Re:[KS] Super Dungeon Explore : Legends failed - new Update!

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**Schmapdi**

I like the generic humans - I wonder if there will be rules for them to be a spawn point too?

**odinsgrandson**

The humans are definitely part of a spawn point (that's how the Warbands work).

**DaveC**

Riftling Warrior

http://ninjadivision.com/earn-your-always-super-backer-pin/

**JohnHwangDD**

Earn Your “Always Super” Backer Pin!

Published by deke, on October 20, 2015.

The Super Dungeon kickstarter begins tomorrow, October 21st at 1:00pm MDT. This Kickstarter is gearing up to be our biggest and most incredible ever with tons of new product and loads of stretch goals for our backers to unlock, and further increase the value of their pledges.

In addition to our normal stretch goals we will also be unlocking one brand new adventure every single day! Most of the adventures are for your Heroes and will be digital downloads for you and your gaming group to enjoy. However, several adventures are up to the backers to accomplish. The community needs to complete the adventure to earn the reward. Once all of the adventures are unlocked, qualifying pledges will receive an incredible 21 FREE rewards just for backing!

The first adventure is an easy one—pledge! Backers who pledge during the campaign for the Explorer, Dark Consul, or Legendary pledges will get an awesome “Always Super” backer pin!

Get your mouse and clicking-finger ready to hit the pledge button, so you don’t miss out on the Super Dungeon event of the year! If you don’t pledge, the Riftling Warrior will be very angry with you. You wouldn’t like him when he’s angry…

{ super-dungeon-riftling-warrior-sculpt }

The Super Dungeon kickstarter begins tomorrow, October 21st at 1:00pm MDT.

This is an interesting thing, where SPM is basically locking the SGs to KS backers vs late backers?

OK, the Riftling Warrior looks great! Really liking the Midnight Tower!

**ced1106**

Ugh. Hoops to jump through to get stuff. *Every day* Hopefully, they won't be too difficult. For a Treasure Chest KS, I ended up tweeting 1/4 of the photo goals because half the backers were older than your grandfather and didn't have Twitter or Facebook account.

OTOH, asking backers to actually pledge helps backers reach funding goals. OTOOH

FK made them with funding to spare.

Eh, I'm on the fence and will see how this goes...

**highlord tamburlaine**

I'm a sucker for freebies.

Throw enough at me and I'll probably cave.

Give me a reptilian hero proper (not just a dragon knight or a kobold in armor) and I guess I'm in for good.

Ought to just come up with my own ruleset closer to Heroquest with all the SDE stuff I've got...

**JohnHwangDD**

They're not actually "freebies" - they are what would have been stretch goals in FK or NAS. And you're still paying for them.

If you look at FK, there were at least 21 things that got bundled into the pledge there.

**nkelsch**

If these 21 events are going to be examples of the rules or quests or whatever which we can demo at home, I am all for that.

**highlord tamburlaine**

I still consider them freebies in the sense that they aren't things that are included in the later retail release of the game.

When you consider purchasing all of the KS stuff from Forgotten King at retail, it adds up pretty fast. That's what I meant by freebies. Stuff that doesn't need to be included with the eventual retail release.

Regardless if they want to throw piles of bonus stuff at us, I may just have to oblige Soda Pop,

**JohnHwangDD**

OK, sure. Just fall right into their trap!

**ced1106**

Say, are these "pins" virtual things, or actual physical product? I don't know why, but I'm a sucker for metal things that can puncture your body. TIA!

**nkelsch**

Considering they are existing heroes, sounds like they are some sort of 'DO this to promote our game, we will add Bclass, A class, X class rules for this hero to the game' or something.

**DaveC**

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/super-dungeon-explore-legends

**Dentry**

In at Legendary. Let the stretch goals roll in and puff up my pledge!

**nkelsch**

So... where is the value? They better have some amazing stretches later without stalls.

Retail costs
SDE 2.0 = 100$
Midnight tower = 60$
Frostbyte ravagers = 40$
Crown Guard = 40$
Princess hero = 13$

200$ pledge = 233$ of MSRP.

Cost retail from OLGS with 20% discount: 186$

At least in previous campaigns, the core pledge was at least 30% discount from retail at launch and less than 10% for paid add-ons.

We will see if they can increase the value via other people's money since there is absolutely nothing pulling my dollars from a 'discount' or 'exclusive' angle right now.

**highlord tamburlaine**

Your retail cost left out SDE Legends, which is included in the 200 pledge, so I guess it is a bit of savings off the bat.

Damn.. already tempted.

I just wish the game played simpler/ faster than it currently does.

**Dentry**

Male Riftling Rogue is in.

**nkelsch**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Your retail cost left out SDE Legends, which is included in the 200 pledge, so I guess it is a bit of savings off the bat.

Damn.. already tempted.

I just wish the game played simpler/ faster than it currently does.

Legends has no models and I have nothing to compare it to value wise... That is essentially 'vaporware' right now.

So 60$ for SDE 2.0, + 60$ for the tower makes legends 30$ for a box of paper?

Like I said... it is basically full retail prices for this stuff, and with zero exclusives, there isn't much reason to pledge right now.

**cincydooley**

It looks like SDE 2.0 will be significantly lower than $100. They're offering a pledge for it at $60, so I'd wager the MSRP will be $80 tops.

**PsychoticStorm**

I would have wished they didn't go the CMON rout of shipping to my country for sure.

Maybe the last game I back were the shipping is almost half the pledge and as much as the supposed game.

**Dentry**

nkelsch wrote:
Legends has no models and I have nothing to compare it to value wise... That is essentially 'vaporware' right now.

So 60$ for SDE 2.0, + 60$ for the tower makes legends 30$ for a box of paper?

Like I said... it is basically full retail prices for this stuff, and with zero exclusives, there isn't much reason to pledge right now.

I can definitely understand not being interested in non-miniature rewards or items. But I find it very glib to call Legends a box of paper. Books are typically paper. The Infinity RPG was mostly paper / digital rewards and many people were very interested in that.

The values there for that paper if you're one of the people interested in the stuff printed on it. Not like they're selling you reams of white sheets.

**cincydooley**

PsychoticStorm wrote:
I would have wished they didn't go the CMON rout of shipping to my country for sure.

Maybe the last game I back were the shipping is almost half the pledge and as much as the supposed game.

So they shouldn't charge you the actual cost to ship?

#confused

**nkelsch**

PsychoticStorm wrote:
I would have wished they didn't go the CMON rout of shipping to my country for sure.

Maybe the last game I back were the shipping is almost half the pledge and as much as the supposed game.

Yeah, but to be fair... when the big boys basically throw up their hands and stop trying to accommodate rest of world, the little guys gonna fall in line. Shipping logistics is costly and a pain in the ass and enough campaigns have 'succeeded' with minimal loss by not attempting to cut costs to backers via shipping hubs.

Kickstarter is a wondrous beast and it keeps evolving. 2 years ago, companies were super worried and bending over backwards to come up with a shipping model, now they simply don't bother.

**cincydooley**

Also: Inspector Honeyscout is just charming.

**nkelsch**

Dentry wrote:
nkelsch wrote:
Legends has no models and I have nothing to compare it to value wise... That is essentially 'vaporware' right now.

So 60$ for SDE 2.0, + 60$ for the tower makes legends 30$ for a box of paper?

Like I said... it is basically full retail prices for this stuff, and with zero exclusives, there isn't much reason to pledge right now.

I can definitely understand not being interested in non-miniature rewards or items. But I find it very glib to call Legends a box of paper. Books are typically paper. The Infinity RPG was mostly paper / digital rewards and many people were very interested in that.

The values there for that paper if you're one of the people interested in the stuff printed on it. Not like they're selling you reams of white sheets.

The issue is it is 'vaporware'. Until I see evidence the rules on that paper is actually good and worth the 30$+, I have to judge every pledge based off previous ability to write rules and value of product if the game lays a huge fart.

At least if other games are awful, I know I have physical minis which I have seen and like the sculpts. If I know the company writes good rules and I have seen valid gameplay pre-pledge, I can judge the value of the 'box of paper'. If I back a rulebook or box of cards and the game/rules are simply unplayable, I have put 30+$ into my paper recycling bin.

It is up to them to put 'value' onto those blank white sheets via gameplay videos and hard evidence of well-tested and fun rules.

**highlord tamburlaine**

You've got a point on how nebulous those campaign rules are currently.

I'm curious if the cards for the 2.0 box are going to be the same as those in the conversion packs, or if they'll end up slightly revised.

At least the family "got" how to play the original game for the most part. I might just pledge for that and go after some of the individual stuff via the PM, unless they really sweeten the pot like they did last time.

We'll see.

**cincydooley**

Personally, I'll be excited to retire my original SDE box. That thing has taken a beating over the years, and the material wasn't really meant to do so!

**PsychoticStorm**

cincydooley wrote:
PsychoticStorm wrote:
I would have wished they didn't go the CMON rout of shipping to my country for sure.

Maybe the last game I back were the shipping is almost half the pledge and as much as the supposed game.

So they shouldn't charge you the actual cost to ship?

#confused

70$ for a country in Europe, no its not actual shipping costs, I have shipped far heavier and bulkier stuff from Japan with EMS for 1/4th of the cost.

It seems, because I have encountered it in the past, their courier company refuses to accept Greece is in Europe (because) and charges a lot, or they did not get the discount for low moving countries, in either case they did not try to find a better solution for countries outside their hotspots.

A nice way to kill the game in a country and create a bad taste to a part of your loyal supporters, vocal or not.

**Dentry**

nkelsch wrote:
he issue is it is 'vaporware'. Until I see evidence the rules on that paper is actually good and worth the 30$+, I have to judge every pledge based off previous ability to write rules and value of product if the game lays a huge fart.

At least if other games are awful, I know I have physical minis which I have seen and like the sculpts. If I know the company writes good rules and I have seen valid gameplay pre-pledge, I can judge the value of the 'box of paper'. If I back a rulebook or box of cards and the game/rules are simply unplayable, I have put 30+$ into my paper recycling bin.

It is up to them to put 'value' onto those blank white sheets via gameplay videos and hard evidence of well-tested and fun rules.

Yeah, that's understandable. Don't think anyone has been defending the revised rules after the 1.X stuff, really. And I'm not trying to sell it to you since there are substantiated trust issues, but I'm definitely willing to give it a try. $30 doesnt seem unreasonable unless, as you said, you end up not liking it at which point you're out that money.

On the plus side, looks like we'll be getting the gender bent heroes.

**nkelsch**

Dentry wrote:

On the plus side, looks like we'll be getting the gender bent heroes.

Ok... I am sold with that. And the witch seems to not have chronic back pain which means there might be some hope!