9th grader arrested on suspicion of bomb-making for showing teacher his home-made clock.

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**Ouze**

HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?

Yes, once the decision is made to arrest someone, it's normal procedure to handcuff them even if it looks unnecessary. The chief concern is officer safety and yes I feel ridiculous even saying that considering the "suspect".

**Frazzled**

whembly wrote:
daedalus wrote:
whembly wrote:
Are we really saying that race is the only reason why Ahmed was treated so badly?

People, probably.

Personally, I think there's other factors there in addition to the racial element. Technophobia, religious tensions, and a healthy dose of good old fashion "think of the children" post-Columbine paranoia likely all played a factor.

I really think it's a manifestation of "Zero Tolerance" policies rearing it's ugly head here...

Exactly. Thanks to lawsuits and bureaucracies taking over, "following policy" means nothing bad can happen to you, EVER. Its only when you use common sense (ie not against policy) that bad things can happen to you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:
whembly wrote:
daedalus wrote:
whembly wrote:
Are we really saying that race is the only reason why Ahmed was treated so badly?

People, probably.

Personally, I think there's other factors there in addition to the racial element. Technophobia, religious tensions, and a healthy dose of good old fashion "think of the children" post-Columbine paranoia likely all played a factor.

I really think it's a manifestation of "Zero Tolerance" policies rearing it's ugly head here...

Yeah, that's definitely plausible. Unfortunately, my little brother just graduated high school a year ago, so I can't send him into class with the homemade clock I've been working on prior to this to test out the race factor, but knowing the mouth-breathing hillbillies who administrate that godforsaken hellhole, they'd probably just give it the shotgun treatment.

Hey... you got kids right Whembly? Want to borrow a clock for an experiment?

Spoiler:

There's your problem. (er the clock)
Put in in a pink case with little frilly flowers and no one will say its a bomb. Presentation boys presentation.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:
Actually, now I just want to mount a pistol grip, detachable magazine, and a folding stock onto a clock now.

So you want the Glock briefcase pistol. (yes they really have a pistol like that)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

A Town Called Malus wrote:
HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?

I think the full question is: is it normal for American police to have a kid pulled out of class, interrogated without their parents knowledge or a lawyer present whilst the school principal tells the kid to sign a statement and when the kid rightfully refuses to sign said statement they take him away in handcuffs despite him having done absolutely nothing wrong?

And thats where the lawsuits start, and are later settled by the school and potentially the PoPo.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hordini wrote:
I can't believe that these kind of people are actually teachers. They, along with the teachers involved with the pop tart "gun" situation, are an embarrassment to the profession.

Hey they are following policy. You have to report anything that could be a weapon, threatening, or potentially look like a weapon. "Its a tweenkie" is no excuse!

Note-no emoticons, I'm deadly serious.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mmm...I just noticed the plug you guys were discussing. Yea that makes it even more ridiculous.

Yea, the WAPO article clearly articulatyes the "we followed policy so we're free hahahaha" mentality:

School officials, however, insist that their staff and police acted appropriately in investigating the device as a potential threat.

“The information that has been made public to this point has been very unbalanced,” Lesley Weaver, a spokeswoman for Irving Independent School District, said at a Wednesday news conference. “We always ask our students and staff to immediately report if they observe any suspicious items or if they observe any suspicious behavior.

“We will always take necessary precautions to protect our students and keep our school community as safe as possible. That is our priority.”

Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd said that Mohamed will not be charged with any wrongdoing and that the case has been closed.

“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd told reporters Wednesday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/16/why-a-ninth-graders-arrest-over-a-home-built-clock-struck-a-chord-across-america/

And right here is where they violated violated the Constitution of the US
"When he tried to call his father, Mohamed said he was told he couldn’t speak to his parents until after the interrogation was over. They asked if he had plastic explosives."
Courts have found that "requesting parents" to be in line with requesting counsel.

**Humble Guardsman**

So what would be the ramifications for those who were involved in this? I understand a suit is likely inevitable but, given the national attention, would this cause some of the officers and teachers to lose their jobs?

**Frazzled**

Humble Guardsman wrote:
So what would be the ramifications for those who were involved in this? I understand a suit is likely inevitable but, given the national attention, would this cause some of the officers and teachers to lose their jobs?

Absolutely nothing but lawsuits and settlements will happen.

1. The school was following policy to report "suspicious items."
(not seeing why the principal permitted the police to interrogate a student like that, nor the suspension, nor trying to get the student to sign "something")

2. The police are now saying they were not told he took it to another teacher (that sounds like a lie) and that it was an innocent bomb hoax so their "case is closed" thats CYA and nothing will happen to them.

If stuff actually happened to government employees for their actions, this sort of "stuff" wouldn't happen.

**MrDwhitey**

So if they actually had any kind of thought it actually was a bomb, they'd evacuate the students for safety right?

**Sarouan**

Hmm. I don't think it's a matter of policies. It's more about ignorance and lack of common sense.

Oh, it happened in Texas? I see. At least, they didn't shoot him.

**Frazzled**

MrDwhitey wrote:
So if they actually had any kind of thought it actually was a bomb, they'd evacuate the students for safety right?

Yes. Probably lock down the school and run them all out by class. Thats what they did at GC's when there was a bomb threat.

**MrDwhitey**

So that they didn't do that would seemingly indicate they didn't really think it was anything at all?

**Frazzled**

Sarouan wrote:
Hmm. I don't think it's a matter of policies. It's more about ignorance and lack of common sense.

Oh, it happened in Texas? I see. At least, they didn't shoot him.

you act like it has something to do with the state. This is just one of many incidents over the years. I blame Belgium.
Also I will note there have been islamic terrorist attacks in Texas. The Fort hood shooting, and the attempted mass shoot killing at the comic/free speech event.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MrDwhitey wrote:
So that they didn't do that would seemingly indicate they didn't really think it was anything at all?

indeed. From WAPO their argument later was that they didn't think it was a bomb, but either a hoax or a bomb part (aka detonator/timer). it still doesn't jive though. They are in the greater DFW area so they could hav e pulled in actual bomb experts easily and quickly.

Kid's suspended for 3 days (STILL). No article seems to say for what?
Yea, I'd bet the lawsuit hits by Monday. This kid just got his college tuition to MIT paid.

(thinking about timelines, my boy could be one of the professors...)

**Kilkrazy**

It seems to me one of those incidents where a series of low quality decisions was taken by various people who should have handled things better so that gradually it escalated to the point of being a pretty serious mistake by the authorities.

It is inevitable that such incidents will sometimes happen, due to human fallibility, but it is bad that the situation is being compounded by the boy remaining on suspension when he doesn't seem to have done anything wrong.

As far as the appearance of the "bomb" is concerned, any piece of prototype electronics assembly looks like a pile of mysterious components and wires if you are not technical. If it had been wired into a block of plasticine or Play Doh the cause for alarm would be more understandable. Why did they not get the science teacher who had seen it earlier to come and look at it? Just one of those little mysteries that arise in this kind of case.

**Frazzled**

I'd bet good money they didn't because the admin called the PoPo as soon as the English teacher reported it. probably because thats the rules.

EDIT: called it! Per the Dallas paper

They are often told that if anything suspicious happens, “they are to immediately contact administration who will likely immediately contact the police department after that unless they have a school marshal on campus who is trained on what to do when a student brings something that is perceived to be a weapon to school.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20150916-zero-tolerance-policies-may-have-been-another-factor-in-irving-case-experts-say.ece

**Crimson Heretic**

This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.

**Kanluwen**

Ouze wrote:
HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?

Yes, once the decision is made to arrest someone, it's normal procedure to handcuff them even if it looks unnecessary. The chief concern is officer safety and yes I feel ridiculous even saying that considering the "suspect".

Yes, that's the procedure for arresting someone.

That is not the procedure for questioning someone in a setting that is not a station and when the "suspect" has not been Mirandaized, or in the case of a friggin' 14 year old kid has not been allowed to contact his parents(since he's a minor).

Supposedly the bomb squad was called in to investigate this thing. If they couldn't tell it was a clock instead of a bomb, they should be fired immediately.
That coupled with the principal trying to make Ahmed sign a statement screams that these people knew what they were doing was horrendously wrong and they wanted to make him admit to something before his parents or an attorney talked to him.

Shameful behavior. Absolutely shameful.

**Frazzled**

Crimson Heretic wrote:
This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.

Thats your argument anyway.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:
Ouze wrote:
HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
Is it normal for American police to take kids out of school in handcuffs? He doesn't seem to have been any threat at all, why handcuff him other than to humiliate him in front of the other kids and teachers?

Yes, once the decision is made to arrest someone, it's normal procedure to handcuff them even if it looks unnecessary. The chief concern is officer safety and yes I feel ridiculous even saying that considering the "suspect".

Yes, that's the procedure for arresting someone.

That is not the procedure for questioning someone in a setting that is not a station and when the "suspect" has not been Mirandaized, or in the case of a friggin' 14 year old kid has not been allowed to contact his parents(since he's a minor).

Supposedly the bomb squad was called in to investigate this thing. If they couldn't tell it was a clock instead of a bomb, they should be fired immediately.
That coupled with the principal trying to make Ahmed sign a statement screams that these people knew what they were doing was horrendously wrong and they wanted to make him admit to something before his parents or an attorney talked to him.

Shameful behavior. Absolutely shameful.

Agreed on all points.

**A Town Called Malus**

But even if they did get him to agree to sign something, as soon as this story broke or his parents got involved they'd get dragged to court and that statement wouldn't be worth the paper it's written as it would have been acquired illegally.

**Ashiraya**

Hot damn. You yanks should take the kid to the electric chair and fast. The influence has already begun to spread.

https://twitter.com/DangerGuerrero/status/644200972093399040

Apocalypse nears!

**Relapse**

Crimson Heretic wrote:
This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.

It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.

**A Town Called Malus**

Relapse wrote:
Crimson Heretic wrote:
This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.

It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.

However, in this case, profiling may have definitely played a part.

The police officer, who had never met Ahmed before did say "Yup. That’s who I thought it was." when Ahmed was brought into the room. Short of Ahmed having a criminal record, which there is zero evidence of, what else would lead the police officer to say that?

**Frazzled**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Crimson Heretic wrote:
This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.

It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.

However, in this case, profiling may have definitely played a part.

The police officer, who had never met Ahmed before did say "Yup. That’s who I thought it was." when Ahmed was brought into the room. Short of Ahmed having a criminal record, which there is zero evidence of, what else would lead the police officer to say that?

And thats when he should have shut up and started screaming for a lawyer. Lesson learned. I shall have to re-advise GC to do so. Its been a few months. Correct me if I am wrong but the open case-thats the guts right, with the actual readout on the outside? (I thought I saw one version showing the readout). Of course its going to look more twitchy if you open it up.

I can't help but think that this could have been avoided if the engineering teacher's first thought was "cool, hey class anyone make their own clock yet? Check this out." and showed the class.
on the other hand, he might have and it might not have mattered...because...reasons.

**Relapse**

I'm with Kilkrazy in his question about the engineering teacher the clock was originally shown to. Where was he in all of this and why did no one speak with him about the clock?

**Frazzled**

Relapse wrote:
I'm with Kilkrazy in his question about the engineering teacher the clock was originally shown to. Where was he in all of this and why did no one speak with him about the clock?

i think we both know no one talked to him. The lack of competence by everyone involved would be shocking if unexpected.

**A Town Called Malus**

Frazzled wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Crimson Heretic wrote:
This just shows that america profiles..its a cycle, the irish, the indians, the african americans and so fourth...now we stink eye people of muslim lifestyle, hopefully next it will be people that shop at wal mart. its sad, that kid will be tarnished for life for trying to be creative and learn.

It was a stupid thing on the part of the school and police, but it's not racial profiling when you see this stupidity cuts across races. A 7 year old white kid got suspended for eating his pop tart into what his teacher thought was a gun shape, for instance. There have been other instances where zero tolerance has caused ridiculous actions on parts of schools, regardless of the student's race.

However, in this case, profiling may have definitely played a part.

The police officer, who had never met Ahmed before did say "Yup. That’s who I thought it was." when Ahmed was brought into the room. Short of Ahmed having a criminal record, which there is zero evidence of, what else would lead the police officer to say that?

And thats when he should have shut up and started screaming for a lawyer. Lesson learned. I shall have to re-advise GC to do so. Its been a few months. Correct me if I am wrong but the open case-thats the guts right, with the actual readout on the outside? (I thought I saw one version showing the readout). Of course its going to look more twitchy if you open it up.

I can't help but think that this could have been avoided if the engineering teacher's first thought was "cool, hey class anyone make their own clock yet? Check this out." and showed the class.
on the other hand, he might have and it might not have mattered...because...reasons.

Ahmed talks about what the clock was made of in a youtube video about this whole thing. I think it's in one of the articles I put on the OP. There was a digital display on the outside of the pencil case which he used to house the workings. You can see the back of it in the open case pictures, it's the red rectangle.

Found a picture where some engineer-y people have labelled the parts

Spoiler:

**Frazzled**

Thanks!

**Relapse**

Frazzled wrote:
Relapse wrote:
I'm with Kilkrazy in his question about the engineering teacher the clock was originally shown to. Where was he in all of this and why did no one speak with him about the clock?

i think we both know no one talked to him. The lack of competence by everyone involved would be shocking if unexpected.

It would have been ironic if these two had ended up in the office with the cops at the same time, the kid busted by the cops for a clock, and the kid busted by the cops for wearing an NRA shirt at school. Proof that zero tolerance stupidity cuts through racial lines:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/21/student-nra-shirt_n_3128715.html

**-Shrike-**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Found a picture where some engineer-y people have labelled the parts

Spoiler:

Just beneath the transformer, that looks like duct tape. Duct tape -> Transformer -> Mains Supply: That's the real reason to call the cops, don't plug anything taped together into the mains!

**Kanluwen**

It's electrical tape not duct tape.

**A Town Called Malus**

George Takei noticed the story and posted this to facebook:

You may have heard the story of Ahmed Mohamed, the 14-year old Dallas student who was arrested after bringing a home-made clock in to show his teacher. They believed it was a bomb, simply because Ahmed is a Muslim. Since I don't know how to reach this young man directly, I thought I'd simply post a letter to him here.

Dear Ahmed,

I’ve never met you, and it’s quite possible you’ve never heard of me, but my name is George Takei. I am many decades older than you, but your story and your experience—when you were arrested at your school simply because you brought in a clock for your teacher--struck a chord with me. You see, when I was a bit younger than you, I was also viewed by others as “the enemy” and treated as such, simply because I happened to look like the people who had attacked America.

Like you, I was just a kid trying to find his place in the world. I loved my country, and I looked forward to all the opportunities and challenges ahead. But my childhood was interrupted by fear and ignorance. When the authorities came for you because they believed you had built a bomb, I was reminded, in a way, of when the army came for us. They ordered us out of our home believing we were suspicious people because of our names, our faces, our ancestry. I spent my childhood in an internment camp because of that fear and ignorance.

But I want you to know, while America may have done a terrible thing to me and my family, and to 120,000 other Japanese Americans, I have great hope for this country, and I believe we do learn. There was a Japanese word we often said in the camps: Gaman. It means to keep on keeping on, with dignity and fortitude. I think you understand this word already. While certain school officials and police officers may have shown you the worst side of our nation, I understand many others have since shown you the best side. I was touched to hear you say that we all have to be true to ourselves.
Ahmed, you are now part of the story of America, and many will learn from your fine example. I see great things ahead for you.

**Mr. Burning**

“We have no evidence to support that there was an intention to create alarm or cause people to be concerned,” Boyd told reporters Wednesday.

Given enough time and a trip to radioshack......

**Psienesis**

Ustrello wrote:
I think in some cases the school is considered the parent, I may be wrong though. I am sure the aclu will step in fairly soon if his civil rights were violated.

Only in very specific circumstances and certainly not in a situation like this. Once he was being arrested, his parents should have been immediately notified and all questioning stopped before they and their lawyer arrived.

**Ustrello**

Psienesis wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
I think in some cases the school is considered the parent, I may be wrong though. I am sure the aclu will step in fairly soon if his civil rights were violated.

Only in very specific circumstances and certainly not in a situation like this. Once he was being arrested, his parents should have been immediately notified and all questioning stopped before they and their lawyer arrived.

Ah okay thank you. I knew I was kinda right but had a feeling it didn't extend this far, but you never know.