American Airlines takes its turn in the Spotlight

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**Ghazkuul**

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/airline-apologizes-for-stopping-wounded-1263015970242614.html

Good work AA

**Spetulhu**

At least they apologized instead of trying to bluff it off somehow. Hope they manage to train their personnel better in the future so this doesn't happen again.

**nkelsch**

But if the plane was full, where was the service dog supposed to go? I have been on many flights where people bring larger dogs and larger children on, did not get a seat for them and then there is literally no where to put them on the plane. I have seen people try to carry 4 year olds on as if they were infants to avoid buying a ticket. I have seen people bring large dogs on as if they were carry-ons. Considering I have been bitten by a dog and baby pooped dropped on me on air planes due to there simply being zero room for them, I as a passenger on those planes want them to have their own seats. Seats for dogs, seats for babies. I don't care if the people have to pay for it or the air line needs to give free seats away, but on a full plane, it is not reasonable to allow someone to sit with a dog/baby on their lap the entire flight.

If the plane was full, where was this dog supposed to go?

Sounds like they need to allow people to get a free 'seat' allocated for service animals at the time of booking.

**jhe90**

if you have special requirements, if you want to have a hassle free situation all this stuff needs to be sorted before you arrive at the airport. you need to allocate seats for everyone including the extras and such,

airlines need to have the option for declaring it but if they do and you don't then if theres no room, your dig/kid or such cannot fly.
priority goes to those planned and declared extra and special allocated seats. if theres spare and you can fit on, fine but if not, bad luck.

its a two way street

**nkelsch**

To travel with an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you’ll need to contact the Reservations desk of the airline operating your flight (American or US Airways) at least 48 hours before your flight and submit the required documentation.

Cabin rules
Animal must fit on your lap, at your feet or under your seat
Animals must be clean, well behaved and under your control at all times
If the animal is too large, it will need to be checked and travel in a kennel
Seating options
For security reasons, service animals can’t block any aisle
You can’t sit in an exit row when traveling with service animals
If you’d like seating, contact the airline operating your flight (American or US Airways) before your flight

Regardless of the paperwork, that dog would have need to be checked in a kennel. There would have been no room at his feet for a dog that size and it wouldn't have fit in a travel kennel which could go under the seat in front of you. If there was empty seats, it probably wouldn't have been a big deal but there were none. He probably needed to book an explicit seat before travel.

Sounds like the issue is someone didn't want to check their dog and was trying to use their status to breach regulations and ran into a full plane.

**Frazzled**

jhe90 wrote:
if you have special requirements, if you want to have a hassle free situation all this stuff needs to be sorted before you arrive at the airport. you need to allocate seats for everyone including the extras and such,

airlines need to have the option for declaring it but if they do and you don't then if theres no room, your dig/kid or such cannot fly.
priority goes to those planned and declared extra and special allocated seats. if theres spare and you can fit on, fine but if not, bad luck.

its a two way street

From the article they did call ahead and was booked on no problem with said doggie. Doggie can kick it in kitchen area. He'd love that.

Doge says: doge...so much drama...not enough treats.

**nkelsch**

Frazzled wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
if you have special requirements, if you want to have a hassle free situation all this stuff needs to be sorted before you arrive at the airport. you need to allocate seats for everyone including the extras and such,

airlines need to have the option for declaring it but if they do and you don't then if theres no room, your dig/kid or such cannot fly.
priority goes to those planned and declared extra and special allocated seats. if theres spare and you can fit on, fine but if not, bad luck.

its a two way street

From the article they did call ahead and was booked on no problem with said doggie. Doggie can kick it in kitchen area. He'd love that.

Doge says: doge...so much drama...not enough treats.

If the dog was booked, he would have had a seat ticket. Apparently he didn't have a ticket.

If the dog was mentioned to be a service animal, but not mentioned that he was too big to ride along on a plane, the airlines are not psychic and can't confirm if the dog is too big. The owner should have known that without an explicit seat ticket, the dog would have needed to be kenneled due to size.

**Frazzled**

The article doesn't say that actually.
I'd imagine there are actual rules about such things and that they were followed.

Particularly interesting as the dog was flying to receive a service award. Dog say: I'll take that in steak!

"Your dog just lost a fight with a chair"
-trainer about Rodney

"That dog deserves steak EVERY day."
-same about TBone El Magnifico

**nkelsch**

Frazzled wrote:
The article doesn't say that actually.
I'd imagine there are actual rules about such things and that they were followed.

Particularly interesting as the dog was flying to receive a service award. Dog say: I'll take that in steak!

"Your dog just lost a fight with a chair"
-trainer about Rodney

"That dog deserves steak EVERY day."
-same about TBone El Magnifico

American Airlines website with the regulations does.

So since AA requires dogs which can't fit under the seat in front to be kenneled or have a designated seat ticket... I don't see how a large dog with no ticket was expected to fly on a full plane.

Kennel or full seat, those are the only two options for a dog that size. Seems like neither was followed.

**Ghazkuul**

nkelsch wrote:
To travel with an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you’ll need to contact the Reservations desk of the airline operating your flight (American or US Airways) at least 48 hours before your flight and submit the required documentation.

Cabin rules
Animal must fit on your lap, at your feet or under your seat
Animals must be clean, well behaved and under your control at all times
If the animal is too large, it will need to be checked and travel in a kennel
Seating options
For security reasons, service animals can’t block any aisle
You can’t sit in an exit row when traveling with service animals
If you’d like seating, contact the airline operating your flight (American or US Airways) before your flight

Regardless of the paperwork, that dog would have need to be checked in a kennel. There would have been no room at his feet for a dog that size and it wouldn't have fit in a travel kennel which could go under the seat in front of you. If there was empty seats, it probably wouldn't have been a big deal but there were none. He probably needed to book an explicit seat before travel.

Sounds like the issue is someone didn't want to check their dog and was trying to use their status to breach regulations and ran into a full plane.

Checking animals is bordering on Animal Abuse, the horror stories I have heard about those animals is disgusting. and a dog that size could have comfortably fit if they gave him an Emergency exit seat.

**Frazzled**

nkelsch wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
The article doesn't say that actually.
I'd imagine there are actual rules about such things and that they were followed.

Particularly interesting as the dog was flying to receive a service award. Dog say: I'll take that in steak!

"Your dog just lost a fight with a chair"
-trainer about Rodney

"That dog deserves steak EVERY day."
-same about TBone El Magnifico

American Airlines website with the regulations does.

So since AA requires dogs which can't fit under the seat in front to be kenneled or have a designated seat ticket... I don't see how a large dog with no ticket was expected to fly on a full plane.

Kennel or full seat, those are the only two options for a dog that size. Seems like neither was followed.

The article does not say the dog didn't have a seat.

**Inquisitor Lord Bane**

If the flight was full then the flight was full, he can get on the next one with a seat for his dog. At no time should they have questioned him about his service animal beyond what they are legally allowed to ask. Period.

**Ghazkuul**

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:
If the flight was full then the flight was full, he can get on the next one with a seat for his dog. At no time should they have questioned him about his service animal beyond what they are legally allowed to ask. Period.

A side note to this story. When will the Airlines finally be told to stop overbooking flights to ensure they fill seats? The number of times I have had to rebook flights, or was delayed in some random city because someone overbooked a flight is astounding.

**nkelsch**

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:
If the flight was full then the flight was full, he can get on the next one with a seat for his dog. At no time should they have questioned him about his service animal beyond what they are legally allowed to ask. Period.

Actually, there are different regulations for medical service animals and emotional support/psychiatric service animals.

His dog was not a medical service animal and therefor the regulations he was trying to use did not apply to his situation.

Emotional support or psychiatric service animals
To travel with an emotional support or psychiatric service animal in the cabin you must provide supporting documentation dated within 1 year of your scheduled flight. It must be from a licensed mental health professional or a medical doctor and state:

That you have a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition (DSM IV)
That you need the emotional support or psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at your destination
That the individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional or medical doctor, and you are under his or her professional care
The date and type of the mental health professional or medical doctor's license and the state or other jurisdiction where it was issued

If it was a medical service animal with the appropriate medical tags, he would have been fine.

From the ADA

Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA.

While Emotional Support Animals or Comfort Animals are often used as part of a medical treatment plan as therapy animals, they are not considered service animals under the ADA. These support animals provide companionship, relieve loneliness, and sometimes help with depression, anxiety, and certain phobias, but do not have special training to perform tasks that assist people with disabilities.

Emotional support and psychiatric service animals – Individuals who travel with emotional support animals or psychiatric service animals may need to provide specific documentation to establish that they have a disability and the reason the animal must travel with them. Individuals who wish to travel with their emotional support or psychiatric animals should contact the airline ahead of time to find out what kind of documentation is required.

Examples of documentation that may be requested by the airline: Current documentation (not more than one year old) on letterhead from a licensed mental health professional stating (1) the passenger has a mental health-related disability listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV); (2) having the animal accompany the passenger is necessary to the passenger’s mental health or treatment; (3) the individual providing the assessment of the passenger is a licensed mental health professional and the passenger is under his or her professional care; and (4) the date and type of the mental health professional’s license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued.16 This documentation may be required as a condition of permitting the animal to accompany the passenger in the cabin.

It is not illegal to question the validity of a service dog, only illegal to ask 'what is your disability of a person.' And according to both the ADA and the airlines, he was obligated to provide the documentation due to the nature of his service dog not being a medical service dog.

The thing is... it does not sound like this dog was a legal, registered medical service animal under the law.

**Kilkrazy**

I can't remember ever seeing someone with a dog on a plane, possibly because I only fly internationally when it probably is much less common. (The UK is too small to need many domestic flights.)

I am quite surprised that safety regulations would allow even small dogs to be in the cabin unsecured. In the event of a crash they would be flying all over the place and be a danger to themselves and passengers.

The dog in this case obviously is far too large to fit under a seat or in an overhead locker.

**Frazzled**

Come on, he's just a big fluffy lap dog. Aren't you boy yes you are yes you are!

**yellowfever**

Not to derail the thread but do they refer to him as captain. It says he is a former marine not current. I don't tell people I'm Sgt wilson anymore.

And that dog looks just like my dog. My dog would need his own seat. He's about 110 pounds.

**Noir**

Fun fact you get money if you are kicked from a flight and it takes more then a hour to get the next flight. The amount the airline pays you goes up the longer you wait. But, you must tell them and demand you fee as none will point out they have to pay you, and yes you can demand cash. My last fight was basical free, just glad I always travel a day early.

Now back to the thread.

**Grey Templar**

yellowfever wrote:
Not to derail the thread but do they refer to him as captain. It says he is a former marine not current. I don't tell people I'm Sgt wilson anymore.

I know a lot of ex-military still get referred to by their rank even after discharge. Especially by other military personnel. Its sort of a sign of respect.

**Compel**

American Airlines aren't doing too well this week it seems. They were apparently not too helpful in this situation either.

**Orlanth**

We love Frazzie. Every time there is a thread that mentions dogs his sanity take a nose dive.

Frazzled wrote:

From the article they did call ahead and was booked on no problem with said doggie. Doggie can kick it in kitchen area. He'd love that.

Doge says: doge...so much drama...not enough treats.

Frazzled wrote:
The article doesn't say that actually.
I'd imagine there are actual rules about such things and that they were followed.

Particularly interesting as the dog was flying to receive a service award. Dog say: I'll take that in steak!

"Your dog just lost a fight with a chair"
-trainer about Rodney

"That dog deserves steak EVERY day."
-same about TBone El Magnifico

Frazzled wrote:
Come on, he's just a big fluffy lap dog. Aren't you boy yes you are yes you are!

**hotsauceman1**

It looks like the Airline.........
Screwed the pooch.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Compel wrote:
American Airlines aren't doing too well this week it seems. They were apparently not too helpful in this situation either.

This same airline was involved in a bit of a SNAFU with a professional banjo player the same week as this pup as well..

I've never really had any problems with AA... but I've never had very good experiences either, if that makes sense.

**Relapse**

nkelsch wrote:
But if the plane was full, where was the service dog supposed to go? I have been on many flights where people bring larger dogs and larger children on, did not get a seat for them and then there is literally no where to put them on the plane. I have seen people try to carry 4 year olds on as if they were infants to avoid buying a ticket. I have seen people bring large dogs on as if they were carry-ons. Considering I have been bitten by a dog and baby pooped dropped on me on air planes due to there simply being zero room for them, I as a passenger on those planes want them to have their own seats. Seats for dogs, seats for babies. I don't care if the people have to pay for it or the air line needs to give free seats away, but on a full plane, it is not reasonable to allow someone to sit with a dog/baby on their lap the entire flight.

If the plane was full, where was this dog supposed to go?

Sounds like they need to allow people to get a free 'seat' allocated for service animals at the time of booking.

You apparently missed the part of the story where he was being interrogated and bullied.

**d-usa**

So the flight was full and there wasn't room for the dog, and it looks like he actually has to provide documentation based on the type of service animal it actually is?

And what does him being a veteran have anything to do with any of this?

**Ghazkuul**

Has anyone ever had a really good experience with an airline? I literally am thinking about it right now and I can not for the life of me think of a single plane ride I ever had to take where afterwards I felt "yeah glad I didn't just drive".

Yeah obviously if driving is out of the question then you can insert "take a boat" lol.

I remember when my Wife graduated from Boot Camp I was stationed in Cory Station in Pensacola Florida. I requested leave to watch her graduate and bought a ticket through Delta. After arriving at the Airport 2 hours early I wasn't able to board an airplane for 4 hours AFTER my flight was supposed to have departed. Why? apparently the engine caught fire and they grounded it. I spent the next 2 days attempting to fly from North Florida to Southern New Jersey....I literally could have rented a car and driven there significantly quicker. Instead my plane landed in Philadelphia, (wrong airport) and I missed her entire graduation by 2 hours because Delta sucked that hard.

**hotsauceman1**

I'm sure they planned for the engine fire.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Ghazkuul wrote:
Has anyone ever had a really good experience with an airline?

Yup....

Air Canada

**Ghazkuul**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I'm sure they planned for the engine fire.

actually that was why I was so mad, they didn't plan for anything. There was no backups at all, and even when I complained to the Airline after the fact they basically said something along the lines of "We got you there so we aren't giving you your money back".

This reminded me strongly of the South Park episode where mr. garrison develops a new form of transportation that inserts devices into your butt, mouth and both hands....that look suspiciously like male sex organs. And the joke was "Still better then flying" and I am forced to agree

**Chongara**

I've never had a problem on a flight, beyond it being awkward to sit in the same seat for 8 hours straight.