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I own a CSM force and will be gaming with two guys (first time with them) playing at 500 pts. One has Necrons, another Tau.
At low points, what should I bring? I don't want to tailor but I know these armies outweigh my chaos.
I have Crimson Slaghter as well as the CSM Dec

Thanks!

Bring a cup to collect your tears with...

Honestly though I can't speak much for Necron counters, but for Tau you're just going to hope to get into CC. At 500 points he won't be fielding too many big nasties to deal with, likely Devilfish and maybe a Hammerhead or Broadsides. Tons of ranged, use your LOS terrain. If you can smash into the Tau with a Juggerlord (Str. 7 AP2 on the charge CC attacks, potentially 14 attacks with Daemon weapon rolls) you can rip through any unit he can field at that cost.

People keep saying Necrons lack CC, but my trouble is their universal LD10. It's hard to break and sweep their squads, unless you can whittle down a few bodies before committing to CC.

Edit: Forgot to ask, what sort of unit options do you have available? Other than the dexes?

obliterators
cultist
spawn
lord on bike/steed

that should just about handle it all, maybe a helldrake to make sure

 clamclaw wrote:
.

Edit: Forgot to ask, what sort of unit options do you have available? Other than the dexes?

I run mostly Nurgle theme but I have pretty much every infantry model and spawn. I do lack vehicals and only have three bikes, one of which i plan on converting into a Lord. I'm thinking a min squad of Slaanesh marines with a blastmaster.


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Don't really want to run a deathstar with min troops ifI can help it


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Also, do not have a hugger Lord, though he is next on my list

Perhaps raptors? Min squad to get in cc to tie up stuff while the rest moves up for next turn charge.

Spawn as well.

That is, vs tau, since they suck in cc.

At that point lvl, you could move a squad of cultist in front of your army as shield as well, since it will obscure models and give cover.


If you move two squads of cultists up midfield, and flank with raptors and spawns.
Then you could have some marines or chosen with plasma behind cultists, for that close combat assault after the other stuff has taken the snapshots.

Take khorne cultists, and if he ignores them, its four attacks each on the charge, wich is alot of dice in his face.

Sorcerer
Cultists
Cultists
Heldrake
Heldrake

Fight the cheese with cheese!

id say take a sorcerer for sure. Both armies lack psykers, and with a 15pt spell familiar, you can dance all over the psychic phase and there is very little they can do against it. Oh, and they're cheap, also key at 500pts

Heldrakes at 500 is not very nice, but a lot of units get unbalanced at lower point levels. Also that's a lot of points that might not come in on turn 2.

I like cultists to fill your troops; what are you options heavier ranged weapons? (Oblits, havocs etc)

sasquatchalex wrote:


I like cultists to fill your troops; what are you options heavier ranged weapons? (Oblits, havocs etc)

I have some oblits, 4 autocannon havoks, and two blastmasters


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Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Perhaps raptors? Min squad to get in cc to tie up stuff while the rest moves up for next turn charge.

If you move two squads of cultists up midfield, and flank with raptors and spawns.
Then you could have some marines or chosen with plasma behind cultists, for that close combat assault after the other stuff has taken the snapshots.

Take khorne cultists, and if he ignores them, its four attacks each on the charge, wich is alot of dice in his face.

Maybe Slaanesh Sorcerer to run with some Noise Marines behind the Cultists. Raptors and spawn to flank? I'll have to work out the points later today


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Intercessor wrote:
Sorcerer
Cultists
Cultists
Heldrake
Heldrake

Fight the cheese with cheese!

You should bring a cup for all of your tears.

Honestly, best thing you can do is probably Oblits and a Heldrake. not much else you have that'll do well against them. Maybe Plague Marines? But they're expensive.

A Sorcerer with psychic shriek is going to be nasty against the Tau. Their low leadership will allow you to pick apart units that you may not normally be able to (broadsides come to mind with their saves). As an added bonus, invisibility is on the same tree as psychic shriek so you could accidentally roll for that which will be unbelievably great in a 500 point game. The rest of the list should have enough wounds to handle the Tau shooting phase (cultists) and have good mobility (deep striking Obliteraters).

Against the Necrons, you can succeed with the same list build, but due to the high leadership of the Necron, you probably won't get as much mileage out of psychic shriek. So I would personally roll on Biomancy and hope for iron arm or endurance. Both with add some much needed durability to help out last the Necron. At 500 points, there just isn't enough heavy weapons you can bring to bear against them to lower their RP enough.

Sorcerers are great and likely be more than enough to ruin tau day in CC.

Spawn are ALWAYS a great, cheap option. Especially if you can infiltrate them. They will kill tau shooty, or absorb a lot of shots. 4+ cover is easy to get with them and 12" movement can threaten alot.

I would run min squads of cultists to camp back field obj. Though you certainly can run them in 20 man squads as cheap CC threats, this usually works best when fearless from a lord.

If he brings a riptide at 500pts you could be in trouble, though again this is why I advocate sorcerer with force axe(on a bike) pay for the ML3 and spell familiar run him with a fast squad (say spawn or raptors)

You won't be out shooting either army, so play to the CC strengths and look at your own shooting as a way to soften them up for CC

Not sure of exact points but you could go khorne daemonkin with something like:

juggerlord with axe of korlath (or maybe on bike for cheaper)

cultists

cultists

hounds

heldrake

spawn


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could even put lord with a jetpack - send him in to die as fast as possible to turn into bloodthirster


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You could do a KDK slaughtercult for fun - the +1 blood point each turn might actually work - plus losing units and winning (or losing) in challenges could boost you enough points to make up your losses with summoning:

Herald

8 bloodletters with bloodreaper
8 bloodletters with bloodreaper

5 possessed

war engine - helbrute

On the outset it looks like a list made of poor units (cause it is) but the blood tithe table might actually make up for it - you get 1 automatically per turn and there is opportunity to get 8 more through just losses and challenges (more if you kill opponents units)

SirSweetroll wrote:

sasquatchalex wrote:


I like cultists to fill your troops; what are you options heavier ranged weapons? (Oblits, havocs etc)

I have some oblits, 4 autocannon havoks, and two blastmasters


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Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Perhaps raptors? Min squad to get in cc to tie up stuff while the rest moves up for next turn charge.

If you move two squads of cultists up midfield, and flank with raptors and spawns.
Then you could have some marines or chosen with plasma behind cultists, for that close combat assault after the other stuff has taken the snapshots.

Take khorne cultists, and if he ignores them, its four attacks each on the charge, wich is alot of dice in his face.

Maybe Slaanesh Sorcerer to run with some Noise Marines behind the Cultists. Raptors and spawn to flank? I'll have to work out the points later today


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Intercessor wrote:
Sorcerer
Cultists
Cultists
Heldrake
Heldrake

Fight the cheese with cheese!

Yes i think a sorceror is a good idea, perhaps even two.
Noisemarines or mark of slaanesh marines seems good, i dont know the stats of tau stuff, but if you have higher initiative, you are going to loose very little models in cc.

Vs tau, it could be cool to just run single spawns up and chase them off with fear..
I think a firewarrior is strength 3 so would need 6 to wound a no marked spawn.

Nurgle bikes are not a bad idea. Toss one a power fist to jack up necron reanimation saves and ID any suits that tau have.

Nurgle lord on bike
Cultists
Cultists
Heldrake
Heldrake

Sorcerer
-ML2
-Spell Familiar
-Demonic Horns

Cultists
23 Cultists

Noise Marines
-Blast Master

Nurgle Spawn
Nurgle Spawn
Nurgle Spawn

10 Cultists hang back, sorc joins 23 and charges with noise marines dropping pie and spawn flanking.
------------------
Lord
-MoN
-PowerAxe
-Slaghterers Horns

Sorcerer
- Spell Familiar
-ML2

Plague Marines
-two plasmas
16 Cultists

Nurgle Spawn
Nurgle Spawn

Lord Joins Cultist to charge behind spawn, sorc goes with plagues
---------------
Sorcerer
- Spell Familiar
-ML2

Cultists
Cultists

Plasmacide Terminators

Nurgle Spawn
Nurgle Spawn
Nurgle Spawn

Obliterator

Sorcerer joins Cultists, other cultists hang back, spawn charge, oblit and terminator drop
-------------
--------------

I have a bike model but I'm trying to avoid straight generic deathstar. Too many points in one unit

These are my current thoughts

Looks good all three. Just remember if cultists are all they see, then they all fire at them, and they die fast.

Suddenly 20 shots kill 15 in one round, and thats only one unit firing.

So cover saves for your spawn, but keep them visible, 20 shots may kill one spawn, or even none, but better than all your cultists.

Anyways, dead cultists are better than dead marines.

Im excited about the sorc, they are often very effective at smaller games.

You know what has brought great succes to my tables against both of these armies? Forgefiends.

Their Str8 AP4 is good against Necrons because it doubles out their toughness (makes RP worse) and denies their basic infantry's save.

Against Tau, it's good against missileside units because it can stay out of their range and a Riptide can't crack it that easily.

I agree on the forgefiend.
I have played a lot of 800pts games with it and it has never let me down, both with ectoplasmaguns and autocannons.

Not related, but forgefiend is exellent vs deepstriking terminators when you use the triple ectoplasma.
Deepstriking units are all bunched up so a direct hit really puts on the hurt.

The autocannons are very good vs transports and light vehichles.
The pinning rule on the autocannon really makes it so the unit hit, if they fail a leadership test, can only fire snapshots and can not move.
This is exellent vs tau with their low leadership.

Forgefiends can be a powerhouse, no doubt. But they are pretty overpriced. 175pts is pretty steep for 8 shots at BS3, you will reliably get 4 shots off per turn, wound with 2 to 3 and have to deal with armor saves against anything 3+ or better. Ectoplasmas can dominate heavy infantry, but with 24" range the poor forgefiend often gets shot off the table before it can retaliate.

This is coming from someone who spent ages painting and converting thier forgefiend... I love the model but can't often justify the points sink. Normally proxy it as a Maulerfiend instead.

Forgrfiends are actually pretty good. All things considered, that's alot of (str 8?) Shots at a long range. Maulerfiends are def. Better suited to assualty lists(never take less than 2) but I've seen some CSM shooty lists do fairly well considering.

It's marine shooting minus the real perks, but still effective unless facing too tierz which then CSM are gonna be grasping straws at best.

 clamclaw wrote:
Forgefiends can be a powerhouse, no doubt. But they are pretty overpriced. 175pts is pretty steep for 8 shots at BS3, you will reliably get 4 shots off per turn, wound with 2 to 3 and have to deal with armor saves against anything 3+ or better. Ectoplasmas can dominate heavy infantry, but with 24" range the poor forgefiend often gets shot off the table before it can retaliate.

This is coming from someone who spent ages painting and converting thier forgefiend... I love the model but can't often justify the points sink. Normally proxy it as a Maulerfiend instead.

It isnt necessarily the amount of wounds that is the best thing about the hades autocannons, it is the pinning rule it has that makes it so good.
And i am talking about low point games, where there arent that much strong AV on the board.

If you put even only one unsaved wound or HP on the enemy, they can not move the next round, and can only fire snapshots, if they fail a toughness test.

That stops the advancing of anything coming at you, or imagine a big shooting unit having to fire snapshots, thats a win.

I can not speak about high point games, because i have little experience there, but people say it dies quickly.
It has the it will not die to help, if it does not die in one round.
Also the daemonforge is easy to forget about, but it gives reroll to wound/penetrate one round.
And it saves 1/3 wounds on its inv 5+