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The Rules Lawyer
This guy possibly the most disingenuous kind of player. He is the worst part of Team RAW. The rules lawyer will claim to just be making sure that all the rules are upheld, but in reality, this is far from true. The Rules Lawyer's only real goal is to exploit the hell out of RAW in order to gain an advantage. He will completely ignore the intention of the rules and follow only the wording and will always end up sucking the fun out of games and making hem twice as long.

The Power Gamer
"Fun" is not a word in this guy's vocabulary. When he plays, there is one thing and one thing only that he cares about: winning. He just wants to beat everyone he plays so he can completely rub their nose in it and is clearly massively overcompensating for something. He will build overpowered and cheesy army lists in order to gain his desired taste of victory. The only thing that is remotely respectable about him is the fact that at least he sticks to the rules. He'll often be the Grey Knight Dreadknight spammer or the Eldar player who fields minimum units of Windriders and then spam D-Scythe Wraithguard.

The Munchkin
People will often confuse him for the power gamer. In truth, he is something much, much worse. Like the power gamer, the Munchkin is completely obsessed with victory. He does not care whatsoever about the game being an enjoyable experience for you and winning is the only thing that brings him enjoyment. With the power gamer, there is at least something to be respected about the fact that they do what they do whilst still following the rules. Here is where the power gamer and the munchkin differ. The Munchkin does not care for petty rules. They will not stop him from achieving victory. The Munchkin will do literally anything to win, regardless of whether it is within the rules or not. Unlike the power gamer, he is less annoying and more rage-inducing. Furthermore, it is perfectly respectable to be in Team RAW or Team RAI. This guy has no allegiance and will just use the interpretation that is convenient to him whenever he can. You'll often find him to be ignoring, wilfully misinterpreting or just flat our ignoring rules. He'll also try to sneak in as many extra points as possible (I once encountered one that was fielding 1500pt lists in 750pt games) and will get extremely offended and upset of you confront him.

The Idiot
The Idiot is like a child, he is completely and absolutely clueless in everything he does. Ignorant is the wrong word to describe him, as it would imply that he has not had the opportunity to learn the rules. The more accurate term would be simply, stupid, he has had the opportunity to learn the rules but just hasn't. This guy is not a new player, because that would be perfectly understandable and forgivable. We have all been there. This guy is in fact a fully experienced player who has still neglected to learn the rules and is completely clueless He is like a black hole that swallows up all time and fun as he stands there with this bewildered look on his face as he lets out "um" and "ah", asks you the meaning of rules and checks through the rulebook for everything that he does, taking more time to look up rules that he has never bothered to learn than he does actually playing the game.

Considering how extreme the examples are the idiot is the onl liu one I've come across in person. Met a couple people close to the munchkin but not quite there.

You could sum this thread up as 'tfgs being tfgs' and call it a day, no need to talk about what sort of tfg is the worst.

Ah yes.labeling and name calling. The is completely productive and couldn't possible start a flame war or be insulting at all.

The Casual at all Costs player. The person who makes "Fluffy" lists which consists of random nonsense and frowns on other players for having coherent armies. The person who gets poopy faced when his unit of rough riders gets wiped out in assault by Tactical Marines. The person who decries every semi-effective unit as "cheese" and passive-aggressively tries to force other people to play their way. The player who says, "I don't care about winning" but then gets upset when his bad list gets utterly crushed.

Basically, a player that has to have everything his way or no one will have fun.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Casual at all Costs player. The person who makes "Fluffy" lists which consists of random nonsense and frowns on other players for having coherent armies. The person who gets poopy faced when his unit of rough riders gets wiped out in assault by Tactical Marines. The person who decries every semi-effective unit as "cheese" and passive-aggressively tries to force other people to play their way. The player who says, "I don't care about winning" but then gets upset when his bad list gets utterly crushed.

Basically, a player that has to have everything his way or no one will have fun.

Yes! Would definitely add this.

The worst kind of gamer is the the kind who suddenly stab you for no reason.

 toasteroven wrote:
The worst kind of gamer is the the kind who suddenly stab you for no reason.

Outside Context Problems aside, I'd probably have to say that the least fun kind of gamer to play against is the one who decides you have to be tfg just because you beat them...

I played a guy who was using some FW renegades list with the ability to drop 48 barrage blasts a turn, while hiding his weapons behind a fortress of redemption.
The fact that he acted so nonchalantly about his list in what was otherwise a casual tournament, proceeding as if his 30 minute shooting phase was remotely interesting was rather exasperating.
This is not to mention that he became rapidly more aggressive as he started to lose.

Either the munchkin or the powergamer. I'm in 40k for the fluff, never understood people who get wrapped up about WAC lists. If you're into 40k for in the game, frankly your taste for TT mechanics is utter garbage or you haven't tried anything else. The best and only real good thing about 40k is the fluff and the models.

Only real reason to play 40K really is for the campaign and "forging the narrative", all laughs aside. I mean unless you're running a campaign, it's like that one dakka post- 40K is like BDSM. You have to use safe words and negotiate what you bring to the session.

Good thing that most of the top tier lists are totaly fluffy. Ton of jetbikes in an eldar list or a full space marine company, what could be anymore fluffy. Worst type of game ist the pseudo casual, followed by the eldar players, who claim there is nothing wrong with their faction.

The Munchkin. I hate munchkin type players more than anything.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Casual at all Costs player. The person who makes "Fluffy" lists which consists of random nonsense and frowns on other players for having coherent armies. The person who gets poopy faced when his unit of rough riders gets wiped out in assault by Tactical Marines. The person who decries every semi-effective unit as "cheese" and passive-aggressively tries to force other people to play their way. The player who says, "I don't care about winning" but then gets upset when his bad list gets utterly crushed.

Basically, a player that has to have everything his way or no one will have fun.

OMG, this! Worse than any of the first four. And they don't bother to read their own FAQs, but get upset if you've read them.

The Military Guy
His military service made him an expert in absolutely everything, from military tactics to firearms. He likes to obliquely brag about all the BA stuff he did (interrogations, paradrops, reenacting Rambo with real ammo) but if questioned directly 'isn't allowed to tell you' what he did while he was in. Makes it clear that his training makes him immune to fear and able to kill with his bare hands, although you're pretty sure you've seen him get chased up a tree by a cocker spaniel.

Encyclopedia Brown
From theoretical physics to the uniform derivations at the height of the Ottoman empire, this guy knows everything. Lacks any relevant college degree, instead claiming to be 'mostly self-ecucated,' which means watching the History channel whenever too stoned to find the remote to turn on Comedy Central. Has an opinion on everything from politics to movies, and will make sure you know exactly how stupid you are if you disagree with him. Is happy to back up his arguments with out-of-date studies and misquoted statistics.

Secret Agent Man
Sometimes easily confused for Military Guy or Encyclopedia Brown, (who might have actually done some military time or have some knowledge) Secret Agent Man is actually his own category altogether. When he gets into an argument, he always has a way to make it personally about him. Discussing restrictions on adoptions? How dare you, his sister is an adoptive mother. How to barbecue? You should listen to him, he was a professional chef for a few years. Talking about a defunct game? Oh, he used to go to national tournaments before that game stopped being popular. Of course, if you want to play he sold all his stuff. If you offer to loan him some of yours, then he's given it up because he 'outgrew it.' Whatever would impress, he can do. Take apart a steel fire door in thirty seconds? No problem. Break into abandoned homes and then tell the police to kiss off when they come to arrest him, because he claims 'squatter's rights?' Does it all the time. Cheats rampantly, using RAI or RAW as the whim suits him, and claims that he must be thinking of 'an older edition' whenever called on his blatant rules violations.

Having played against the Rules Lawyer, the Power gamer and the Military guy I have to say its usually a combination of the 3 that bugs me.

BTW The Military guy is my personal favorite because if you ask a few intelligent questions its easy to find out if they are full of poo.

I remember going to a game store and my opponent kept telling me with a straight face how he was in the Marines and was a Force recon Marine, I asked him what MOS that is, i believe he said 11B which is an army MOS He told some awesome war stories. When I asked him if he had turned his DD214 into the local sheriffs office when he got out he told me of course he had because he had.... At the end of the game I told him I was an Active Duty Corporal and he was full of poo. He got a bit embarrassed and left good times.

The worst: No fair, the dice are not statistical
Players who can't stand losing cry cheese, get really nitpicky or can't stop rambling about their twisted vision on statistics if their (obviously flawed) plan doesn't go as planned because they fumbled an important roll, a small series of rolls. I can barely resist the temptation to lecture the players who claim the dice rolls are "not statistical" about the actual science behind random series of bad rolls in huge numbers of dice rolls, perception of bad rolls in the same collection and the actual probabilities of follow up chances.

The silliest: the over confident
There is also the kind of player who is so convinced of his "power list" powers that he doesn't want me explaining my obscure unit rules or wargear. And totally cries cheese when is confronted with it. Me:You play a lot of psykers this unit does have psyk out grenades and a null rod would you want me to explain them to you. Other player: No I don't care Never gets old just as "you never told me a force axe could do that.." , " whut wait 75 hits from burna boyz inside that transport.." or "they all carry melta bombz :|" a few turns after the usual I don't care.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Ah yes.labeling and name calling. The is completely productive and couldn't possible start a flame war or be insulting at all.

CrownAxe is soft on TFG behavior!

The worst TFG is the jackass. Sometimes he's wearing a Rules Lawyer's clothing, sometimes he's wrapped up in WAAC armor. Either way, he's a bully when he doesn't get his way, is gloating when he wins, and pouts when he loses.

Raise your glass to TFG! Poor fether that lives at home with mommy at 38...

Outside of the Munchkin (he left the game), there's only 1 other player type that I've played against that was really difficult for me:

The Silent Psycho: This person doesn't say a word outside what is necessary to play. Trying to engage this person with discussion is met with a robotic blank stare, as if your efforts to discuss the game are not only futile, but are actively destroying them. They're not in a rush, they're not bad people, they just look like they're ready to snap at any moment and go on a shooting spree. When the game is over, you'll turn around to give results, and by the time you've turned back they're fully packed up and gone.


I can't stand this person for my games. I can't gauge what's going on. I understand that it's probably somebody with a social anxiety problem, and that trying to talk with them likely only makes them more uncomfortable, so I don't blame them... it's just really hard for me to have an enjoyable game with them. And I'm mildly confident that this isn't me... I've played for over 15 years and this has happened probably two or three times ever. I also don't think that this person deserves a "worst gamer type", since it's not they're fault if they face this problem. If anything, I just wish they could open up a bit and chat - even if it's about odd or difficult to appreciate things - because then there's at least something I can work with to make the game a better time for both of us.

The self absorbed gamer: he can fit into one or more of the above catagories at once. The key defining factor is that only his fun matters. You may have fun, but he has to have the most fun. If your idea of fun is different, too bad, give him his fun. No compromise. And if you dare try and walk away from a game because it isn't what you're looking for, prepare for a lecture about how your opinion of fun is wrong. You should play his way, which is, of course, the only right way to play

You realize this is just a way of asking who are the worst kind of people who happen to game?

My choice is a narcissist: in it only for the ego boost, tend to be labeled a WAAC as a gamer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder.

It really boils down to "good sportsmanship" is the goal anyone contrary to that I guess would be a candidate for this topic.
I have to laugh about the website "The Art of Manliness" at least as a title but some of the articles are excellent including this:
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/08/04/be-a-good-sport-a-guide-to-sportmanship/

Like in the article advice: stay positive!

Nah, Power Gamers can be interesting to play against, provided they stick to the rules and don't go full monkey if they lose. Idiots? My friends and I fit into this category, I think, as we can't have a game of 40k without letting one or two game-altering rules mistakes slip through. Granted, we're a close bunch so there's a lot of goofing around before, after, and during every battle, but I could count the games where we got the rulebooks and codices 100% right with one hand. We're not seen very often on the tourney scene, as you might have already guessed, but some of us do like to play semi-competitive and would sometimes seek games outside our circle. My personal etiquette is: If I slip past some rule and it favors me, I stand ready to be corrected - my ego won't suffer if someone points at some paragrapth in a book I had forgotten or overlooked. If I accidentally favor my enemy, good on him/her. It's not the end of the world!

Rules Lawyers and Munchkins are one and the same thing, actually. Maybe they live sad, grey, uneventful lives so stomping people to the ground in a game of toy soldiers is their only source of gratification. Maybe it's that their fragile egos would collapse upon failing at the last activity that still holds some meaning to them. Or maybe the toy soldiers and the rules that go with them are just a cover for their true calling: Making people suffer. A special brand of sociopath that preys on the geek. Whatever. The only difference between one and the other is that whereas the Rules Lawyer would try to talk you into submission the Munchkin would just ignore you or bully his way through.

In all, neither Lawyer nor Munchkin are into this for the lore or the miniatures, much less for the game itself. Instead, their enjoyment derives from trampling other living, feeling human beings under their boots. So, my vote goes to them

The worst is the guy who cheats when playing newbies.

Lying about unit stats ie: saying a zoanthrope is toughness 5, claiming cover saves AND armour saves, rolling and failing a leadership/psychic test then quickly picking up they dice and claiming a passed test.

To cheat a newbie is simply the most lowly, idiotic, pitiful and demented thing I can conceive of.

What about the "But that's not canon!" guy who stops the game (that he isn't even in sometimes) to point out that 'that color scheme isn't part of space wolves!' or other such things?

The Painter Who's Not a Gamer: He has a beautifully painted exquisite apocalypse size army, but when asked to play in store says, ' oh i only paint'.

The Munchkin is the worst, but the Rules Lawyer takes the longest to finish a game. I'm torn.

 Emperor Pigeon wrote:
The Painter Who's Not a Gamer: He has a beautifully painted exquisite apocalypse size army, but when asked to play in store says, ' oh i only paint'.

Hey now, at least he understands his station in life, Ariel...

Though really, I'd rather look at their army in awe, than watch them feel miserable on the table top, while I become disillusioned at their amazingness.

Why is a hierarchy of badness important?

It isn't.

 Emperor Pigeon wrote:
The Painter Who's Not a Gamer: He has a beautifully painted exquisite apocalypse size army, but when asked to play in store says, ' oh i only paint'.

Ehh not sure why that is bad, if he does not like gaming surely that his right not to bother with playing games?

 toasteroven wrote:
It isn't.

But it's fun...

I am the Dark Souls player.

For 6 years I have been fighting the foulest cheese list with my gimpy CSM army from day one. I lose countless times but each time I do a bit better with the limited models i had. I have been fighting Apocalypse titans at 1000pts.

I have never owned a large reaver or revanant titan but now I own a small team of the shortest titans.

This gen are a bunch of whimps and whinging people. They cry that an IK is too strong. I point out that an equal amount of wraith knights are worse to fight if you have no grav. Because WK cost less than an IK, you can spam more of them.