much more enticing looking product on a shelf. That impulse buy trigger is way higher with metal minis (at least for me).

I miss them aswell. Sure they have their problems, chipping, converting etc etc. All well known and documented over the years I'd say .

Thing is though, and this is entirely subjective ofcourse, plastic models somehow have less character in them. They usually simply seem lifeless and flat. Now with space marines and heavily armoured models this isn't all that noticable. With normal troopers like guardsmen it shows though. Maybe it's the fact that there's not a person pysically scuplting the model or something, I don't know but to me somehow plastic models on average have less appeal character wise. Even if they are technically far more advanced.

 j31c3n wrote:
I hate literally everything about metal models and I hope they are never produced ever again and the formula for "white metal" is buried in a safe at the bottom of the ocean after being burned to ashes. They're hard to modify, heavy, chip easily, monopose, and almost always ugly compared to more modern plastic kits.

To each their own, but a lot of the new plastics are mono pose. And some of the newer models are just hideous.

 j31c3n wrote:
I hate literally everything about metal models and I hope they are never produced ever again and the formula for "white metal" is buried in a safe at the bottom of the ocean after being burned to ashes. They're hard to modify, heavy, chip easily, monopose, and almost always ugly compared to more modern plastic kits.

This. And they are subject of missmolds (not as bad as failcast but serious flaws), and they deform super easy and if they break the pieces are deformed and don't go back together. The raised bits will almost certainly allow the paint to be completely rubbed off. They can't be stored in a bag. They are heavy as frak. I mean I have 8000 points of orks. That would take a forklift to move around.

My main beef with metal minis is how much they break apart. My metal CSM termies require repair often. My reaper autocannon termi falls forward most of the time. I like the heft of them, but if I knock over a plastic mini, I'm sure he won't break, whereas with metal, I'm not sure. There are pros and cons to each, but I'm happier with plastic over metal.

I like practicality when it comes to models, so I have zero nostalgia for metals In fact I'll happily work around the flaws of finecast than have to use metals again.

The main reason is I had a nightmare in the past keeping the paint jobs intact on my metal models. It chipped off hard edges and raised areas of detail. Even an unintentional contact with my fingernails would do it. And any staffs or swords or anything protruding was prone to bending and subsequently snapping (and of course the paint would spall off where it bent too). I spray undercoated my models, then gloss AND matt varnished the finished pieces. Nothing seemed to make a difference -they just kept chipping. Now admittedly they probably weren't padded properly when stored, but it's a problem that you just don't have with plastics and resins.

Other smaller problems I had were:
-models falling over from their own weight while on a hill
-and superglue joints breaking when they did fall
-mold lines took longer to remove
-assembly could be tough on larger figures

They felt good in the hand, that was about the only thing I miss about them.

I really like plastic, it's strong and easy to work with.

Guess I'm lucky that there isn't a lot in the way of metal/resin in the current Dark Angels range.

 j31c3n wrote:
I hate literally everything about metal models and I hope they are never produced ever again and the formula for "white metal" is buried in a safe at the bottom of the ocean after being burned to ashes. They're hard to modify, heavy, chip easily, monopose, and almost always ugly compared to more modern plastic kits.

Some of the best looking models I've ever seen were produced in metal. Check Rackham's Confrontation range from the 00s if you simply don't know where to look. Those metal models still make most plastic kits (even ones released recently) look like the cheap* plastic toys they are. Many companies are still working with metal and releasing very nice kits nowadays, even if you don't know such model ranges exist.

* they still charge you premium price for them though, despite the material being worthless.

I do like metal models a lot more than the finecast ones, and often buy the metal off ebay rather than get the new ones from GW. That said if they were doing the same models in the usual plastic rather than finecast I would buy them, as plastic is just so much easier to work with than metal.

Allsd fine long as not a metal thunderhawk.

Metals will always be my favourite. I'm glad many companies are offering metals (and started offering metals) in this day of plastic. For me, metal commands respect. Treat the models with care and they'll treat you with care. But, treat metals with little care, and expect chips, bends and damage. Also, I want my miniature collection to cause the display shelves to buckle under the weight!

I miss the heft that the metal miniatures had so I've weighted mine down with pennies stuck under the base.

Other than that, I have no complaints about plastic.

 Korinov wrote:


* they still charge you premium price for them though, despite the material being worthless.

The plastic itself for 1 single clampack in the material probably cost about 18 pence, yet they think the reasonable price is £17.99 [ten fething thousand percent mark-up in price FYU]... it just doesn't work out at all.

 sing your life wrote:
The plastic itself for 1 single clampack in the material probably cost about 18 pence, yet they think the reasonable price is £17.99 [ten fething thousand percent mark-up in price FYU]... it just doesn't work out at all.

You aren't just paying for the materials.

The artist who creates the original sculpt needs paid.
The CAD designer who converted the sculpt into a model with multiple parts needs paid.
The machine that actually makes the sprue needs bought.
- Also, plastic isn't like metal, you can't melt it down and remould it, if the moulding is imperfect you have to just bin it, that cost needs factored in.
The artist who designed the packing needs paid
The packaging materials need bought
The machine that puts the sprue in the packaging needs bought.
The lorry that transfers the models from the factory to the warehouse needs paid for.
The lorry that trnsfers the models from the warehouse to the stores needs paid for.
The sales staff need paid
The rules writers need paid
The accountants need paid
The warehouse staff need paid
The shop staff need paid.
The cleaners need paid.
etc.

Before you moan about pricing, remember that all of those costs need factored in for GW to turn a profit on a model. Every single company's goal is to turn a profit, they don't want to just recoup their costs.

Also, this is a niche hobby, the model runs are probably pretty small so all those costs need spread across a relatively small number of sale units. You are also paying for their IP (which is GW's most valuable asset).

It sucks but the reality of it is that you are paying for all of that whenever you buy a model.

Things I love about metal models
- They are easy to cast
- Nostalgia
-They are easy to clean and tend to survive trough the ages.
- Small model have a nice feel to them

Things I hate about metal models.
-They never fit as good as the plastic ones.
-The glue doesn't bond as well as plastic glue.
-Big models are a nightmare to put together
-Swords and spears get bend and warped if they fall

We will probably not see them again from GW, but hey you can make your own, it isn't that hard


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sing your life wrote:

 Korinov wrote:


* they still charge you premium price for them though, despite the material being worthless.

The plastic itself for 1 single clampack in the material probably cost about 18 pence, yet they think the reasonable price is £17.99 [ten fething thousand percent mark-up in price FYU]... it just doesn't work out at all.

I completely agree playing 17,99 or more for a single model is bonkers. Normal single models don't have to be that expensive you just pay for the perceived value and the brand. Its just like apple the prices are as high to elevate the model to a premium perceived standard and they might actually sell more that way depending on the type of customer.

I might consider buying clamp packs if they included all the possible upgrades. Having a good sculpt with multiple sprues of upgrades and bits would be great. But the current versions just scream "these are made for fools who like to pay more" to me and I can't set myself to but them.

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Excuses for GW insane pricing.

Yet other companies are able to offer similar products cast in more expensive materials at half the price. If GW fails to have competitive prices due to whatever reason, it's only their fault.

Not to mention the hilarious thing from some years ago.

"Hey guys, we're switching from metal to finecast, this will certainly increase the models' quality!"

The prices certainly increased, the quality however...

Edit: individual humanoid infantry plastic models at around 20€ are a scam, no matter the quality of the sculpt or any other factor.

Don't get me wrong I love this model



But 25 euro is way too steep.

For that money I would expect it also to include
- force axe
- force sword
- Auspex
- Digital weapons.
- Jump pack
- Melta bombz
- Teleport homer
-Bolt gun
-All combi weapons.
-All pistols
-storm bolter
- The relics
- some chapter upgrades

and perhaps even a bike and or a terminator body

Its just plain silly that if you spend 25 euro's you have to go to a bits site to give him a weapon that doesn't have ap 4 :\

I like metal for the gravitas it lends the model.

I know of a few Russian and Chinese plastic kit companies who do 120mm historical figures in the material with a RRP that averages £12, and yet even the biggest of said Asian companies only make Rouble or Yuan for every UK pound Games Work$shop makes.

OP: Never happen again from GW, but if you like them there are alot of model companies that produce them

 sing your life wrote:
I know of a few Russian and Chinese plastic kit companies who do 120mm historical figures in the material with a RRP that averages £12, and yet even the biggest of said Asian companies only make Rouble or Yuan for every UK pound Games Work$shop makes.

Granted they are paying additional transport costs but what are their labour costs like? Do either of those countries have a comparable minimum wage?

Also, I should have made more of a point of this in my other post. As well as the production costs, you are paying for the IP. The universe that GW have created is their biggest asset and that, in part, is what you are buying. It's their prerogative to set a price point for that, ideas don't have an objective monetary value.

The comparison to Apple is a valid one.

I haven't yet had any problems with Resin or Plastic models. I don't have any metal models, but there is one I'd like to build (Cypher to be specific). When I eventually get him, I'll probably post more on whether or not I like metal or Resin/Plastic more. I do know someone who has Cypher, and I really do like the weight of the model. But, that'd make carrying them around very heavy!

SG

If you want to play metal models go play Sisters of Battle.

I'd echo what someone said about paint seeming to go on metal better. No idea if its a real fact but always seemed that way to me.

Plus if you're having a bad game you can always launch your old metal Dread at an opponents groin.
Results may vary with that one.....

I haven't understood the metal craze..i have a few and they are just a pain in the chili ring. Hard to put together(damn near need to weld them together) lack detail compared to plastic, and they are like a bull in a china shop once you attempt to transport them in a container full of plastic. I like plastic sprue, i have options to somewhat customize my minis as i'm assembling, don't require metal files and other assorted blacksmithing tooths to assemble them either.

Crimson Heretic wrote:
... lack detail compared to plastic...

I think its important to point out that until very recently that this was the not the case. Metal held details better then plastic for a long time because it used to be hard to make a quality plastic mold that didn't break and adequately filled out the plastic model. If you ever looked at old versions of plastic models to their current one you can tell the difference and why they did it (like the Chimera)

I have a few metal models and they are amazing. I love the weight and sturdiness when compared to resin.
The bad things though is that metal minis are horrible for paint (they just chip way too easily), easy to fall apart and that metal is almost impossible to use for conversions and kitbashing. Also, compared to plastic, metal is actually more easily damaged.

So in the end I am glad metal is gone. I am happy to have it for my special characters like Archaon on Foot and Gazbag for the weight it gives them, but I'd hate to see all models in metal.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:
... lack detail compared to plastic...

I think its important to point out that until very recently that this was the not the case. Metal held details better then plastic for a long time because it used to be hard to make a quality plastic mold that didn't break and adequately filled out the plastic model. If you ever looked at old versions of plastic models to their current one you can tell the difference and why they did it (like the Chimera)

Yeah, but the point is that you can now make plastic models that are as detailed or even more detailed than metal ones. I don't think there is any real reason to prefer metal over plastic nowadays apart from nostalgia.