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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/22 10:41:21
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Fighter Pilot
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triplegrim wrote:I would guess either he is about the strenght of one of the top three chaos gods. Or he is about as strong as all 4 of them combined. Just judging from the narrative of 40k.
If he was stronger than all four combined, he wouldn't have to be battling them on a daily basis. He's probably very close to that level, however. Alternatively, he is in fact more powerful than all of them, but devotes a big enough chunk of his power to the Astronomican that the can't fully defeat the Ruinous Powers.
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When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/23 00:23:08
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
USA, Maine
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I'd agree that he matches them but it is equal.
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Painted armies:
Orks: 11000 points
Marines: 9500 points
Khorne Marines: 2500 points
Khorne Demons: 1500 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/23 00:36:03
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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asorel wrote: triplegrim wrote:I would guess either he is about the strenght of one of the top three chaos gods. Or he is about as strong as all 4 of them combined. Just judging from the narrative of 40k.
If he was stronger than all four combined, he wouldn't have to be battling them on a daily basis. He's probably very close to that level, however. Alternatively, he is in fact more powerful than all of them, but devotes a big enough chunk of his power to the Astronomican that the can't fully defeat the Ruinous Powers.
He seems to have them fenced in quite solidly though. They havent done much galaxy wide since the horus heresy, and their nibbles at cadia seems to be small compared to the threat from orks, tyranids and necrons.
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Let the galaxy burn. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/23 01:10:38
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Fighter Pilot
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triplegrim wrote: asorel wrote: triplegrim wrote:I would guess either he is about the strenght of one of the top three chaos gods. Or he is about as strong as all 4 of them combined. Just judging from the narrative of 40k.
If he was stronger than all four combined, he wouldn't have to be battling them on a daily basis. He's probably very close to that level, however. Alternatively, he is in fact more powerful than all of them, but devotes a big enough chunk of his power to the Astronomican that the can't fully defeat the Ruinous Powers.
He seems to have them fenced in quite solidly though. They havent done much galaxy wide since the horus heresy, and their nibbles at cadia seems to be small compared to the threat from orks, tyranids and necrons.
True. Just keep in mind that Chaos fights itself every so often as well, with Khorne slapping Slaanesh around, or Tzeentch and Nurgle slogging it out. They've also got other things to do beyond that, but those only take up a tiny fraction of their attention. The wills of the Chaos Gods aren't entirely focused on battling the Emperor, though I would imagine it comes close.
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When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/23 03:06:44
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Wicked Canoptek Wraith
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it should be 40K
I do like the Legion of the Damned being his form of demons, but I wish he also had the Lizardmen or some similar alternative.
Seraphon are badass, and deserve to be in 40K
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- 10000+ pts
Imperial Knights- 5 Standard Knights / 3 Cerastus Knights
Officio Assassinorum - 4 Assassins
CSM - 500pts? Maybe? Its from the Officio Assassinorum box so I'm pretty sure its not enough to run in a CAD
Vampire Lords- I have no idea I bought it like two days before I left country and they're still in storage so I'll have to see when I get back.] |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/23 15:23:12
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Mantorok wrote:
it should be 40K
I do like the Legion of the Damned being his form of demons, but I wish he also had the Lizardmen or some similar alternative.
Seraphon are badass, and deserve to be in 40K
Of all the things that can be said of the Emperor, one of the most-true is that he had a raging hatred for the non-human.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 01:23:06
Subject: Re:The Emperor's power level
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RogueSangre
The Cockatrice Malediction
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The Chaos gods are chumps. The real question is can the Emperor beat Kaldor Draigo?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 01:40:07
Subject: Re:The Emperor's power level
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Fighter Pilot
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When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 02:22:46
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot
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DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything.
He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between.
Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful.
If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons.
Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch.
The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 02:24:45
40k is 111% science.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 02:39:45
Subject: Re:The Emperor's power level
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
Maine
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SLAANESH PATROL!
Kills me every time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 10:29:21
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
You forget the astronomicon, which enables warp travel. Its usually highlighted as his main achievement and job.
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Let the galaxy burn. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 12:02:07
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Ruthless Interrogator
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fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything.
He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between.
Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful.
If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons.
Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch.
The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
Because he is powering the astronomicum and his personality is fractured. He cannot defeat them utterly because he himself is not 'complete'
Also you have absolutely no proof that the LoTD is a result of gene-tampering. To say that its the most likely cause is misleading.
Even if the LoTD are NOT the Emperor's version of daemons, there are also golden faced creatures that patrol the eye of terror.
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Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 18:53:20
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot
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DoomShakaLaka wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything.
He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between.
Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful.
If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons.
Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch.
The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
Because he is powering the astronomicum and his personality is fractured. He cannot defeat them utterly because he himself is not 'complete'
Again, he has a lot of help with the astronomican. 1000 psykers a day of help. And the Chaos gods seem perfectly capable of sending their followers through the warp to where they want them, when they're in the mood. The Chaos gods' personalities could also be considered "fractured" since they don't behave logically. Tzeentch schemes against himself. Nurgle gets over zealous with plagues, wiping out life and causing him to lose the power he's gained. Khorne urges his followers to be so filled with rage that it hinders them on the battlefield. Slaanesh can get so caught up in self-indulgence that he/she lets victory slip away. And the Emperor being "not complete" sounds the opposite of powerful. Even if he became complete, like Slaanesh, that doesn't mean he would dominate for long. Slaanesh was top dog of Chaos for a brief period after being born, then got knocked down several rungs. And even at peak power, Slaanesh failed to really lay a beatdown on any of the other gods. Khorne, for example, stopped Slaanesh from completely destroying Kaine. Nurgle saved Isha from Slaanesh. Despite being canonically the most powerful at the time, Slaanesh wasn't strong enough to kill or thwart either god.
Also you have absolutely no proof that the LoTD is a result of gene-tampering. To say that its the most likely cause is misleading.
Jigga what now?! It hasn't been 100% confirmed in the fluff, but it is BY FAR the most canon supported theory. Enlighten yourself:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Hawks
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Founding#Twenty_First_Founding
LotD are suggested numerous times to be the Fire Hawks, who were lost in the Warp. The Fire Hawks are from the Cursed 21st Founding. Every chapter in the 21st founding had their gene seed altered and "improved" upon, with all kinds of unexpected consequences.
Now show me the links to sources that support an alternate theory.
Even if the LoTD are NOT the Emperor's version of daemons, there are also golden faced creatures that patrol the eye of terror.
Source please. The only golden faced, Emperor serving daemon creatures I can think of are from Warhammer 50k, which is fanfiction.
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40k is 111% science.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 18:55:35
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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I estimate it precisely at...
908,675,123,456,789
Just in case you have trouble reading it...
(nine hundred eight trillion, six hundred seventy five billion, one hundred twenty three million, four hundred fifty six thousand, seven hundred and eighty nine)
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INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 19:13:54
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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Silverthorne wrote:Animus wrote: Silverthorne wrote:I think he has the poteintial to be the most powerful, but isn't because his consciousness is scattered and his warp presence, while massive, is inchoate. Some event will concentrate it (maybe his death in the material world), and then he'll be 'born' as a chaos god. Right now it's similar to the build up to slaanesh's birth, but on a much larger scale.
How do you figure?
The Emperor has only grown weaker since his death.
By absorbing the souls of 1000 (minimum) psykers a day. And being worshipped as a God by around a quadrillion people. The 'old' emperor could never manifest demons, like the emperor currently can. His body is weaker, sure, but Khorne doesn't even have a physical body, in fact it would probably be impossible for him to possess or create one, so it not really relevant to discussions of gods.
The old Emperor created the Astronomicon; a completely sentient Warp entity that acts as a lighthouse for the whole Galaxy (see: Talon of Horus). Said Astronomicon is so powerful that it, in and of itself, is creating Legions of "Angels of Fire" that are numerous enough and powerful enough to lay waste to thousands of worlds in the Eye of Terror, and to besiege the entire exterior of the region. If that isn't him spawning Daemons, then I don't know what is. Automatically Appended Next Post: fallinq wrote:
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
What, you mean besides the fact that he is being worshiped by quadrillions and gaining insane amounts of power from keeping the Imperium the way it is? You mean besides the exact same reason Chaos isn't actually trying to destroy the Imperium? Automatically Appended Next Post: @fallinq the Emperor is battling 4 immensely powerful Gods with a massive region of space that has been completely, irrevocably dominated by them. Chaos Undivided probably is more powerful than the God-Emperor, but Chaos spends so much time infighting that they don't have a hope of actually defeating - let alone consuming - the Emperor, while he spends every iota of energy he has trying to keep the Chaos Gods in check (ie not making a Chaos version of the Imperium of Man).
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/24 19:25:39
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote:There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 19:32:46
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Fixture of Dakka
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asorel wrote:but devotes a big enough chunk of his power to the Astronomican that the can't fully defeat the Ruinous Powers.
That's internet hogwash: repeated on the internet enough times people think it's true.
The Astronomicon was built thousands of years before the Emperor's Unification War. The Golden Throne is powered by it, not the other way around.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 19:33:48
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 20:19:25
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Fighter Pilot
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DarknessEternal wrote: asorel wrote:but devotes a big enough chunk of his power to the Astronomican that the can't fully defeat the Ruinous Powers.
That's internet hogwash: repeated on the internet enough times people think it's true.
The Astronomicon was built thousands of years before the Emperor's Unification War. The Golden Throne is powered by it, not the other way around.
" Constructed in M30 by the Emperor in preparation for the Great Crusade,[4] the "psychic light" of the Astronomican is beamed from Terra, from the Chamber of the Astronomican."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 21:02:37
When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 20:23:56
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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DarknessEternal wrote: asorel wrote:but devotes a big enough chunk of his power to the Astronomican that the can't fully defeat the Ruinous Powers.
That's internet hogwash: repeated on the internet enough times people think it's true.
The Astronomicon was built thousands of years before the Emperor's Unification War. The Golden Throne is powered by it, not the other way around.
No, the Golden Throne is an entirely-separate relic they dug up out of the deserts of Terra. It's not linked to the Astronomican in any operational sense. The one does not require the other to function.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 21:01:39
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person. Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself) This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades. At least thats how I've heard it.  Citation needed. Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything. He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between. Burden of Proof is on you, plus it doesn't help your position either when all the modern BRB's I can think of mention that the Emperor is all that is holding back Chaos from devouring the Universe. Were Chaos stronger than the Emperor... well there wouldn't even be a fight to begin with. Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful. If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons. Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch. The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go. So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more. Because he is powering the astronomicum and his personality is fractured. He cannot defeat them utterly because he himself is not 'complete' Again, he has a lot of help with the astronomican. 1000 psykers a day of help. And the Chaos gods seem perfectly capable of sending their followers through the warp to where they want them, when they're in the mood. The Chaos gods' personalities could also be considered "fractured" since they don't behave logically. Tzeentch schemes against himself. Nurgle gets over zealous with plagues, wiping out life and causing him to lose the power he's gained. Khorne urges his followers to be so filled with rage that it hinders them on the battlefield. Slaanesh can get so caught up in self-indulgence that he/she lets victory slip away. And the Emperor being "not complete" sounds the opposite of powerful. Even if he became complete, like Slaanesh, that doesn't mean he would dominate for long. Slaanesh was top dog of Chaos for a brief period after being born, then got knocked down several rungs. And even at peak power, Slaanesh failed to really lay a beatdown on any of the other gods. Khorne, for example, stopped Slaanesh from completely destroying Kaine. Nurgle saved Isha from Slaanesh. Despite being canonically the most powerful at the time, Slaanesh wasn't strong enough to kill or thwart either god. Also you have absolutely no proof that the LoTD is a result of gene-tampering. To say that its the most likely cause is misleading. Jigga what now?! It hasn't been 100% confirmed in the fluff, but it is BY FAR the most canon supported theory. Enlighten yourself: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Hawks http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Founding#Twenty_First_Founding LotD are suggested numerous times to be the Fire Hawks, who were lost in the Warp. The Fire Hawks are from the Cursed 21st Founding. Every chapter in the 21st founding had their gene seed altered and "improved" upon, with all kinds of unexpected consequences. Now show me the links to sources that support an alternate theory. Even if the LoTD are NOT the Emperor's version of daemons, there are also golden faced creatures that patrol the eye of terror. Source please. The only golden faced, Emperor serving daemon creatures I can think of are from Warhammer 50k, which is fanfiction. The Legion of the Damned being the Fire Hawks is old, outdated fluff. The Codex shoots that down considering the Legion appeared before the Fire Hawks vanished, and a strange gene mutation does not result in one becoming a legion of immortal ghost warriors that cannot die. Plus they're probably more numerous than the Fire Hawks supposed survivors, and the Astronomicon is mentioned as creating legions of angels of fire that purge entire planets of life in the Eye of Terror. Oh, and even the Lexicanum isn't a source. A source is actually quoting material from source material, not a second party that cannot be verified.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/24 21:03:09
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 22:14:35
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Heroic Senior Officer
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KaptinBadrukk wrote:I estimate it precisely at...
908,675,123,456,789
Just in case you have trouble reading it...
(nine hundred eight trillion, six hundred seventy five billion, one hundred twenty three million, four hundred fifty six thousand, seven hundred and eighty nine)
Give or take a few million
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/24 22:34:49
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Ruthless Interrogator
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Wyzilla wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything.
He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between. Burden of Proof is on you, plus it doesn't help your position either when all the modern BRB's I can think of mention that the Emperor is all that is holding back Chaos from devouring the Universe. Were Chaos stronger than the Emperor... well there wouldn't even be a fight to begin with.
Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful.
If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons.
Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch.
The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
Because he is powering the astronomicum and his personality is fractured. He cannot defeat them utterly because he himself is not 'complete'
Again, he has a lot of help with the astronomican. 1000 psykers a day of help. And the Chaos gods seem perfectly capable of sending their followers through the warp to where they want them, when they're in the mood. The Chaos gods' personalities could also be considered "fractured" since they don't behave logically. Tzeentch schemes against himself. Nurgle gets over zealous with plagues, wiping out life and causing him to lose the power he's gained. Khorne urges his followers to be so filled with rage that it hinders them on the battlefield. Slaanesh can get so caught up in self-indulgence that he/she lets victory slip away. And the Emperor being "not complete" sounds the opposite of powerful. Even if he became complete, like Slaanesh, that doesn't mean he would dominate for long. Slaanesh was top dog of Chaos for a brief period after being born, then got knocked down several rungs. And even at peak power, Slaanesh failed to really lay a beatdown on any of the other gods. Khorne, for example, stopped Slaanesh from completely destroying Kaine. Nurgle saved Isha from Slaanesh. Despite being canonically the most powerful at the time, Slaanesh wasn't strong enough to kill or thwart either god.
Also you have absolutely no proof that the LoTD is a result of gene-tampering. To say that its the most likely cause is misleading.
Jigga what now?! It hasn't been 100% confirmed in the fluff, but it is BY FAR the most canon supported theory. Enlighten yourself:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Hawks
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Founding#Twenty_First_Founding
LotD are suggested numerous times to be the Fire Hawks, who were lost in the Warp. The Fire Hawks are from the Cursed 21st Founding. Every chapter in the 21st founding had their gene seed altered and "improved" upon, with all kinds of unexpected consequences.
Now show me the links to sources that support an alternate theory.
Even if the LoTD are NOT the Emperor's version of daemons, there are also golden faced creatures that patrol the eye of terror.
Source please. The only golden faced, Emperor serving daemon creatures I can think of are from Warhammer 50k, which is fanfiction.
The Legion of the Damned being the Fire Hawks is old, outdated fluff. The Codex shoots that down considering the Legion appeared before the Fire Hawks vanished, and a strange gene mutation does not result in one becoming a legion of immortal ghost warriors that cannot die. Plus they're probably more numerous than the Fire Hawks supposed survivors, and the Astronomicon is mentioned as creating legions of angels of fire that purge entire planets of life in the Eye of Terror.
Oh, and even the Lexicanum isn't a source. A source is actually quoting material from source material, not a second party that cannot be verified.
I think it was in a novel where a golden daemon dude comes on a chaos space marine ( iron warriors?) bridge and warns them not to go on any further talking about how he's not the one that they should be afraid of as he is merely a musical note played by the musician( paraphrased). I'm too lazy to look it back up at this second but ill try tomorrow.
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Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 01:14:10
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot
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Wyzilla wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything.
He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between. Burden of Proof is on you, plus it doesn't help your position either when all the modern BRB's I can think of mention that the Emperor is all that is holding back Chaos from devouring the Universe. Were Chaos stronger than the Emperor... well there wouldn't even be a fight to begin with.
Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful.
If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons.
Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch.
The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
Because he is powering the astronomicum and his personality is fractured. He cannot defeat them utterly because he himself is not 'complete'
Again, he has a lot of help with the astronomican. 1000 psykers a day of help. And the Chaos gods seem perfectly capable of sending their followers through the warp to where they want them, when they're in the mood. The Chaos gods' personalities could also be considered "fractured" since they don't behave logically. Tzeentch schemes against himself. Nurgle gets over zealous with plagues, wiping out life and causing him to lose the power he's gained. Khorne urges his followers to be so filled with rage that it hinders them on the battlefield. Slaanesh can get so caught up in self-indulgence that he/she lets victory slip away. And the Emperor being "not complete" sounds the opposite of powerful. Even if he became complete, like Slaanesh, that doesn't mean he would dominate for long. Slaanesh was top dog of Chaos for a brief period after being born, then got knocked down several rungs. And even at peak power, Slaanesh failed to really lay a beatdown on any of the other gods. Khorne, for example, stopped Slaanesh from completely destroying Kaine. Nurgle saved Isha from Slaanesh. Despite being canonically the most powerful at the time, Slaanesh wasn't strong enough to kill or thwart either god.
Also you have absolutely no proof that the LoTD is a result of gene-tampering. To say that its the most likely cause is misleading.
Jigga what now?! It hasn't been 100% confirmed in the fluff, but it is BY FAR the most canon supported theory. Enlighten yourself:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Hawks
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Founding#Twenty_First_Founding
LotD are suggested numerous times to be the Fire Hawks, who were lost in the Warp. The Fire Hawks are from the Cursed 21st Founding. Every chapter in the 21st founding had their gene seed altered and "improved" upon, with all kinds of unexpected consequences.
Now show me the links to sources that support an alternate theory.
Even if the LoTD are NOT the Emperor's version of daemons, there are also golden faced creatures that patrol the eye of terror.
Source please. The only golden faced, Emperor serving daemon creatures I can think of are from Warhammer 50k, which is fanfiction.
The Legion of the Damned being the Fire Hawks is old, outdated fluff. The Codex shoots that down considering the Legion appeared before the Fire Hawks vanished, and a strange gene mutation does not result in one becoming a legion of immortal ghost warriors that cannot die. Plus they're probably more numerous than the Fire Hawks supposed survivors, and the Astronomicon is mentioned as creating legions of angels of fire that purge entire planets of life in the Eye of Terror.
Oh, and even the Lexicanum isn't a source. A source is actually quoting material from source material, not a second party that cannot be verified.
Hey now. EVERYTHING in those Lexicanum articles has a canon source in the footnotes. It's a lot easier to just link to those articles than to type out a dozen sources, many of which you might not even be able to look up because they're print sources.
As for the Astronomican oozing out legions of angels that regularly pwn entire daemon worlds with ease... holy  . That is such crappy, Kaldor Drago-carving-his-initials-into-Mortarian's-heart-and-then-doing-a-sick-360-off-a-Bloodthirster-with-his-wicked-radical-Emperor's-Holy-Skateboard level  ing level fluff. I'm not saying it's not real. I'm just saying it sucks. That completely undermines Chaos as a serious threat. What is that from? Is it a Ward thing? It's a Ward thing, isn't it?
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40k is 111% science.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 01:20:51
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman
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something that has never really been discussed is that emps, through all his psychic influence in the warp, should actually have a realm within it, as well as his own kind of daemons.
(Im liking references to AOS right now, pls emps have stormcast eternals e.g. fantasy space marines)
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The Imperium stands on the honour of silent men
- Motto of the Ordos Obscures
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 01:25:05
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Gargantuan Gargant
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fallinq wrote: Wyzilla wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything.
He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between. Burden of Proof is on you, plus it doesn't help your position either when all the modern BRB's I can think of mention that the Emperor is all that is holding back Chaos from devouring the Universe. Were Chaos stronger than the Emperor... well there wouldn't even be a fight to begin with.
Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful.
If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons.
Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch.
The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
Because he is powering the astronomicum and his personality is fractured. He cannot defeat them utterly because he himself is not 'complete'
Again, he has a lot of help with the astronomican. 1000 psykers a day of help. And the Chaos gods seem perfectly capable of sending their followers through the warp to where they want them, when they're in the mood. The Chaos gods' personalities could also be considered "fractured" since they don't behave logically. Tzeentch schemes against himself. Nurgle gets over zealous with plagues, wiping out life and causing him to lose the power he's gained. Khorne urges his followers to be so filled with rage that it hinders them on the battlefield. Slaanesh can get so caught up in self-indulgence that he/she lets victory slip away. And the Emperor being "not complete" sounds the opposite of powerful. Even if he became complete, like Slaanesh, that doesn't mean he would dominate for long. Slaanesh was top dog of Chaos for a brief period after being born, then got knocked down several rungs. And even at peak power, Slaanesh failed to really lay a beatdown on any of the other gods. Khorne, for example, stopped Slaanesh from completely destroying Kaine. Nurgle saved Isha from Slaanesh. Despite being canonically the most powerful at the time, Slaanesh wasn't strong enough to kill or thwart either god.
Also you have absolutely no proof that the LoTD is a result of gene-tampering. To say that its the most likely cause is misleading.
Jigga what now?! It hasn't been 100% confirmed in the fluff, but it is BY FAR the most canon supported theory. Enlighten yourself:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Hawks
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Founding#Twenty_First_Founding
LotD are suggested numerous times to be the Fire Hawks, who were lost in the Warp. The Fire Hawks are from the Cursed 21st Founding. Every chapter in the 21st founding had their gene seed altered and "improved" upon, with all kinds of unexpected consequences.
Now show me the links to sources that support an alternate theory.
Even if the LoTD are NOT the Emperor's version of daemons, there are also golden faced creatures that patrol the eye of terror.
Source please. The only golden faced, Emperor serving daemon creatures I can think of are from Warhammer 50k, which is fanfiction.
The Legion of the Damned being the Fire Hawks is old, outdated fluff. The Codex shoots that down considering the Legion appeared before the Fire Hawks vanished, and a strange gene mutation does not result in one becoming a legion of immortal ghost warriors that cannot die. Plus they're probably more numerous than the Fire Hawks supposed survivors, and the Astronomicon is mentioned as creating legions of angels of fire that purge entire planets of life in the Eye of Terror.
Oh, and even the Lexicanum isn't a source. A source is actually quoting material from source material, not a second party that cannot be verified.
Hey now. EVERYTHING in those Lexicanum articles has a canon source in the footnotes. It's a lot easier to just link to those articles than to type out a dozen sources, many of which you might not even be able to look up because they're print sources.
As for the Astronomican oozing out legions of angels that regularly pwn entire daemon worlds with ease... holy  . That is such crappy, Kaldor Drago-carving-his-initials-into-Mortarian's-heart-and-then-doing-a-sick-360-off-a-Bloodthirster-with-his-wicked-radical-Emperor's-Holy-Skateboard level  ing level fluff. I'm not saying it's not real. I'm just saying it sucks. That completely undermines Chaos as a serious threat. What is that from? Is it a Ward thing? It's a Ward thing, isn't it?
Nope, it's from Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Talon of Horus novel. Honestly, I found it to be quite interesting as it shows the aspect of the Emperor's might in having actual physical tangibility in his attempts to ward off Chaos from the physical realm. In what way does it downplay Chaos' threat?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 01:25:09
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Fighter Pilot
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Emperor Pigeon wrote:something that has never really been discussed is that emps, through all his psychic influence in the warp, should actually have a realm within it, as well as his own kind of daemons.
(Im liking references to AOS right now, pls emps have stormcast eternals e.g. fantasy space marines)
The Emperor is the god of Humanity (and then not a god at all). His realm is the Imperium. I like to think of the LotD as his answer to Daemons,
And the less is said of Smegmar, the better.
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When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 01:27:17
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Fighter Pilot
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Grimskul wrote: fallinq wrote: Wyzilla wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything.
He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between. Burden of Proof is on you, plus it doesn't help your position either when all the modern BRB's I can think of mention that the Emperor is all that is holding back Chaos from devouring the Universe. Were Chaos stronger than the Emperor... well there wouldn't even be a fight to begin with.
Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful.
If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons.
Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch.
The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
Because he is powering the astronomicum and his personality is fractured. He cannot defeat them utterly because he himself is not 'complete'
Again, he has a lot of help with the astronomican. 1000 psykers a day of help. And the Chaos gods seem perfectly capable of sending their followers through the warp to where they want them, when they're in the mood. The Chaos gods' personalities could also be considered "fractured" since they don't behave logically. Tzeentch schemes against himself. Nurgle gets over zealous with plagues, wiping out life and causing him to lose the power he's gained. Khorne urges his followers to be so filled with rage that it hinders them on the battlefield. Slaanesh can get so caught up in self-indulgence that he/she lets victory slip away. And the Emperor being "not complete" sounds the opposite of powerful. Even if he became complete, like Slaanesh, that doesn't mean he would dominate for long. Slaanesh was top dog of Chaos for a brief period after being born, then got knocked down several rungs. And even at peak power, Slaanesh failed to really lay a beatdown on any of the other gods. Khorne, for example, stopped Slaanesh from completely destroying Kaine. Nurgle saved Isha from Slaanesh. Despite being canonically the most powerful at the time, Slaanesh wasn't strong enough to kill or thwart either god.
Also you have absolutely no proof that the LoTD is a result of gene-tampering. To say that its the most likely cause is misleading.
Jigga what now?! It hasn't been 100% confirmed in the fluff, but it is BY FAR the most canon supported theory. Enlighten yourself:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Hawks
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Founding#Twenty_First_Founding
LotD are suggested numerous times to be the Fire Hawks, who were lost in the Warp. The Fire Hawks are from the Cursed 21st Founding. Every chapter in the 21st founding had their gene seed altered and "improved" upon, with all kinds of unexpected consequences.
Now show me the links to sources that support an alternate theory.
Even if the LoTD are NOT the Emperor's version of daemons, there are also golden faced creatures that patrol the eye of terror.
Source please. The only golden faced, Emperor serving daemon creatures I can think of are from Warhammer 50k, which is fanfiction.
The Legion of the Damned being the Fire Hawks is old, outdated fluff. The Codex shoots that down considering the Legion appeared before the Fire Hawks vanished, and a strange gene mutation does not result in one becoming a legion of immortal ghost warriors that cannot die. Plus they're probably more numerous than the Fire Hawks supposed survivors, and the Astronomicon is mentioned as creating legions of angels of fire that purge entire planets of life in the Eye of Terror.
Oh, and even the Lexicanum isn't a source. A source is actually quoting material from source material, not a second party that cannot be verified.
Hey now. EVERYTHING in those Lexicanum articles has a canon source in the footnotes. It's a lot easier to just link to those articles than to type out a dozen sources, many of which you might not even be able to look up because they're print sources.
As for the Astronomican oozing out legions of angels that regularly pwn entire daemon worlds with ease... holy  . That is such crappy, Kaldor Drago-carving-his-initials-into-Mortarian's-heart-and-then-doing-a-sick-360-off-a-Bloodthirster-with-his-wicked-radical-Emperor's-Holy-Skateboard level  ing level fluff. I'm not saying it's not real. I'm just saying it sucks. That completely undermines Chaos as a serious threat. What is that from? Is it a Ward thing? It's a Ward thing, isn't it?
Nope, it's from Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Talon of Horus novel. Honestly, I found it to be quite interesting as it shows the aspect of the Emperor's might in having actual physical tangibility in his attempts to ward off Chaos from the physical realm. In what way does it downplay Chaos' threat?
I think Failbaddon does well enough making a mockery of Chaos without any help from Big E.
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When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 01:33:33
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman
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asorel wrote: Emperor Pigeon wrote:something that has never really been discussed is that emps, through all his psychic influence in the warp, should actually have a realm within it, as well as his own kind of daemons.
(Im liking references to AOS right now, pls emps have stormcast eternals e.g. fantasy space marines)
The Emperor is the god of Humanity (and then not a god at all). His realm is the Imperium. I like to think of the LotD as his answer to Daemons,
And the less is said of Smegmar, the better.
True about the daemons but really, the Imperium is his realm? He does not really exist in the physical plane apart from a corpse on top of a golden pyramid. I'm one of Emp's staunchest supporters but you cant deny that a psychic presence that powerful should coalesce some kind of tangible realm in the same way the chaos gods do.
(Also the more important question is what kind of crunch you could apply to him) Chaos weep in fear
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The Imperium stands on the honour of silent men
- Motto of the Ordos Obscures
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 01:42:50
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Fighter Pilot
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Emperor Pigeon wrote: asorel wrote: Emperor Pigeon wrote:something that has never really been discussed is that emps, through all his psychic influence in the warp, should actually have a realm within it, as well as his own kind of daemons.
(Im liking references to AOS right now, pls emps have stormcast eternals e.g. fantasy space marines)
The Emperor is the god of Humanity (and then not a god at all). His realm is the Imperium. I like to think of the LotD as his answer to Daemons,
And the less is said of Smegmar, the better.
True about the daemons but really, the Imperium is his realm? He does not really exist in the physical plane apart from a corpse on top of a golden pyramid. I'm one of Emp's staunchest supporters but you cant deny that a psychic presence that powerful should coalesce some kind of tangible realm in the same way the chaos gods do.
(Also the more important question is what kind of crunch you could apply to him) Chaos weep in fear
I think it depends on how voluntary realm-creation is. I can see Emps, should be have the choice, elect to devote his physic will to enriching the Imperium and protecting the species he's trying to save.
Also, it may be argued that, while the Emperor certainly has a presence in the Warp, he is not of the Warp. He doesn't reside in it or rely on it the way the gods do.
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When the only tool you have is a Skyhammer, every army begins to resemble a nail. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 01:57:22
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot
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Grimskul wrote: fallinq wrote: Wyzilla wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: fallinq wrote: DoomShakaLaka wrote: Psienesis wrote:The Emperor-as-Man and the Emperor-as-Warp-God might not be the same person.
Right now the Emperor of Man is essentially the 5th and most powerful chaos God (trumping even Gork and Mork who combined beat out Khorne as he single-handedly hold back the main 4 by himself)
This is of course the Emperor after he removed compassion from himself (which likely also exists in the warp as a separate entity) and can be considered to be a completely different being from the man who fought the Great Crusades.
At least thats how I've heard it.
 Citation needed.
Seriously guys, where's the proof that the Emperor in the Warp is stronger than the big 4? If he is, then we must conclude he gives far less of a crap about his followers than the Chaos Gods, because he interferes far less in mortal affairs. We have very few examples of him getting off his lazy golden butt to do anything.
He probably sent a big warp storm to wipe out Vandire's fleet. That was 4000 years ago. There have been a few other incidences of warp storms like this, but they're few and far between. Burden of Proof is on you, plus it doesn't help your position either when all the modern BRB's I can think of mention that the Emperor is all that is holding back Chaos from devouring the Universe. Were Chaos stronger than the Emperor... well there wouldn't even be a fight to begin with.
Living Saints are the closest thing to Daemon Princes for the Emperor. They're much rarer than Daemon Princes, and not particularly more powerful.
If LoTD are considered his other daemons, they're once again much fewer in number. Also, they were probably a result of gene tampering in the Cursed Founding, meaning the Emperor didn't even use his own power to create his daemons.
Warp storms and Living Saints are the ONLY direct evidence that all that Emperor worship is doing anything in the Warp at all. And the first could even be written off as coincidences since the Warp is random, or Tzeentch pulling some convoluted scheme. Heck, the Living Saints could ALSO be some scheme from Tzeentch.
The Chaos Gods also spend more time fighting each other than they spend united. They're not all facing off against the Emperor together and failing to beat him. Oh, and by the way, the Emp surviving as a vegetable and an oppressive theocracy spreading across the galaxy in his name is the best thing that could have happened for Chaos. He didn't pull one over on the gods. The Horus Heresy went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
So if the Emperor is really so uber powerful, why hasn't he curb stomped the Chaos gods while they're divided? Why doesn't he help his side out more? Sorry, I'm not buying it. This thread is a pitiful attempt at Imperial propaganda, nothing more.
Because he is powering the astronomicum and his personality is fractured. He cannot defeat them utterly because he himself is not 'complete'
Again, he has a lot of help with the astronomican. 1000 psykers a day of help. And the Chaos gods seem perfectly capable of sending their followers through the warp to where they want them, when they're in the mood. The Chaos gods' personalities could also be considered "fractured" since they don't behave logically. Tzeentch schemes against himself. Nurgle gets over zealous with plagues, wiping out life and causing him to lose the power he's gained. Khorne urges his followers to be so filled with rage that it hinders them on the battlefield. Slaanesh can get so caught up in self-indulgence that he/she lets victory slip away. And the Emperor being "not complete" sounds the opposite of powerful. Even if he became complete, like Slaanesh, that doesn't mean he would dominate for long. Slaanesh was top dog of Chaos for a brief period after being born, then got knocked down several rungs. And even at peak power, Slaanesh failed to really lay a beatdown on any of the other gods. Khorne, for example, stopped Slaanesh from completely destroying Kaine. Nurgle saved Isha from Slaanesh. Despite being canonically the most powerful at the time, Slaanesh wasn't strong enough to kill or thwart either god.
Also you have absolutely no proof that the LoTD is a result of gene-tampering. To say that its the most likely cause is misleading.
Jigga what now?! It hasn't been 100% confirmed in the fluff, but it is BY FAR the most canon supported theory. Enlighten yourself:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Hawks
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Founding#Twenty_First_Founding
LotD are suggested numerous times to be the Fire Hawks, who were lost in the Warp. The Fire Hawks are from the Cursed 21st Founding. Every chapter in the 21st founding had their gene seed altered and "improved" upon, with all kinds of unexpected consequences.
Now show me the links to sources that support an alternate theory.
Even if the LoTD are NOT the Emperor's version of daemons, there are also golden faced creatures that patrol the eye of terror.
Source please. The only golden faced, Emperor serving daemon creatures I can think of are from Warhammer 50k, which is fanfiction.
The Legion of the Damned being the Fire Hawks is old, outdated fluff. The Codex shoots that down considering the Legion appeared before the Fire Hawks vanished, and a strange gene mutation does not result in one becoming a legion of immortal ghost warriors that cannot die. Plus they're probably more numerous than the Fire Hawks supposed survivors, and the Astronomicon is mentioned as creating legions of angels of fire that purge entire planets of life in the Eye of Terror.
Oh, and even the Lexicanum isn't a source. A source is actually quoting material from source material, not a second party that cannot be verified.
Hey now. EVERYTHING in those Lexicanum articles has a canon source in the footnotes. It's a lot easier to just link to those articles than to type out a dozen sources, many of which you might not even be able to look up because they're print sources.
As for the Astronomican oozing out legions of angels that regularly pwn entire daemon worlds with ease... holy  . That is such crappy, Kaldor Drago-carving-his-initials-into-Mortarian's-heart-and-then-doing-a-sick-360-off-a-Bloodthirster-with-his-wicked-radical-Emperor's-Holy-Skateboard level  ing level fluff. I'm not saying it's not real. I'm just saying it sucks. That completely undermines Chaos as a serious threat. What is that from? Is it a Ward thing? It's a Ward thing, isn't it?
Nope, it's from Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Talon of Horus novel. Honestly, I found it to be quite interesting as it shows the aspect of the Emperor's might in having actual physical tangibility in his attempts to ward off Chaos from the physical realm. In what way does it downplay Chaos' threat?
Imagine if some enemy of the Imperium broke into the Imperial palace, smacked the Emperor in the face, and got clean away, laughing about it the whole time. Now imagine this happened repeatedly, and the Imperial forces failed to do anything about it. The Eye of Terror is Chaos's home turf. It's where the majority of Chaos Space Marines live. It's home to countless daemons. The Chaos gods bend reality itself there. It's the place in real-space where Chaos is the absolute STRONGEST. It's the closest thing they have to a home base. A bunch of flaming angels running around exterminatusing planets in the Eye with nothing stopping them is as much an insult to Chaos as someone regularly sucker-punching through the defenses of Holy Terra with laughable ease would be to the Imperium. It makes the faction look wimpy and ineffectual. Why be afraid of Chaos if angels from the Astronomican can nuke planets at will in the one place in the universe where Chaos is mightiest?
Aaron Dembski-Bowden has written some good stuff, but I really wish he hadn't done this.
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40k is 111% science.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/09/25 02:04:18
Subject: The Emperor's power level
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Fighter Pilot
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fallinq wrote:
Imagine if some enemy of the Imperium broke into the Imperial palace, smacked the Emperor in the face, and got clean away, laughing about it the whole time. Now imagine this happened repeatedly, and the Imperial forces failed to do anything about it. The Eye of Terror is Chaos's home turf. It's where the majority of Chaos Space Marines live. It's home to countless daemons. The Chaos gods bend reality itself there. It's the place in real-space where Chaos is the absolute STRONGEST. It's the closest thing they have to a home base. A bunch of flaming angels running around exterminatusing planets in the Eye with nothing stopping them is as much an insult to Chaos as someone regularly sucker-punching through the defenses of Holy Terra with laughable ease would be to the Imperium. It makes the faction look wimpy and ineffectual. Why be afraid of Chaos if angels from the Astronomican can nuke planets at will in the one place in the universe where Chaos is mightiest?
Aaron Dembski-Bowden has written some good stuff, but I really wish he hadn't done this.
That does happen, just to a lesser extent. The Custodes need to beat back Daemon incursions pretty regularly.
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