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I know there are a few choosing a new army list threads going nut I feeling real fatigued from building and painting Dark Angels. This newer army would be just for fun fluff narrative games.

My case for Orks: Honestly I can't stop giggling or out right laughing at thier amazing fluff, names and playing against them was a riot. Cons is that I'd more than likely go green tide and this would get expensive quick.

My thoughts on Dark Eldar: They seem uber brutal and beyond cruel. I live the pirate theme and tbe amazing paint schemes that work with them (beyond black & purple). Cons is I've never ayed anything like them, or would know where to start without dedicating days of immersion in fluff and lists.

Whats your input?

Dark Eldar. Head on over to thedarkcity.net if you want some tactical advice. Really friendly and knowledgeable crew over there. There actually isn't a whole boatload of fluff beyond the codex and a couple other sources, so you don't have much to wade through.

Green tide is actually REALLY cheap. you can acquire boyz fairly cheap on Ebay and from dakkas trading forum. And basically thats your whole army. You could easily get 100 boyz and a warboss (Green tide) for about $100 and thats (without upgrades at all) around 650 points. With upgrades? you could easily double that.

Current ork dex is horrible. It really is, on the positive side you can probably buy old models dirt cheap. Just don't underestimate painting hordes. Ork FW stuff is great if you love scratch building I would definitely go for orks.
If you buy orks from GW it is one of the most expensive armies you could possible ever collect, so be prepared to pay up, scavenge old models or convert / build a lot yourself.

Dark eldar codex might be called weak but is actually not that bad at all, sure it has lots of traps but some units actually work great. They are FAST, really fast you have much more direct control on the game playing Dark eldar then when you play orks. The downside harder to paint, harder to get on a decent quality from ebay and harder to scratch build.


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Spinnaker wrote:
dedicating days of immersion in fluff and lists.

^ This is my advice

Do spend days perhaps weeks looking at the fluff the models, the lists and the battle reports. This is going to be a 200- 700 euro's investment and probably just as much hours painting them you might as well do some research before you start

Ork pros:
1) Practically any broken model, random mini or oddly shaped piece of trash can make an awesome addition to your army.
2) Talking in a fake Cockney accent is fun.
3) Giggling for twenty minutes because you added truck-nuts to a battle wagon.
Ork cons:
1) Putting paint to that many figures can seem daunting.
Dark Eldar pros:
1) blah, blah, ORKS IS DA BEST! DON'T BE A WEEDY GIT!

I had orks. They are horrible. Seriously. I now have dark eldar. I enjoy every game I play

Orks.... never had a game that wasn't fun when running them

Orks. They are not Elves. Thus they are the superior choice.

Orks! The only faction that has a sense of humor.

Dark Eldar, they are the BDSM poster boys and when allied they become the Uber of WH40k.

Nice models as well although Wracks are pricey.

OP I have to decide whether to bring my Orks or my DE to my new place and I'm thinking Orks because I have more fun with them.

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Dark Eldar, they are the BDSM poster boys and when allied they become the Uber of WH40k.

Nice models as well although Wracks are pricey.

Except that's not DE being made broken by allies, it's more DE breaking other armies through WWPs, Raiders and Covens.

I'm feeling the orks more, especially as it will be a real creative ride. Thanks guy!

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I had orks. They are horrible. Seriously. I now have dark eldar. I enjoy every game I play

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Orks are OP and need to be nerfed hard. And yes I use to play them not even 3 weeks ago. So I know how they are. Had over 13,000 points.

So either Bi-polar or you just like arguing a lot

Orks op :vs dark eldar lol
Dark eldar seem to be designed to murder orks
They cut faster trough orks then they cut trough marines just choose your style.

- Leadership shenanigans reducing your LD
- Massed ap crap poison shots
- Flyers with lots of nasty blasts
- Lots of anti low to mid av vehicle weapons.
- Really hard hitting fast transports and bikes that can stay out assault range for as long as they want.
- Nasty multi wound high I high attacks high T blobs. (Orks are just S3 on the second turn of combat )
- All flamer units that can deep-strike without scatter.


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And don't forget that Dark eldar can ally with Craftwold eldar, harlequin eldar and pirate eldar while orks can only ally with the dread mob that is just the same codex really.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I had orks. They are horrible. Seriously. I now have dark eldar. I enjoy every game I play

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Orks are OP and need to be nerfed hard. And yes I use to play them not even 3 weeks ago. So I know how they are. Had over 13,000 points.

So either Bi-polar or you just like arguing a lot

Horrible doesn't mean the army play wise is horrible. I'm saying horrible in the sense of they lack fun. They lack anything I wanted in an army. I hated moving. I hated shooting. I hated painting. I hated everything about them. They were horrible. please learn English. As there are multiple meanings to multiple words.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I had orks. They are horrible. Seriously. I now have dark eldar. I enjoy every game I play

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Orks are OP and need to be nerfed hard. And yes I use to play them not even 3 weeks ago. So I know how they are. Had over 13,000 points.

So either Bi-polar or you just like arguing a lot

Horrible doesn't mean the army play wise is horrible. I'm saying horrible in the sense of they lack fun. They lack anything I wanted in an army. I hated moving. I hated shooting. I hated painting. I hated everything about them. They were horrible. please learn English. As there are multiple meanings to multiple words.

What part of moving and shooting was so bad for the Orks compared to any other army? Sure green tide is a pain to move around the board but not every ork list needs to be a 300 boy green tide. Orks have a lot of playstyles with some notable compositions being Green Tide, Dread Mob, Trukk Spam, Biker Gang, Blitz Brigade, etc. Each one plays very differently which gives a great deal of variety to the boyz in green.

Also why would anyone say Orks are OP? In this chedder filled world of OP gak, Orks are very straight forward and tame by comparison with very obvious weaknesses. A game against Orks will result in a lot of dead Orks before its all over. The challenge for the opponent Is will they be able to kill enough of the Orks to stop them.

Dark Eldar actually get better as the game progresses, but Orks only get worse....

I play Orks and find it extremely punishing.

Both have much in common and are sadly have both codexes that made their army weaker instead and removed a lot of options and special character in contrast to the newer codexes.

Lets do some more pro and cons .

Stats
compared to space marine

Orks have
-2BS -1S -2I +1A -2LD Sv -3Sv
Dark eldar have
-1S -1T +1I -2Sv

Special rules
Orks: Furious charge, Mob rule, ere we go
Dark eldar: Night vision, power from pain, combat drugs

Power from pain makes Dark elder better later in the game it gives furious charge from turn 4 and lots of other bonus on other turns. Power from pain is probably a better rule then furious charge.

Mob rule tries to compensate their low LD but it actually hurts the units. In late game dark eldar are fearless due to power from pain.

Wargear: (DE>Orks)
Dark eldar don't have power claws/fists or 2+ armour orks do this is one of the major advantages of orks over dark eldar.
Orks characters don't have any other useful wargear options such as power swords, close combat inv saves, haywire grenades or any melta dark eldar characters do.
Dark eldar have more to choose from and most options are better.

FnP
Orks need to but it in the form of a pain boy takes up HQ slot.
Dark eldar have get it from Power from pain.

Tech repairs
Orks have lots of options to repair damaged vehicles dark eldar doesn't have any

HQ
Eldar HQ's are still Low T and S while Ork HQ's can be T6 and have S10 power claws attacks.
Dark eldar Hq's will strike first and can be equipped with nasty weapons.

Psykers
Dark eldar have none ( but can ally in all eldar psykers)
Orks have wierd boyz, they have some fun powers, damage themselves with S2 hits, don't have any wargear options and only wear a power staff and a 6+ shirt save.


Troops
Shooty troops (DE>Orks)
Orks have Shoota boys, dark eldar have dark eldar warriors. Dark eldar warriors are 25% have better range hit 2x as often on short range have, have poison and better armour. Orks shoota boys have +1T +1A and can be in larger squads.

Stompy troops (Orks>DE)
Ork boyz hit harder when they charge then Wyches. Wyches are 40% more expensive. Both have S3, orks always have Furious charge, Wyches might have it. Orks have 6+ Wyches have 4+ inv saves in close combat and 6+ vs shooting. Ork nobs almost always strike last but will insta kill most characters, Wyches sarg will strike first will most likely do 1 wound and will be killled if something strikes back. Ork boyz can be in squads of 30 Wyches in squads of 20. But don't overestimate ork boyz, they are good in the first round but only have str 3 this makes them really somewhat sucky in the second and continual rounds of combat.

Transports

Transports (DE>Orks Battlewagons might be better)
Both love Av10 open topped transports, the dark eldar ones are skimmers, can jink have heavy weapons and have lots of useful upgrades. Orks have trucks that you can paint red with medium weapons that most of the time miss... Orks can use heavy support slots for Battle wagons, they are really sturdy but still not as manoeuvrable and have inferior weapons.

Note:If you include FW orks have actually all kinds of transport even AV10 skimmmers, but they do all lack the dark eldar heavy weapons, high BS and eldar upgrades.

Fast
Jet bikes. (DE>Orks)
Jet bikes are great and both have them. Orks can field squads of 1 making the squads cheaper. Dark eldar jet bikes are better cheaper per model.

Jump Troops( Shooty DE>Orks, Choppy Orks>DE)
Dark eldar have Hellions orks have Rokkit boyz. Helions are 50% more expensive, have better saves higher str, better ld and superior fire power. Ork Rokkit boys are faster and have more attacks. Scourges are even worse in close combat but do have really good heavy weapons.

Normal bikes (Orks>De)
Orks have nob bikes and boy biker squads both are great and can be made troops by a forge world character
Dark eldar have only jet bikes

Light vehicles (orks>>De)
Orks have all kinds of silly cheap such as buggies and grot tanks DE have none.

Fliers (DE>Orks)
both are Av 10. The DE ones have better weapons and better BS

Beasts (DE>>Orks)
Dark eldar beasts are a beast in close combat. I would love Orks to have squigs beast herds but sadly they don't have any beasts

Heavy and elite

Atillery(Orks>>De)
Orks have artillery De don't ork artillery misses a lot but they do have nice guns such as S8 heavy plasma and some nice anti air guns. Note ork Artillery is cheap but suffers from a low LD so any smart opponent will try to let them runn of the table.

Heavy choppy infantry (De~>Orks)
Orks have Nobz, and Mega nobz.
De have incubi, grotesques, and nasty coven formations.
Mega nobz are 2 wound I1 terminators with all powerclaws but without any inv save
Incubi are I5 ap2 infantry with only a space marine save
Grotesques ant coven formations are high T multi wound blobz.
Mega nobz are not bad but I do think that depending on the situation incubi or covenant formations are better.

Anti tank infantry (Orks>De)
Orks have tank busta's they are dirt cheap all have tank hunter melta bombz and rokkit launcha's, they need to get close but vehicles willl die is they mass melta bomb them.
Dark eldar have Scourges for twice as many points without weapons, they are jump and can have really good heavy weapons that should be able to kill anything at a distance. They are better at range but they are way more expensive.

Dreads (Orks >De)
Orks have lots of dreads from small grot killa kans to big lord of war stopma's De have none

monsters(De>orks)
Orks have gargantuan squiggoths they suck are expensive and forge world, De have all kinds of nasty monsters that can be in good formations.

Shooty vehicles
Both are most of the time open topped,
Orks have low Bs blast weapons on tanks
Dark eldar have High Bs lances on skimmers

Forge world Support (Orks >> DE)
DE have only a few units, Orks a lot ranging from silly grot tanks to nasty supper heavies and everyting in between.

Allies (De>Orks)
orks have no real battle brothers (only dread mob(
Dark eldar have all eldar codexes and they are great

Also don't buy into the green tide hype. It looks impressive and I have been using that formation for years now in apocalypse where it is actually funny to use. Nothing beats the old 200 boyz + an obscene amount of warbosses on bikes that arrive from their deployment zone to fill up the space of your teams bombardments. using it in normal games as a foot slogging wave of doom looks scary but is really just a cheap sucky trick, that can be countered with ease. The only thing your opponent needs to do is assault it on some less dense corner with a decent close combat unit or a tarpit and the whole unit slowly collapses into an never ending pile in move, that can't hurt anything else and only has S3 except from the few I1 power claws that are most likely spread al over the board.

@oldzoggy, great post dude that was probably the best way to put it

I'd say Orks , because they allow for far more customization of individual models, meaning if you get bored painting them you can try new things out-- even as simple as warpaint and tattoos, or as complex as total conversions. It helps keep enthusiasm up more than painting a few dozen samey models.

I would vote Orks, for reasons you already posted.
They are the most fun of the Factions for sure!

Dark Eldar. Sometimes being the bad guy can just be so fun. I can't be a bad guy in real life, but boy is it sure fun in fantasy land.

As a Marine player who has a couple armies, flavours both Chaos and vanilla I too have felt the pull of a different faction. I tried Orks and yeah, it was fun. Until I realized I needed to paint about 100 more boyz! Lol.

Seriously though, all the reasons you give to play Orks boil down to enjoyment. You clearly enjoy the zany hooligan faction, and as well you should. Orks are pretty darn awesome. But you have to be really invested in that aspect of the faction because GW has put Orks at a distinct disadvantage thanks to the new raft of codices. Its not that you can't win or everything is too OP, its just that you're kinda at your opponents mercy as to whether or not you're going to stand a chance. I know that even with my meagre forces I have no problem writing a list that eats Orks for breakfast. On the other hand I've also written lists to hard counter those lists and had good success.

In summary, Orks are a mixed bag, tactically. If you want an army that has a bit more performance potential then go for Dark Eldar. These guys can seriously mess up anyone's day and have enough cool units that you can have some variance and still be potent. But... Just try taking a thrift store toy and making a DE Raider! You will get laughed out. Take that same tonka toy and make it into an Ork trukk? Pure Dakka modelling gold!

So for you, I'm gonna say go green! It seems like you are more in it for the fun than for anything else. Mind you if you'd come across and said hey DE are so cool and I love the fluff I'd have to say go with them, because really that's what it's all about, not who is better at x or y.

Orks all the way! Folks either like to play dem Greenskins or play against dem Greenskins!

I just wanted to throw something out there. Regarding pricing, there are several DE unit that can only be had via finecast models. For example, all of the Beastmaster models (Beastmaster, razorwings, Khymera, and Clawed Fiend) are finecast and sold as individual models for approx. $20 a piece. At 12 models max for the unit, you are looking at +-$240 for ONE beastmaster unit. Same goes for the Archon's court.

This all being said, I play both DE and Ork. And I love them both for different reasons, but the DE speed is truly game changing. If you are looking to play the game with a totally new set of tactics, go with the DE. Orks are more of the same old thing, with more numbers. DE can do things like cover screens and transport circling, not to mention, being able to get to every objective in Maelstrom games is beautiful.

Orks all the way. They're just a fun all around good time.

Something to point out that I enjoyed was the camaraderie among ork players now that the codex is weaker. The only players left really like orks. When I showed up at nova, I put my stuff down, quickly went to the bathroom, and when I got back every ork player at the tournament was waiting for me! It was really really awesome. I didn't say anyone showing up with centstar and people excitedly walking over and going "Space marines! no way! me too!"

Porque no los dos?

In other words, why not both? Start with 500 pt armies of each and see which playstyles you like better. I'm actually going for both because they're pretty opposite each other. Massive, slow-moving hordes vs a small number of speed junkies.

Orks are possible to buy chep second hand. For example, i've started buying orks in early 6 when we were a weak army and only nob bikers and battlewagon spam really worked. So, i got a ton of boyz, some nobz and characters for 1/3 of it's GW cost from folks here and there who lost their faith in orks and 40k in general and sold out.

So, now orks are again pretty weak on a competitive level, game rules and balance still suck, so it must not be too hard to find people willing to sell out toys for cheapo.

Dark eldar on the other hand are a pretty potent supplement to op eldar, so it's much harder to find good deals.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Porque no los dos?

In other words, why not both? Start with 500 pt armies of each and see which playstyles you like better. I'm actually going for both because they're pretty opposite each other. Massive, slow-moving hordes vs a small number of speed junkies.

This is probably the best advice thus far. DE and Orks play quite differently. As OP said he wants to play them for "fun fluff narrative games", their respective power levels shouldn't really be an issue (so Dakka might be the wrong place to ask ), and both can offer a lot. A few miniatures go a long way to get a feel for the army.

Personally, I'd say: if you have to choose, take Orks. I love playing them, love painting them, love building stuff for them (including buildings, which is comparatively easy). But YMMV. So if at all possible, give both a shot.