All terminator forces?

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**blofeld**

What's the smallest 1250 point all terminator army possible? Someone suggested all terminator inquisitors but I'm interested in other alternatives
Thanks in advance
Blofeld

**kooshlord**

Grey Knights? Draigo, a couple librarians, a squad of Paladins, and a squad of troop termies. With a few upgrades you could probably field less than 15 models at 1250...

I don't think it would be much good, but it would be termies, and small if that's your goal.

**vipoid**

Do you count Nemesis Dreadknights as terminators?

**obsidiankatana**

Draigo, ML3 Librarian w/ Domina Liber Daemonica, Brother-Catain Stern, 5x Terminators w/ hammer and psycannon, 5x Paladins w/ hammer and 2x psycannons clocks in at around 1000. Legal Nemesis Strike Force, and competitive to a degree. Garnish as you desire with the extra 500.

**Nevelon**

Also, how do you feel about transports?

There is the Strikeforce Ultra and 1st company taskforce in the basic SM codex. These will let you field nothing but terminators, but the Ultra formation does require some other things (LR/SR/Dread)

If you want characters, you could spice it up with some librarian conclaves all in TDA.

If you want more LRs, there is a formation for them as well.

Lowest model count of all the terminator armies? Probably not. But possible in the vanilla codex.

**niv-mizzet**

Well if you went unbound, 6ish chapter masters in termie armor with various gear/relics and such is probably the smallest army you could ever have with just termie models.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
For a battle forged one, you could do Libby conclave with all termie armor libbies multiple times. Probably 10ish models there if they're all LV2.

**DoomShakaLaka**

1st company task force could work.

3 units of terminators that get fear and negatively impact enemy leadership when within a given range.

**Col. Dash**

30k, Pride of the legion, 200ish point squads 2+4++ terminators counting as scoring troops, plasma blaster and power fists and a full compliment of combi-weapons.

**Hawkeye888**

Grey knights are going to be the winner! Termie troops, termie elites, and termie hqs.

**topaxygouroun i**

Unbound army, nurgle chaos lords in terminator armors with claw-fists, boons of chaos, sigils of corruption etc etc.

3 wound terminators with upgraded stats, T5, 4++ all around and would clock at 160-170 pts each. Play 8 of them. Army. Tadaaa.

**ionusx**

its impractical because terminators are a cc unit and at 1250 you barely have the points to get one team into a setup where they can arrive on schedule and punch someone in the face.

**evildrcheese**

BA have a special detachment to represent the 1st company with 16 elite slots and HQs have to be in TDA...it has some special rules, but I think it's fairly lackluster...

D

**entityreign**

Best bet would be Grey Knights. Their basic Termies and their Paladins + HQs pack a really huge, painful punch. I run a Deathwing detachment myself and I agree that at 1250 it's hard to make a fairly "balanced" list of Termies.. If they were as strong as how they are perceived in the novels (walking tanks) they'd be hella stronger and more durable (really 1 wound?) at tabletop. That's just my opinion.

Have you considered Chaos Termies? They have combi stuff w/c sound fun. Although Ive never tried it myself.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Best bet would be Grey Knights. Their basic Termies and their Paladins + HQs pack a really huge, painful punch. I run a Deathwing detachment myself and I agree that at 1250 it's hard to make a fairly "balanced" list of Termies.. If they were as strong as how they are perceived in the novels (walking tanks) they'd be hella stronger and more durable (really 1 wound?) at tabletop. That's just my opinion.

Have you considered Chaos Termies? They have combi stuff w/c sound fun. Although Ive never tried it myself.

**lokust2501**

Space Wolves great wolf company (from the expansion book) requires an HQ and 2 elites, so you can have a terminator character and two units of wolf guard terminators. At a poorly equipped minimum of a rune priest in termy armor and 2x3 wolf guard termies, you can field this for under 300 points. Lots of room to bulk up from here as you can have up to 8 elites choices and 4 HQ.

**koooaei**

New SM termies have gotten somewhat cheaper. 35 ppm iirc. Still overpriced in the reality of current edition but not all that bad. Can even be decent for fun games. And there's a formation of 4 termie squads that give ld debuffs to the opponent.

**jeffersonian000**

Grey Knight Terminators are 33ppm, and are Troop selections. A Nemesis Strike Formation only requires 1 HQ, 1 Troop, with the option to take a Lord of War, second HQ, second Troop and 4 Elites, all of can be TDA, not counting the 2 Nemesis DreadKnights. Thats a potential 63 TDA models in a single legal battleforged FoC, 65 if you take the NDK, with a minimun of only 6.

SJ

**ColdSadHungry**

Would termies be overcosted - really think about it - if they were naturally 2+ 3++ but their ranged capabilites were the same as they are now? Storm shields could do something akin to eldar titan holofields and/or negate the extra attack in CC if they get assaulted.

The difficulty there would be how it works in a squad with less storm shields than models but this is just an off the cuff idea.

**vipoid**

The thing is, we shouldn't just endlessly escalate. There was a time not so long ago when 3++ saves were virtually unheard of. We shouldn't need to keep escalating toughness, wounds, invulnerable saves etc. just to make units like terminators worthwhile.

On the contrary, what 40k really needs is to scale back - so that basic guns, 2+ armour etc. aren't useless.

**Martel732**

"Would termies be overcosted - really think about it - if they were naturally 2+ 3++ but their ranged capabilites were the same as they are now?"

Yes. Because having bad shooting on such an expensive, slow model is unacceptable in 7th.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
The thing is, we shouldn't just endlessly escalate. There was a time not so long ago when 3++ saves were virtually unheard of. We shouldn't need to keep escalating toughness, wounds, invulnerable saves etc. just to make units like terminators worthwhile.

On the contrary, what 40k really needs is to scale back - so that basic guns, 2+ armour etc. aren't useless.

No. Not scale back. Granulate. There are only so many mathematical niches on a D6. Each click is a huge change, and so there are many units that can't be accurately modeled.

**Col. Dash**

Go back to armor save modifiers. Quite a few games use them. 40k used to use them and they worked great. Provides much more versatility for the simple d6. Then simply give terminators back the 3+ on 2d they used to have.

**Martel732**

Col. Dash wrote:
Go back to armor save modifiers. Quite a few games use them. 40k used to use them and they worked great. Provides much more versatility for the simple d6. Then simply give terminators back the 3+ on 2d they used to have.

No, they didn't. Power armor was useless in 2nd. Armor save modifiers would be fine if armor saves were taken on a D12 or D20, though. D6? NOPE

**Lanlaorn**

The only way to scale back would be to dramatically increase the point cost of everything else. Then after that increase the cost anything AP2 or Str D, etc. even further.

Because Terminators are weaker than basic marines vs. bolters too. Giving them a 3++ save default wouldn't make a difference, they'd still be murdered wholesale by scatter bikes or whatever.

The weapons that ignore their armor save being incredibly common is just another nail in the coffin.

**vipoid**

Lanlaorn wrote:
The only way to scale back would be to dramatically increase the point cost of everything else. Then after that increase the cost anything AP2 or Str D, etc. even further.

That's the thing though - D-weapons shouldn't even be in the game. GW need to put the damn things back in Apocalypse and leave them there.

**jeffersonian000**

7th is Apacolypse-Lite. That genie is already out of the bottle.

SJ

**vipoid**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
7th is Apacolypse-Lite. That genie is already out of the bottle.

SJ

And I'm saying we should put it back in the bottle.

**Col. Dash**

Power Armor in 2nd did its job. It allowed weapons whose purpose was piercing light AV and body armor(which power armor is) to actually realisitically pierce light armor. Lasguns had as much difficulty piercing it then as they do now. Autocannons had a better chance of piercing it(but not completely) and completely ignored lighter forms of armor, as they are supposed to being a light anti-armor weapon. Terminators all but shrugged them off as they would lasguns and splinter weapons but get a bit more worried(not greatly though) by bigger Anti-armor weapons like krak missiles and melta-guns, actually they get really worried by melta guns if I remember right. Seem to remember my 275 odd point 2+ on 2d6 Khorne lord getting waxed by a lowly guardsman with a melta gun one game before he had a chance to charge.

Fixed non-field saves are stupid. Armor save modifiers are the way to go forward. Even multi-wound weapons are a step forward(fail an armor save from certain weapons and take d3 or d6 wounds on that model, etc)

**ionusx**

vipoid wrote:
jeffersonian000 wrote:
7th is Apacolypse-Lite. That genie is already out of the bottle.

SJ

And I'm saying we should put it back in the bottle.

you cant really without a new BRB im afraid

**vipoid**

ionusx wrote:
you cant really without a new BRB im afraid

I thought we were talking about changing editions anyway.

**zerosignal**

Give them a re-roll and a bump on the invuln.
2+/2+ for AP3 or worse, or 4++ for AP2 or better.

**vipoid**

Why not just make everything in the game WS10 BS10 S10 T10 W10 etc. with a 2+/2+ save (both rerollable) and FNP (2+) (also rerollable)?