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Omg I can't even this guy just won't give up on the hating of his eldar. Dperson you really, really need to tone it down on the love of em. It comes off strong. REAL strong


Edit: I have found the source of the thread! Behold, this was posted in ANOTHER dperson thread, and I believe it is when the butt was hurt!

 kronk wrote:
A fun game is where Eldar can only take 1 special weapon per 3 bikes.

I play by a slightly modified 1 in 3 rule that my opponents are fine with, where it is 1 in 3 per army, not per unit. That way you get a unit of 3 heavy weapon bikes to shoot at one thing and then a couple of ordinary bike squads to zoom around for objectives shooting at weaker stuff. (although I do use the cannon bikes as I refuse to use scatterbikes and wraithknights in my Ulthwe army)

I would be personally okay with that compromise. Its one of my complaints about the game in general that heavy weapons have to fire at the same target as the rest of their unit/cant be split off into weapons teams, etc. (which is what typically happens with heavy weapons in the real world)

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Bikes before this edition were an essential component to one of the most powerful builds available to the Eldar codex. But you're right, people do need to get good or get lost, you should lead by example and learn to stop leaning on a crutch like those bikes and maybe try playing some units that actually require skill.

lol I could use any unit and make them good, it's about tactics

HAHA! Yea, just like you were able to make Eldar Jetbikes with 1:3 scatterlasers good, right? Wait, no, I forgot, you couldn't make them good so you started a whinethread on dakka about it.

because you can't change something to crap and expect it to be any good lol

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Bikes before this edition were an essential component to one of the most powerful builds available to the Eldar codex. But you're right, people do need to get good or get lost, you should lead by example and learn to stop leaning on a crutch like those bikes and maybe try playing some units that actually require skill.

lol I could use any unit and make them good, it's about tactics

HAHA! Yea, just like you were able to make Eldar Jetbikes with 1:3 scatterlasers good, right? Wait, no, I forgot, you couldn't make them good so you started a whinethread on dakka about it.

because you can't change something to crap and expect it to be any good lol

So every eldar player before this codex in 7th edition who did really well with his Jetbike infantry was a fluke then? maybe you should L2P as well

You said you could use *any* unit and make them good. Your words D, your words.

And theyre not crap with 1 in 3, they are this thing called *balanced*, its a subtle difference and an easy mistake to make, but dont worry, if you ever get better at the game you'll figure it out.

 roflmajog wrote:
I play by a slightly modified 1 in 3 rule that my opponents are fine with, where it is 1 in 3 per army, not per unit. That way you get a unit of 3 heavy weapon bikes to shoot at one thing and then a couple of ordinary bike squads to zoom around for objectives shooting at weaker stuff. (although I do use the cannon bikes as I refuse to use scatterbikes and wraithknights in my Ulthwe army)

That's a really strange rule but you know what, it sounds fine by me!

Guys the OP is just trolling.


Don't feed him he's just going to end up giving Eldar players a bad name.

Dman137 wrote:
you must not play much, bikes before this edition were only good for grabbing objectives that's it. It's not whining lol I'm going to take them all the time lol people need to stop whining about people that do take them, people need to get good or get lost

This brings a tear to my green, robot eyes. Yet another classic morgoth, err, Dman137 "L2P" post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Guys the OP is just trolling.

Don't feed him he's just going to end up giving Eldar players a bad name.

GW has already done that. And half the people who play Eldar don't help to change it.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Bikes before this edition were an essential component to one of the most powerful builds available to the Eldar codex. But you're right, people do need to get good or get lost, you should lead by example and learn to stop leaning on a crutch like those bikes and maybe try playing some units that actually require skill.

lol I could use any unit and make them good, it's about tactics

HAHA! Yea, just like you were able to make Eldar Jetbikes with 1:3 scatterlasers good, right? Wait, no, I forgot, you couldn't make them good so you started a whinethread on dakka about it.

because you can't change something to crap and expect it to be any good lol

So every eldar player before this codex in 7th edition who did really well with his Jetbike infantry was a fluke then? maybe you should L2P as well

Lol you mean there wave serpent army in 7th that was the best build for eldar and oh look none of them had bikes. Anyone that play tells someone else that they need to alter there units because they feel it's unfair is just a baby and refuses to play because there special snowflake army dosent want to get beat down. It's ok ghazkuul no one is going to hurt your special snowflake

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Bikes before this edition were an essential component to one of the most powerful builds available to the Eldar codex. But you're right, people do need to get good or get lost, you should lead by example and learn to stop leaning on a crutch like those bikes and maybe try playing some units that actually require skill.

lol I could use any unit and make them good, it's about tactics

HAHA! Yea, just like you were able to make Eldar Jetbikes with 1:3 scatterlasers good, right? Wait, no, I forgot, you couldn't make them good so you started a whinethread on dakka about it.

because you can't change something to crap and expect it to be any good lol

So every eldar player before this codex in 7th edition who did really well with his Jetbike infantry was a fluke then? maybe you should L2P as well

Lol you mean there wave serpent army in 7th that was the best build for eldar and oh look none of them had bikes. Anyone that play tells someone else that they need to alter there units because they feel it's unfair is just a baby and refuses to play because there special snowflake army dosent want to get beat down. It's ok ghazkuul no one is going to hurt your special snowflake

I don't even.

Look, if you're this dead set on being a troll, take this argument to 4chan.

You're clearly not capable of reading the arguments.

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Bikes before this edition were an essential component to one of the most powerful builds available to the Eldar codex. But you're right, people do need to get good or get lost, you should lead by example and learn to stop leaning on a crutch like those bikes and maybe try playing some units that actually require skill.

lol I could use any unit and make them good, it's about tactics

HAHA! Yea, just like you were able to make Eldar Jetbikes with 1:3 scatterlasers good, right? Wait, no, I forgot, you couldn't make them good so you started a whinethread on dakka about it.

because you can't change something to crap and expect it to be any good lol

So every eldar player before this codex in 7th edition who did really well with his Jetbike infantry was a fluke then? maybe you should L2P as well

Lol you mean there wave serpent army in 7th that was the best build for eldar and oh look none of them had bikes. Anyone that play tells someone else that they need to alter there units because they feel it's unfair is just a baby and refuses to play because there special snowflake army dosent want to get beat down. It's ok ghazkuul no one is going to hurt your special snowflake

Then perhaps you will not mind if I bring 4X the points limit to a game? Unlike you, Dman, the majority of us here do not view are armies as Special Snowflakes. We accept losses. I know that 9/10 my army will suffer heavily no matter what I do.I know that my Infantry will die and my tanks be destroyed. I live with it.
You on the other hand just want everything to go your way.
If anyone is special snowflaking here then it is you oh pampered one.

BTW, if you can make any unit work then drop by Red Steel Preston. You bring your list and I will bring mine. But we will swap lists. Then see what happens and I bet that you wont even kill one single scatbike unit whilst I will destr every tank and infantry man in my army.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Bikes before this edition were an essential component to one of the most powerful builds available to the Eldar codex. But you're right, people do need to get good or get lost, you should lead by example and learn to stop leaning on a crutch like those bikes and maybe try playing some units that actually require skill.

lol I could use any unit and make them good, it's about tactics

HAHA! Yea, just like you were able to make Eldar Jetbikes with 1:3 scatterlasers good, right? Wait, no, I forgot, you couldn't make them good so you started a whinethread on dakka about it.

because you can't change something to crap and expect it to be any good lol

So every eldar player before this codex in 7th edition who did really well with his Jetbike infantry was a fluke then? maybe you should L2P as well

Lol you mean there wave serpent army in 7th that was the best build for eldar and oh look none of them had bikes. Anyone that play tells someone else that they need to alter there units because they feel it's unfair is just a baby and refuses to play because there special snowflake army dosent want to get beat down. It's ok ghazkuul no one is going to hurt your special snowflake

Then perhaps you will not mind if I bring 4X the points limit to a game? Unlike you, Dman, the majority of us here do not view are armies as Special Snowflakes. We accept losses. I know that 9/10 my army will suffer heavily no matter what I do.I know that my Infantry will die and my tanks be destroyed. I live with it.
You on the other hand just want everything to go your way.
If anyone is special snowflaking here then it is you oh pampered one.

BTW, if you can make any unit work then drop by Red Steel Preston. You bring your list and I will bring mine. But we will swap lists. Then see what happens and I bet that you wont even kill one single scatbike unit whilst I will destr every tank and infantry man in my army.

bring it on, come on down to Canada and I'll be more then happy to play you

Necrons/SM Gladius are fine, they are balanced and fair.

Scatterbikes need to be toned down though, I'm all for removing the Scatter laser and only making the Shuriken Cannon 1 per 3 models.

While dman can be overly caustic at times, the point he is making in the OP really isn't being addressed, and the responses while understandable in a way due to his history of comments, are in some ways exactly the sort of thing he is rightfully called out for. In case all of you missed it, he nerfed himself and got smashed. Then you all basically tell him LTP despite getting upset when he's said the same in the past.

How about giving him props for taking a step in the direction that people supposedly think is fair and encouraging that rather than attacking? Perhaps 1 in 3 isn't the right balance in this edition especially when facing other top codexes and 1 in 2 is better and he could give that a go.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Necrons/SM Gladius are fine, they are balanced and fair.

Wow, I never thought I'd see someone say that.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Necrons/SM Gladius are fine, they are balanced and fair.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Necrons/SM Gladius are fine, they are balanced and fair.

Wow, I never thought I'd see someone say that.

Necrons at the time of their release, were OP.

But given the current trend of GW's releases 2015 onwards, they (SM/Necrons/Craftworlds/DA) seem to be balanced against each other.

All my opinion by the way, just incase anyone wants to argue Do I like playing against one of the aforementioned armies? I play Orks, DE, 2> Flyrant Tyranids and starting BA so I should really be saying no, but so long as my opponent is friendly and gives me a beer to soothe the pain, then it's all good

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:
While dman can be overly caustic at times, the point he is making in the OP really isn't being addressed, and the responses while understandable in a way due to his history of comments, are in some ways exactly the sort of thing he is rightfully called out for. In case all of you missed it, he nerfed himself and got smashed. Then you all basically tell him LTP despite getting upset when he's said the same in the past.

How about giving him props for taking a step in the direction that people supposedly think is fair and encouraging that rather than attacking? Perhaps 1 in 3 isn't the right balance in this edition especially when facing other top codexes and 1 in 2 is better and he could give that a go.

It was addressed in page 1, but then Dman used it as justification for Scatbikes.

Long story short - Dman couldn't see why unlimited scatbikes is unbalanced, tries out the 1-in-3, decided that that makes them underpowered, complains that we're being unfair to the Eldar codex.

bring it on, come on down to Canada and I'll be more then happy to play you

In what part of the world do you have to live in to come DOWN to Canada?



No one told me Masters of Ordinance was from the North Pole!

All my opinion by the way, just incase anyone wants to argue Do I like playing against one of the aforementioned armies? I play Orks, DE, 2> Flyrant Tyranids and starting BA so I should really be saying no, but so long as my opponent is friendly and gives me a beer to soothe the pain, then it's all good

Its a valid opinion as well.

Those codexes are definitely top-tier (as evident by the fact that they can mono-codex fairly easy), but they are NOT overpowered and broken.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

bring it on, come on down to Canada and I'll be more then happy to play you

In what part of the world do you have to live in to come DOWN to Canada?



No one told me Masters of Ordinance was from the North Pole!

No one told me either

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

bring it on, come on down to Canada and I'll be more then happy to play you

In what part of the world do you have to live in to come DOWN to Canada?

Everyone! Just keep walking south, you'll hit Canada eventually.

 deviantduck wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

bring it on, come on down to Canada and I'll be more then happy to play you

In what part of the world do you have to live in to come DOWN to Canada?

Everyone! Just keep walking south, you'll hit Canada eventually.

sorry forgot most of you Americans have a problem with the English language and figures of speech

 Selym wrote:

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:
While dman can be overly caustic at times, the point he is making in the OP really isn't being addressed, and the responses while understandable in a way due to his history of comments, are in some ways exactly the sort of thing he is rightfully called out for. In case all of you missed it, he nerfed himself and got smashed. Then you all basically tell him LTP despite getting upset when he's said the same in the past.

How about giving him props for taking a step in the direction that people supposedly think is fair and encouraging that rather than attacking? Perhaps 1 in 3 isn't the right balance in this edition especially when facing other top codexes and 1 in 2 is better and he could give that a go.

It was addressed in page 1, but then Dman used it as justification for Scatbikes.

Long story short - Dman couldn't see why unlimited scatbikes is unbalanced, tries out the 1-in-3, decided that that makes them underpowered, complains that we're being unfair to the Eldar codex.

Addressed in page one by saying 1 in 3 is fair/works/is balanced L2P.

Who knows maybe he played a couple games without serious effort to make a good list or to play it right. Maybe 1 in 3 makes the unit useless against better armies outside of hiding and objective grabbing.

Well, rather than postulating, let's ask the man himself.

DMAN137

What happened in the 1-in-3 testgames?

Yes! I got into the latest Dman137 thread before it's locked! Keep 'em coming man, my popcorn addiction needs feeding. I can feel the sodium levels rising...

On a serious note, do you know why people took jetbikes before every one could take a heavy weapon? It's because they were insanely fast and had great firepower for their cost. Their primary purpose was to score objectives, like every other troop choice. The difference was that Windriders could get into the opponent's deployment zone in one turn and score there, rather than having to march across the table or sit in the backfield.

If you are unsatisfied with Windriders' reduced level of firepower, here's an idea: Stop. Trying. To. Kill. Tanks. Instead, use them like they were clearly meant to be: hunt minimum-sized objective campers and annoy your opponent. If you need to kill tanks or MCs, you're in luck; Eldar have a wide variety of units for handling MCs, tanks, and infantry.

In short, it's not everyone else that needs to "L2P" Dman, it's you. From the army lists you've posted, all you do is spam the most overpowered units in the codex. That takes no skill or thought. Do you know why Eldar have not yet won a major tournament? It's because most tournament Eldar players have the exact same problem: they build the exact same list, and everyone expects it and has a counter already prepared. Tournament results are the best evidence yet for the argument that player skill always trumps list building. Eldar players like you have been leaning on a few OP and broken units as a crutch, and it's time to remove it. With the way you're going, you just end up giving Eldar players a bad name and yourself a bad reputation.

On a side note, I don't know the story behind Morgoth. Why do people look down on Morgoth, and why do they say not to write Morgoth three times?

Dman137 wrote:
sorry forgot most of you Americans have a problem with the English language and figures of speech

I hear ya. I think it's a symptom of not living in the centre of the universe (aka: Toronto). Toronto is "up there", like heaven. Anything around Toronto is "down" from Toronto. As such, even though I'm north of Toronto, I still ask my cousins what they want to do the next time they come "down" here.



For the OP - the inclusion of squad-wide heavy weapons drastically modifies the Windrider Jetbike's usage. The thing is, basic jetbike squads are the ultimate objective-grabbers. You do NOT take them to shoot with, but instead to just spend turn after turn grabbing exposed objectives. As soon as you take them for the heavy weapons to actually kill stuff with, you're somewhat giving up that use. You'd rather be spending turn after turn shooting because, wow, are they ever good at that! Jetbikes turbo-boost all the time to grab objectives and protect HQ's on jetbikes. Scatbikes stay out of fire lanes and pick off opponents while receiving nearly no return fire.

The 1:3 ratio mentioned is a big deal, but just changes them back to what they were before - the ultimate objective grabbers! The main question back then was whether or not it's be worth it to put in the heavy weapon when you're flying around a ton. Generally the answer was yes, and I still suspect this to be the case, but you for sure can't play them the same way as a squad full of scatbikes - they just aren't the same.

Do you know why Eldar have not yet won a major tournament? It's because most tournament Eldar players have the exact same problem: they build the exact same list, and everyone expects it and has a counter already prepared. Tournament results are the best evidence yet for the argument that player skill always trumps list building.

If I understand you right Eldar tournament players don't know how to play and build lists so they get beat. But if Eldar players win it is because they are using a broken OP codex. So whether they win or lose, Eldar players suck.

Time for a friendly moderator reminder @all: Rule Number One is Be Polite! Keep in mind that you agreed to follow the rules when you made an account and posting is conditional on following through on that agreement. More importantly, this is a forum about discussing games with toy soldiers ... which should be fun and friendly. If you find yourself sniping other posters or getting peeved by them, please take a voluntary break ... or expect an involuntary one! Thanks!

 TheNewBlood wrote:
On a side note, I don't know the story behind Morgoth. Why do people look down on Morgoth, and why do they say not to write Morgoth three times?

In the previous codex Morgoth claimed that the Wave Serpent wasn't broken and was in fact overcosted for a transport. It was only ever a good tank platform, nothing more.